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Forum Post: Fracking Causing Earthquakes

Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 8, 2011, 9:41 a.m. EST by lisa (425)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

You may initially react with, well what does this have to do with OWS? Well, there is a project in NYC to implement fracking in the which could cause problems for the city. The process of fracking is drilling into land putting water and air in the hole to get the gas to rise to the surface to collect it.

With the old infastruture in NYC, one explosion could rapidly spread (like those fires did in San Bruno, California when the entire street was engulfed in an uncontrolled gas explosion).

The recent set of earthquakes in Oklahoma occurred where they ar doing frakking.

http://sincedutch.wordpress.com/2011/11/06/1162011-evidence-that-oklahoma-is-having-a-man-made-earthquake-swarm-induced-seismicity-fracking/

The current proposals for fracking come within 1,000 feet of where the lines are for NYC's water supply. Nationally people sould consider these other things, earthquake fault lines, nuclear power plants and fracking proposed of occuring along these areas.

http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/operating/map-power-reactors.html

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/hazards/

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080421193729.htm

http://www.theodora.com/pipelines/world_oil_gas_and_products_pipelines.html

42 Comments

42 Comments


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[-] 3 points by LNAB73 (82) from Oklahoma City, OK 13 years ago

As someone living in Oklahoma who has experienced these growing earthquakes (in intensity and number)... I'm watching small cracks starting in my chimney. I'm wondering why I have to carry earthquake insurance which will pay little if those earthquakes manage to bring it down one day. I'm wondering why the companies who are exacerbating these earthquakes via fracking have NO financial responsibility for damaging my property? If they drove a company truck into my chimney I would have legal recourse... but if in their pursuit of profit they can destroy the geological structures of the ground beneath my feet, I have none. How is that right... who is responsible because it damn sure isn't me.

[-] 2 points by lisa (425) 13 years ago

http://www.marcellus-shale.us/Hot-issues.htm

People have to wake up to the dangers, it happens in many places, though not all at the same time, that is how they just continue, telling people it's just a fluke incident, when they know all along the dangersof what they are doing. Alaska keeps having deep earthquakes fifty or more miles deep in the ground every day, but nobody will say why.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsus/Quakes/quakes_all.php

Look at the depth in the land of drill, baby, drill.

[-] 2 points by lisa (425) 13 years ago

I'll make it even more simple. Here are the nuclear power plants, and the earthquake fault line maps, go look where they want to do fracking and then tell me there is nothing to worry about.

http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/operating/map-power-reactors.html

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/hazards/

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080421193729.htm

http://www.theodora.com/pipelines/world_oil_gas_and_products_pipelines.html

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 12 years ago

I was looking for a place to post some comments on Fracking.

1) Here is a video where Mr. Josh Fox on Thom Hartmann states that the Fracking industry is unregulated by any or most water safety acts and pollution acts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNxR7TLKrzc&feature=related

2) The Video "Facking Hell" talks about the Marcellus Shale Fracking in Pennsylvania and how impact of Toxic Chemicals and natural Radium will cause cumulative "Spill Impacts".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEB_Wwe-uBM&feature=related

3) Gasland Movie by Josh Fox, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phCibwj396I&feature=related

A) Mr. Weston Wilson states the onus should be on Industry to prove they are doing no harm to citizens (or to the natural environment or our water).

B) Mr. Weston Wilson points out that government should investigate chemicals and processes because its citizens request it (naturally). And especially their should be no secret chemicals.

C) A woman in Colorado in part II of Gasland PL version states when she calls the oil and gas conservation commision about her toxic water, whe is told to get a lawyer since they don't represent the public.

4) Investigation through Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA) http://www.texassharon.com/

5) Rolling Stone Article depicts Fracking having a Land Flipping Scam as well. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-big-fracking-bubble-the-scam-behind-the-gas-boom-20120301

6) Late entry: Cumulative Air Emission is FT Worth, TX, are a disaster according to the Movie Gaslands part 6 PL version. Existing industry has already become a toxic crisis since Bakken Shale is older and more developed for natural gas. Statement from Mayor of Dish, TX states they are 50 times the toxic air pollution level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw163WjT_TE&feature=related

[-] 1 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 13 years ago

What do the people of West Village say? I would think property owners would be concerned about their property values. Why don't you rally them? If they are happy with it let them suffer the consequences.

Most OWS folks can't afford billion dollar condos in West Village....

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 12 years ago

yep

[-] 0 points by jbsurfin (1) 13 years ago

You better go back and study your geological maps.. There is no shale nor NG under NYC. Catskill Mnt.. yes, NYC-NO!!

[-] 2 points by lisa (425) 13 years ago

http://www.propublica.org/article/state-fracking-rules-could-allow-drilling-near-new-york-city-water-supply-t/single

http://nofracking.com/

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/07/state_fracking_rules_could_all.html

The latest draft of guidelines for hydraulic fracturing in New York could open the door to drilling within 1,000 feet of aging underground tunnels that carry water to New York City --

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by stevo (314) 13 years ago

cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo

[-] -1 points by Gawdoftruth (3) 13 years ago

Your pulling stuff from your ass. Fracking does not trigger earthquakes. I'm a Geologist. A good analogy would be to assume when you throw a quarter size rock in the ocean there is going to be a tidal wave.

[-] 3 points by lisa (425) 13 years ago

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/22/science/earth/22fracking.html?_r=2

This scientists disagrees with your analysis. Drilling near fault lines can cause the quakes.

[-] 0 points by Gawdoftruth (3) 13 years ago

Well this scientist, me, disagrees.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 12 years ago

How about showing some reasoning, calling yourself an scientist and then presenting no evidence of your claim, seems to negate itself.

[-] 2 points by lisa (425) 13 years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8H5o6AnwW0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIF-h34_uuQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=lvegHqXj6q8

The fracking degrades the salt layer, it leaves a big empty hold in the earth. If you have a big empty hole, there is nothing to support it within the earth. The natural movement of the tectonic plates in ground where the supporting structure has been removed, leaving big empty holes has to have an effect, don't you think?

[-] 1 points by LNAB73 (82) from Oklahoma City, OK 13 years ago

and that has been our experience of these earthquakes.. not so much lateral movement but more like the reverberation of the ground from a cave in. Much up and down, with a slight lateral movement. What's left for Oklahoma to have in natural events... tsunami and locusts? lol Last night it was FLOOD, SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS, TORNADOS AND ANOTHER EARTHQUAKE lol

[-] 1 points by lisa (425) 13 years ago

Well you know about the Meers fault line under Lawton. I don't think they even calculated how that will effect the rest of the areas. They mostly focus on the other ones that they have known about much longer.

[-] 1 points by Frankie (733) 13 years ago

As per the post above, you're talking about things operating at two completely different scales. Tectonic plates are massive structures that are influenced virtually entirely from within, not from without. That's basically the same as saying you turning on an electric fan influences the jet stream. You might be able in certain circumstances to cause some localized effects but you are in no way affecting the movement of tectonic plates.

[-] 0 points by lisa (425) 13 years ago

Correct that the plates will move for the reasons that they move, but the oil provides lubrication within the layers of rock doesn't it?

If the oil is not drilled into and pumped out, what function does it serve? It must be in there for a reason.

[-] 0 points by Frankie (733) 13 years ago

There is no "function" to it. It happens that, at least in some caes, oil and gas tends to be found in areas where there is faulting. Actually, not found but rather aggregated. Oil/gas formation is not even on the same geologic time scale as are larger, longer patterned structural geologic events like faulting. That is, there are natural formations that tend to cause oil/gas to flow to and be concentrated in certian geoligical formations (where we then tend to extract it for practical/economic reasons), but the formation and the aggregation are two related but separate and independent events. Or maybe a more simple explanation, if you dig a hole, then water may tend to aggregate in the hole. The water serves no particular "function" it's just a simple cause/effect-type relationship.

[-] 1 points by lisa (425) 13 years ago

Maybe science has yet to figure out why God put it there so science thinks there is no reason for it being there.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 12 years ago

There is no invisible man in the sky.

[-] -2 points by integritylive (0) 13 years ago

Fracking is allowing for necessary jobs in a failing economy and a new source of energy for our country. As with any new venture the start up is going to be difficult, but we need this new industry.

[-] 2 points by lisa (425) 13 years ago

If we used solar and wind energy techonology, we could provide jobs and not damage the ground and it's supporting structures. Logically, oil is in the ground to provide lubrication to the rock and layers of rock so that when it moves, friction is reduced. We have no business drilling into the oceans taking it out, and fracking into the land is hardly safe because of the potential for explosions with can rapidly spread all along the line.

Why should we risk this, endangering people's lives, when there are other things like solar power we coud use?

[-] 1 points by Frankie (733) 13 years ago

sigh Oil does not "...provide lubrication to the rock and layers of rock so that when it moves, friction is reduced." If you've ever seen oil as it comes from the ground and understood where oil typically is found, then you might better realize why that's a fairly ridiculous statement.

[-] 0 points by lisa (425) 13 years ago

What is the function of it? Was it just put there to be discovered by Halliburton to make them happy and wealthy?

[-] 0 points by Frankie (733) 13 years ago

What makes you think that there needs to be some "function" to it? Maybe Noah rounded up all of the dinosaurs after the big flood, ground them up in a giant BlendTec blender and the squirted it down into holes in just the right places? ; ) lol

[-] 1 points by lisa (425) 13 years ago

Well Frankie, I believe God created everything, so he must have had a reason. He also put everything where he wanted it, so just because scientists have not figured it out, doesn't mean there's no reason for it. Eventually if they do find out, it will be too late to put it back there and there may be consequences.

[-] 1 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 13 years ago

If you want to find a fracking job, go to North Dakota.

[-] 1 points by lisa (425) 13 years ago

Halliburton is handling that in in the northeast corner of that state in Williston.

[-] -3 points by justaguy (91) 13 years ago

The earthquakes in OK had nothing to do with fracking. Suggest a bit of reading by geological sources rather than media outlets or conspiracy posts.

Natural gas should be a MAJOR component of our energy in the US...more than it is now. Vehicles can be set up to run on natural gas, many people have natural gas already coming into the home for heat and or cooking and such.

There are just so many positives, not to mention the jobs, that have been out there because of the new drilling methods.

Of course, since we don't seem to want to use energy that we have here, we can always just buy more oil.

[-] 1 points by LNAB73 (82) from Oklahoma City, OK 13 years ago

that is incorrect justaguy... the USGS has already conceded that fracking is a probable contributor.
That is exactly what the Oklahoma seismologist who prepared the study, Austin Holland, told the resident reporting the quakes, who mentioned that fracturing had begun the day before at a nearby well. Earthquakes are typically triggered by stresses more prolonged than those found in fracturing, a reason it is generally held in the geology business to cause seismic events of magnitudes less than zero. “These were just normal naturally occuring earthquakes,” Holland told the resident. But out of due diligence, Holland began examining the suite of almost 50 seismic events that followed the 2.8-magnitude quake. The majority of the microquakes struck within 3.5 kilometers of the fracturing well, Picket Unit B 4-18. The quakes were shallow and fit well in time and space with the start of fracturing in the nearby well. The geophysical model fit, too. “The more and more we looked at it, it looked like it was a correlation,” Holland said.

As someone who has resided here for 57 years.. THESE QUAKES are not normal and not the result of any KNOWN or PREVIOUSLY ACTIVE fault line. When solving complex problems, the first thing I ask..is What has changed.. and widespread fracking in the state is the answer to that one.

[-] 1 points by lisa (425) 13 years ago

They plan on drilling along the New Madrid fault zone, the danger to the 14-15 million people who live along there is too great, in my opinion for them to be doing that. Even the Marcellus Shale in Pennsylvania, there is a big fault line, the Ramapo fault that runs fro Pennsylvania thru New York, they will be drilling all thru Pennsylvania. There are nuclear power plants not that far from the fault lines, drilling for gas near fault lines that can rupture, cause quakes where there are nuclear power plants within 50 miles of that provides too much danger to the people on this planet.

[-] 0 points by justaguy (91) 13 years ago

Ok, so what do we do? Leave it all and hope that the federal government can be an investment bank to yet more firms that will fail?

We cannot live by pretending that we can all have everything we want and never take any risk at all. I mean we can, it is in fact what we do.

It is why drilling in the Gulf of Mexico has been severely crippled under Obama, but Cuba, China and other countries are going at it full tilt, or planning to.

That accomplishes nothing at all but putting people out of work, decreasing the amount of domestically produced oil and has other countries that really don't give a crap about what we think, drilling in the very gulf we say we are protecting.

And although my IP address has me from Amsterdam, I live in the USA and live in the middle of one of the major natural gas fields. Around here, people are thrilled to be paid thousands, some tens of thousands from the companies that are drilling. So we can cut that out too then I guess.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 12 years ago

The oil and gas will run out, what is the rush to wast them? We should be using the last of those fuels to build sustainable systems that we need to maintain livable conditions for people.

[-] 1 points by LNAB73 (82) from Oklahoma City, OK 13 years ago

I live in such an area as well ... and ... I don't think we have an alternative to drilling for more (although it is no longterm solution and I suspect is hampering a real and substantial move into alternative, renewable energies). My question is why in the free market can companies destroy my property without any financial responsibility for doing so? If they are going to keep drilling, they need to be responsible for the damage they cause to citizens who have no say in their quest for profits.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 12 years ago

Maybe this could be a point of Law for your side:

Mayor Bloomberg stated that with the right to freedom of speach and protesting, OWS still has responsibilities and could not be allowed to camp overnight. Shouldn't that logic apply to "Drilling Companies".

http://empire.wnyc.org/2011/11/ows-booted-from-zuccotti-park-but-judge-grants-restraining-order-against-nyp/

[-] 1 points by lisa (425) 13 years ago

Why can't we develop green technologies and use non lethal (to land, fish, wildlife, eco systems) methods of energy production? Solar energy hurts nobody, can provide tons of jobs, it is available everywhere the sun shines. If every home in America got solar panels, how many jobs would that create? The vast areas in the mid west could be refuges for wind power because they naturally get a lot of that.