Forum Post: From the Tea Party
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 11, 2011, 10:47 a.m. EST by yozzman2525
(20)
from Henderson, NV
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
In order for a democracy to work, people should not fear their government, but the government should fear the people. From Sharon Angle, "perhaps we need to use our second amendment rights"
All hypocrites
Violence is only appealing to those who've never seen any, or those who've seen far too much and are of damaged minds.
I'm simply echoing the Tea Party darling, Sharon Angle, who coined this phrase, right out of the Tea Party handbook.
These protesters are not "carrying" " or locked and loaded", that is more of Tea Party trait.
Oh, I'm aware.
Spoken like a Christian Terrorist Tea Party member, get guns........ This is why we need to keep Christians out of the government, if they had their way we would all be dead and they would have their Atomic Rapture.
I can't support that kind of xenophobia, but if that's how you really feel about Christian policy-makers then you really should consider reading the Rolling Stone article that I cited in this post: http://occupywallst.org/forum/vote-or-else-this-will-all-be-a-pointless-exercise/
A bit over the top, don't you think?
It is quite clear to me that this Occupy Cities movement is nothing more than disorganized chaos attended by mobs of entitled anarchistic brats, cheered on and funded by union thugs and other organizations hell bent on biting the proverbial hand that feeds them. After the treatment of Civil Rights Leader Rep John Lewis, you only succeeded in confirming the brainless -moron mentality that that seems to pervade these rallies. It would seem to me that you should be trying to drum up public support for your cause instead of ridicule and contempt... I respectfully suggest you re-evaluate your tactics and follow the example of the Tea Party, which at least had a clear message, a strong and intelligent argument, didn't resort to public disorder and actually succeeded in changing the political landscape.
It's sad. I'm afraid that most of the kids involved aren't that deep or capable. They've been "enabled" and given a sense of entitlement for so long that they can't even protest effectively now. They just go through the motions. If they make a sad face, then they'll get what they want. They'll need the Van Jones' and other manipulators to tell them what to think and what to do.
You are so wrong about this ... this is bigger then you can imagine.
No, it's really not. It's already losing momentum and is being hijacked by manipulators who will corrupt it for their own purposes which will start to splinter it. And it's being more effectively countered by groups who are more capable of delivering a coherent message. The attention span of the media is very short and you've squandered the opportunity that you had. in another few months it will be down to a brief mention on MSNBC.
You had a chance to take a more inclusive approach to reach out to other more mainstream groups with common concerns but, as usual, the disfunctional mess that's the left can't do that. Still might happen to some degree, but if it does, then it will take a more able group.
There is some common ground check out my site:
http://www.teaoccupyunited.com
These protestors are in the streets utilizing non-violent civil disobedience so that the future doesn't lead to citizens resorting to their second amendment rights. You should be thanking them.
For crying out loud! I'm just sick and tired of making millions of dollars for my boss while he can't raise my pay enough to keep up with inflation. The American Dream is really only a Dream!
That politician said she "hopes" it's "not getting" to that point. It was a reference to the intent of the 2nd amendment which is our final checks and balances. OWS, like the Tea Party, are both going through the process. You address for grievances. You try to reform the system. The majority can group to create a new constitution. If after all of that the government doesn't allow the people their choice, then that's when the weapons come out to defend your liberty from the tyranny. I doubt anybody really wants it to get to that point, but it does benefit us to look at how history has played out in the past, and when we see it repeating, what could happen if we don't change it's course.
OWS should study the Tea Party to benefit their own movement. The Tea Party didn't have politicians on their side at the beginning. No unions, interests, or relgious groups backing them. It was a true grass roots against the system. That's what allowed it's base to swell and strengthen. The special interests only hijacked it later when it's power could not be denied.....OWS could have a similar effect. The problem is it's already been funded by special interests. It's already had liberal politicians endorsing it and speaking at rallies. It already has the union corporation wanting to profit from it. The Marxists are clouding the cry of fair economy with a forced government liberty loving Americans fear.
I'm not a member of the Tea Party but did vote for Ross Perot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q
Non-violence, Patience
Non-violence, Patience
if all guns in the us were confiscated today, you protesters would be mopped up off of the street tomorrow, they know if they overstep their bounds there are millions of "uncivilized hicks" who would raise hell
power doesnt come from the people power comes from the ability to inflict pain
Sadly, yes. We live by the emotions of the only slightly improved form of the latest-common-ancestor-chimpanzee-thing and die by the emotions of the only slightly improved form of the latest-common-ancestor-chimpanzee-thing.
Bad Cop No Donut !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wonder if Sharon Angle realizes that some of us Progressive, Liberals and Democrats are not all peace loving Hippies ? I wonder if she realizes that some of us are armed to the teeth ?
I'm not advocating violence but umm... If this movement were to ever go that far, there are many on the left that would be more then capable of coming to the fight armed.
Anyway, i do agree with the Right on their stance on Guns and gun laws. Love them or hate them... There might be a time you need them.
The world will be a better place when people use their minds to solve problems instead of guns.
So some of you people get paid to be parrots, and like standing on a perch in the taxidermist office, unwilling to believe that sooner or later your next?
wow :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqLMjYT3b4w
The three differences (only) that truly separate the Torah, Bible, and/or Koran are as follows: Eternity, final Judgement, and Jesus Christ. Well "WE" have the first two licked because "No one" can dispute who rules those courses. Jesus is/was a/the key to salvation (FYI that's all folks!). It is incomprehensible when trying to communicate that a few differences, which are the same words (only spoken in a different way), and/or "PEOPLE", can undermine all the rest. Most especially "using" that person (ETC.) to do it. P.S. Any "war" between Heaven and/or Hell "WE" know (as it is written) was really over before it even started, because those that were cast out were (and still are) fleeting. If there is any ongoing war it is between those cast out and humans, and if there is a bet (a.k.a. capture the flag) it is that "man" being mortal (a.k.a. within our limited time given/allowed/ETC.) could not possibly prove that "WE" could rise to the level of those that are immortal (a.k.a. timeless). Man is "NOT" being forsaken by the LORD OUR GOD, HE IS CONSTANTLY BEING STRENGTHENED, FOR SOME WILL NEVER NOT ONLY BOW DOWN BECAUSE OF EVIL, WILL NEVER LOSE THEIR FAITH. There is only one place in scripture where "EVIL" is said to be a living breathing thing (never named). It is what is inside any human (although not all can be blamed on "them"), that would make "US" do such things, that we can/will conquer, and when we do, believe and trust that many indignities may "not" have to be suffered (shared). Maybe if we do "NOT" use capital punishment (a.k.a. kill) those that were wrongfully controlled from within (a.k.a. hold them till they pass on naturally) thus leaving finale judgement where it belongs, and do it with the hope that something known, unknown and/or otherwise may be rightfully returned, not for us (or anything), but because it should have never been taken, we gain more than just "something". Man is the "key" to proving just how wrong those cast out, angels/demons/humans (etc.) were/are and possibly returning all that was wrongfully taken from the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost (AMEN). Ready "GO" (What If? The Band Creed/Album "Human Clay" PEACE).+
your an idiot. let me tell you something. i am not law nor military but i will defend my country. attack my country and i will attack you, period.
There is a theory that americans' obsession with gun is really a sublimated phallic obsession.
hu hu, he said "phallic obsession" :P
Historically speaking (and correct) the "European Aristocrat(s)" have been trying to pull this country (and it's PEOPLE) into every endless imaginable conflict, that they ever could/is at all possible. Where did they get the idea to begin w/ looking into greener alternative fuels (solar, wind, HYDROGEN, ETC.) ? From "US" (?) just talking about it for over fifty years. Instead of under the table deals (in total contradiction of any leadership set course), what do you think would happen, if instead of making promises (a.k.a. wrong deals ETC.) into ensuring that the flow of oil (as well as it's usage ETC.) continue, they would do if "WE" announced tomorrow that since it is clear "that all cooperation has gone out the window", "The United States" has decided to begin manufacturing it's own HYDROGEN (and using "it" just like scientists have wanted) as a main alternative fuel/power source/ETC., by using the other methods (solar/wind/NOT EXCLUDING "IT"/ETC.) to do it? P.S. If a nuclear enriched pellet could run a super aircraft carrier for ten to fifteen years ETC., how much HYDROGEN (as an energy alternative) could that same "PELLET" produce?
A simple ? for anyone (a challenge if "you" will). In looking @ the numbers given as actual fact on any scale, who knows of more people that have lived over 70 (or even till ETC.), compared to how many that "they" knew that have passed on? % wise, WHADDAYA GOT? P.S. Everybody shouldn't have to read dates on tombstones to know which side of "any" scale, went through the floor. P.P.S. There was a report not to long ago, about 4,000 people that were dead still receiving checks, but there was nothing on "where" those monies were really "ending" up (or what exactly was/is being done about that). +
Politics and patriotism? As much as certain people may be in some kind of delusional denial, it's about the establishment of this country, an idea (a good one), not any political party and/or form of government. Proclamation of direction was spoken as true fact. What the H E double hockey sticks are we still doing here? They have life by the short hairs and they are straight up F bombing it up. All this talk of doing away with Social Security (something that shouldn't have been gambled away because it should have never been touched), just what does that exactly mean, doing away with it or calling something else, like just another move for project save own ass? P.S. No you can't take "it" (whatever) with you, why? Because "it" isn't yours. Now if someone would like to go hide in a hole somewhere, good luck (FYI don't come out).
So true, if non-violent, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to support a Presidential Candidate at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
The only hope for this movement, and one I see happening, is to be non-violent and fight with ideas, not weapons.
That's not form the tea party, that's from V for Vendetta.
Hello Tea party. How is your corporate sponsored demagogy going?????
I don't see how shooting people is the answer.
It may be that (the vague and ill-defined) They are subtly threatening to shoot at (the vague and ill-defined) Us.
But someone's going to have to eventually show that doing things the right way will get us somewhere.
Aren't you glad that a group of colonists back in the 1700's saw the value in shooting people for bringing about change? Just a little food for thought. It took a revolution in the late 1700's to break free from a crooked oppressive system. Sound familiar? Just maybe, some are implying that our system is so far gone that it may need to come to that again.
Just maybe those people need to read up on how many years that group of colonists spent attempting to address that oppressive system through non-violent means before war was finally taken up as a last resort. And maybe those people need to read a little deeper about how unpopular the idea of violent revolution was before those years, and how that group of colonists would have had very little support without those years of good-faith attempts at working to reform the system before overthrowing it. Maybe those people want to consider the difference between years of focused effort vs. one month of disorganized, nascent political awakening, and think about the difference in legitimization.
And just maybe those people need to also look at how the violent regime changes in nations outside of America have worked out historically. Maybe those people need to glance over at the long, unstable history of Latin America, or even at the more recent developments in the Middle East.
And maybe those people also want to reconsider their conception of the cost of violence, which they must surely be underestimating, and when it is and isn't called for. Maybe those people need to look at exactly how far they want raw emotion, unimpeded by rational evaluations, to dictate their political actions.
Actually the revolutionary war was spear-headed by a tea party like group called the sons of liberty, who were headed up by samuel adams & they were all about action. Anyone not willing to fight for their freedom are in danger of losing their freedom. The whole purpose of the 2nd amendment to keep and bear arms for the formation of a well-regulated malitia was for the sole purpose of serving as a checks & balances measure to keep the government from becoming over-reaching and oppressive again. "A person ignorant of history is doomed to repeat it."
Please, please, don't you get your history from HBO. The Sons of Liberty were a radical group based in Boston, and their incitement was largely unpopular in the colonies. Their claim to fame is that their incitement convinced the British to lock up Boston, arrest dissidents, seize munitions in New England, and force the locals to house British troops.
So, ok, in their own way, they escalated the conflict. And even then it took SEVEN MORE YEARS to convince the colonies to go to war, and TWO MORE YEARS to convince them to declare independence. A person a little knowledgeable of history is doomed to repeat it stupidly. I suggest we all try not to be that person.
I am well versed in history, and trust me the tea party is the cause to get behind. This movement is likened to the mindless hippies of the 60's. A bunch of rebels with no defined cause. Atleast the tea party know what they want and are taking EFFECTIVE means to obtain it. Occupy is just spinning its wheels and going to go nowhere.
No offense, but you have yet to give me a reason to "trust you," what with your flippant attitude towards violence and your lionization of Sam Adams. I will say that the Tea Party has had effective - one could even say professional - organization, but Occupy is one month old and not backed by career politicos. I, personally, choose to give it time. If it's a choice between an effective PAC forcing the world backwards or a nascent grassroots movement tugging the world forward, let me throw my lot in with Occupy.
I am yet to see a uniform cause of the occupy movement. Everybody that I ask, gives me a different stance of the movement. What is it about and how will occupying wall street get it?
The Tea Party has been successful at gaining political influence because they know how to use their VOTING rights:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/vote-or-else-this-will-all-be-a-pointless-exercise/
The tea party needs to heed what Mark Meckler acknowledged on the 25th of September at Harvard. Or that America needs to utilize Article V of the consitution.
I have a very well founded plan for entering into that. First we must get past the media problem, then the fact we cannot form opinions effectively. Then we will unify and amend properly. Compiled facts on Article V. http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html The need for speech vital to survival to be heard and understood. Revise the First Amendment. http://algoxy.com/poly/meaning_of_free_speech.html
How are you going to successfully revise the Bill of Rights if you can't even manage to get out the vote to prevent Tea Party candidates from getting elected? People who agree with you have a tendency to skip voting. The Tea Party doesn't have that problem and that's why they're a problem.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/vote-or-else-this-will-all-be-a-pointless-exercise/
The tea party is against government participation or interference in the private sector same as the occupy movement. They want more responsible spending of tax dollars same as the occupy movement. Both groups are tackling the same problem through different targets; occupy aimed at wall street & tea party aimed at the government. Work together and don't lose sight of who your true enemies are. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." ;)
What gave you the impression that Occupy Wall Street is against government participation or interference in the private sector?
Out of the list of demands under vote, I counted six that call for government regulation of business or other intervention in commerce:
http://coupmedia.org/the-sovereign-peoples-movement/12-require-all-corporations-to-have-labour-representatives-company-boards.html
http://coupmedia.org/the-sovereign-peoples-movement/17-reinstate-glass-stegall-act.html
http://coupmedia.org/the-sovereign-peoples-movement/18-outlaw-flash-trading.html
http://coupmedia.org/the-sovereign-peoples-movement/20-equal-rights-for-women.html
http://coupmedia.org/the-sovereign-peoples-movement/24-prosecutions-of-the-guilty.html
http://coupmedia.org/the-sovereign-peoples-movement/31-congress-completely-revamp-the-securities-and-exchange-commission.html
Government is what is causing the problems we see in corporate America. Obama imposed fees on the banks, bank america added a 5 dollar check card fee. So, who suffers? The people I've seen on here all seem mad about the government bail-outs that went to the banks. Interference for or against private sector businesses both end up screwing the consumer in the end. The less government involvement the better.
That's certainly a valid opinion that some might agree with, but it doesn't represent the majority opinion around here at all.
I haven't really seen a solid majority opinion. It seems like everybody is all over the board. The only common theme is that everyone here is unhappy with their lives and it's somebody elses fault and nothing to do with their own life choices. I was hoping this could be a movement I could get behind, but it's really just a big pity-party vent/rant fest. Kind of depressing really.
Yes. I came here on Saturday as a potential supporter, and I've been very disappointed with what I've found. I completely agree with that assessment. I've only seen two rough points of general consensus here:
Even my suggestion that people here should consider voting has been mostly shot down by people with creative rationalizations for not bothering to take the time to vote. ( http://occupywallst.org/forum/vote-or-else-this-will-all-be-a-pointless-exercise/ ). Therefore it's obvious that this isn't going to accomplish anything. I'm disappointed.
I'm voting for Herman Cain. He is not a career politician. He grew up poor and pulled himself up by his own boot-straps & became a successful ceo by pure determination and hard work. He is a career problem solver, and ever business he has put his hands to have become more successful for it. He is a mathmatician/numbers guy and I think he is exactly who we need now to turn this slumped economy around. You might read up on him.
Yeah, I did. His plan is to tax the poor instead of the rich, so that's kind of a non-starter for me personally.
Not really, because his plan encompasses medicaid and social security. We are paying more than 9% for that now. The sales tax of 9% taxes consumption, but refunds the cost of basic living expenses to the poor. Plus the jobs it would create by doing away with the capital gains tax for businesses and simplifying to a 9% business tax, would have us back on the path to prosperity in no time.
Under Herman Cain's big idea, the sales tax in Miami would be 16%. That's 6% to the state of Florida, 1% to the county, and 9% to the federal government. If you're a poor person who pays little or no income tax, then a 16% sales tax rate is going to be a significant additional burden. In Los Angeles, the total sales tax would be 17.25%.
Also, levying a tax on all retail sales is obviously going to slow the economy, because if the sales tax is 16%, during a recession, then people are going to avoid buying things.
The best-selling car in the US is the Ford Focus. The sales tax on a $20,000 Ford Focus would be $3,200. In LA it would be $3450. That's a lot. Obviously that's going to slow car sales. And this is a nation-wide sales tax on everything, not just cars.
But the tax being held from a payroll check is cut by more than 50% even though there is an increase in the sales tax, so it's a wash. Plus you still get refunded the portion of that addition 9% sales tax that went toward basic living expenses. So, it's really just an additional 9% sales tax on luxury items over and above living costs, which would make it a progressive tax because the more a person makes, the more luxury items they purchase.
We will convince the movement that using existing law to revise the First Amendment will overcome the unconstitutional misinformation, non information of media. I can't argue with the tendencies you point out, or the tea party strategy. I can only define constitutional intents and logically state that uninformed people cannot vote intelligently. tea party and occupy wall street people ought to be able to agree with that and non eof them address the neglect of media to share truth.
I read the page that you linked to about the First Amendment and I'm flabbergasted. You're seriously trying to rally people around adding "forgiveness, tolerance, acceptance, respect, trust, friendship and love protecting life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" to the Bill of Rights? A right-winger trying to parody this protest could not have possibly have come up with something as futile and unrealistic and just ... funny. If you're for real then reality is truly stranger than fiction.
A right winger can try. They end up trying to support that Americans should not support public respect for communications that assure survival. You are taking the quote, "forgiveness, tolerance, acceptance, respect, trust, friendship and love protecting life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" out of context. http://algoxy.com/poly/meaning_of_free_speech.html Those human attributes are criteria that must be met by speech that will recieve constitutional public support. Consider hate speech is banned, why wouldn't speech promoting love be supported? Show us how you propose to support and defend the constitution.
Voting will do nothing. You will be trading one set of corrupt bought politicians for the next set. We first must remove the influence of the Banks from our Government by Revolting against them until they can not ignore us. We have to fight them with the one weapon we have, our money. We have to stop paying our Mortgages, Credit Cards, Car Payments, Medical Bills, Student Loans, etc. We have to remove our wealth from their hands by selling our stocks, bonds, 401k's, etc. We have to play chicken with them until they realize that we are willing to start a new economic collapse rather than be ruled by their laws that they paid for by buying our Government. Return our Democratic Republic back to the People and cast out the Puppeteer state of Feudalistic Capitalists!
Amen....and thats what is going to happen!
The second amendment is for when the first is violated. We are using our first amendment rights still - right? Thus it is not time for the second.
The First Amendment needs to be revised. Free speech is not enough, obviously if this protest is taking place. The problem with free speech is that speech vital for survival may not be heard or understood. Speech vital for survival needs to have criteria that justifies public support so that it is shared and understood, meaning education. I have a draft revision and a fuller explanation of the concept, which is far older than the USA, here. Through an Article V convention, we can do this, educate, inform and refine opinions; reform election systems and continue to amend properly. http://algoxy.com/poly/meaning_of_free_speech.html
No thank you. I don't want what you are selling because it requires the infringement of the rights of others.
You have the right to speak, not to force others to listen. You want to compel people with the barrel of a gun and rob them to do it.
That is tyranny. It is the problem not the solution. Peace is the solution and you can't spread love or friendship by picking the pocket of someone to hire a person to hold them in a chair to make them listen to you telling about how much you love them. It is - madness.
No where do I advocate forcing people to listen. You have misinterpreted. There is no infringement and you have described none. You have decribed no tyranny and cannot show where I have described such.
Tyranny is here my friend:
How does one have a right to not see that which is being compelled? Where is the right to property in your world where you force things to be broadcast? Where is the right to speech if you supplant speech with what you force to be broadcast?
"Citizens with issues developed in this way, and a relatively small petition qualifying, would have a right to see compulsive state and federal control over network broadcasting licensure in order to compel adequate production funding and national broadcasting to effect the education of the public on given subjects."
That does not say anyone will be forced to watch the broadcast. You are basically advocating that people should not know what they need to survive and that America does not stand for LIFE first. The corporations that are manipulating the minds of generations of Americans are doing so unconstitutionally, their power to do so is unconstitutional. Corporations cannot logically have individual rights and they do which has been used to mislead generation sof Americans to the point where the constitution is severely threatened. Do you think the constitution would disable Americans from supporting and defending it?
Oh come now febs. What do you think re-education camps are all about? You'll be in one and soon. Maybe you can submit a little report as part of your two year anniversary there. I'm thinking rural North Dakota in a tent would be good for you. How about we start with 5 years and evaluate your progress?
It is possible, when severe mental disability is found in the proper interpretation of the written word, which can be done strictly with the right brain, that a special recovery is needed. Within the proposal to revise the First Amendment, if such a problem is found to be as widespread as it appears, that a special series of television shows would be mandated that educate citizens about the Constitution and constitutional intent. Natural law. It's possible because a program called MKultra actually existed, and may not have ever ended. It's possible that citizens that have this problem could have their voting rights curtailed UNTIL they show they can grasp simple natural law concepts and their integration into the constitution. So Febs may have to listen in order to vote rationally or have the right to vote reinstated. Such a program could be instituted upon complaint and those the subject of the complaint would be required to show their responses to key questions. If the responses are wrong, or showing an illogical incapacity, they would need re-education in order to vote, logically and in support of the constitution. It is a fact, we do not know everything about the mind and when we learn more, it is logical to use what we know.
The use of force to violate the right of individuals to their own sovereignty is itself inherently against natural law.
Not only is it philosophically contradictory but its eminently exploitable.
No one here is suggesting "force to violate the right of individuals to their own sovereignty". Your cognitive appraisal is inaccurate.
Mandated education? Depriving of the right to vote based on their opinions?
Sorry how to you mandate without the use of force on others to enforce your mandate? Force the broadcasting of information...violates right to property.
You've got a lot of guns pointed at people who disagree with you in your proposal.
"Depriving of the right to vote based on their opinions" based on their inability to use logic in understanding the constitution. A similar situation exists with felons who lose their right to vote. Their voting can usurp the constitution. The education would assure that they know the constitution and can logically manipulate the simple natural law concepts. The constitution would not disable the people to support it. If conditions NOT accounted for in the constitution threaten it, and their is a logical way to prevent those disabled from acting inadvertantly from usurping it, then such witholding of right is proper. Forcing corporations which logically can have no individual rights to assist in sharing information with the public that enables them to support and defend the constitution VIOLATES NO RIGHT to property that is held within the original intent of the constitution.
"Violates no right to property that is held within the original intent of the Constitution" does not equate with "violates no right of property" - hence the need for qualifiers.
I've thought about "qualifiers", and since allowing mass media to continue with out support for the constitution is basically allowing treason. Technically your point would be correct, because we have not yet amended the constitution removing individual rights from corporate status. The language used simply gives the people the right to "the primary methods or systems of it (speech) shall be first accessible for the unity of the people" and because the people are the ones that support and defend the constitution, IF corporations happen to have made a business in the middle of our unity, well, too bad, the constitution is not shooting itself in the foot to protect corporate wealth. They've made PLENTY on us, hurt us baddddddddddd.
DRAFT REV. Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; Congress shall see that nothing abridges the freedom of speech and the primary methods or systems of it shall be first accessible for the unity of the people with its possible greater meaning through understanding one another in; forgiveness, tolerance, acceptance, respect, trust, friendship and love protecting life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Congress shall see that nothing abridges freedom of the press in its service to the unity of the people; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances or defense of this constitution.
And corporations do not, within constitutional intent have individual rights. And, what you write actually doesn't make sense. All of that is speculation far beyond fact in hand. However, it might come to be. I've described one possible outcome within the speculative conditions described. Accordingly the subject is justified, but for those reasons, and that you are not quite posting cogently, let's leave it there.
This is really about supporting and defending the US constitution by engaging the final democratic control over the republic with Article V. If you support and defend the constitution, in this case YOU MUST op for it (Article V) if you cannot provide other law showing viable alternative. Without that, you are failing to support and defend.
Oh I agree they don't they were originally chartered for a limited amount of time. In fact the court case that "gave" them rights was actually a mistype by a clerk but by the time it was figured out it was cited as precedent and used in appellate cases so was rather cemented in law. Sad that.
Honestly I like the 1st amendment the way it is. I don't support tests for voting rights (already ruled unconstitutional by the SC btw). Personally I much more admire the ideology in the DOI than the Constitution but hey to each their own.
Good, you recognize the constitutional injustice of the court decisions granting individual rights to corporations. Important piece accountability. Thanks! Consider the "Greater Meaning of Free Speech" existed before the DOI and the framers cut up the "Greater Meaning of Free Speech" to extract, "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". I to admire the DOI and need to see the full intent supporting "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" by speech which tends to protect such great value. The issue of voting rights, as I said, will pivot on information we do not have yet, meaning any final position is premature and inadequately based. Again, felons lose their voting rights because the MAY vote in usurpations of the values of the DOI and the constitution. Let time tell.
Febs, get this one thing straight. You have no right to property. Period. The only rights you have are the ones that we decide, as a society, to allow. Thats it. End of story. Period.
It is quite clear to me that this Occupy Cities movement is nothing more than disorganized chaos attended by mobs of entitled anarchistic brats, cheered on and funded by union thugs and other organizations hell bent on biting the proverbial hand that feeds them. After the treatment of Civil Rights Leader Rep John Lewis, you only succeeded in confirming the brainless -moron mentality that that seems to pervade these rallies. It would seem to me that you should be trying to drum up public support for your cause instead of ridicule and contempt... I respectfully suggest you re-evaluate your tactics and follow the example of the Tea Party, which at least had a clear message, a strong and intelligent argument, didn't resort to public disorder and actually succeeded in changing the political landscape.
"Strong and Intellegent arguement," and what would that be?
Perhaps you misunderstood. The movement is about frustration with the present system, where the government and business are in bed. The people, or rather sheeple, do not sleep in that golden bed. Thus the only way to get into the bed is to cause fear, which is exactly what is happening due to the miniscule coverage and mocking by the media, also in bed with gov and bus.
Nobody fears this movement. It's a joke. Everybody around the country is laughing at y'all. Y'all are just pawns of the left, and you don't even know it.
wake up and take a look around....if your not a part of the 1% then you must be a blind man
why are you here then? btw i am the left, not a pawn. :)
The Tea Party missed it's mark, it is simply a right wing movement serving the needs of the Republican Party.
The problems we have today were hatched and conceived on Wall Street. As more people understand how this happened, and how gov and bus are covering for one another, the movement will grow. Currently, banks are acting with contempt by screwing working people with their nickel and diming. Where is the Tea Party?
As working people get downgraded in salary, in benefits, more people will understand this game realizing the government is run by wall street with their friends in the media.
You can only suck so much blood out of the people before they explode. Occupy wall street is the beginning of the fuse, it's a matter of time.
i agree 100%
I am here because perhaps I can dissuade one misguided soul. Convince one person that the road to wealth is paved with hard labor, not government handouts. To defend the rights of people who obtain wealth and to fight against Socialism.
Why are you here?
I am here because society creates and owns the wealth. Society should distribute that wealth as it sees fit. I support OWS because we feel that merit and hard work should have nothing to do with wealth. We want a living wage, not connected to work. Need should be what determines the allocation of wealth.
Yes, needs. But rather than wealth, the word power is more corrrect in the long run. Wealth is okay until we know the difference. The movement needs to have comprehensive strategy that is acceptable to the rest of America. Well, if they are not completely mislead, most will recognize that the use of the constitution to defend the constittuion is a no brainer. Article V has that capacity, authority from the highest level.---------
Congress is very afraid of an Article V.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution "Congress acted preemptively to propose the amendments instead. At least four amendments (the Seventeenth, Twenty-First, Twenty-Second, and Twenty-Fifth Amendments) have been identified as being proposed by Congress at least partly in response to the threat of an Article V convention."
Our first right in our contract is Article V, the right to have congress convene delgates when 2/3 of the states have applied for an amendatory convention.
Article. V.
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
Lots of facts here about Article V. http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html
Society creates NOTHING. Hard work, and toil is what creates wealth. People who EARN wealth, own and control it.
You are espousing ideals that are not in keeping with American values. I do know a place where you might be happy. Try Cuba. Move. Go away.
How do the people earn anything without a society around them to buy the product? How do they keep anything without society and its rules/laws/police/military around them to protect it?
because i want a government for the people by the people. not a government that is controlled by big money. i want accountability for our financial crisis, not free money for the rich.
two questions: who is profiting from the wars in iraq and afghanistan? can you have a socialist government and still have freedom?
You are protesting against the wrong people then. If you want accountability for our current financial situation, look to the man who printed trillions of dollars.
I am profiting from the wars. I sell home improvements to Sailors, Airmen, Marines and Soldiers every day. (I hope).
History tells us that you can not have a socialist form of government, and still be free. Freedom includes the right to property. Socialism is the re-distribution of property.
i beg to pardon, but history tells us no such thing. many countries in europe have had or have socialist governments or coalition governments with socialists. sweden, germany, denmark and switzerland. switzerland is richer per capita than the u.s. and no one has had property taken away from them. i know i live here now and the socialist party is one of the most popular in the country because they do good things for the people, not make money while in office.
socialism is not authoritarian communism.
socialism is social security, medicare, unemployment insurance and workmen's compensation insurance. socialism is people working together to help everyone with most everyone paying for it. its not people taking away your house or suv.
your home improvement business sounds nice but it is making nothing in comparison to the corporations like halliburton who are making a 'killing' off these wars. plus, if we're making so much off these wars why do we have such high unemployment at the moment?
these problems need to be looked at closely.
i forgot to mention that switzerland is about as capitalist as you can get and they have tons of socialists.
IWantFreeStuff, did you know this about socialism? most people thinks its communism but they're very different.
Our capitalist system does work, but it can also be manipulated through influence of big accumulations of money, gaining leverage over the worker. In this case, we had capitalism working in collusion with government bought and paid for, to create a scheme to make money that backfired and ended up bankrupting the players. Hence the players, in order to live another day, went to the government, for some "printed money". So here the losses were "socialized"
If banks had done what they were supposed to do, and not sell their mortgages whole sale to a hungry wall street, willing to buy anything to package, this downfall would never have come about. The de-regulating of Glass-Steagall, enabled this latest downfall.
what is hard labor these days? 25-40 hours a week at McDonalds or Burger King with wages of $8 per hour? or is it working for Red Lobster or Olive Garden as a waiter for $2.15 per hour....is this our reward for hard work? Doesnt sound like it to me!!!!!!
Yes, but after flipping burgers, you learn to work the register. Then one night the manager asks you to do an inventory. Soon you are the manager, and you save enough to buy your own franchise. Then, while in Hawaii, you rely on another young burger flipper to take your inventory.
That's how the real world works.
very naive, i wish it were so easy
LOL Easy no. That, my friend is why it's called 'work'.
It takes time, dedication, loyalty and a bit of luck. It really does happen every day. Look around. Who's money is that on Wall St? It's mine, and your parents. People from all over, who worked hard and took risks with their money. Some lost, worked hard, saved, and tried again.
That's the meaning of life. ;-)
my parent's are dead, so no money there. i'm 56 and have worked all my life never been unemployed unless i took a vacation between jobs. but your naive assertion that you can simply work you're way to the top doesn't happen very often. possible yes, but often no. i don't know if you're aware but many ows people want jobs but can't find them because the economy is shot to shit
Ray, you suffer from the same disorder I do, impending Geezeritis, accentuated by chasing my tail, the american scream. My dream was simple though, a 3 bedroom rail road attached house, an old car, and enough money to keep the hounds off of my back. In retrospect, I worked too hard, went to too much school, should have sown more oats, and lived in a 2 bedroom home.
However, I did like my job, and when I was ready to go to work, there was plenty out there, not like today. This kids are getting screwed, glued and tatooed, but perhaps it's a good thing, they won' t develop Geezeritis so soon, as they won't work much and only afford a one bedroom flat, good enough for video games and sowing de oats.
Many OWS people want MY job. A job that pays well, for little work. They can have my job. Just put in your 20+ years in the trades, then use all of your connections, charms and brass to take the leap.
Sheeple. :-(
i'm sorry i didn't know your job was one of the ows demands! please let me know who did this and i'll see what i can do to correct it.
Ray: Your sardonic wit is just too much for me. I'm going back to werk. :-)
Money, money, money.
BTW Ray: How's the condition of your house. Need any repairs? Gutters? Siding? Winter's coming. Get your home in shape now.
you still haven't responded to the socialist stuff, did you know that?
we do need some insulation.
My apologies.
I thought I made it clear that socialism involves the redistribution of wealth. In order to redistribute wealth, a government must confiscate it.
You simply said that nobody would take my land. I disagree. If I don't pay my taxes, the government will take my land. Therefore in a socialists society there is no protection of private property. (Yes, I believe our current form of government is socialist.)
Have you considered spray foam insulation. I've been selling quite a bit of it, and the energy savings are phenomenal.
the european socialist model doesn't do that. the u.s. is a blend of different systems from fascist to socialist. spray foam is not environmentally friendly so thats out. do work in switzerland? thought not.
ows is after the big fish who've been taking advantage of the system, i doubt you're in that category
btw sheeple don't protest, they eat what they're given
We make our spay foam from soybeans, that otherwise would have been used to feed the sheeple. :-)
Yes, I will do work in Switzerland. Just give me a while to find it on a map. Of course, I may not be the lowest bidder.
Dude. Get real. This is about getting out of mom's basement.
Perhaps you misunderstood. The movement is about frustration with the present system, where the government and business are in bed. The people, or rather sheeple, do not sleep in that golden bed. Thus the only way to get into the bed is to cause fear. It's working as evidenced by miniscule coverage and mocking by the media, also in bed with gov and bus.
They fear uprisings by the youth, who have much at stake here, namely their dismal futures.
Yes, but it is not about the exact mechanisms that need to change. Or laws. Laws DEMAND to be followed, and when dealing with government, no citizens should need to be involved. When they do, it is to fix the gov because it is not folowing laws automatically. It is broken. VERY CORRECT about fear, very good point. Let me add to that. Any response to unreasonable fears can be a problem. Congress fears ARTICLE V of the US constitution. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution "Congress acted preemptively to propose the amendments instead. At least four amendments (the Seventeenth, Twenty-First, Twenty-Second, and Twenty-Fifth Amendments) have been identified as being proposed by Congress at least partly in response to the threat of an Article V convention."
Chris, you are looking at some very valid technical points, however, we have a situation in our country where people only see the simple facts that their lives have been turned around and their sense of security and future are on shakey ground.
The media is doing all in it's power to downplay this movement, which is well overdue, since the magnitude of how much wealth was lost due to the gambling activities, using other people's money, has left this country in dire straits.
The screw ups of Walls street were simply transferred to the national debt, causing credit to dry up, banks to tighten up their lending practices, and put in the fact that we have exported our labor needs to china, created something we have never experienced before, and there is no leadership, nor ideas, just ideology.
This mix of circumstances if allowed to continue and grow worse can only lead to drastic change in the lives of those yet to enter the work force. This is a metamorphasis on a global scale into a new system in the long run.
yozzman writes: "Chris, you are looking at some very valid technical points, however, we have a situation in our country where people only see the simple facts that their lives have been turned around and their sense of security and future are on shakey ground."END Okay, I accept it is time to generalize, people are that way. But turned around means they are scared, operating in fear, . . . and it is not an unreasonable fear that the continues failure of economy could lead a significant portion of the population into serious hardship. There will be no where to hide on planet earth for those that have done this to the conomy, but for now, we must focus on our needs to reduce fears WHILE unifying around the ultimate legal action the people of this continent can take. Article V, now! OMG, media. Which is why I promote revision of the First Amendment, http://algoxy.com/poly/meaning_of_free_speech.html All it does is assures that speech vital for survival is recognized, shared and understood. Free ain't enough.
Chris, keep in mind that you can mess with the constitution all you want, to put law into place with the spirit of making our lives more free from oppression and broadening free speech.
However, the reality is that in economic free fall, those who don't have any hope become desperate, and will first try to go by the book and bring those responsible to justice, while those having great stake in the crumbs that are left will purchase their way out of jeopardy. Yes there will be a few scapegoats to satisfy the anger crowd, but the golden rule applies no matter what the law says, "Those with the gold shall rule"
However, that scene can only last so long, as the unemployed numbers rise, the uninsured rise, those under water rise, the country can fall into chaos.
Right now you are seeing contempt from the Right for those who don't have, and this contempt is actually fear, that is why the press is trying to make a mockery out of a youth uprising geared towards some sort of justice.
There might be an exception to the golden rule you cite, because humans cannot eat gold. We cannot say because these conditions have never existed to the extent we have on this planet. One thing is sure, a few things are going to change. We are transitioning from a false economy, so rising unemployment, rising costs are all to be expected. The way we meet our needs is probaby going to change no matter what. The contempt you refer to appears to be artificially generated by the rights reaction to socialist and communist idealogy. I agree, fear, but it might be structured a little differently than we think. All that is good reason to see that the movement takes a central stance on the most eficient means to the ends that assures the greatest support for rights and freedom possible while solving the problems created by an unconstitutional government.
What you propose is not protest, but insurrection. Take it elsewhere...
If the government is already out for bid to the highest bidder, then it is up to the people to get rid of it. If that is the case, then perhaps insurrection is the answer.
Not conversing with a domestic terrorist, thanks.
It's not up to me, too old, it's up to the youth.