Forum Post: Guns remind government that we the people run the government - Vive l' Occupy!
Posted 11 years ago on Jan. 18, 2013, 6:59 p.m. EST by elf3
(4203)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
At least they are supposed to remind government the people have some power in our hands as well - if our police can bare arms then so shall we to prevent the powers that be from becoming too powerful. Corrupt power corrupts absolutely and banning guns is the next domino coming down.
Now they are proposing we must have insurance to carry guns - (Massachusetts is proposing this idea) - has it occurred to anyone in Occupy that the purpose of the right to bare arms is to protect yourself against a corrupt government? ..so in order to protect ourselves in the future from our corporate captors, we'll now have to pay our captors and get the permission to do so. Since insurers can decide to deny coverage based on credit bureaus FICO and who knows what else may be in that FICO report - our sole ability to rebel against a corrupt CORPORATE BOUGHT government and the people who corrupted it, relies on their permission to do so - um... do you think anyone in this movement might be denied gun coverage based on their Patriot Act Score? (That may be next) They are using FEAR once again to subvert our rights. The economy is about ready to fall into the shitter and reliable, renowned economists are predicting a total economic meltdown in 2 years time.
SO - Why do you think they might want to make sure that only the elite carry weapons / only the people who can afford insurance or who are granted coverage to carry? Wow is all I can say. Step outside of your normal beliefs on gun ownership and please take a moment to contemplate the implications of this !!! Occupy ...this isn't good.
at a time when corporations are making unprecedented grabs for power within our government, when they want to become our government - are we going to let them take away our last means of protection against their abuses if in the future all else has failed and they succeed in become our totalitarian oppressors?
In Conclusion - Guns are the people's INSURANCE POLICY against Corrupt Government !!!!
While I myself don't own any guns - I still believe in preserving the right to keep my government in check (even if it is only symbolically.)
Oh, good grief! Please get a grip! What do you want assault weapons for? What are they designed to do? Who gains from their trade? Why aren't shotguns, bolt-action hunting rifles, pistols and revolvers enough? What do you want next? RPGs? Claymores? Tanks & APCs? Where and when does this end? What are you so frightened of? Do the words 'solidarity, society and democracy' have any meaning still?
I would say why shouldn’t I be able to own an AR or AK. I’m a law abiding citizen, never been arrested and sound of mind. The reason why I own them doesn’t matter.
However, the way things are looking maybe society might unravel. Civil unrest and martial law probably isn’t as farfetched as it sounds. I don’t actually believe that, but you never can tell.
AR-15 or AK-47?! RPGs & Claymores?! Trade your car in for an M1-Abrams or an APC! Civil 'Unrest and martial law'! I'm soooo sick of these addictions, illusions & delusions!!! Our militaristic mentally has now permeated so deep into society that it is metastasising all over the place! All these guns do not make us any freer - they just make us more paranoid and fearful of each other! So much for 'democracy'!
G*d help the USA!
I understand you’d prefer people didn’t have semi=auto rifles. You think bolt action rifles, lever action rifles, pistols and revolvers are enough. My point is semi-auto rifles represent about 3% of all gun crime. Pistols are by bar the favorite among criminals. So banning AR’s, AK’s and other so called assault rifles accomplishes nothing.
I agree there is too much gun violence in America. But the bulk of criminal gun use is gang related. I suggest if you really want to reduce gun crime you crack down of street and drug gangs. It’s not that hard to understand.
Time to be realistic. Guns in America are here to stay. No matter how much some people don’t like them they aren’t going away. It’s starting to look like Obama’s gun ban and magazine restriction will fail. So, you need to be looking at ways to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, rather than taking some guns from honest folks. Surely you can agree with that?
'Time to be realistic' - 'Behind The NRA's Money' - http://www.nationofchange.org/behind-nra-s-money-gun-lobby-deepens-financial-ties-12-billion-firearms-industry-1358354431 - I'm not advocating a ban on all guns but what do semi-automatic assault weapons have to do with The Second Amendment? Occupy The Real Issues!
The NRA has about 4 million members. There are an estimated 80+ million gun owners in the US. The NRA is also not as big bucks as most folks think. The NRA has become the whipping boy of the anti-gun folks. When in fact it’s the other 75 million voting gun owners they should worry about.
It’s a standard statement to say “we don’t want to take all guns”, and that’s true for a lot of people. However there are a lot of people who really do want to take all the guns, and revoke the 2nd amendment.
A large portion of gun owners, I would say most, see a never ending assault on the 2nd amendment. Have you seen all the crazy bills that have already been filed? I mean special gun insurance, heavy taxes on gun and ammo, restricting certain type of guns and ammo, and the list goes on. The anti-gun folks will continue to hammer away, no matter what happens on the current proposals.
The mindset of most gun owners is don’t give an inch. Fight tooth and nail any new suggested gun restrictions. We see it a just another step toward gun confiscation. Like it or not, paranoid or not, that’s just the way it is.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Tch! & - http://www.nationofchange.org/police-arrest-gunman-new-mexico-shooting-1358780423 . Excuse me if I don't feel sorry for the pro-gun-business NRA! I have a gun and I'm sick of paranoid reactionaries like you thinking that you speak for us all. Learn some moderation. Occupy A Clue!
Sigh, whatever. You're still getting our guns. Got it now?
Whatever! I don't know what you mean or if your probable typo only really reflects your deeper paranoia - so go read - http://www.nationofchange.org/tea-party-congressman-citizens-should-have-same-weapons-military-1358955104 and see if you see yourself reflected in the mirror, darkly! Never Underestimate Moderation! Go Occupy A Clue!
I’m not a member of the Tea Party. They’re probably more dangerous to the nation than OWS ever thought about being.
I’m not anti-OWS. I just think it needs to get its act together and focus on something. Just to rage against the injustice in the world is pissing in the wind. How about a plan, how about a strategy, how about coming up with something the masses can support.
It is obvious that you talk shit. Click the news button - OWS puts out plenty of items to unite on.
Then why isn't the real 99% buying into the OWS hype. I'm not trying to slam OWS. I'm just saying they can't seem to garner the interest of the people.
BS - the presidents inaugural ( lip service ) address was specifically aimed at OWS/Occupy individuals the 99%. Established groups are supporting OWS/Occupy activities. You have nothing but put downs.
I'm sorry DK. Where I live OWS is a faint memory.
Not surprised. You should try living in reality.
Paranoia self destroya - Hey littletoe ain't-cha worried that the government monitors are gonna trace your IP and put you on a watch list? Maybe they will come to your place for a look see at why you are being so paranoid - ummm outspoken. Yeah - good thing you are not a OWS/Occupy supporter or they might try to use your nuttery for more misinformation attacks.
I’m not anti-OWS; never have been. OWS has some admiral goals. However, they can’t seem to get their act together. For instance, how do you propose to gain the support of the masses who think breaking store windows is a bad idea.
Bottom line. If OWS is ever to have any serious success it will have to actually explain to the masses exactly what they are about.
And no, I’m not a troll. I’m just responding in kind.
What kind of gas mileage with an Abrams? They got an electric hybrid? I like to be green.
Is that 'green' with envy 'cause your neighbor's tank has a bigger gun than yours? Do you now need anti-tank weapons? Where is this arms race taking us? Wtf is going on in this country? I despair for us all!
King: I Have a Dream Obama: I Have a Drone.
Influenced government?
CorpoRAT goal
Their image of the future
Consider the facts around the country around the world - you should then agree.
Wash-up time for breakfast
Food 4 Thought - TWEET
'5 people shot at 3 Gun Shows on Gun Appreciation Day' - http://www.nationofchange.org/5-people-shot-3-different-gun-shows-gun-appreciation-day-1358693442 - Laugh? I nearly cried! Tweet it & weep! Sad :(
ooops ? that weren't a life like target?
Nope! They were people! Fellow citizens even! Now dead! Gun deaths are an epidemic in our country and a slow genocide is unfolding because we fear and hate our fellow citizens.
Our society is sick! Guns are NOT the cure! Are you for even more guns?
I am for curing the ILL's of society:
Influenced government?
CorpoRAT goal
Their image of the future
Consider the facts around the country around the world - you should then agree.
Wash-up time for breakfast
Food 4 Thought - TWEET - it.
I'm forced to note your lack of a straight answer!
You don't like the attached visuals? I thought they made a pretty clear statement. My Bad. I guess.
The question was, 'Are you for even more guns?' & if anything your cryptic answer implied 'yes'!
I guess visuals are not for every one.
[-] 1 points by Ache4Change (1572) 1 minute ago
You could have given a straight answer and your 'Mad Max' visuals were too ambiguous for my taste. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
Perhaps I should have ended the comment = this does not require guns - or it really really should not.
Did you click on the colored words? ( links - to - appropriate visuals ) If so then I guess I really need to rethink my visual attached/completed comments.
You could have given a straight answer and your 'Mad Max' visuals were too ambiguous for my taste.
EDIT: ( better? )
I am for curing the ILL's of society: "this does not require guns - or it really really should not. It Should reduce the need for em."
1 - Influenced government
2 - CorpoRAT goal
Their image of the future
3 - Consider the facts around the country around the world - you should then agree.
4 - if left as is - Wash-up time for breakfast
Food 4 Thought - TWEET - it.
Well, I like the visuals.
Must be so - it got voted off of the best comment board as soon as it got there. Wonder if it had anything to do with the comment about needing less guns with the ills of society being addressed?
[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (11988) 35 minutes ago
Yes it is. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
I'd like to think that it was because they disagreed with the stance but the odds are that what was written did not even register. You could have said, "Hell, yeah. I love the NRA" and it wouldn't have mattered.
Hhmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (11994) 1 minute ago
Sure, break out the best brokers. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
OH - OK - wait a sec - U don't mean(?) . . . . they just do not care ? About others?
[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (11994) 0 minutes ago
D, it doesn't register who you are what you believe in. In fact, they don't recognize that you are human. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
Sure, break out the best brokers.
You mean . . . sniff . . . that they may not like - ME ???
[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (11994) 2 minutes ago
I'd like to think that it was because they disagreed with the stance but the odds are that what was written did not even register. You could have said, "Hell, yeah. I love the NRA" and it wouldn't have mattered. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
D, it doesn't register who you are what you believe in. In fact, they don't recognize that you are human.
Thanks - I thought it might help flesh out a communication. A picture is worth a thousand words?
Yes it is.
http://youtu.be/bPN3tI0N83o
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/17/parody-nra-urges-members-to-live-in-fear/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Thanks for that crock of shit!
http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2013/01/guns-are-for-fighting-government.html?m=1
Oh,good grief! Please educate yourself and stop with the ignorant hyperbole will ya?
Here's some free information. A so-called "assault weapon" to which you are referring to is a .223 caliber and is a semi-automatic rifle used for hunting,home defense and target shooting.
It isn't the purview of you or this Government to determine what firearms Americans want or need. The fully auto guns and tanks everything else you spew about are already outlawed.
What do you want assault weapons for? What are they designed to do? Who gains from their trade? Why aren't shotguns, bolt-action hunting rifles, pistols and revolvers enough? What do you want next? RPGs? Claymores? Where and when does this end? Also see - http://www.nationofchange.org/police-arrest-gunman-new-mexico-shooting-1358780423 .Illusions of freedom in the reality of danger for us all!
Maybe they want to ensure the "black population" don't own firearms - think that may be the main reason?
has anyone ever told you you're a few shy of a full cookie jar - more like half empty - just like your posts ..
Hey a lot of people in this country still think white people want to opress the blacks - just thought I would throw that out there - you never know - especially if they are Republicans.
They know the "black population" unemployment rate is around 16% maybe even higher in this country. You never know.
Sure. There are some who are now claiming the 2nd ammendment was written to protect slavery. Think there is a thread on that here.
All conservatives are racists if you read the leftwing press. It's why we want our guns. It's why dempcrats have been convinced guns are bad and not the people that misuse them. Man, I haven;t heard a word so misused as racism has this decade.
Perceptive comment.
Maybe you agree that we should have the right to the same weapons as the military?. Viva L'Tea Party?
http://www.nationofchange.org/tea-party-congressman-citizens-should-have-same-weapons-military-1358955104
Votes remind government that we the people run the government - Vive l' Occupy!
Was just watching a video that reminds me about Prohibition.
http://www.vice.com/vice-news/the-mexican-mormon-war-part-7 (this video will probably get anyone to have comments)
Prohibition of Commodities seems like non-sense.
A) Drugs are available across the border, drugs in the USA are the best quality and availability ever, a war is being fought, but education and drug treatment is more effective, seems like the US Police Agencies benefit from the investment in a drug war, big banks get to launder the money, and even big Pharma gets a piece of the prescription market and gets to push drugs in cancer treatments, child behavior problems, and even a little Oxycondone Dirty business with legal protection.
B) Gold Prohibition would be just such a failure.
C) Guns Prohibition would also be a failure.
D) Prohibit information and education ... that would be a failure as OWS proves.
E) Incarceration of young black men is a failure, we still get new people arrested, put in jail, and even people who previously have been incarcerated end up going back.
F) Now we are trying Prohibition of Job Training, and Prohibition of Jobs with benefits and jobs with decent salaries... but that is a failure as we have OWS and a movement that will not go away.
G) Stretch a little - we have a prohibition of Bank Fraud and that failed when the crooks took over washington DC.
H) We had a Prohibition of Monopolies like Standard Oil, and Ma Bell telephone ... which we broke up with Anti-Trust. That failed also.
The way I see it, go ahead and ban assault rifles. Its not going to address the bigger problems, like our bombs over seas or our 14k murders a year here. Its only going to make a few politicians feel like they are actually worth somethingI, and give the remaining (and shrinking) sheep that follow them feel like there is hope.
They've made guns that arent registered in NY mandatory prison time. Hasnt stopped anything, and if you want a gun, its not hard to find (Im speaking about Rochester NY).
Gary Null video youtube The Drugging of our Children ...seems like the best argument against Obama's Gun Bans.
I watched the doc again yesterday and I could not agree with you more. I wish everyone on here would take the time to watch this- especially if they have children in their family.
Clearly there are a million people or more that know that Medications are hurting kids brains and ruining their lives. Damn:
1) Big Pharma Take Over of Government
2) Big Agriculture Take Over of Government
3) Big TBTF Banks Take Over of Government
4) Military Industrial Complex Take Over of Government
5) Big Oil (Rockafeller) Take Over of Government
DId I miss anything????
All of the above take over government/public schools?
Morning. Yep. Schools are part of government. Yesterdays videos really opened up my eyes. I almost feel lucky to have grown up before all the vaccines, pesticides, computers, video games, etc. They would have given me something for ADD since I was a little slow with math at one point, and didn't apply myself to writing.
They say the schools get all kinds of unhealthy snacks. I saw some franchises for healthy vending machine foods to put in schools. But you know I had a lot of hotdogs in high school and soft drinks. Kids are hard to feed. Has it really changed from the 70s.?
Being slow at math ( and I'm an expert on this!) is usually not the student's fault..it's usually the teacher's fault. Math phobics make the best math teachers because they understand how to teach it in a language that is more universally understood.
I think a lot about how innocent and free my school days seemed. I guess that gives me even more reason to feel sad today. Yes, there is a huge difference between the 70's and now and the only improvements that I see are really superficial- like salad bars, modern buildings with air conditioning, fancy athletic fields, etc... The quality of education has not improved ( unless your weatlhy enough to attend an academy or private school) and the kids are not really kids anymore. I sense a real loss of childhood in our culture.
I would have definitely been dx as ADD. I was a day dreamer, an inventor, had such a creative mind and I was also very passionate about learning more if something interested me ( which was rare ) so I asked a lot of questions at times. I did get several hundred hours of in school suspension one year for drinking malt duck in the bathroom. hahahha But, the hours spent with my truant officer were well worth the hell I went through at home. I learned more in suspension than I did in the classroom. There were a handful of teachers throughout my life, like my truant officer, that took a special interest in me, admired me for being different I guess and invested more of themselves in mentoring me. The wonderful things they did with me would never be allowed today.
My HS had one soda vending machine but none of us could afford a coke, so it was rare that we drank them. The lunches were prepared by cooks/chefs and not processed but they were a bit too 'rich' for me and I could not eat all that butter. Those lunches would probably not be considered healthy today but back then, before we were fat and deluged with artifical this and that and other chemicals, those lunches were actually healthy. Besides, the kids were mostly poor and so for many, those hefty lunches were a godsend- perhaps the only meal they got that day. The lunches were inexpensive too...50 cents for most, free for anyone who was poor. Milk and juice was included.
Oh man, I wish I had gotten suspended like you. I never had a good teacher relationship. Ship 'em in, n ship 'em out. lol
Yeah, bet those kids needed the calories and fat...I remember where you went to school... I guess some schools still don't have great heat in metro areas. Heard some about that last year.
I did a really stupid thing- besides drinking grape malt duck in the bathroom. My freshman English class was 7th period and guess what? I skipped it the entire year and no one noticed until I was a junior/senior. Even crazier was that I was able to graduate as a junior but I had to take the freshman english my junior summer to get my diploma! They would not allow me to test out of it even though I always had A's and B's in English. I also had to serve detention but the hours were so numerous that they offered me a job in the office for my senior year instead. I didn't have any classes my senior year, just office duty.
My schools had great heat but the HS had no a/c. It was awful. They built a new school after I graduated. Of course.
Now that sounds like an old boy network. "ya'll don't have to go to class". "Why don't ya'll just work in the office here?" Maybe we can find a place for you the year after as an assistant... lol
hahahahha
Actually M, I was elated. There is nothing more miserable than sitting in a boring detention class. At least I could do something and be productive..sort of like having a job in prison. hahahha
Sounds like you got Stockholms Syndrome.
So you would rather sit in detention class/hall? Not me.
Ah, just joking around. Tryin' to be funny. Actually I wish I had a adult friend or an uncle or something when i grew up. I missed out on a childhood in some ways.
OJT program ? an educational plus On The Job training - oh but this would properly be known as ODT "on the detention training" ( school offering rarely recognized or given credit - real ground breaking education )
BTW - I always thought of OJT as more of a program to hook a kid up with a minimum wage job - not to learn anything but just to get em off the street.
ODT hahaha
My school wasn't all that sophisticated but I remember some sort of class/program at my HS where kids would study business and other business related subjects but then they were given jobs in town like secretary, cashier. Not sure what that class was but it was like FFA or FHA ( Future Farmers of America). Do you remember anything like that?
I worked part time all through HS as a secretary and carpenter's asst. so I didn't need another job! hahahha But, unfortunately, had to serve my time. On my 18th birthday I asked for my school records and then burned them.
4H ? was like that future farmers thing. I like your show of protest - burn the transcripts of a rotten educational experience.
No chilluns that is not a F'n big funny looking dog......moo . . . my book tells us that this is where hamburgers come from . . . no Janey I don't think they lay em . . . hmmm . . . ah gathering burgers . . . lets see turn to page . . . reference supplying the Mc and Donald . . . hmmm . . . seems kinda technical........................... ewwwwwwwwww . . . um thats enough research for now .......... ummm the trip to the burger barn for lunch has been switched to the hot-dog house . . . no I don't know Janey . . . no I don't want to look right now . . . maybe after lunch ok?
Nah, not 4-H. It was some type of ' vocational' type training though. It wasn't a bad program actually but I wasn't interested in it. It prepared people for the work force.....interviews, career studies, trade skills, business mngt sort of stuff. It also helped those ' average' kids to get jobs in town to help support their families.
This was a small rural farming town- a mighty shock to my suburban soul. I remember asking my dad what the ' Farm Use' meant on the side of trucks and he told me. I thought, ' Thank G-d almighty, if need be, I can paint our car and have an escape out of here"...hahahha
I entered school there in grade 3 but because their curriculum was so behind my northern school experience, they bumped me to grade 6 for all my classes except home room and PE. It was a horrible experience and after one year I refused to go to middle school without my home room peers.
Sorry to ramble on so DK but I hadn't really thought about all this in such depth as I am at the moment and it's blowing my mind that I experienced this malarkey in the school system.
My HS PE teacher was African American, the first black female teacher ever in our school. they fired her because she was so angry about them giving me detention. She proposed that I run laps each day around the football field and work as her assistant in coaching tennis. I remember her throwing her entire bag of balls and bats, etc... in the middle of the office and walking out. She stayed in contact with me for several years after graduation. The guidance counselor was amazing. When I left home and moved here at 18, I panicked because I was so alone and didn't know what to do with my life. I knew I needed a plan B in case my balloon girl career at Bush Gardens didn't work out. I was thumbing through my year book and she had written, " if you need anything you call me" and I took that to mean literally and so I called her and asked her if she could help me. She got in her car and drove down the next day and spent an entire week with me, driving me to colleges and universities in nearby towns, helping me apply and introducing me to all sorts of really cool places and people here. After ten years of working in a bio-chem lab to support myself and pay for my college, I finally became a biologist, chemist and horticulturalist ( and HS teacher for one year) Geeze it seemed like it took forever but when I graduated, I was already employed in a great job and I had only one school loan that I had to pay back of 2500 dollars. I can't believe how expensive education is today. I would have never had a chance in hell to do what I did if I were young today.
Thanks - sounds like you were blessed in meeting that teacher - and further in reaching out.
OJT - 4H - FFA were kind of all related programs for study and credit in getting ready to join the work force.
Hey - but it is not about your strengths and weakness's it is about following a program - how dare you step outside of schedule.
I know, I know. I never learned to conform and it's been a life long issue.
I remember the VP calling my stepdad to come in and meet with him about my drinking issue and as I was shaking in my knee socks, my dad said, ' If I had to get up every morning and attend this broken, miserable, uninspiring school, I'd drink first thing too!". hahahha However, the ride home was not nearly as pleasant.
LOL - Thanks Dad. Oh don't you give me that little miss - So you think that - and . . . ( But bu.... Dad you told the Principal.... )
It must be a terrible thing for the school system to consider :
hmmm this kid is ahead of the textbooks - what to do - what to do - oh my - can I be flexible and go beyond the current lesson plan? - oh my oh my - what a conundrum..............
Yep, you got it!
Yes Child - yes they are wrong - BUT..................
I can't wait to see one of our patriotic protectors or a brain dead Minuteman taking on a drone's hellfire missiles with his AR-15 or Kalashnikov. How about an A-10's 30mm gatling cannon? I own firearms and want to keep them but this defense of liberty fantasy is the absurd delusion of a ten year old.
it's not that simple:
Say the economy melts down - the dollar is worthless downgraded to zero
Chaos breaks out - National Guard is called in (Marshall Law likely)
The sheer numbers of the masses will outweigh them.
Food disappears from shelves, gas runs out, people begin to riot.
Now only the rich people have guns and your family hasn't got one...
The government and rich elite begin to horde resources all of them.
Your family is left to battle in chaos and starve.
Do you want a gun now (would you like a fighting chance?)
I am not some militia freak - don't own a gun
if you can promise me my government will never become an evil corporate dictatorship - or you can get illegal guns and reg guns out of the hands of all evil people - then I will let you throw them all in the ocean - until then I'll keep my insurance policy in tact thank you and while we couldn't ever fight bombs and missiles, we could certainly take out key commanders.
If you string 6 ifs together each of which has a 50% probability, what's the odds that they all come in? 1/2^^6 = 1/64.
I do own guns. The scenario you want to prepare for is unlikely. But I tell my children to buy land and find like minded people to create a sustainable subsistance community. I gave my M70 Winchester 30-06 to a son-in-law. My daugter's family have 20 acres on the Pedernales River that're overrun with deer and Javelina.
If it goes down the way you think, only a fool will want to fight it out in the dying cities. The Ayn Rand cult of individuals will get picked off one by one because they're idiots. You need community to survive.
hmmm Wall Street Survival Guide? (better and scarier than zombies) better get writing, the money we make off it is not going to be worth much once it happens
I think it will happen pretty much as you described. But probably more like SHTF in slow motion. As things get worse the government will stop gap implement measures to prop up the econmony. It'll probably take years for it to reach the level you describe. However, I've been wrong before.
That was what they kept telling those people in north Vietnam.Just give up and go home ,you will never win.Absurd that they thought different.
Unless portions of the military ( active military ) were to join in with the rightful rebellion - bringing with them the equipment that would be needed.
I Though would much rather see peaceful legal resolution and return of government to the people where it belongs.
yes good point, please don't misunderstand my post also - just want to say I'm not looking to attack Wall Street with weapons, the purpose of Occupy is to prevent Wall Street from taking out the economy, leaving us all to endure riots and total chaos and anarchy. The purpose of Occupy is to prevent them from attacking the citizenry or from leaving them defenseless (and taking away their protection)
Point taken. what i commented below:
I like the idea of using computer and smart phone access to the internet - to bring down the corpoRATs - in solidarity with your protest sign material purchase.
We're a long way from a critical mass needed for armed intervention. It would do more harm than good.
But raising consciousness is gaining ground. Clear, strong and autonomous thought will prevail in the end. I hope I live that long. Though at age 66, I'm resigned to working towards the goal, without the certainty of reaching it in time.
Reflect on what happened when Katrina hit. It could happen in a large city - look at the Rodney King riots and what they did.
All it takes is a community to get angry over something stupid and walla - there you have it - especially when the ones who are causing the uprising think they should have more then they already have.
you know who is the worst - rich people and baby boomers (yeah those f**ers will steal that canned good right out of your bomb shelter and claw it out of your frail shaking hand just like they did with those Cabbage Patch dolls) - they've got UG boots to by dammit and they worked harder than you to snatch it away - they worked much harder developing those snatching muscles - naturally they deserve it - you deserve to starve should have fought harder developed your can snatching muscles and got yourself some Nike running shoes while you were at it and worked on rekindling your flabby abs from all those kids the tax payers pay for while they get to use them as yet another write off!! And when the little darling helicopters can't make it on their own since their brains were raised on mindless sitcoms and daycare drones (also a write off) they get to stay the working man's company insurance policy until they're about 27 ?
according to world renowned economists we are approximately 2 years away from total economic collapse (in which) my scenario easily comes into reality - scary times makes me glad I could never afford to have children - I can't imagine if Wall Street or our government kills the dollar what that will bring or how I would bring a child through that. But they aren't thinking about the children - they're too busy playing games that endanger their lives. Taking away guns isn't happening "for the children" - it's happening because they already know what's going to occur. If they really cared, they'd stop putting their wallets ahead of the country and common decency.
I'm glad that I could never afford children too. I actually love children but this is no world for a child.
Children have never been a priority in this country ( unless you were plantation owner who was purchasing a child slave) and it's a disgrace how we treat them. I watched the Gary Null doc ( The Drugging of our Children) on youtube yesterday for the 5th time and it really sunk in how truly cruel and sick we are. Middleaged mentions this doc in his post above. It's worth watching and I agree with him that if there's any reason to own a gun it's for the reasons in this doc.
I've been robbed, my house ransacked, my cars broken into and I've been bullied and abused by people in my life but it never occurred to me that I needed a gun UNTIL a man moved in next door and began harassing and tormenting me. I had to call the police and as it turned out, this man had served time for trying to murder his wife. I always knew he was abnormal and somewhat crazy but when I reviewed his criminal records, I almost vomited. Anyway, the guy is a psychopath and I mean clinical but he's now free and roaming the earth thanks to a plea bargain and living next door to me. This man is dangerous despite that legally he can't own a firearm. He apparently didn't use a gun when he tried to murder his wife either. Last year he purchased a wife from the Phillipines and there is a young girl living with them too. This guy gets really agitated when he gets bored and he does all sorts of crazy weird things. Anyway, I purchased a gun last summer and installed a surveillance system because I'm terrified of him. I hate having this gun, it makes me feel as though he won. On the other hand, I'm alone and this is my only protection. The Filipino woman knows about her husband and she continues to live with him with her little daughter. What kind of mother would marry a man she's never met and include her daughter in that ' transaction' as well? As far as I'm concerned, she nothing short of a greedy opportunist who cares nothing for her daughter - no wonder she came to America. It's sickening and I can't do a thing to help that child. The man/neighbor makes them bow to him after he has manipulated or harassed one the neighbors. I have video of this. Oh and the little dog that lived there is now suddenly missing. No surprise. He used the dog as a prop to attract women and he also bought a BMW to do the same. Neither exist now.
I like the idea of using computer and smart phone access to the internet - to bring down the corpoRATs
True but that also requires extensive knowledge of computer science - guns are the great equalizer, a lot of us aren't knowledgeable in this and just learned to program the VCR - and we already have laws that say we can have guns vs the interweb; is uncharted and they're very busy putting a leash on it and pre-pre preventing any inkling of using it in rebellion of authority or control - like with Aron Swartz. Though I do believe in right to bear hackers, we don't yet have it in the constitution. Registered Hackers?! They can manipulate and decode systems and put them back together as long as they don't damage them in the process or use the information for illegal purposes. They can only disseminate information they find that is illegal or which poses a threat to the nation or the citizenry. I'm really liking this idea as long as they stay out of my computer, but since both Apple, Google, and the Government have the right to my privacy and I can't keep them out of my computer, I say right back atcha!
Freedom of speech - but I was also thinking of just regular internet social communication sharing good articles programs legal all and legal action opportunities. Till whistleblowers are really safe and their information is readily available for review - we just gotta make use of what we can.
How are people with guns and limited ammunition and provisions who have no desire to be organized into well regulated state militias going to protect anything from a government with more arms and manpower than any other government in history???
Limit gun ownership to those who are willing to accept the 2nd Amendment responsibility of ensuring the security of a free state through enlistment in their state national guard (making it the pre-condition for any additional enlistment in either the armed services or law-enforcement) and much of the problem will be solved. The 2nd Amendment enjoins the right to keep and bear arms with the civic responsibility of ensuring the security of a free state. Those who reject such a responsibility are not only undeserving of any right to keep and bear arms but are by virtue of such a lack of responsibility a danger to the security of the state. Give the majority of the gun owners a choice between bearing a patriotic civic responsibility with keeping and bearing their arms or not having their arms at all and you'll see them readily give up their cherished firearms, such patriots that they are.
Sorry, the SCOTUS has ruled twice that private gun ownership is protected under the 2nd amendment.
As far as gun owners having weapons to protect themselves from a tyrannical government. I think that is a factor in why guns are so popular, especially with AR and AK owners. Paranoid? Maybe, but it’s still true. Gun owners distrust the government as much as you do.
The one's with brains don't buy that shit. We mistrust the corporations that own us and everything else. We want our government back from them but they have the power and can buy more guns and shooters than the lunitic fringe can imagine. Small arms are useless at this stage of the fight against evil. Before we can fight 'em we've got to make the gun nuts see who the enemy is.
very true - I am very afraid of the populous having guns they will have them aimed squarely at teach other - they feel the economy is going to crash and want protection against the anarchy that could create. If there are riots then they might actually need them. And racial divides in this country have definitely made people lose site of the actual problem (on both sides) - but there have been times when people have come together like after 9/11 - maybe Wall Street will finally get so out of line they will finally unite the masses
“maybe Wall Street will finally get so out of line they will finally unite the masses”
It was called "class consciousness" by Marx. It could happen but I wouldn't count on it.
The sad truth is: most people, including the clowns who run our circus, don't know that the real economy is about how we feed, clothe and house ourselves. I've been ranting for years about the collapse you fear. [see http://www.agkaiser.org ] What's needed is not just guns to try to survive in the chaotic city. No one there will have the food, so shooting them will gain you nothing, though it's better than being shot by them.
What you need is an alternative economy that can support life. That means alternative community that will act for its common well being and security. Most individuals don't have a chance in any case.
I agree with you that’s the more fanatic gun folks who think they will need to protect themselves from the government. But they’re more of them than what people think.
As far a gun owners agreeing with you on who the enemy really is. I think they know. Just like liberals and conservatives generally agree on what the problems are, but differ on the solutions and methods to deal with the problems.
They used to say, "If you want to roast an Irishman you can always pay another Irishman to turn the spit."
Their money is their power. We need to take away their power. Taxation of the rich is the way to do it. A transaction tax on stocks and bonds will eliminate a lot of financial abuse and raise some of the money we need to win the real fight.
But build your retreat.
If you look at the "popularity rating" of our government what does that tell you. People aren't buying firearms because they want to own more - they are buyng them because they don't trust the government.
I know people who owned one AR-15 but because of what the government has in mind - they went out and bought a few more. In addition to that ammunition is flying off the shelves like crazy.
People just don't trust the government - that's the bottom line to what's going today with "firearm purchases".
They said in the news 250,000 background checks were made last month - and the NRA membership grew by over 250,000 - people just don't trust the government.
The governments priority is in "restricting law abiding citizens" when in fact the problem is with "non-law abiding citizens". That's where the focus nees to be placed.
A gang banger was on the radio today talking about the "gun control" nonsense as he called it. He said if he wanted to get a firearm he wouldn't be going to a gun show to get it -
What does that tell you -
Very well said. The only thing I can add is in the past two months there have been 5.5 million background checks to buy weapons. It was on one ABC or NBC. Didn't keep the link. Also it's estimated that 40% of all gun purchases are done by individuals and no background check is required.
All I can think of is the American people are gearing up for something.
BJ, let's talk about that 40% number being banttered around by the left. The best I can find is it comes from a survey done over 20 yrs ago of a whopping 257 people. Nonetheless, private sales are sales of USED guns. If I sold a gun to someone and it was used in a crime, the existing paperwork would bring the cops to my door. I would then have to explain what I did with it. Not something I, or many responsible gun owners would want. I would NEVER sell a gun to a stranger at a gun show. It is impossible to know how many guns are sold privately, since well, it was PRIVATE. They may as well say 1 or 99% and be just as close to reality/
You may be right about the 40%. It's a number I've read so many times I assume it's true. Fact is since these trades are not registered anywhere we can only guess. Having said that, I believe the 40% number.
As far as private gun sales and purchases go. It’s quite common. In my state, there’s three local and statewide online gun sales sites specifically for individuals to buy and sell guns. Sellers require the buyer to produce a valid DL, some require a valid CCL, and most won’t sell to anyone who doesn’t “look right”. Most sales are face to face or done through an FFL. No, it’s not fool proof. But it does provide avenues for people to buy and sell guns.
For instance, I only have one gun purchased through a gun shop. The rest from individuals. I always get a written bill of sale, with photocopied DL and CCL. I will not buy or sell from someone who doesn’t look right. I recently did a gun trade with a neighbor. If the new background check rules pass It would be a hassle, but nothing I couldn’t live with.
Any dealer sales be it gun show or internet must be done thru an ffl. As you say, private parties can do in state sales without one, As it is, there is a growing suspicion that the FBI is not following the law on NICS background checks and are already building an illegal database of gun owners. The bg checks the are illegally retaining do not have the serial number, but they know who has a gun. Gun registration is an important first step in gun confiscation. I read somewhere that when the UK did this, they only missed 8 guns. Their confiscation was easy because they had already had laws in place requiring gun registration. 40% is total bs and it disheartens me to see you prove the old saw that if you repeat a lie long enough everyone believes it.
Call me paranoid, but I will not register my weapons. I view it as a precursor to confiscation. That seems to be the consensus on my gun forums. Fortunately this is not on the radar at the moment.
I don't know if the 40% of all guns purchased are done by individuals and no backgound check is required.
I think this is hype. I say this because of the thousands of people at the gun shows have to show ID to make a purchase - I have seen very few "individuals" selling firearms - ususally if they do they are WW II vintage or older.
Of course I could be wrong I'll research it.
You may be right about the 40%. It's a number I've read so many times I assume it's true. Fact is since these trades are not registered anywhere we can only guess. Having said that, I believe the 40% number.
Amendments can always be amended. Rulings can always change.
Not likely in this case. I suspect you already know that.
Not much is likely in politics but things do change and it's almost always a surprise of what does actually change.
If a national guard member disobey's orders it's treason and there are repercussions for that - you can't work your way to a revolution by chaining yourself to the tree they would to stake us to.
So what if it's treason? Wasn't it treason in the Soviet Union when a single soldier in a tank refused an order to dissuade protestors? Wasn't it treason over 200 years ago when a bunch of state legislators decided to declare their independence from their own country that they were already at war with?
Either a revolution is going to take place among trained and organized people or untrained and unorganized people calling themselves revolutionaries are going to be slaughtered without a thought by the soldiers of the most trained and organised military on the planet (provided the revolutionaries don't surrender first once they run out of food, water and ammunition).
This was a great post,thanks.
THOSE WHO CAN – DO
THOSE WHO CAN’T - RANT
1►
learn as much as you can about the REAL numbers that prove the REAL solutions
2►
demand a plan:
http://www.youtube.com/user/maigcoalition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Za8SOVuGHs&list=UUu4Q7iE0z1Jw7yUjs56dvXA&index=1
alex jones – without his straight jacket!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XZvMwcluEg&feature=endscreen&NR=1
3►
WRITE TO CONGRESS:
find your congresspeople
house:
http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/
senate:
http://www.senate.gov/reference/common/faq/How_to_contact_senators.htm
VP Joe Biden, Gun Panel, 1600 Pennsylvania Av, Washington DC 20006
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Dear ............................:
[ Y.O.U.R...I.N.T.R.O...H.E.R.E ]
While some people may want to confiscate guns, here is a much more feasible approach. It will not solve all gun problems, but it will
reduce the number of guns
and that will reduce the number of dangerous people who have access to guns - and isn't THAT our real goal?
My proposal - for a NATIONAL gun law for all guns & owners:
My four points are SIMPLY based on seeing a logical parallel between cars & guns.
Please consider advocating these four steps below to help America with our gun disasters:
1►
all gun owners must be licensed & tested with all guns they own and pass a written test.
2►
every year, you must prove that you have gun liability insurance &
be background checked and prove that your gun is properly locked when not used.
3►
as the owner of a gun, you are legally responsible for what is done with it.
4►
every gun must be registered and tested & a sample fired bullet stored by the police
additionally -
============================================================
Some real 2011 / 2012 gun statistics:
Americans own almost half of all civilian owned guns in the world.
Per 100,000: America: 88,880 guns owned ; 2.97 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: England.…: 6,200 guns owned ; 0.07 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: Austrailia: 15,000 guns owned ; 0.14 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: Canada…: 30,800 guns owned ; 0.51 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: France….: 31,000 guns owned ; 0.06 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: Japan……..: 1,000 guns owned ; 0.08 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: Israel……..: 7,300 guns owned ; 0.90 homicides Per 100,000
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/period-ending-march-2012/rft-annual-trend-and-demographic-tables-2011-12.xls
The above link is to England police statistics - see table D19
Is the nra & its trolls claiming that we will fail, where England & Australia succeeded in reducing gun deaths substantially by legislation?
Statistics clearly prove that the number of guns adds to the risk of homicides.
More complex is the effect of gun laws and restrictions.
When Australia had a massacre in 1996 when 35 people were killed, gun laws were substantially strengthened and a major buy-back was instituted.
There has not been an incident in Australia since then.
Of course, they did not have the benefit of the nra.
In 2011, there were 11,000+ gun homicides in America
In 2011, there were 35 gun deaths in England
For 2011, the average Murder Rate in Death Penalty States was 4.7,
while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 3.1
For 2011, the murder rates were highest in red state regions:
Per 100,000: South 5.5 Midwest 4.5 West 4.2 Northeast 3.9
VERY IMPORTANT:
The 1994 gun "ban" did NOT ban assault weapons.
It banned the MANUFACTURE of assault weapons.
Scalia - yes that Scalia - has ruled the AR15s are NOT “protected” by Article 2
LBJ proposed a gun plan similar to the above 4 point plan
Mn State Capital - over 500 conceal and carry permits. ( no it couldn't be - I mean - no - silly - they were carrying before they could have seen your post's title ) BTW - not issued out to the public - permits of state employees to carry at the capitol. ( politicians carrying - OMG ) Nothing good can come of it - I mean they can't handle a budget.
At the Texas State Capital, if you show your CCL at the door you don't have to go through the metal detector.