Forum Post: Has a Harvard Professor Mapped Out the Next Step for Occupy Wall Street?
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 18, 2011, 12:14 p.m. EST by occupypitt17
(24)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
"It sounds a bit like shooting for the moon: we'll get the states to call for a Constitutional Convention, which will then propose an amendment to the Constitution that'll transform how congressional elections are financed, and will then be ratified by three-quarters of the states. But it does address three important obstacles to any solution. First, it harnesses the intelligence and creativity of a great many people to a problem that Lessig himself admits he hasn't quite found the perfect solution to yet. Second, it bypasses the usual means of reform (Congress, presidential elections, etc.) which the lobbyists and other interested parties have learned so well to manipulate. And lastly, such a convention would be free to propose solutions that would otherwise be subject to be striken as unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.
Now, we haven't had a Constitutional Convention since the one that wrote the original constitution. (And never mind that since the Articles of Confederation were in effect at the time, making that one technically illegal when it happened.) But we've come close. The Seventeenth Amendment, which changed the election of Senators to be by popular vote, was proposed by Congress when 27 states had called for a convention and it seemed imminent that more were about to. In fact, there have been over 700 such calls in our history, and they've served an important function in pushing Congress to pass certain reforms.
So how do we begin a popular movement that might end with states petitioning for a convention? Lessig calls for mock conventions to happen all across the land: assemblies of regular people to think of these, and other, problems, and come up with solutions that might work. Not only would these conventions come up with a spectrum of solutions which could be evaluated and selected from, but they'd build national support for the idea that a convention like this could work.
It sounds unlikely to happen. But this is where Occupy Wall Street comes in. Properly leveraging its support, it could generate enough energy to do what Lessig, while writing this book, couldn't quite picture. In fact, the original call for Occupy Wall Street, from Adbusters, called on president Obama to "ordain a Presidential Commission tasked with ending the influence money has over our representatives in Washington." Already, "The 99 Percent Declaration" is calling for "a NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY beginning on July 4, 2012 in the City Of Philadelphia" to address the influence of money in politics and other issues.
Properly presented, the strategies and aims of Lessig's book could make it the handbook the protesters have been looking for -- and provide a pathway for them to ride out the winter ahead."
This is huge. Keep this floating near the top.
It sounds like a viable next step once the seedling is moved out of the park.
I think this is what the ultimate goal of the movement should be. I don't think that it should be the only goal but since the process takes awhile, I think getting the work started immediatedly would be our best option.
From my post at http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-want-my-government-back-now/
"I am posting TODAY to share an AWESOME interview Tavis Smiley conducted on PBS last night (see http://www.pbs.org/wnet/tavissmiley/interviews/law-professor-lawrence-lessig ). He interviewed Lawrence Lessig, a director of the Edmond J. Safra Foundation Center for Ethics at Harvard and a law professor at Harvard Law School, regarding his book "Republic, Lost: How Money Corrupts Congress - and a Plan to Stop It" (see http://republic.lessig.org/ ). "
I like the idea of a leader representing our plan of action more than specific issues. Also not being a politician helps.
Since the Occupy movement has itself a regarded level of academic demographic within its body, it could take to its regular events a hosting of tabled unofficial committee dialogues and debates on exactly these forms of matters.
This could take place once a week. (example time table below)
It would be rather interesting to see a town square occupied by such weekly events. Instead of concerts or marches (alone), it would be interesting to see a sort of Aristotle protest model.
So a schedule would look like:
<12:00pm (occasional organized inspirational morning fillers) 12:00pm Think Tank Discussion 2:00pm Mockup Constitutional Convention Committee 4:00pm Meditation Circle 5:00pm Daily Info Meetup & Service Opportunity For Newcomers 5:45pm Intro to Direct Democracy and Facilitation Training 6:00pm Daily Yoga & Meditation Class 7:00pm Liberty Square General Assembly
Were doing something of the sort today in Pittsburg Kansas, minus the meditation and Yoga ( I love meditation, but I dont think rural Kansans will go for it ;) ). I think things like this work well in smaller towns. Its a lot easier to have real discussion in smaller groups.
Just to be clear to everyone reading, every item on that outlined timeline was copied from the front page agenda outline of occupywallst.org, except for the proposed concept of adding a 2:00pm Mockup Constitutional Convention Committee. I just want to be clear that I didn't write that outline; I only wanted to show how the mockup would look embedded in the already present timeline.
Actually the Constitutional Convention was called by Congress then organized and acting under the Articles of Confederation. It was called to reform the Articles of Confederation, though, so in drafting an entirely new document it could be said to have been acting outside of its mandate.
I don't know that even write ins will help, a lot of states have changed voting laws. That means more then half of the 99's won't or can' t vote. We really need to look at the small pitures too. Things are going on in the states that will hurt 99's the most. For a lot of states we have to keep an eye on our own backyard.
July 4th, 2112
Forum Post: National General Assembly proposed for July 4, 2012
Posted 1 month ago on Oct. 12, 2011, 9:11 a.m. EST by publicus1 This content is user submitted and not an official statement
We will start implementing this plan on 10-15-11 at the GA in NYC.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/national-general-assembly-proposed-for-july-4-2012/
Forum Post: Upcoming July 4th LOD: Bring it to Vote!!!
Posted 1 week ago on Nov. 4, 2011, 6:59 p.m. EST by likeadog (Portland, OR) This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I've seen some news about the possible release of a list of demands from the Occupy Wall Street on July 4th, 2012. As far as I can tell, 2 representatives from each district are to be chosen to create and release a list of demands.
This has the same intrinsic problem as the electoral college. We have to trust our representative to vote for us. A better way to handle it would be to hold a vote that all citizens residing in America can attend and get there own personal voices heard. This way, each individuals voice is heard and their concerns validated through majority. You know...Democracy?
If we really want to show people what Democracy looks like, we should start coordinating a nationwide vote now.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/upcoming-july-4th-lod-bring-it-to-vote/
BE IT RESOLVED THAT:
WE, THE NINETY-NINE PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, in order to form a more perfect Union, by, for and of the PEOPLE, shall elect and convene a NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY beginning on July 4, 2012 in the City Of Philadelphia.
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
I will not there so do not speak for me.
there is time
There is time for you to get out of my country
A Constitutional Conventions risks totally fucking the existing Constitution and Bill of Rights.
A Constitutional Convention takes years to get adopted and requires the agreement and support of the Wall Street corrupted Democrats and Republicans.
A constitutional convention presupposes that we will ignore the existing corruption and corrupt Democrats and Republicans for this pie in the sky hope of change in the future.
A constitutional convention allows the Republicans and Democrats to continue, for the foreseeable future, with their corrupt practices and control of our government.
Fuck that!.
We have the power here and now to stop the Democrats and Republicans.
We have the power here and now to neutralize the corrupt effects of Wall Street's duopoly dollars that flood the campaigns of the two parties.
Find alternative candidates and WRITE-IN their names in the primaries and general election.
Its FREE.
Its EASY.
Its there and available to us all NOW!
Are we really willing to give our state legistatures that miight power??? I live in WI, have you seen what the GOP new state governors are doing to a LOT of states? The goverrnor in MI is taking over a city & kicking out all the elected officals. Sorry i can not trust them
The next thing they'll trot out is the option to do it with delegates selected by "we the people". Don't fall for that b.s. either. We have no idea who would have what agenda. People pushing this are starting to get my suspicions up.
"a NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY beginning on July 4, 2012 in the City Of Philadelphia"
I've seen that topic here but I lost track of it
Who says what is brought out at this convention? There are people out there trying to co-op the 99%. Look what happened to the teabags, the GOP complelely took them over, helped by a few really rich assholes.
exactly.
It would have to be voted on by state legislatures. It would be messy and far from perfect, but it is an actual avenue for change, and those are few and far between. The state legislatures would be pressured to be the good guy, It would aim to get the money out of Washington after all, they love to play the blame game and Washington is everyones favorite scapegoat.
We don't need Constitutional conventions.
We don't need campaign finance reform.
Constitutional Amendments and campaign finance reform require the support and participation of the corrupt members of the Democrats and Republicans who today benefit from the status quo of the corruption. They will not give up the success of their corruption.
We have the power to change the electoral process in hand right now. All that we really need is a new way of thinking about the electoral process and we can devalue Wall Street's duopoly dollars that today subvert our democracy. Fuck the Democrats and Republicans!
Its free.
Its easy.
Its available to us NOW!
Write-In.
A concerted national effort to Write-In alternative candidates will effectively neutralize the Wall Street duopoly dollars that have bought the two dominance parties.
Special focus should be paid to voting OUT the current members of congress who, in 1999, voted to repeal Glass-Steagall. These people licensed Wall Street to rape and pillage America's financial system.
SEE: The Congress that Crashed America http://home.ptd.net/~aahpat/aandc/congcrash.html
A compilation of current members of Congress who, in 1999, repealed Glass-Steagall.
'It's Not the People Who Vote that Count; It's the People Who Count the Votes' ..... Chadwick Stalin
True.
And Write-In bypasses them as well.
Often the Democrats and Republicans will refuse to count Write-In votes. they get away with it because not many people Write-In. But if there is a concerted campaign using Write-In that embodies thousands of voters it will not matter if they count the actual votes because the total votes will reflect the discrepancy. The media and people will see that the parties are refusing to acknowledge the actual votes. It simply requires enough people participating in a Write-In campaign.
The larger non voting majority will have won the election?
I didn't say that.
If 100,000 people vote in a Congressional race and it is reported that 32,000 Democrats and 30,000 republicans participated there will be 38,000 Write-In votes whether or not the Democrats and Republicans in the voting offices actually report the votes. They can't get around it. The can't refuse to count the individual votes. They can refuse to report the individual votes. They cannot refuse to report the total votes.
So their fucking with the vote counting process will simply give OWS good reason to occupy the voting registration offices until they give us an honest reporting.
Refusal to report write in votes when there is clear evidence of a large amount of them, will force recounts. The recounts will be done under the watchful eye of an educated and angry populace. Directly outside the registration offices? If I seem divergent or cynical I have not those intents.
That is my contention.
We have the power we simply need to exercise it. NOW!
I think highly of that particular idea. I cringe at the reality of a real recount, where personal handwriting would be a determinant in legitimacy of a vote cast, when punch cards were barely possible.
Write-in is a title only these days in most states. The computers in many state's polling places have type-in rather than a write-in.
There is also the solution of OWS types circulating pre-printed stickers that can be used in manual polling machines. There are solutions. We need to work on them now and start finding and promoting candidates for next November.
Well thought out ideas. I will talk later. Thx.
Just a little correction... we didn't repeal Glass-Steagall in it's entirety. In addition the same folks who advocate restoration of the portions we repealed are JUST as guilty in their calls for modification of the Banking Act of 1935. BOTH acts incorporated lessons learned from the Depression. Glass-Steagall limited the ability of Bank to get "too big to fail." and the Banking Act 0f 1935 removed political control over the Federal Reserve (other than the President's ability to nominate board members for 14 year terms subject to the approval of the Senate).
Political interference in the Federal Reserve, particularly by the Hoover administration, was found responsible for the Great Depression, and the act was intended prevent politicians from manipulating the nation's finances toward their own political ends. I am baffled at people who want to let the politicians back in. They are just as lacking in knowledge of history, and just as guilty of undoing Depression era reforms as was was Congress in revising Glass-Steagall.
Glass-Steagall was repealed in 1999. BEFORE the Bush administration existed.
As an Independent I don't have much interest in partisan distortion and disinformation.
Oops, you're right ! The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, passed in 1999, prohibited any one institution from acting as any combination of an investment bank, a commercial bank, and an insurance company.... The legislation was signed into law by President Bill Clinton.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm–Leach–Bliley_Act
I wasn't trying to assign blame by the way. I fixed my post.
Go back a read more closely. You have it backward.
A better package of information is the timeline of deregulation that i have linked on my web page: The congress that Crashed America http://home.ptd.net/~aahpat/aandc/congcrash.html
S-900 The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Fiancial Services Modernization Act of 1999 enabled banks to merge with investment companies. It also further deregulated derivatives. and it reorganized the Community Reinvestment Bank lowering their mortgage standards. These three actions, combined, created 'too big to fail' banks. Allowed those banks to write low quality mortgages. and gave the banks derivative contracts to bundle AAA mortgages with the low quality mortgages they were writing. this is what led to the financial collapse of America in 2008.
And it was bi-partisan. A Republican congress with Democrats supporting it and the Goldman-Sachs subsidiary Clinton Administration in full support.
Ok. Who are these candidates? What will their stances on the issues be? Will the movement have to come together to decide what those issues are? We can start protesting NOW for a constitutional convention. All it takes is some support and the media will pick up on it, all the sudden it will be in the public discussion in a wider realm than just the Occupy movement. Even if we don't succeed in holding a convention historically the threat of convention has forced congress to act.
The candidates are picked in the congressional districts. Their platforms will be whatever people who pick the candidates like.
A Constitutional convention takes years and the agreement of the two parties. It will also require that the two parties have a say. More likely they will control the convention.
And there is no controlling their total trashing of the existing Constitution and Bill of Rights once the Constitutional convention gets under way.
I want to work with the existing system in a new way that can effect change immediately.
You want to risk totally destroying the existing Constitution for some vague hope of someday making some unstated changes that you hope for. You are talking pie in the sky. I am talking brick and mortar reality.
I question the ability to elect write in candidates on any scale to actually make a difference. Money will be working against it. The system has to change or you wont be able to accomplish something like that. There are two parties for a reason, its almost impossible for any others to join in.
So your saying that you will allow the Wall Street dollars to win the here and now by your not even trying to use the existing system in new and creative ways.
In the pbs video posted above he talks about how Americans dont have any confidence in congress. It says "at what point does an institution have to declare political bankruptcy because people have no confidence in it. How will our OWS representatives hold any more confidence than other representatives, and how will we hold them accountable in the current system? Like the article I don't know that an actual convention would happen, but there's a good chance that a large group of people coming out in support of it will give the general public the idea that they don't have to just be disappointed in congress, they can do something about it. That pressure will most likely make congress reform itself before a convention happens. At least thats the historical precedent.
Apples and oranges.
You have one agenda and you will accept no alternative. No matter how dangerous your agenda really is.
Giving the Democrats and Republicans access to rewriting the Constitution and Bill of Rights is the dumbest and most dangerous thing that you can do. STUPID! If you think they have too much power now just give them a chance to rewrite the Constitution. Lunacy.
It is pie in the sky, but thats what we need right now. Big solutions. And the way the conventions work you can call for a single amendment to the constitution, not risk the entire bill of rights.
Id be all for it! We could work on both, maybe elect representatives to state legislatures that we could count on to represent our voices in the case of a constitutional convention. As I said before, states could propose an amendment stating that corporations aren't people. They wouldnt be able to just make changes to the constitution willy nilly like some of you are suggesting. As for write in votes it does take time and money to win elections. It isnt just free or easy to get votes. The tea party easily made a difference in the 2010 elections because their whole substance was an opposition to Obama and his policies, all of which were easily picked up by the Republicans. OWS however has more complicated goals that don't have specific corporate or political sponsors. I also wonder how capable OWS is as a political brand. Our "brand" when looking at it from a marketing perspective, doesn't exactly lend itself towards winning elections.
ain't happenin'.
Why? Its bold, its catchy, everyone can get behind it, and we aren't forced to make any specific demands or take any specific stances on policy. Thats left to the conventions.
It's lunacy, and most people realize that. Change, even very dramatic change, is very possible without opening up the Constitution to whoever's around with who-knows-what agenda.
The Tea Party is our enemy and they are much better prepared to dominate a constitutional convention that OW is. This is not a joke. They'll run right over OW in that setting.