Forum Post: Game Theory
Posted 13 years ago on Sept. 29, 2011, 1:42 a.m. EST by gawdoftruth
(3698)
from Santa Barbara, CA
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This movement is very real and is already teaching others all over the world the value of strategic peaceful protest vs. UK which has already outlawed any and all protests, marches etc.
1995 my goal was to meet people in other countries so they would know that we are not all war mongering psychopaths, worked out very well, many women came here and visited me from all over the world. 2002 switched to see how long it would take the psychopaths to start using serious behavior modification on citizens to get them to hate other citizens...lol..that was my Orwellian phase
really.. its that bad in UK.. wow..
yup, sad but true, many politicians worldwide, that don't know what else to do are starting to use despicable social manipulation tools, not good at all, very scarey
I had seen a story about the UK working on a law for a social networking sites kill switch for whenever protests popped up.
wow
Yep works well with the crazy camera system they have across the pond
duh L lalalateral jumping right into the mud huh, first some decisions/conclusions must be made to insure our starting point is viable. Considering that in our society they didn't even tell the audience what the miracle mathematical formula was in the movie A Dangerous Mind because they feared the results to their corruption and war mongering/secret societies should the simple cooperation/harmony perspective be applied in society to any serious extent.
So defining a starting point would be related to what our goals are, do we work on how a bill passes through congress or resource distribution systems and processes after the overhaul.
My suggestion would be, of course this is my personal perspective based on my beliefs that most of the crazy shit we see happening has been done by abusers of US power by office holders with self esteem or moral bankruptcy/greed issues, for the sake of time use the equilibrium strategy and force cooperation based on moral guidelines and fairness to all of humanity.
Keeping in mind that a fundamental truth is that any organism will naturally seek to destroy any threat to is existence. Which is one of the reasons why the corrupt dum basses build guns and big police state organizations.
There is really not much dynamic about a human being, diversity is enjoyable. As far as other dynamics, its pretty basic, psychopaths don't like human beings so we must prevent them from getting positions of power or authority. And some of the other mentally ill like to stack up loaves of bread and watch them rot as others of their species die of starvation.
Which means we could be very quickly to an action stage and the use of game theory as to the results of selling the fact that there is no reasonable/rational reason for any one human being to amass more cash etc. than they could possibly spend in any amount of lifetimes. Why do they want it, why do they need it and why aren't there humanitarian governance limits set to protect ourselves from the possibility of easily buying and abusing power and authority.
Even applying game theory to this question/situation or any other process of evaluation results in the fact that there is a new huge population based flaw in our system that has to be dealt with before it is detrimentally exploited.
Of course I am old and impatient.
well, occupying wall street is a game. trying to make positive social change happen is a game. Corporate oligarchy and the grand assorted con scam of it all is a game. propaganda wars are a game. So all of these things can be measured as games and understood via the principles of game theory. Several of the points you make are very good ones. what is the point in amassing a billion dollars? isn't that game extremism? and etc.
absolutely, and since we are at the threshold of being able to independently evaluate huge volumes of data without the interruption of someone inserting their agenda we may actually be able to show others that actually care about humanity how we did what we did and hope it can help them. Not forgetting that the battles being waged now are battles of agendas or greed/selfishness which will ALL slowly but definitely slip through the owners fingers like sand as we unfold truths focused completely on the betterment/survival of a natural human species.
yes, if we can create strong examples and then have people follow them, that can lead to a paradigm shift awakening.
exactly, and it is already interesting who they arrested, how long they were held. It is a huge opportunity to create job security for the gov. boys and girls taking all those videos and doing full backgrounds on the very first days, now watching as new players are taking key positions at OWS.
random picks mostly, none of the people arrested i know of can be rightly accused of any crime, they just attacked random people or people with cameras or people who shouted back.
high % media crew arrests..anyway, what percentage of the crowd would you guess are plants..keeping in mind that now about 35% of US workforce works for the gov?
one in fifty or so, otherwise it would be too obvious. same thing here. good chance somebody in IRC chat with mod powers is a government plant. etc. They are actually all over ... its just being sure. It very well may be that these "red" peeps are from some government or etc, an organized trolling effort of some kind is obviously about to hit.. etc.
yup, every single word is being digested and cataloged. Been working on the web since 1995 myself, they are collecting and instantly cross-referencing/indexing everything. That is another way we are spreading truth and peace.
it would be nice to see some evolved applications of that.
facebook and google are huge dataminers, very interesting watching them manipulate the masses for personal info...go to google, open new email, they ask age or something simple as to not scare people off, then to do quick and easy verify to get the account they ask for phone number...lolololol.phone number they get everything
data minings dark side. but the bright side we don't use. what about data mining for scientific information... solutions to political problems.. etc.. thats what we should be getting into.
in the past I usually personally jumped into the situation and did basic ifthen-goto to achieve the best possible results, if we could fuc** wow, man it would be so much easier, less risky and more reliable to be able to eliminate questionable variables and always have the most reliable facts
plug a more advanced version of wolfram alpha into formal conversational logic and a search engine- and there it is. The powers that be have conspired to prevent such things from taking off on the net.
how do you add formal to conversational logic for everyday use?
good question. First you would study formal conversational logic and then you would see it has assorted applications in almost every situation we communicate in. about 95 percent of human chit chat is irrational, all of the noise and bickering and nonsense could be cut out if a group all studied enough to understand it. There are a few main parts to this, the largest part is understanding the logical fallacies, from there its understanding how to stack a winning argument.
ok thanks
I am going to look into that now
yup, that's why they took out Cuil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuil right... hmmmmm
yup, they wanted a totally real non agenda search engine
they were great, results were great, they got snuffed
just reverse a search engine and drop all catches in self associating file system
yep.. semantics engines.. web 3.0. I haven't tried to bring that up yet till after the wiki.
lots of private citizens are using those tools to get the same data so we can protect the citizenry, it's a two way street
Wasn't that part of the old "Raptor" system? or what ever it is called now.
never mind I miss read the post I thought you were talking about the government cataloging everything
they are cataloging everything, where do you think all that money is being spent look up fusion center
yep that is the new Raptor system
I conclude: agreed, as my 40 years of activism is watching professional strategists dismantle segments while at the same time some of the players underestimate the possible results of their actions. WooHoo this is fun........
I agree and think you allude to an important weakness in our current econometric and business decision-making models - that being a total absence of the consideration of the moral consequences in decision making (I refer here now not only to game theory only but return on investment calculations etc) whose outcome serves to optimize a profit motive exclusively. Examples of decisions reached that should never have been for the above reason include: cigarettes continuing to be produced, continued use of petrol cars etc etc.
awesome you bring that up... in game theory we call that win/ lose games versus win/win games. the current system is a win /lose system- those that win only do so at the expense of those they make lose. Its entirely possible to have a win/ win system, and in order to be a modern or civilized society or an ethical one, it MUST be a win / win system.
I agree: I imagine this and other management / econometric tools would benefit the movement in: 1) understanding how the existing power base make decisions (i.e. under the premise that to know your enemy as well as possible gives you the best chance of beating them) and 2) helping the movement understand the possible moves of the existing power base: this in order for the movement to develop strategies most likely to result in success for the movement
also very crucial to understand game theory for solving complicated problems.
We need a panel of game theorists
glad you think so. so do i.
BOOOOOOO!!!!!
are you booing wikipedia? are you just surprised? having a hard time understanding why game theory is crucially important for us all to think about just now?
Im booing the theory its self. Its used to belittle men.
by all means, i'm interested to have you explain that. ?
It takes a reductionist approach. Using various means of conditioning and behavioral scripting. This works fine if we are nothing more than a compilation of neurons responding to stimuli. However, this does not seem to be the case. Our social structure, interactions, this event relies heavily on our ability to choose.
i don't get the sense that you really understand what game theory is or why its a science. You seem to be using in essence an irrelevant argument. the essential principles which game theory uncovers are quite true and real and useful to us. Reductionism can happen after that but game theory itself does not deny complexity or claim that game models are perfect. You seem to have just kneejerked as usual against a science, rather than understanding that our success hinges on understanding those principles and apply them.
Look this is the reason were in this mess. Theories just like this one. You cannot assign a static mathematical equation to something with a dynamic nature.
your idea that is what game theory does doesn't really hold water. We are in this mess because the science solutions are ignored by anti intellectuals.
No. The issue is Elites try to apply static models to dynamic processes, like this one and Keynesian economics. You dont think the Elites dont use universities as propaganda machines? You are fooling yourself!
i just got done having a long boring argument with a keynesian economist. Not relevant to the present era or to solving problems. Of course the elites do use universities as propaganda machines, that does not change the fact that some of that knowledge is power.
Keynesian economics is a problem. Its our major problem!
You again assume. It is power. Understanding your enemy is power. I made no claim to oppose this.
you made your statements. i'm not assuming anything. keynesian economics is a minor problem because its only very small percent of the economic system using that principle.
You are just wrong.
make an argument to the case. you can't seem to do that.
Central banking, attempts to stabilize money subsequent inflation, printing of money to stimulate the economy... etc, etc all Keynesian
uhm. no. Keynesian economics is an economic theory about economics specifically regarding creating flowpath circles that include the middle class. has almost nothing to do with central banking. Central banking is standard economic theory and in fact keynesian economics is really a left wing economic response to the right wing initial assorted systemic fatal errors. A sort of economics system band aid. Central banking was a bad idea, but it was not a keynesian idea, it was an problem which Keynesian economics sought to fix But. uhm. gee. its always strange on my end to try to understand why people try to pretend they have knowledge when they are ignorant. you know i spent thousands of hours studying all this stuff. .. er.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics
Right, right... Centeral Banking has been around for, however long it has. However Keynesian economics advocates the use of central banking as a means of stabilization.
true. but only because it exists in an economic system which assumes central banking, its just using the tools a different way. whatever. how did i get myself into defending keynesian economics? can't stand the stuff.
Agreed, however this is not what we arguing now is it? You took the stance that these issues were not pervasive.
keynesian economics is one of 50 capitalism cults. Of those, its by far one of the least evil and damaging. I suppose thats like comparing horn sizes on demons. but still.
You still did not address the issue.
this is pathetic. i introduce science knowledge and end up arguing with a moronic intentionally ignorant dumble down thought police sheeple. You are demonstrating exactly the problem. Ignorance, bile, noise, name calling, BS. etc.
Did you copy and paste this? Im not going to knock your spelling, Im dyslexic. This is just a flat out lie. I have not called you a name... etc. Ill get back to you ane make a case in a moment.
no, i wrote it just for you. I'm dyslexic. And i'd like to talk about game theory, not your wingnut anti intellectualism.
Education reform; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_reform http://www1.worldbank.org/education/globaleducationreform/ http://www.education-reform.net/ http://dmoz.org/Society/Issues/Education/Education_Reform/
Curiousity driven Learning http://www.csl.sony.fr/~py/developmentalRobotics.htm http://www.idsia.ch/~juergen/interest.html http://www.childtrauma.org/ctamaterials/Curiosity.asp http://www.csun.edu/~vcpsy00h/students/explore.htm
Types of Intelligence; http://www.macalester.edu/psychology/whathap/ubnrp/intelligence05/Mtypes.html http://www.ldpride.net/learningstyles.MI.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_intelligences
Learning Styles; http://www.ncsu.edu/felder-public/Learning_Styles.html http://www.ncsu.edu/felder-public/ILSpage.html http://www.chaminade.org/inspire/learnstl.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_styles http://www.funderstanding.com/learning_styles.cfm
Student Teacher Ratio: http://www.edspresso.com/?OVRAW=education%20reform%20student%20teacher%20ratio&OVKEY=education%20reform&OVMTC=advanced http://www.edreform.com/index.cfm?fuseAction=section&pSectionID=15&cSectionID=97 http://www.dreamagic.com/jesse/isedurat.html
Anti Intellectualism; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism
http://chronicle.com/free/v47/i15/15b00701.htm
http://www.amazon.com/Anti-Intellectualism-American-Life-Richard-
Hofstadter/dp/0394703170
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0121/p17s02-lehl.html
http://mtprof.msun.edu/Spr1997/TROUT-ST.html
http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/07/26/anti-intellectualism/
https://urresearch.rochester.edu/retrieve/6552/Anti-Intellectualism.pdf
http://www.boston.com/news/local/maine/articles/2007/02
/04/reorganization_plan_calls_for_higher_student_teacher_ratios/?rss_id=Boston.com
What is the purpose of this?
to bring the point home. Knowledge is power. Anti intellectualism is a dead end. Whether you take the time to read or not most people are going to look and see that i took the time to educate you. And are going to see that i tried to talk about something substantive while you objected and pissed time away based out of an anti intellectualism reflex.
Do you think a theory can be both false and predictive?
yes, but thats not really relevant since game theory is about principles which don't claim to be absolute truth just trending tendencies.
Youre right, false was not the proper use of the term.
And again I said, it has its predictive uses. However, its approach is one that reduces a human being for the sake of understanding how to manage him. To this end I oppose it.
dude, it does not reduce human beings for the sake of understanding how to manage... your totally distorting what game theory is- its like your a religious nut ... seriously whats your underlying agenda on this? Are you a christian? why are you anti science?
My underlying issue is its used to manipulate, in a negative sense, people to the advantage of the manipulator. Plain and simple. I believe its propagated as heavy as it is because "the nature of man is what ever you tell him it is". This deals with the lack of fidelity to the truth pervasive in our universities.
pure and simple, that can happen, as with any tool, it can be abused, but that is not what it is for, or what it is about, and you have clearly detached from reality regarding it. It is not propaganda. your belief is just that. a belief. formed in ignorance and without an understanding of what you are talking about. Game theory is in fact misnamed, its actually one of the hardest and most mathematical and factual sciences out there. Its not theory, its solid fact. quit pretending and make believing and belief ing yourself ignorant and bother to be a part of the solution instead of just one more noise people like me have to endure.
do you oppose hammers? nails? saws? game theory is a tool. if we fail to use it rest assured we lose because the enemy will use it against us and we will be like children in adult games over our heads. Why does this fail to register? WTF?
Oh... Look, Im left again repeating myself. I understand the need to understand it. What youre not getting it I think there is a better way to approach this issue.
what your not getting is that you are out of your depth, don't know what you are talking about, and if you had a better way to approach an issue you were obliged to go there first. not engage me in blithering. You can feel free at this late moment to tell me all about it, but get real. I'm the one who has the knowledge, your just trying to sell me and you on staying ignorant.
Do you have another means of contact? Im tired and as you said this is something people may find useful. It may be a good idea to clear the board so they can do just that.
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150409084095833 yes. :)
i challenge you to present any better way to approach the issue. Game theory is a complicated subject, your only making it more obtuse and harder to approach by being conspiratorial and digging in over nothing. You are not helping me to get this moving, not helping me to educate the public, you are not helping.
hammers can be used to kill people. hammers have been used for evil purposes by corproate oligarchy. therefore hammers are evil. Same frigging logic. Game theory is a tool. If you refuse to understand, study, or use that tool, you are only putting yourself in the position of damaging your thumbs trying to get nails into wood without them.
i shouldn't have to be bogged down by this- wtf why can't i have allies with brains? do you even stop to consider that you are harming the chances for success by driving a crucial thread off topic?
Oh no. Im not denying it has ist predictive uses as a model. You have it all wrong. Game theory and reductionism go hand in hand.
its a compass not a destination
no, i don't have it all wrong, you saying game theory is reductionist proves you don't understand it. It can be used that way, but that does not make it in its own right reductionist. Its laughable really. I come in and try to introduce science and people like you show me why you are ignorant and opinionated and will choose to stay that way. you have already decided you know what it is, and that it has nothing to offer you, but you don't know what it is. Your mind is sealed shut- thats why we are losing our asses decade after decade. anti intellectualism. the solutions to all of our problems are in textbooks which all the anti intellectuals refuse to read. Great job, that makes you week and easy to crush and manipulate by the elites who DID bother to read their game theory.
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
Joseph Goebbels quotes
so, everything you are saying is presuming an inevitable end to the human species because we are not smart enough to out smart the slave makers?
No. Policy can be created to deal with these issues. For example, if we had a free market, in the Austrian sense. Proper customer reporting channels. And heal people, corporations, liable for damage done to the individuals, property, etc, etc then we would not have this issue. I think quite the opposite is true. The people are smart enough to avoid what needs to be avoided. However, we have been mislead via the media, the school systems, etc. The fact that people are standing up shows we are smart enough.
very cool, aluminum+fluoride =brain dysfunction. I have a website for all this if you want me to add something that you think will help www.the360tribe.com Me thinks...People are standing up/risking their bodies and futures 1. because they are in a corner and getting seriously threatened. 2. because they are no longer deer frozen in the headlights from the information dump via the Internet that started in 1995+-
the lie here is that you can run around invalidating science and being ignorant and imagine your solving problems or thinking better than science would otherwise empower you.
No the lie here is you have not taken the time to assess things other than that which you were fed in school.
i am an aspie speed reader, who has taken apart many assorted textbooks and transcende such propaganda as a life sport, so again, you fail, because i have assessed things far beyond any mere school, and you don't know me.
Its funny you would say "you dont know me" and promote the use of behavioral scripting ;)
gee, i'm almost impressed that you know anything about behavioral scripting. Diplomacy uses that along with argument and psychology. if your acting nuts, its one tool in my tool box to deal with wingnuts.