Forum Post: QUESTION: At what point do you think it will be time to launch the POWERFUL MASS PROTEST DESCRIBED IN DETAIL BELOW? Going big and concentrating nationwide attention in this one particular spot may be our best move.
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 16, 2011, 3:45 a.m. EST by therising
(6643)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Maybe it will soon be time for this powerful mass protest using these specific tactics: http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/
Keeping in mind the rule that "Power only responds to power," at what point would you feel comfortable with OWS focusing national efforts this way in one specific location?
well..., what's everybody doing next Tuesday? oh, wait... I have to rearrange my socks. Okay... Friday?
kidding aside... Let's Roll! Ready when you are! And ready or not, here we go!
Cool
OWS protesters are misguided, lazy, and they're always looking to be the "victims". Well guess what, were all victims of life. Life isnt easy for anyone, so all you OWS protesters should go occupy a jail or get to work.
Have you met any OWS ers? So many cool people.
Yes cut off the fat cats form making money that they use to pay wages. That'll show em. Woo hoo!
Wow. They sure have you brainwashed. Ever read the book "What's the Matter with Kansas"? It's about people who act against their own self interest and vote against their own self interest. Fascinating. Why are you acting against your self interest and supporting the policies of the 1%. Seriously. What could possibly make you do that? How did you first become an apologist for them?
Because I believe I too can make it to that 1%. Why would I read a book about Idaho?
You ever read animal farm?
Well, just tell me what your bottom line point is. I'd really like to know.
we need to take the PROTEST in a new direction !!! a suggestion...
We need to take the movement in a different direction or it will die down. I have a suggestion:
We need to start protesting at the people who actually affected or had a hand in the financial crisis. We need to get ACCOUNTABILITY from the people who became MILLIONAIRES and BILLIONAIRES out of this crisis who stole and lied to people (example: CEOS from 2008 of companies like Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch, Bear Stearns, Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase, etc) and most importantly the people who worked in government during that time that made sure the banks and wallstreet stayed unregulated who are STILL working in those same positions today making sure NOTHING CHANGES.
We need to protest at these people’s neighborhoods, they are the ones who became rich out of all this and who caused this. We need to find out all the other people who did this because in the end they were the ones who got rich while everyone else lost everything.
Try filling the national mall in DC. The Tea Party was able to do it!
Well, civil rights movement successes came from direct action in many cases . The mall is great an shows POTENTIAL for force. Occupying Capitol Hill IS force.
The mall is directly in from of the Capital on Capital Hill. If you think this set is going to be allowed INTO Congress, you're nuts! They didn't even let the Tea Party in there.
Blocking entrances. Nonviolent civil disobedience on mass scale with hundreds of thousands of people. There are, by definition, always entrances. http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/
I see that going really well! Let me know how it goes.
Will do. We'll send you a postcard.
Polls show that somewhere around 40% of the American public supports the movement. Wouldn't this be a good time to launch the action described above and harness that massive support of tens of millions of U.S. citizens?
My question is, could we GET 100,000 together in the next few weeks?
Hell yes. 40% or more of the American public aupports movement. Many of these (not all but some) are just waiting for OWS to plan something that the general public can get inivilved with. Almost all the actions to date have been small, not massively promoted or focused and not "accessible" by the average person fed up with the system. Americans are really hurting and suffering and there would be no problem getting 100,000 of them to march in DC. Obviously lots of hard work and details . But if properly executed, it's certain to attract that many or more.
It all depends up the messaging to press. Need to tap into that general rage in America and channel it into productive action.
If so, it would definitely make a statement! I would certainly be willing to make an effort to get there, maybe bring a couple friends along.
Take just a moment and imagine it. All entrances to Capitol Hill blocked. 200,000, 300,000, 500,000 participating in massive protest on Caitol Hill. This can happen. Please spread the word.
I have imagined it. It would be impressive and effective. We would need the numbers though, if for no other reason than to keep the National Guard from shooting us all (just kidding . . . I think). A thought, though. I would assume those government buildings have underground passages connecting some of them. You couldn't stop people from getting in but this may be a moot point. I'm still for the idea. Also, on another thread, the OP suggested chartering buses to gather supporters from across the US to occupy Wall Street, and I told him the chartered buses were a good idea but the destination should be DC. Chartered buses could make this plan a reality quite easily.
Yesss, I can feel your anger! Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Your journey towards the dark side is nearly complete.
Literally everything the movement does is "something the general public can get involved with". Go to a GA, join a working group, lend your voice. We are waiting to hear from you.
Cool
Actually support is down to 28% in the latest poll that I saw.
28%, 40%, 50%. Choose your poll. The bottom line is that in 8 short weeks this movement has captured that attention of the American people in a huge way and, in many cases , their hearts and minds are with the movement as well. Now you can nibble at that around the edges, but the fact remains that it is amazing.
So where to go from here? That's the big question. Some say grow grow grow. That curve won't be flattering if we're for growth for its own sake. We need to stand for something, take a position, make something happen. Otherwise we'll fade and be an historic novelty.
If you say so...
Well, what do you think? Where do we go from here?
Home. To work. And to the voting booths next November. Other than that, anything you guys are doing is not helping your image! But by all means keep it up and waste the few decent arguments and grievances that you have.
Holy cow. You would squander all the energy and support and just go home. What good reason could you possibly have for this?
Because you're now embarrassing yourselves and everyone foolish enough to come out in favor of this movement. Real change happens at the voting booth, you clowns just seem to want to destroy things.
Do you just randomly puns on your keyboard to come up with these comments ? I have no other explanation for how foolish you sound. I know you don't want to come across that way. I know you have a good heart. Let it be your compass. Let it chose you.
Wouldn't a successful outcome of the protest described above be that Wall Street's power would be checked?
And couldn't this mass action also help lead to eventually having a national general assembly and running our own 99% candidates for congress?
Is it time to focus national / international attention in one specific location with a mass protest (100,000 people +) in the next few weeks?
If you have all these people and support, why are you waiting to use it? It sounds more like you are trying to appear bigger than you really are.
In 8 weeks or so we've come pretty damn far. Stay tuned. Fasten your seatbelt.
There are only so many on the left you can utilize.
Left? What do you mean? You think this is a leftist movement?
The entire World is convinced of it.
I think that "Black Friday", the day after Thanksgiving, would be the best day to call for nationwide action. Most people already have the day off. It's also a fair push back to the "consume more" message that have come to define the holidays.
Cool
What nationwide action? Disruption of the economy?
Seems to me this is old fashioned thinking, a belief that at some central place there are "levers of power" when, in fact, the problem is everywhere. My suggestion to everyone on this list: join a GA. If you're not near one, start one. That will clear up a lot of illusions and get you truely involved.
And what would one plan at these GA's? I'm asking sincerely. I realize you're saying that the mindset is the answer and that unified we can make decisions from position of unified strength rather than demands from a position of divided weakness. I get all that. But eventually you also have to DO something other than occupy spaces and resist police when they try to evict and eventually you need to stand for something other than unity. You have to start taking a position, planting your flag in the ground. If that's old fashioned then call me old fashioned. I'm idealistic but I also want to see us harness all this energy and good will and make it count for something so real people on the ground have better lives. Right now, you're letting Wall St and Washington off the hook. I'm being very serious.
No individual can make a social movement go in any particular direction, especially a social movement with no defined or charismatic leaders. Regarding drugs, Nancy Reagan once said, "Just say no." That, is, I think, where OWS is regarding injustice. It is in a position to "just say no" and not much more. It really can't say more for a number of reasons. For one thing it is too small really to be taken seriously, which is one reason why the police response (really local mayor's responses) is so astonishing. Almost makes one think of conspiracies from above. Where are they getting there orders? There are already pressures within the movement that it raise specific demands (not an especially healthy development IMHO). I suspect this tendency will grow as the movement does. If the movement doesn't grow then it doesn't really matter much. But I think it will because it is responding to real, objective problems. Unemployment is real and doesn't show any sign of turning around soon. The mortgage crisis is real. Whether or not the student debt crisis is their own fault doesn't make it any less real or any less a drain on our economy. All historical indicators are that when wealth begins to accumulate too much at the top, that is not a good thing and it was one of the indicators that led to the Great Depression. The American military is overextended. Even some Pentagon officials have come to this conclusion. People debate about the environment, but the weight of opinion from knowledgeable scientists suggests that global warming is quite real. There is a systemic crisis that I personally don't think is solvable with one demand or a list of demands. It's like asking Louis XVI to solve the problems of French society. He was the embodiment of the problem. Same is true today of our system. We can't expect Congress or the White House to solve the very problems they embody, which is precisely why it makes no sense to make demands on them. They are the problem. With Congress having a public approval rating of only 8% the public instinctively understands this even if they have yet to figure a way out. OWS still has minority support but it has considerably more support than does Congress.
I'm as cynical as the next guy, but anybody who spends more than 24 hours consecutively at an OWS encampment would find something really astonishing. Sure, it's utopian in the sense that it's hard to see how it could be ramped up to serve a whole city, much less a state, a nation or the world, but one does see a level of cooperation and empathy that is virtually absent outside OWS.
I've spent plenty of time at Zuccotti Park. Loved the vibe. Met great people. Totally impressed. The G.A.'s are great. All this is fantastic but not an end in itself as you seem to imply.
I think you're throwing the baby out with the bath water. Yes, the bath water is dirty. So let's carefully lift the baby from the bath, drain the water and begin again with the baby intact. The baby is democracy / the republic. Radicals like Thomas Jefferson authored the American version of it during a momentous time.
Revolutionaries fought for it. Our great grandfathers, grandfathers and fathers defended it. Men and women involved in various movements (including the civil rights movement, women's movement, Native American movement, etc.) gave their time and energy to keep it honest. Labor movement has worked hard to keep it fair.
Many have struggled. We are struggling now in an heroic way, following a great legacy of revolutionaries to keep it honest and fair. We haven't yet earned the right from the legacy of our ancestors to toss it all out. We can't toss it until we have a clear vision for what will replace it.
We can't be so transfixed by technology that we assume we can make a grand new world order out of the relationships created by social media. Why not use them, harness the power of the new collective consciousness you describe to remake our republic? We should form national general assembly and run our own candidates while at the same time occupying and transforming the market place. This baby is beautiful. Please don't throw her out with the dirty bath water.
To put it another way, just because somebody steals your bike doesn't mean you have to destroy the bike. You just need to remove the rider.
Let's remove the rider. Let's use active strategic nonviolent tactics ala Gene Sharp, Martin King, Jr. and Gandhi to transform this world. We can do this!
The American revolutionaries fought for several years before they really had a clear idea of where they were going. That's the nature of rebellions. They don't necessarily have a solution when they start out. They just know that the status quo isn't working for them. Even after the formulation of the Declaration of Independence it took several years of experimentation for the American revolutionaries to clarify (to themselves) exactly where they were going. The civil rights movement went back and forth. From school desegregartion to desegregation of specific facilities, to a voting rights law, to basically leaving the black under class in the dust.
You're suggesting that the existing system is basically sound and just needs to be patched up in certain ways. Many supporters (perhaps most) of OWS believe that. Quite a few (including some of the most articulate, central and active) don't. That's the nature of OWS as a movement. It's basically a coalition of reformers and revolutionaries, or perhaps liberals and radicals. I think that is a good thing, though I would put myself in the radical wing, though I think if either tendency gained dominance at this point, that would be the end of the movement. It would either move toward radical sectarian irrelevance or liberal ineffectiveness. I personally believe that ideologically, it is the balance between these two tendencies that gives the movement its strength ideologically. Some people at some point will probably begin to raise demands, but that is not the nature of the movement as a whole.
I think it's not just a matter of tactics (nonviolence), but of what the movement wants--which I think is democracy and I think that a very strong case can be made that the Constitution is not a particularly democratic document. As to what could replace it and be significantly more democratic I think it is premature to raise that.
OWS goes to at least one demo every day about all kinds of things. Labor contracts, stop and frisk, bank fees, etc., etc. It's really the organizing center for a number of single issue movements. Which to me seems to be working just fine. I think that even many conservatives are bound to be really astonished if they see some of the footage of what cops are doing.
Time for humanity to rise and shine.
Yes. The actions of the last week have raised national attention. It's time to focus it on something specfic...the money.The politicians are owned by the 1 %. They pass legislation on the behalf of the corporations and lobbyists who have the money and who fund them, what you or I want, poor slobs that we are, doesn't matter. Perfect example: do you want robo calls on your cell phone? Do you know anybody who does? That doesn't stop lee Terry of nebraska from sponsoring a bill to allow that. They have some excuse about clarifying current FCC rules but guess who is backing the bill: the banks, mortgage companies, the Chamber and Student loan processors. Congress gets rich while in DC trading on the inside information they have concerning what is going down (see Hoover Institute report and 60 minutes last sunday.) Then they make more money when they leave by becoming a lobbyist. If we want our country back we have to get the money out of Washington. Money is power right now, OWS arose out of that fact. The 1 % has the money and they get to set the agenda and the rest of us suffer. Read Gene Sharp's work. It's been the bible of revolutions across the world. We need to overthrow an "economic" dictator. the 1% and their financial influence and get our democracy back. Use the last weeks police actions to get out of the tent and work to mobilize the masses against the real enemy: the money and it's influence. It drives what is being done to the rest of us.
Occupy Capitol Hill
Protestors need to start going door to door across the nation to educate the masses and provide them some tools that are simple in how they can get involved. The media is not going to help this movement at all so by doing it in person it will have a bigger effect.
King and Gandhi would like the door to for part but I think they would strongly disagree with the statement "media isn't going to help with this movement at all.". One of their prime methods was to cleverly get the mainstream media to carry their message. That's how they both won. Essential . We ignore the power of that to our peril.
Ithe press is the animal. It's our fault, in my view, if we don't feed it :)
Uh..you already tried that...EPIC FAIL
Wrong. Haven't tried that.