Forum Post: Hey Protesters! What have YOU done for our country???
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 16, 2011, 8:04 a.m. EST by Chicagobizowner
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Anyone who is for the Occupy Wall Street movement has not read Atlas Shrugged.
I’d love for those folks to take a gander at the list of the richest 400 people in America. In this list you will find the people who are actually contributing to the greater good of this world. These are geniuses, innovators, trailblazers and masterminds who can’t sleep at night without thoughts swirling about how to make things better for YOU. Without these people you wouldn’t have your iPhone or Android or any other cell phone. You wouldn’t have your Microsoft products or the laptops in which you use them. You wouldn’t have the clothing stores in which you shop or the food that you eat multiple times a day, nor would you have a grocery store to buy food. You wouldn’t be able to go to the high rise building that you work because it wouldn’t have been built without the powerful minds or deep pockets of those on that list. You couldn’t drive your car without paying a shitload more money for gas if we didn’t have the few American oilers that are left. For those who love their American cars, say good bye to them. You couldn’t go to Home Depot to do-it-yourself. You couldn’t watch TV without that satellite or cable service. And movies? Say goodbye to your 3D movies, Pixar and anything else you’d see at a movie theater. You couldn’t buy those Groupons. Say goodbye to your Starbucks. All of you making money on Ebay, find another way to hock your crap but don’t try to go to Yahoo or Google because they will be gone, too. Don’t try to turn to a newspaper for your current events because those will disappear. You wouldn’t have that favorite sports team to root for or enjoy any of your favorite snacks or beer at the stadium that wouldn’t be there. That trial drug your Uncle is on to cure his incurable disease? Say goodbye to that because the company that produces it will go away. Forget travel because the hotels, rental car companies and websites in which you book travel would be gone You will no longer be able to heat your house with gas so hopefully you have an ax and a few trees close by and are actually willing to roll up your sleeves to chop them down.
The people on this list are making our world and our country a better place. Anyone who has a problem with the amount of their wealth should immediately stop using any and all of the products in which they’ve imagined, created or improved upon. How many of those protestors also mourned the loss of Steve Jobs? Ironic, much? I think he'd roll over in his grave before making any apologies for his contributions to this world. I would love to see what these protesters would do if and when these pioneers picked up and moved and took their innovations, inventions, technology and products with them. Be careful what you wish for, that’s all I have to say.
The internet was a U.S. Department of Defense creation. The invention and development of microprocessors was - again - largely funded by the United States government. Most medical research is funded by the U.S. government and conducted either by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) or directly funded by NIH. The U.S. space program [the basis for the satellite revolution] was - you guessed it - funded by the U.S. government.
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Most of your innovators rode the wave of U.S. government invention, funding, and development (as illustrated above). The Ayn Rand worshippers always seem to overlook these "inconvenient" facts.
Government has a role, and so does private industry. We should not be forced to choose between one or the other.
Exactly. Ayn Rand is not the answer with her misguided philosophy. I think it's our responsibility, as a society, to take care of one another not just be out for ourselves. We should look out for the most vulnerable people rather than run them over as the Rand worshipers would have us do. Down with her philosophy...
Three years 101 airborne 503 airborne inf reg 7 years 157 heavey mech inf brigade taught sunday school Raised 2 sons put 1 thru collage at present volenteer to worrk with handicap. What Have you done SON.
Served 4 yrs in the Marine Corps 93-97. Started a successful business 4 years ago without asking for a dime from a bank to start and have benn in the black since day 1. My business helps manufacturers grow their sales and marketing teams, so YES, I help people find jobs. I don't have a college degree, I gained my skills with hard work and tenacity. I have a 22 month old son whose college is already saved for and I will say the same about the baby I am carrying.
Sorry, not your SON.
Sales and marketing? What a joke, you call that working for a living? You try to figure out ways to help companies screw people out of their money. You are a parasite and contribute nothing worthwhile to the world, conversely you work to make the world a worse place. You should be ashamed of yourself but I am sure you are proud to be full of shit, a greedy self-important prick.
Best of luck in life to you.God bless you and yours!
Shocker, Ayn Rand Railed Against Government Benefits, But Grabbed Social Security and Medicare When She Needed Them.
Everything she stood for came crashing down the moment she became sick. boohoo. Ayn Rand..newsflash..is not that big except in conservative circles. That's not saying a whole lot. I, who are not an economist, could easily break up her theories in a few minutes.
Hey friend .. hope I can qualify to answer as a vietnam combat vet who read and appreciated Rand in 1968 .. perhaps think that its not about whether good things have been produced by corporations, its about they haven't paid a fair share of taxes and they used their money to control politicians who served their personal greed rather than use the right amount of the taxes to prevent poverty and hunger even here in the richest nation on earth - Rand was against not forcing people to be altruistic, not against people being altruistic. Also it isn't necessary to an American or what you think of as a patriot to help humanity
Veteran US Navy.
Ayn Rand was a chain smoking, odoriferous, amphetamine junkie who, before her death, benefited from the very gov't programs she derided.
I've been involved in a couple of successful startups (not as a cofounder-but as a consultant including a founding consultant). Whenever to use your credit card, there is a about an 80% chance your transaction runs through a system on which I helped with the early database integration.
I've also helped put a Fortune 500 CEO in prison-specifically Bill Griffin of Riscorp. I was the DBA for a team of auditors that convinced him to plead guilty.
We had a lot of innovation at times when we didn't have increasing concentration of wealth. In fact, startups are generally more successful if they tend to even out the rewards. Demmings the management Guru has written a bit on this.
The thing is, there is a difference between innovators and fraud artists. America loves innovators-so a lot of fraud artists pose as innovators.
If we contain future concentration of wealth in the US, you will still see a lot of potential for innovation. The real key here IMHO is to leave folks alone more when they are getting started. We need lower taxes on incomes under $100K. We need less paperwork that stifles small companies.
The thing is: much of the high end wealth is really dead wealth. Those folks are largely doing stuff like investing in hedge funds and T-Bills. Correctly structures, high end taxes could force those folks to tax more risks.
What I personally advocate is Nader's suggestion: remove all taxes on incomes under $100K substitute taxes on assets over $5 Million-say 2% per year
adjust these taxes so the folks with over $1 Million in assets don't have a windfall because of the tax change.
You'll still see innovation. The thing is: it will force folks that want to run a larger company to spread stock around for-and prove they can negotiate with a team of folks that have the money to leave when they want. The thing is: most real innovation happens outside slavery conditions.
The world is not an ayn rand novel. Rand was a cultist that made her living making really rich people feel really good about themselves. There are some REALLY sick people among the very rich. A lot of folks that lied their way to the top. We can't afford that sort of stuff anymore.
Good suggestions, all. And I would refer the original poster to the thread that asks if the protestors are anti-capitalist and see the well-thought-out responses before painting the entire movement with a convenient brush of dismissal. Not one of them are saying we should punish innovators, or business owners shouldn't get compensated for their work. Not that everyone should do this, but remember that Steve Jobs' salary was $1. He made his money through stock in Apple, so his performance was completely tied to his earnings. There might be something in that...
Steve Jobs is not a poster child for innovation. Seriously. The guy was a rather nutty control freak. He lied to virtually every friend he had in the course of founding apple. Watch pirates of silicon Valley-one of the scene shows Wozniak remembering Job 'forgot' to include someone in founders stock. I actually know who that was-and it was true.
Jobs had no really old friends-be abused them all. I never really spoke to Jobs-but I did get to observe him first hand a few times-and i knew people well that knew jobs very well(before and after he got money).
A lot of what Apple became famous for was developed other places-like Xerox parc.
What I will say: jobs had the ability to assure a team pulled in the same direction-but it came at a very high price.
I've been involved in this stuff a while. Search for rburns here(one of the founding discussions of linux) and you will see my name. oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/appa.html
Innovation generally happens outside of slave societies. I honestly think we'd get more innovation with a more even wealth structure in the US. The key is getting more people in a position they don't have to take orders from someone else-which happens when someone has a significant block of assets-say $500K or so. At that point, they can physically survive without working for someone else if they need to.
That is why my tax proposal is structure to lift taxes off low end folks. I'd ideally like to remove all low end taxes. I actually think we'd get more and better innovation that way.
The original Apple OS was a copy of something developed at Xerox. Everyone has forgotten that.
Actually it was the Macintosh OS. Xerox parc had something similar working-but their management lacked the vision to see what it could do. Jobs' team figured out how to make it work in 128K-which meant it could be cheap-and added some polish. However, the old Xerox stuff arguably had a better engineering base to it. Jobs poached some employees from Xerox too.
Sorry to sidetrack the conversation by mentioning Steve Jobs. My point was that his salary had a direct relation to how the company performed. If these CEOs who drive companies into the ground and leave with a golden parachute made of the worker's pensions (as has happened in many instances, including to my Dad, so I have a particular axe to grind on that one) instead only received compensation if the company does well, there might be a different environment at the top. It would tie CEOs into making decisions to do what's best for the company in the long run, not just juggle some books and lay off a couple thousand people for short-term gains.
And a word about SJ: Yes, the OS was built at Xerox, but the CEOs had no idea what they had, and SJ saw it and was able to see it's worth. And he took that and transformed it from its rudimentary stage to a very advanced product that, as a UI specialist (and not to start any Mac/PC wars here) is incredibly usable to a population who aren't "computer people". Its not who does it first, its who does it best. As for his personal life and "friends", I see no relevance to the conversation. I'm not saying the man was a saint. Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now. :)
The relevance on Steve Job's friends: Steve Jobs committed acts that I personally conceive as fraud. He promised friends stock for working for him-and then conveniently "forgot" to deliver that stock when papers were being signed. Jobs was far too typical in that regard from what I've seen of other big money types. The degree of self serving lies among that crowd are just unacceptably high.
A really smart sociopath, is still a sociopath. And a really bright liar, is still a liar. Such folks may be more potentially dangerous than left gifted folks with similar failings.
From everything I've seen, the top 1% are more prone to self-serving lies than the bottom 99%. Are those the kinds of folks we really want in leadership positions?
Yes, those Chinese working conditions are part of a VERY long trend that existed from the start of Apple. I no longer own any apple products(though I have a 128K motherboard from the first run in storage someplace). I will freely admit, I got taken in by Jobs' reality distortion field early on-but I've since grown up.
And then there are the Chinese workers at Foxconn, who have to sign an agreement not to commit suicide in order to work there, and during peak iPad production averaged 120 hours of overtime a month for less than a living wage. Jobs refused to acknowledge or provide healthcare for other Chinese workers poisoned in his factories.
We understand why you are frighted. Change is unnerving. This must be very difficult for you. You and the others who are posting negative comments on this forum are feeling threatened and uncertain. We understand. These are anxious times.Try to consider this from the perspective of those on "the other side" and then remember, THERE IS NO OTHER SIDE. There is one country, under God.
This is a new leaderless movement, barely one month old. It is messy and confusing, as it should be. 951 cities joined the protest today. If this were not an authentic movement, this would not have happened.
We have never seen anything like this in the entire history of the planet. This movement is FAR bigger than the Forbes 400, the Tea Party, Rand, Brietbart, Dems, Repubs, Socialists, Communists, Klan, Muslims, Christians,...
THE PLANET HAS NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS!
Join us.
Most American conservatives take it as an article of faith that the less governmental involvement in affairs of the market and pocketbook the better. The rich do not, whatever they might say--for much of their wealth comes from the "power and preferment of government." So writes Kevin Phillips, the accomplished historian and one-time Washington insider, in the book 'Wealth and Democracy" an extraordinary survey of plutocracy, excess, and reform. "Laissez-faire is a pretense," he argues; as the wealth of the rich has grown, so has its control over government, making politics a hostage of money. Examining cycles of economic growth and decline from the founding days of the republic to the recent collapse of technology stocks, Phillips dispels notions of trickle-down wealth creation, pricks holes in speculative bubbles, and decries the ever-increasing "financialization" of the economy--all of which, he argues, have served to reduce the well-being of ordinary Americans and government alike. Highly readable for all its charts and graphs, Phillips's book offers a refreshing--and, of course, controversial--blend of economic history and social criticism. His conclusions won't please all readers, but just about everyone who comes to his pages will feel hackles rising. --Gregory McNamee
Without these people we couldn't jump in our cozy suv's and drive around senselessly polluting the environment in search for a frappacino that some kid slaved for in S.America, so we can get all jacked up and go to the mall to buy some junk we didn't need to help fill a hole in our souls that TV shows and marketing schemes are creating.
Than I couldn't go home and eat some GMO food that was produced by wiping out some small farms, and crack open a budweiser so I can soak the pain away.
Nobody here is anti-innovation, i hope. And a free-market is the only possibility. But caution has to be taken when you leave it up to the same people who messed it all up in the first place.
Buy Local and Organic.
Sir,
I love that you have made lots of money through hard work, smarts and perseverance. God bless you! This does not however give you more rights, or political privileges than anyone else! Period. Keep your money, have fun with it. However, the moment you try to use that money to control the political process and make your vote count more than someone else, we are going to stop you. There is absolutely no contradiction between radical democracy and radical free-enterprise. The father of Capitalism, Adam Smith knew this. Ayn Rand and her writings are fascist and neofeudalist masquerading as free enterprise. I will fight those regressive and oppressive ideas to my last breath.. you can count on it!
DEAR INDIVIDUAL READING THIS, What must we as people do to fight this grave injustice inflicted upon us, by the ones who lust for power? How can we end the reign of the wicked and immoral and mete JUSTICE upon the oppressors as we have suffered from their hands-their blood stained hands... An idea of REVOLUTION-no, the act of revolution enacted by the proletarians! Must we as individuals ,as is always done, remain pawns to these people, these monoliths that we alone as individuals cannot surmounted...I surmise that we are not ignorant to the woes inflicted upon us by their enormities? We must UNIFY! Unity will be the way in which we assert ourselves!...While I realize all are not are not without income or funds and many cannot unify with this growing movement do to reasons of possible opposition and they being the people I'm question who we oppose (Wall Street), and many have responsibility they must tend to that take precedence. We must rise and vanquish this behemothto restore the equilibrium, for when disturbed it causes much chaos and strife in the hearts of man( man being neutral to represent all genders) in his mind and when mans mind and soul are in chaos as many are they rise to vanquish the pestiferous wealthy. However we should not just target these individuals, each of us individually must confront the corruption in our hearts, how can we judge the corrupt and deem them so when we cannot be amenable for ourselves we will surely be deemed hypocrites as we will be.....I am not meaning to say that this protest is in any way unjust, for far too long have we suffered, I mean that we are expected to expiate our sins -assume our parts in the problems we face and how we may have caused it. Yes, the Bankers on Wall Street are corrupt in ways we don't have evidence of without an investigation. But as we suffer soshall they, for we will make it so. But what of our government I say, my fellow citizens do not neglect to Confront the complicit in this affair for the roots of corruption are deeply seated, we have silent enemies amongst us-be warned that although succession in our goals will happen we may face a greater threat to our rights granted unto us from birth be prudent and circumspect. Another issue I wish to address is the idea of mans continual corruption as all things will be permeated with this darkness Inside our hearts.......when a system is created it always deviates from the righteous path, for nations we have learnt of in our education are littered with tales of nations that became corrupt and faded Into the ruin of collapse, we know that a society without corruption is utterly inconceivable, impossible in ways each and everyone of us know...for as long as men exist so shall our inner evil....but I digress from my original Intent of this passage and I ask forgiveness as we must forgive all in all eventual....the rising potentiality of this movement is quite an astonishment, I thought we were not capable of such things and thus I admit I had less faith in my fellow man. I see that we have all come to the realization of the need to bring the greedy to justice, although the reasons for your protesting may be unique to you, you share many goal, I had prognostications, inklings seems more appropriate of a term, that one day man would wake to realize the greater truth outside of his/her reality, and break the cycles of obsession with superficial base needs and trite motives, a dull and predictable lot we were but we've surpassed that I hope....for if not we will founder and fall Into the patterns we had grown so accustomed to, living such prosaic pedestrian lives stultified by the elite and of our own ignorance we always have the means to educate ourselves in this age, we have no limits to what we may learn based on our status in society, the powerful can no longer succeed in keeping us stupefied we have freewill to reason and learn and form our own ideas, ideas that would otherwise have died by the hands of the bigots! Our endeavours shall be crowned with fruition of our goals for our will allows it, we have broken free from the will of the oppressors......as Desmond Tutu stated "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor." YOURS TRULY-Aaron Thomas Bridge
What have the protesters done for our country? Try exercising their right to protest and dissent. They're exercising their first Amendment rights and actually are being good citizens by watching out for their Democracy. I ask you. What have you done lately for your country? Not much from the looks of it. Oh,these great innovators you keep going on about. Maybe some of them. Maybe some of them stole their way to the top like those greedy hedge fund managers who keep winding up in jail for breaking the few laws we have left. So you know, Ayn Rand is not the answer. I've read Atlas Shrugged and a few other of her books. Selfish, misguided kook. That's what I think of Ayn Rand and her philosophy.
By the way, you aren't on the Forbes 400 list.
You are just an unpatriotic piece of trash that doesn't want to give anything back to your country.
Atlas Shrugged is a piece of trash.
Ayn Rand based all of her protagonists on a child-murderer named William Hickman that she worshiped.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Edward_Hickman
It's rather pathetic that we would think that we could not live without any of those things you mentioned. Those ' things' are just accessories that provide convenience to our human lives and don't meet real human needs. Noone of us would die if we lacked a computer, iphone, TV, or Home Depot. Without those things we might be forced to become more resourceful brainiacs and patient but we'd adjust and survive. The OWSers are campaigning for long term change that will affect the way we do politics, business/consumer relations, and the way we value humanity. Steve Jobs? I'm not impressed. I don't mean to be disrespectful in light of his death but there are thousands of guys just like him out there who haven't been so lucky as of yet. Jobs outsourced his manufacturing to one of the most abusive sweatshops in Asia where suicide rates were alarming due to stress and being overworked for pennies a day ( then gouged the heck out of his consumers for his trendy products) Did he care to know about this ahead of time? NO. He only pretended to care once it became public knowledge. Typical corporate CEO.
Obama, and nearly every other public figure. Economic growth, job creation, and actual prosperity are not necessarily a package deal. In fact, the first two are horribly misunderstood. Economic growth/loss (GDP) is little more than a measure of wealth changing hands. A transfer of currency from one party to another. The rate at which it is traded. This was up until mid '07' however, has never been a measure of actual prosperity. Neither has job creation. The phrase itself has been thrown around so often, and in such a generic political manner, that it has come to mean nothing. Of course, we need to have certain things done for the benefit of society as a whole. We need farmers, builders, manufacturers, transporters, teachers, cops, firefighters, soldiers, mechanics, sanitation workers, doctors, managers, and visionaries. Their work is vital. I'll even go out on a limb and say that we need politicians, attorneys, bankers, investors, and entertainers. In order to keep them productive, we must provide reasonable incentives. We need to compensate each by a fair measure for their actual contributions to society. We need to provide a reasonable scale of income opportunity for every independent adult, every provider, and share responsibility for those who have a legitimate need for aid. In order to achieve and sustain this, we must also address the cost of living and the distribution of wealth. Here, we have failed miserably. The majority have already lost their home equity, their financial security, and their relative buying power. The middle class have actually lost much of their ability to make ends meet, re-pay loans, pay taxes, and support their own economy. The lower class have gone nearly bankrupt. In all, its a multi-trillion dollar loss taken over about 30 years. Millions are under the impression that we need to create more jobs simply to provide more opportunity. as if that would solve the problem. It won't. Not by a longshot. Jobs don't necessarily create wealth. In fact, they almost never do. For the mostpart, they only transfer wealth from one party to another. A gain here. A loss there. Appreciation in one community. Depreciation in another. In order to create net wealth, you must harvest a new resource or make more efficient use of one. Either way you must have a reliable and ethical system in place to distribute that newly created wealth in order to benefit society as a whole and prevent a lagging downside. The 'free market' just doesn't cut it. Its a farce. Many of the jobs created are nothing but filler. The promises empty. Sure, unemployment reached an all-time low under Bush. GDP reached an all-time high. But those are both shallow and misleading indicators. In order to gauge actual prosperity, you must consider the economy in human terms. As of '08' the average American was working more hours than the previous generation with far less equity to show for it. Consumer debt, forclosure, and bankruptcy were also at all-time highs. As of '08', every major American city was riddled with depressed communities, neglected neighborhoods, failing infrastructures, lost revenue, and gang activity. All of this has coincided with massive economic growth and job production. Meanwhile, the rich have been getting richer and richer and richer even after taxes. Our nation's wealth has been concentrated. Again, this represents a multi-trillion dollar loss taken by the majority. Its an absolute deal breaker. Bottom line: With or without economic growth or job production, you must have a system in place to prevent too much wealth from being concentrated at the top. Unfortunately, we don't. Our economy has become nothing but a giant game of Monopoly. The richest one percent already own nearly 1/2 of all United States wealth. More than double their share before Reagan took office. Still, they want more. They absolutely will not stop. Now, our society as a whole is in serious jeapordy. Greed kills.
We have been mislead by Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr, Obama, and nearly every other public figure. Economic growth, job creation, and actual prosperity are not necessarily a package deal. In fact, the first two are horribly misunderstood. Economic growth/loss (GDP) is little more than a measure of wealth changing hands. A transfer of currency from one party to another. The rate at which it is traded. This was up until mid '07' however, has never been a measure of actual prosperity. Neither has job creation. The phrase itself has been thrown around so often, and in such a generic political manner, that it has come to mean nothing. Of course, we need to have certain things done for the benefit of society as a whole. We need farmers, builders, manufacturers, transporters, teachers, cops, firefighters, soldiers, mechanics, sanitation workers, doctors, managers, and visionaries. Their work is vital. I'll even go out on a limb and say that we need politicians, attorneys, bankers, investors, and entertainers. In order to keep them productive, we must provide reasonable incentives. We need to compensate each by a fair measure for their actual contributions to society. We need to provide a reasonable scale of income opportunity for every independent adult, every provider, and share responsibility for those who have a legitimate need for aid. In order to achieve and sustain this, we must also address the cost of living and the distribution of wealth. Here, we have failed miserably. The majority have already lost their home equity, their financial security, and their relative buying power. The middle class have actually lost much of their ability to make ends meet, re-pay loans, pay taxes, and support their own economy. The lower class have gone nearly bankrupt. In all, its a multi-trillion dollar loss taken over about 30 years. Millions are under the impression that we need to create more jobs simply to provide more opportunity. as if that would solve the problem. It won't. Not by a longshot. Jobs don't necessarily create wealth. In fact, they almost never do. For the mostpart, they only transfer wealth from one party to another. A gain here. A loss there. Appreciation in one community. Depreciation in another. In order to create net wealth, you must harvest a new resource or make more efficient use of one. Either way you must have a reliable and ethical system in place to distribute that newly created wealth in order to benefit society as a whole and prevent a lagging downside. The 'free market' just doesn't cut it. Its a farce. Many of the jobs created are nothing but filler. The promises empty. Sure, unemployment reached an all-time low under Bush. GDP reached an all-time high. But those are both shallow and misleading indicators. In order to gauge actual prosperity, you must consider the economy in human terms. As of '08' the average American was working more hours than the previous generation with far less equity to show for it. Consumer debt, forclosure, and bankruptcy were also at all-time highs. As of '08', every major American city was riddled with depressed communities, neglected neighborhoods, failing infrastructures, lost revenue, and gang activity. All of this has coincided with massive economic growth and job production. Meanwhile, the rich have been getting richer and richer and richer even after taxes. Our nation's wealth has been concentrated. Again, this represents a multi-trillion dollar loss taken by the majority. Its an absolute deal breaker. Bottom line: With or without economic growth or job production, you must have a system in place to prevent too much wealth from being concentrated at the top. Unfortunately, we don't. Our economy has become nothing but a giant game of Monopoly. The richest one percent already own nearly 1/2 of all United States wealth. More than double their share before Reagan took office. Still, they want more. They absolutely will not stop. Now, our society as a whole is in serious jeapordy. Greed kills.
You missed the point, Chicagobizowner.
Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and other innovators were rich men but like many others, they were also poor men first.
They never forget that. Jobs' dream and motivating drive was to make technology available to all, not just a few. Gates is spending billions to cure disease, educate, and leave the world a better place than he found it.
No one wants these folks or the new innovators to be hampered or deterred. The opposite is closer to the truth here. The protests signify that a world where all humans can reach their potential will produce far more Jobs and Gates than a world were only a few can.
We need a world were fairness and opportunity is not an ideal, but a reality. We need governments to promote improving the human condition for all, not just a few who can afford to buy favor. We need economic systems that is built on the hard work and sweat of all who participate, where all reap the prosperity, and yet maintains human compassion for those who are unable due to sickness, disability, or age.
We need to enforce the rights to freedom, liberty, equality, and the pursuit of happiness for all humanity not with guns, but with vocal compassion and commitment to doing what is right for all people, not just a few. If all are not free, then none are truly free.
America is still the guiding light for these principles and the protestors have inspired not only folks here, but folks everywhere.
THIS IS WHAT DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE. Amen.
The problem is the system, NEVER people. These CEO's you speak of have tremendous Knowledge Power that is not to be under-estimated, belittled, or dealt with in an unjust or inequitable manner, so as saying goes: "Keep your friends close, but your SO-CALLED enemies closer", for if you know yourself and know your SO-CALLED enemies very well, then in "a 100 battles there will be a 100 victories", per Sun Tzu, Art of War.
And just like them, many more people will come to your side when you are proactive (for “new” Business & Government solutions), instead of reactive (against “old” Business & Government solutions), which is why what we most immediately need is a comprehensive “new” strategy that implements all our various socioeconomic demands at the same time, regardless of party, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves; that is, using a Focused Direct Democracy organized according to our current Occupations & Generations. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategically Weighted Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
because we need 100,000 “support clicks” at AmericansElect.org to support a Presidential Candidate -- such as any given political opportunist you'd like to draft -- in support of the above bank-focused platform.
Most importantly, remember, as cited in the first link, that as Bank Owner-Voters in your 1 of 48 "new" Business Investment Groups (or "new" Congressional Committees) you become the "new" Congress replacing the "old" Congress according to your current Occupation & Generation, called a Focused Direct Democracy.
Therefore, any Candidate (or Leader) therein, regardless of party, is a straw man, a puppet; it's the STRATEGY – the sequence of steps – that the people organize themselves under, in Military Internet Formation of their Individual Purchasing & Group Investment Power, that's important. In this, sequence is key.
Why? Because there are Natural Social Laws – in mathematical sequence – that are just like Natural Physical Laws, such as the Law of Gravity. You must follow those Natural Social Laws or the result will be Injustice, War, etc.
The FIRST step in Natural Social Law is to CONTROL the Banks as Bank Owner-Voters. If you do not, you will inevitably be UNJUSTLY EXPLOITED by the Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government who have a Legitimate Profit Motive, just like you, to do so.
Consequently, you have no choice but to become Candidates (or Leaders) yourselves as Bank Owner-Voters according to your current Occupation & Generation.
So please JOIN the 2nd link so we can make our support clicks at AmericansElect.org when called for, at exactly the right time, by an e-mail from that group, in support of the above the bank-focused platform. If so, then you will see and feel how your goals can be accomplished within the above strategy as a “new” Candidate (or Leader) of your current Occupation & Generation.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/steps-to-success/
We created financial instruments that collapsed not only the housing market but also the sovereign debt of many nations across the world. We also used government loans to make sure nobody can regulate us by lobbying politicians with that socialist filth money. We also financed a fake movement with taxpayer money and have ensured the american people stay brainwashed and dumb.
Oh massa!! Thank you for the whip!!
By protesting they ARE doing something for their nation. We applaud great innovators, and believe that they should pay their fair share back to the system that MADE THEM WHO THEY ARE. The US has so many of these types of innovators because we have a good public educational system, good infrastructure, and an open political system. All of that has been seriously compromised by right wing Republicans who just want to tear down anything which benefits the middle class.
Make it more beutiful Make it more modern Make it less stagnet Bring it into the 21st century Fix social security and the economy If the old america was beutiful then the new north america you would think would be even more beutiful for the 99% instead of the gung ho patrotic american fighting the socialists why don't the gung ho patrotic americans join the socialists and make a more beutiful north america
We understand why you are frighted. Change is unnerving. This must be very difficult for you. You and the others who are posting negative comments on this forum are feeling threatened and uncertain. We understand. These are anxious times.Try to consider this from the perspective of those on "the other side" and then remember, THERE IS NO OTHER SIDE. There is one country, under God.
This is a new leaderless movement, barely one month old. It is messy and confusing, as it should be. 951 cities joined the protest yesterday. If this were not an authentic movement, this would not have happened.
We have never seen anything like this in the entire history of the planet.
Join us.
Where did you read that OWS is against corporations per se?
They are against corporate money in politics.
They are against banks being too big to fail.
They are against shady trading practices that helped cause the crash and continue.
They are against unprosecuted fraud committed by banks.
Has nothing to do with squashing innovation or corporations that produce consumer products.
At one point or another they no longer became the brains of the R&D. They just began manipulating the numbers and people.
Also, Gospel of Wealth by Andrew Carnegie.
Finally, don't worry, we don't plan to harm those companies. We need them in one piece so we that we can have stable employments.
I read that book and it was absolutely stupid. Hours of my life I can never get back. Are you really in favor of a system where the rich can buy elections and leave the rest of us with a sham democracy?
You don't get it. We need those entrepreneurs, but we also need teachers, fireman, street cleaner and violin players. Teachers, fireman, street cleaners and violin players are just as important to our society as the entrepreneur and deserve a living wage. Our system now gives 99% of the wealth to entrepreneurs, the pendulum must swing back to a reasonable number.
We are not against all that people you mention. I think you dont get the idea yet. We do like capitalism, entrepenurship.
But when things go bad , 2008 suprime crash...
Why do only the people had to pay with they TAX, saving the banks??
What had done GM General Motors for this century? Ineficients cars that takes to much oil. They detroy the electric car ??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F
We are against that...not agaist the "good" boys.... like maybe Steve jobs, or even BillGates....
Chicagobizowner:
Regarding your praise of what corporations make and do (for profit) for society: That's all fine and should happen, but the problem is that government and politicians are bought by corporations. Government and politicians answer far too much to the self interest of corporations and far too little to the interests of ordinary people.
Corporations are not "people". Corporations should not be allowed to make political contributions and should be otherwise kept far from the fringe of political influence by whatever legislative means necessary. Changes like this would make a huge impact in giving government and democracy back to the people.
Practice what you preach by signing this online petition. www.getmoneyout.com Thanks
edit...
This www.getmoneyout.com link ought to be among the main links on this website. It's not included in the list of links in the About section.
I agree. I have emailed info@occupywallst.org and asked they add this to the about section.
You are correct though, that if what OWS is asking for isn't done correctly, it could crash the economy. The problem is the solutions coming from the upper 1% aren't really constructive. For example, Bill Gates dad and Warren Buffet want to tax folks becoming wealthy-and leave entrenched wealth alone. I think that is backwards-and self- serving.
Stop!!!! Corporate America is destroying this country!!!! Its about time people are finally standing up to the corruption.
Hard to say what the OWS movement really means, but the messages are fairly clear and consistent and do not contradict what you are saying either (although including Pixar, Starbucks and Groupon in the same sentence is a bit problematic since Groupon is the sort of company NOT making money to pay its investors that leads to the kind of false wall-street market cap valuations that we should protest).
From what I can tell, the majority of protesters are not anti-corporation---they are anti greed. There is a difference. Neither capitalism nor socialism need to be unethical or egotistical--and they can actually work hand-in-hand within a democratically influenced republic. ;-)
Nobody would dispute that innovator really does a hard work to invent his product and that he should be allowed to reap the fruits of his hard work. The problem lies in the EXTENT of its use. You invent A.K.47 but you cannot use it to kill or rob other people's property. You work hard and earn wealth; good; enjoy it. But you should not be allowed to create circumstances by your wealth where others would find no freedom but to work for you. After all, this Earth is a common home for all, even the weakest. This is one logic. There is another one: there is not MATTER only but SPIRIT also, which needs a peaceful society and working environment that is distorted by your wealth. From the human evolutionary point of view, SPIRIT is more important than your MATERIALISTIC justice. Read these issues at: http://indianpeoplescongress.org/index.php
Please do us a little sacrifice for the United States! President Obama time! Look at his transformation ！！！！
you my friend are a big part of the problem not smart enough to realize whats happening.so keep putting tea partiers in their 200000 dollar RVS to go around spreading lies.
i try to give people awareness of whats happening in our daily lives, what do you do?
They are doing it now my deaf dumb and blind friend. This movement is the equivalent of a family intervention on a crackhead brother or sister. You my friend don't realize it because you are one of the crackheads. Let them help you. Get an education on American history.
This isn't about THOSE people, it's about the ones who are greedy, who ARENT trying to make this a better place. It's about the greedy people, who have a lot of power controlling what happens with OUR money. I'm currently a college student in debt $100,000 and won't be able to find a full time job when I graduate! I, like many others am watching my future go down the shitter because the love f money is this country is SICK!
Agreed.
The 99% are the country. they have build roads. they are working to provide the country with food and healthcare, education. They have lost there lives in corporate warfare to control the oil in the middle east.
And you say they haven't done anything for the country?
The only thing the 1% has done for the country is destroying lives in wars and in corruption.
Mrr, so what HAVE you contributed? You can insult all you want but proof is in the pudding.
I love that this website has a link to Facebook and Mark Zuckerburg is one of the top on your list! So hypocritical.
Great commentary, we need more folks like yourself to share this kind of insight.
Bah. Ayn Rand, rugged individualism, objectivism, social/economic darwinisn, "The collective".. Troll much:)?
♫DOn't feed the troll...♪