Forum Post: History repeats
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 18, 2011, 9:49 p.m. EST by PeterDocherty
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Stand strong Brothers and sisters. You will change the system! Remember the peasants revolt of 1381. They were duped into submission by the forteen year old King Richard II. He then told them "You wreched men, who seek equality with lords are not worthy to live. Serfs you were and serfs you shall remain. You will remain in bondage not as before but incomparably harsher. we will strive to suppress you so that the rigor of your servitude will be an example to posterity." Don't let the barstards grind you down.
I don't know about history, but historians definitely repeat themselves
Bravo! It a Truth! But! Nardialog (True Democrasy and the official voice of every citizen). That was not in world history - never.
Amen!! Here's my 2 cents: For decades now the corporations and special interests have had our "representatives" bought and paid for (both on the right and the left). Don't get distracted by the symptoms - we need to address the root cause. Concentrating our efforts on getting the money out of our politics is the best way we can create an environment in which further reforms can be realized. Until we end the current system of legalized bribery (campaign donations) and paid lobbying our politicians will continue to be the LAP DOGS of the corporations and special interests. What we need first and foremost is real, loop-hole free CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM!!!! If the corruption is not dealt with first, the chance of any other meaningful reforms becoming a reality is almost zero - the special interests will just use their money to buy votes and put forward bills that create loop-holes or otherwise twist the law in their favor. If we want our children to live in a country where there vote matters, we need to get the money out of our politics, otherwise they will increasingly become the 21st century version of the "landless peasant." Spread the word - End the LEGALIZED BRIBERY!!! CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM needs to be THE main goal of the protests!!!
1381? You couldn't find a more recent example?
More recent? Hmmm, our Revolution, the French Revolution, the Civil War, Women's Suffrage. Civil Rights Movement.......Do we have to keep finding examples, or can we work on the solution?
Why does it always end in violence?
People that hold power rarely just roll over when you try to take it back
The French revolution killed more innocents than "rich and powerful"; and resulted in a military dictatorship.
I am in the US because my ancestors were part of the priveleged few and narrowly missed losing their heads when they hopped on the boat.
Wars always kill innocents they are the first victims and the easiest prey. I am glad that we are at a point where we have the tools to maintain an abstinence of violence so that kind of atrocity will not be an automatic result of social change.
" I am glad that we are at a point where we have the tools to maintain an abstinence of violence"
Good luck with that.
Lol I am a hopeless optimist
what do you think of the 99% Declaration approach? https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
Looks like another dude with a website that's going to go shoot someone.
We have been pushed to the point where we are no longer asking for change, we are demanding it. I don't know the person you refer to, but staunch support should not automatically indicate that people will go exact random acts of violence on one another.
Hmmm.. no. They are usually not random, they are usually very specific, planned and targeted.
They are also individuals usually with some mental deficit prior. There will always be those extremes in society, but they do not represent the majority and are the exception. Again, too, staunch support should not immediately bring a bell tower scenario to mind.
Yeah, I agree. And this website is a bit of an extreme, don't you think? It certainly doesn't represent a majority of opinion. It looks like some kind of hybrid between communism and the tea party. Even quotes like this "We have been pushed to the point where we are no longer asking for change, we are demanding it..." are pretty extreme, don't you think? Who is pushing you? Sounds like you are hanging out at the edge of the cliff, waiting for a nudge.
Only the edge of social and political change. And I honestly don't believe that tdemanding change is an extreme. I did ask, for a long time, with my vote, my time, letters written and petitions signed. Asking didn't work. Historically asking doesn't work. The colonists asked first, as did slaves, women wanting to vote, Native Americans begged and pleaded, even the Civil Rights movement started with requests instead of demands. Eventually it comes down to each individuals fortitude towards standing up for what they believe instead of being happy with how things were.
But is this really what you want? Are you so unhappy that you want to take down the social order in an attempt to rebuild in? You must realize that only the extreme ever brings about quick change, otherwise it's a slow and painful process. But that again, even if you are willing to revolt and toss out the Government, how many decades of civil unrest and potentially civil war are you will to go through? Are you ready for a world where your day-to-day supplies are no longer shipped into your community?
You must see that a lot of immigrants come to North America, work hard and never complain. Aren't we just being a little selfish, demanding more when we already have the most?
Personally, I don't think this has anything to do with change. I think people just crave disorder and need an excuse to engage that feeling. Everyone's buying their preparations for the end of the world, and the less likely that event becomes, the more willing they are to cause it themselves.
The honest approach is not overthrowing the system, but taking it back to what it is supposed to be, what the foundational documents provided for it to be. I don't want to take down the 'social order' and rebuild it. Society and government are two distinctly entities. How is the majority taking back the government and eradicating (or at least trying to which is more than we have gotten so far) corruption by stemming the flow of corporate buy offs in exchange for tax breaks, bailouts and taxpayer money. You pay taxes....are't you tired of how they are used and how much you pay?
Demanding a better world is not selfish, it is altruistic. How much am I personally willing to suffer? How long will it take to make the kind of changes that are necessary to bring manufacturing jobs home, take the federal spending level to something SMALLER than our GDP, oust politicians that don't listen to their constituents, and be more responsible about our interaction with the rest of the world? That is how long I am willing to suffer. What about you? Are you willing to suffer in order to make the world better? I was already suffering before they put the tents up, and I really think that there are a lot of people are just as aggrieved as I am.
Yes, but the founding father's creating a system based on low population, low land value and division of the states. They did not expect the population to reach 330,000 million. They also didn't expect none-European immigrants to bring in other religions, creeds or social values.
The reason why your manufacturing jobs are leaving is simple. The rest of the world is willing to work for less. My idea of suffering is working very hard and competitively. If I don't work hard, there is a good (realistically) chance my job could be sent to India. What can I do about that? Is it fair that US companies lay off thousands of Chinese and Indian employees, than hire US employees for triple the wages, plus benefits and medical coverage (which the China have nationalized), and put up with their unwillingness to work more than 35 hours a week?
Regardless of population size, the founding priciples are broad enough to encompas them.. The Bible is much older than the constitution, but it doesn't mean we have come so far that murder being wrong is outdated.
Further it is perfectly fair that workers in India and China are laid off so that the people in our country that were the original layoffs get their jobs back. Just ask someone whose job left their community and set up shop in India. You ask what you can do to secure the future of your job in THIS country? Stand with us against this corporation controlled corruption in our government. Check out the 99% Declaration. It will show you that there is another way to do this, and in the process make it more equitable for everyone that works for these companies. Either the positive changes here causing a ripple effect, or other people seeing us striving for change and achieving it.
I'm 50/50 on the 99%. As much as I'd like to see change, the more I watch the Occupy movement grow, the more I see it becoming more of the same.
I see the Occupy movement as the starting point. I think that it is reaching kind off a critical mass where organization is inevitable. Short of going the way of Mexican drug cartels, I see little option in that. OWS is the society side of this. That one thing that started unifying the discontent. Government is a necessary evil of society, thus it is a reasonable expectation that at some point a form of organzation is inevitable. I think this is already starting, OWS seems to be the squeaky wheel indicating larger problems.
I signed up as a potential delegate.
Cool! Here's a comment i received. It really makes me think. I understand what he's saying, and i understand many people have questions about the List, so i'll paste it here for your consideration and i look forward to hearing your thoughts:
[-] theghostofthomasjefferson 3 points 1 week ago No, I wrote the Declaration of Desperation. I believe the 99% Declaration is an ineffective document. The Occupy Movement will fail if it is adopted. For it will alienate the American People.
This is not a question of politics, of right or wrong. This is a question of intelligence. We must be smart. We enjoy popular support, for now. But to preserve America's good will, we must keep our demands narrow: end the corrupting influence of money in politics. That is something a majority of Americans can get behind. That is something a social movement can achieve. And then, and only then, can the other issues be successfully pursued.
NGA NOW all roads lead to Philadelphia
I think of it as something born out of the Occupy movement. To me the Occupy movement is our neon sign that change is both needed and is happening right now. The Occupy movement should focus on those issues that brought them out. I think that the 99% Declaration fully supports those causes. It also broadens the scope so that it is reaching for greater change than just ending the "corrupting influence of mone in politics". It begins to provide a framework from which we can use our country's most important tools to rebuild our country in the image of a true, free democracy. The founding principals were not flawed, our first attempt at putting them to practice has. The ingeniusness is they system was specifically designed to provide us the oportunity to correct our own course. We are NOT stuck in a perpetual loop of choosing the lesser evil. We just have to stand up and take back the power that was ours to begin with.
Well said. Ghosts comment is heart-felt and valid and that's what makes Philly so exciting. I can see the discussions going on around every kitchen table, shop floor, and water cooler.
It's late so i'll leave you with this. Have you seen this Video by Makana? I got shivers down my spine when he said "So take heed of our notice to redress " so far they aren't, which builds the solid case for 99 party.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq3BYw4xjxE&NR=1
Soon, AFTK
I will head there in a moment. If you are interested in finding out more of my views you can follow my blog on www.citicommons.com (contributor 'Midwestern War Child') or at blogger http://midwesternwarchild.blogger.com.
All that was and everything that happens today - also fits into this analogy. All wars, revolutions, and even today's elections.
My God. You people really need to lay of the History Channel while being stoned. The United States is not a monarchy and OWS people are far from being peasants.
I call on all to form a direct Action Committee and to go underground with it...............................
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
Yes, and if you followed your own advice, you would realize your way has been tried before.