Forum Post: Herman Cain's 999 numbers.
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 16, 2011, 11:02 p.m. EST by aerocity
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http://www.liveimagephoto.com/2011/10/herman-cains-999-problem.html Interesting read, somebody did the math on the 999 plan.
What do you guys think? Did Cain know what he was talking about? This seems to fit right in with his ideas.
I think an 18% tax hike on half the country -- precisely the half that is struggling to get by as is -- would be a moral and economic catastrophe.
I think the anti-tax people that support Cain aren't being maliciously hypocritical. I think they're just plain stupid.
Anyone who knows the republican party should know Cain has zero chance. He is just their token black guy now that Steele is out. Do you seriously think they will allow a non white guy to be their nominee?
I know there are some people monitoring this website has anyone thought of putting a Land Tax as a demand by OWS? The theory of economic rent has been around for some time, but land taxation has seldom been implemented throughout history. It is well known that the factors of production are composed of land, labor and capital. Land, in the economic sense, can be explained as anything with a productive capacity that has not been created by men or women, but has value created by the community. Labor is any human energy spent , whether by the mind or through brute force, that contributes to a means of production. Capital is mainly what is spent from savings for future production. Under the current system, mainly labor and capital are taxed, while the landed elite make out like bandits with the rents that are created by the community! It is no surprise that civilizations have suffered from vast inequalities since the founding of the first governments. What we need to fight for is a redistribution of these economic rents for the sake of the people, while at the same time reducing the tax rates on labor and capital. These rents from land are the source of all wealth and are presently held by a small number of wealthy people who will speculate and slow there productive capacity in order to increase profits. This demand goes out to the people of OWS! If there is one thing we need to change in order to promote equality, environmental protection and job creation through increased productive capacity, this is the solution we need. Please read about economic rent and land taxation in order to fully grasp the concept. This is something proven in theory and not based on anyone's personal opinion or ideology. While we are divided on many things, it's time to come together with some real demands to benefit the majority of unrepresented individuals of the world. Lets show the top 1% that we know where their unearned wealth is coming from and that we know exactly what is needed in order to bring them back to the real world!
999=666??? nobody???
Factcheck also says that a family with children making 50K a year will pay MORE under Cain's plan:
http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2011/oct/13/herman-cain/herman-cain-says-someone-earning-50000-will-save-u/
I feel dirty that the plan is pulled from SimCity. I might not be able to play a Maxis game again.
Cain himself is trying to deny it would be an additional sales tax on top of state sales taxes... terrible, terrible, regressive plan that's a nonstarter.
Also, even his fellow republicans deny his assertion that the 999 plan will be revenue neutral. He's full of shit.
Any main stream politician cannot be trusted, the machine is broken, unless you replace ALL the broken parts nothing will change
Herman Cain is not a main stream politician, he has never held an elective office. Who do you expect to run for president? Someone has to run, who would you suggest, if not a main stream politician and not someone who has ever held an office before? I think we want someone who has some experience meeting a payroll and running a business and understands how jobs are created.
Have you actually done the math on his plan? For me it would mean an increase in the taxes i pay, Im not willing to pay one more cent in taxes than i have to to this wasteful government.
Herman Cain is ex Kansas Federal Reserve Chairman.
Did anyone for a minute seriously think this guy is not part of the establishment and part of the problem??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWH5TlbloU
Who would you like to run who is not part of the "establishment" , the "man" . What's the big deal about him working as the Kansas Federal Reserve Chairman? Who would be your ideal candidate?
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I think that's an unnecessary conclusion to draw.
Let's look to his actions instead.
Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.
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How can you ask if he knew what he was talking about? Of course not!
I did the math while I watched the econ debate.
Any working person who spends 100% of their income to survive each month will pay 18% on 100% their income. No deductions, no way out.
Wealthy business owners will pay an average of 11% with no capital gains tax.
He is a friggin GENIUS but a diabolical, double talking one.
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9 9 9 stands for a 9% payroll tax, 9% Federal sales tax and a 9% business tax.
If you're a W2 employee, you will pay a flat 9% Federal tax deducted from your paycheck.
Then, every penny you spend will have a 9% sales tax added to it. Any worker who needs to spend his entire paycheck to survive has paid 9% off the top to the government and then another 9% in sales tax.
That's the 18%. I suppose it may work out to a bit under 18% of gross since you already lost 9% off the top but it'll be close. And I didn't include any estimate of how prices might rise due to the sales tax paid by middlemen being passed on to consumers. So, I think it is still fair to call it 18% tax burden on W2 workers who spend 100% of their pay to survive.
BRB for the 11%.
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I'm pretty sure rent is taxed... it's taxed under the "Fair Tax" which 999 is a stepping stone to.
This 999 plan taxes everything but rent. The "Fair Tax" is a sales tax, but is absorbed entirely by the consumer. There is not much that is fair about it.
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Are you kidding?! Look on Cain's own site dude... 999 is simply a midway point on the way to the Fair Tax.
"Amidst a backdrop of the economic renewal created by the 9-9-9 Plan, I will begin the process of educating the American people on the benefits of continuing the next step to the Fair Tax."
Yea, he said this during the debate too. A phasing in of the Fair Tax.
The link the OP posted says that 999 applies to housing:
QUOTE: Cain’s tax plan consists of three different 9 percent taxes — one on wage income (investment income is exempt), one on sales of goods and services (including food, housing, and medicine), and one on business income (investments and purchases from other businesses are deductible; wages, however, are not).
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Lets take this step by step.
you are challenging me to find a link that says "investment income is not exempt"
I am not saying it is not exempt.
I provided material from the link that says it IS exempt.
Why should I have to prove it is not exempt? I was never saying it was not exempt.
In addition, I am not even talking about investment income right now.
I've been posting about the possible scenarios for W2 income. I'm not even concerning myself with investment income right now.
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Why? The op's link says it is exempt.
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Oh no tax on utilities? Well he didn't say that during the debate that's what I'm basing it on.
You give me the new number, since you're checking my work.
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I haven't seen any used food on Ebay lately. Unless Ebay itself will be a tax haven. That would be nice.
And...we're speaking of averages here. Some families may currently pay less than 15% depending on their deductions so they will experience an increase.
And..we haven't discussed those much despised menial and entry level workers who currently pay no Federal income tax and who are most likely to be spending every dollar of their paycheck on surviving every month.
They must pay their "fair share", I suppose, that's the position the Repubs take.
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Mikey - I'm assuming Cain wants the Fair Tax long term, which, incidentally, is EXACTLY what he wants. Fair Tax is fairly awful, although the prebate is marginally redeeming. It levies 23% on rent, services (utilities), and new home purchases.
I honestly think it's naive to think services aren't included in 999. However Cain might surprise me.
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Can't reply to your other post...
Anyway, assuming 999 is closer to "Fair Tax Lite", rent, utilities, and home purchases are most likely going to be taxed. 9% on a home purchase is murder for a mortgage, and drowns an already underwater housing market.
Actually, I don't even know where you're coming up with the assumption that rent and utilities will be untaxed. Source, please?
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Why, then, did multiple sources do the math and came up with: a $50k household's tax burden would go UP by $5k, on average?
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14% in payroll taxes - 7.5% is FICA, the employer pays the other 7.5 Yes, FICA goes away under 999. So that's 7.5 that is going away for the worker.
If there are any other payroll taxes, those go to local jurisdictions, disability plans, etc. Is my state income tax and UIB deduction going away by decree of the Federal govt?
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The devil is in the details...
NIEN NIEN NIEN SIX SIX SIX
Arrest Cain under the Trading With the Enemy Act!
LOL, Michelle Bachman had it right and that in itself is scary.
The whole 9-9-9 plan is very similar to that of the Neil Boortz plan for a 27% FairTax, for which the entire federal tax system is based solely on consumption taxation.
It limits the unnecessary resources spent by corporations and individual citizens complying with the 60,000 page tax code system by virtually eliminating the IRS. It has been approximated in multiple case studies that we spend upwards of three 40-hour work weeks planning, scheduling and paying for our taxes. Cain probably didn't go initially with the Boortz strategy, because Boortz has made many inflammatory remarks against Muslims in the past.
A Boortz quote - "[Muslims] need to straighten up…or we'll eradicate you from the face of the Earth"
Hah. Hardly a plausible explanation as Cain has spent plenty of time trumping up Islamophobia in a desperate grasp for attention before the Romney and Perry campaigns imploded.
Yea. He definitely sounded off against the WTC mosque.