Forum Post: Forgive Student Loans
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 18, 2011, 7:05 p.m. EST by student20111
(93)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Student Loans should be forgiven given that trillions of dollars went to banks. Total student loan debt is around $1 trillion. If forgiven, economy will start growing faster than any job plan currently lost in the political arena.
Part of growing up is accepting responsibility. You signed a contract saying you would pay your loan back because you saw value in a college degree. You could have avoided having to borrow money and just gone to night school to get a lesser job. But you didn't. You wanted that return on your money. Now that you have that return you want someone to make your life easier by magically making your loan go away? Life isn't a free ride as badly as you wish it was. Be responsible and live up to your obligations. Thousands before you have done just that. The fact that you say you are only worried about the current situation tells me a lot.
"You signed a contract saying you would pay your loan back because you saw value in a college degree."
The first mistake of many Americans is the accepted value of college degrees. At one time, education meant the enrichment of the mind through cognitive development and further advancement upon accepted knowledge. Now education is just an institution to prepare you for a job.
I guess it depends , if you get a liberal arts degree from no name university or you get tech degree from MIT.
It is embedded in our childrens minds that they must get good grades so they can go to college, and earn good money. Otherwise they will not be able to afford anything in life. I know this as fact because this is what has been told to my 2 sons. Especially my oldest son, now that he's in high school. The teachers cram it down the students throats all the time.
That's very true! We are told over and over again that you have to get good grades in high school so you can get into a good college. I went to the Bronx High School of Science. It was a Mantra. I'm 32 years old now, on my third higher education degree and about 50K in debt for student loans.
That is because that is what the teachers did, and their friends, and their parents... the teachers don't know any different.
This is the mentality that prepares our kids for upper middle class at best.
Okay ...and? I mean, I agree it is the notion that's been put forth from all angles. Not going to school is barely even in people's minds.
But, that is no reason to forgive student loans.
The classical education is no longer in vogue... its purpose is to prepare a societal tool.
Today, a classical education is available for free on the internet or in a library. Real SKILLS, required for a productive job that has value to society and the wider economy, can still be had for a few thousand dollars at a community college, trade school or through apprenticeships. One can (and should) self-educate - but that education is for your own benefit, and rarely has any market value.
Not entirely true... America still values its artists, its historians, its philosophers, its visionaries. They are vital to the success of this nation and there are countless avenues that each can pursue.
But its a more hazardous road... All parents will recommend to their children a path of prudence, and so, most will choose to more directly engage the machine. And become a tool of the corporation. There are niches that have to filled everywhere... nothing wrong whatever your choice.
Agree that our education institutions are changed for the worse. But there is still value in being prepared for a job. Yes, I understand there aren't many out there. But, having a degree you are miles ahead of someone who doesn't when applying for jobs.
There was a study by several conflict theorists in the 1960s that concluded that a higher degree does indicate higher job qualifications. There have been more recent ones as well ( I believe the 1990s) which noted that numerous industries do not necessarily require college education to be successful at the duties and rather, the industries chose to further highlight stratification and selection through implementing the degree requirement. I will point that this does not apply to every industry and therefore can not be generalized. However, it is a major factor in modern society.
I agree with your point. Many people still think a student loan is the same as house loan, auto loan or credit card loan. It is NOT.
I bought my house thinking the economy would improve and my risk of being 'downsized' would lessen. It didin't, I'm downsized. So, where is the difference. I ask honestly. Help me understand.
I don't think how a house will help you get a better job, higher pay? Buying a house is like betting on the stock market with a longer holding period...
The difference is that an education should not equal a mortgage. Even so, you can always default on a mortgage... you can never rid yourself of a student loan (as per Congress, 2005).
A student loan is an investment in education for your future. It's not the same as a credit card.
What is it then? A gift that Mommy and Daddy should've given you?
It's not because Congress will not permit you to ever default on a student loan which today is privately funded through banks.
Memorize. Regurgitate. Repeat.
Are you criticizing my notion of previous educational practices or supporting my concept of a modern institutionalized education?
I don't believe in institutionalized education.
Good, we need it removed.
I was satirizing modern education's 3-point platform in support of your point.
meh, I would give it...
Standardize. Memorize. Regurgitate. Assess. Track. Place. Repeat.
mine's funnier.
:-P
indeed
Sucks when you get out of school and a multi-trillion dollar industry has tanked the economy and you can't get a job though.
Become an entrepreneur and make money yourself by putting your education to good use. No one is stopping you. What's the problem?
isnt it a little difficult to be an entrepreneur with out any capital? do you not have to have money to invest in an enterprise? when you have no job and not money and lots of debt// just how would you go abou this?
But why are the banks holding onto their funds? Could it be no confidence in the future? Not knowing how Obamacare will affect my business? Regulations that are killing business?
If you don't know how a law that is currently on the books is going to affect your business you should hire a new lawyer.
Banks are making record profits and the last thing they want is heavier regulations. Which makes that the first thing I want.
Yes banks are making a profit. Charging fees for everytime you turn around. But it is also regulations that are killing business.
No, regulations protect consumers. That's what they're designed to do.
You think car manufacturers just started putting seatbelts in cars on their own? No, they wouldn't do it until regulations made it illegal to sell a car without them.
Do some research there brosef!
Regulations like the clean Air act are killing jobs here in the USA. Yes we need to stop pollution but we need to create jobs that are using resources we have right here at home. Coal can be made to burn as clean as natural gas. Natural Gas we have a great supply. We need jobs today.
I don't have any intentions of all regulations being canceled but some need to be looked at and see if they are beneficial or too costly. One of the reasons China can make so many products cheaper is cheaper wages and no regulations.
Our own inventiveness is killing our jobs. It's not a bad thing, just need to adapt.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wired-success/201109/are-jobs-we-know-them-becoming-obsolete
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/09/07/rushkoff.jobs.obsolete/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Z8TR4ToNs
To be totally honest, I don't even think the people who PASSED obamacare know what's in it. I know for a fact that they didn't when they passed it, because that was one of Pelosi's big selling points: "pass this thing NOW so we can know what's in it."
Has anyone besides me ever tried to sit down and read the damn thing? It was almost, ALMOST as stupid an idea as the time I decided I was going to read the US tax code.
I agree: Passed the Bill so we can read it, what a dumbass.
the banks that have most student loans either got bailed out or have special rules written for them that private citizens do not get. They changed the rules to favor them and they now cannot complain when citizens want to change the rules to favor themselves. No moral ground to stand on for the banks.
If it weren't for the bailouts, the banks would have called their loans to be paid back IMMEDIATELY. And if the borrowers didn't have the money...there is something called collateral. That's your parent's home.
I am not saying i don't agree with most of what your saying....but what value? In my case the several thousand dollars it cost me for an associates did 1 thing and 1 thing only. It got me out of a call center and into a pharmacy....no pay increase...no benefits.
Just saying in many cases after the economy tanked these degrees became essentially worthless with the job market tanking.
One more thing - people should strive for better jobs. Higher pay will translate, with some exceptions, into higher taxes collected. Lesser jobs most often pay little to no tax, Hence - forgive student loans. Think about this - who is taking a student loan and why?
The best thing about the student loan thing is that none of these protesters who have student loans would have ever taken out the loan knowing they would not have a job to pay it back. They took out the loan because they thought they would have a BIG fat CORPORATE paycheck to pay it back with....hypocrites!
The problem with this statement is that many want a college education and the only way to access the educational establishment is with vast quantities of cash that require that many mortgage their souls. In 2005, Congress under the Bush admin made it impossible for students to declare bankruptcy on student loans.
It's a dual edged sword and many, I think, were high on prosperity thinking that eventually they would find a way to repay these loans.
Amazing how responsibility only applies to the middle class and working poor, never to the rich. They fucked up--signed lots of contracts, even--and got paid in full by us.
Life is indeed a free ride for some of us. It's time for it to end. Let's take back that money we gave them and give it to our future. Its much better spent there.
Many people signed contracts on the hope that economy will be good when they graduate and they will be able to repay the loans. You are only looking at a scenario which is not going to pan out for another ten years. This high unemployment is here to stay.
This entire thread is indicative of the problem, not the solution.
I don't care what the unemployment rate is at the moment. If you took out an $80k or $100k loan to get a BA or BS, for which the average starting salary is currently $33K, you made a really stupid financial decision. That may be compounded by the current unemployment rate (which BTW for college grads is only ~5%) but that does not excuse your failure to do your basic due diligence. And it certainly does not entitle you to force me to pay our loan (you do realize that 'forgiveness' means you want the government to take my money to pay for your education, right?).
You shoud also consider why student loans are not discharageable via bankruptcy. With a house or a car, if one default, the lender can recoup some losses by repossessing the underlying asset. But they can't repossess your education. This makes your loan extremely risky. You want student loan forgiveness? Then you can kiss any future student loan programs goodbye. No one is going to lend un-collateralized debt to an 18 year old student when that student, upon graduation with no assets and nothing to loose, can file bankruptcy and not replay the loan.
I swear, when I read these arguments on this board I think you all should demand refunds from the universities you attended because they clearly did not teach you anything about history, basic finance or critical thinking skills.
Support the petition for student loan forgiveness act: http://t.co/rEkN8vrG
As a college student, this would be nice. However, isn't avoiding debt and scamming the system theoretically linked to the foundations on which the #OWS are protesting...
Student loans are one of the biggest scams out there
Then don't get one.. Like any other scam.. Don't participate.
That's because the American education system focuses on getting everyone to a college degree. Inherently, by getting everyone into college, we only further bulge the pockets of the 1%'s pockets. If I have learned anything from the Sociology of Education, it is that mass education decreases the value of a degree, invalidates meritocracy, and further argues for conflict theory.
you do know that you only have to pay 15% of your income on student loans.. and you do not have to pay any if your income is less than 14k.. yes.. you can never have anything or buy a house in your name.. but.. at least you put in the effort of getting a degree.. and also.. after 25 yrs the loans are forgiven
Interesting. I did not know that
they do not advertise this.. you must do the research yourself in order to deal with the banks and such.. but the law is clear.. the
Forgive Student loans and fuck over Grandma's saving account?
Not Happening!
I can't see how these two are connected. Can you please elaborate?
You are not really this dumb, are you? Common... Cut the bullshit.
Your student loan has been spent. The money is no longer in the bank so it needs to be paid back. That money did not magically show up for you to spend on an education. The bank didn't just print that money.
The interest on Grandma's saving accounts is supported by interest comming in and etc.
I thought this was a Joke, I saw it on the news and said yea right they can't be that stupid. Then I see it here for real. And the Statement that heads this page. WOW now that is a real Joke. How Tell me How would this create one,,I mean One single job. You think that just because you have a College Educations, and you now have a Free Card this will stimulate the economy? Really? HOW?
Support the petition for student loan forgiveness act: http://t.co/rEkN8vrG
Spending my friend, spending. What do you think the Govt is trying to do with all those stimulus packages - they want to encourage spending.
But where did the money come from?? It comes out of my pocket, my children's and my Grandchildren. And BTW it will come out of your pocket when you start paying taxes.
Too many assumptions dude. I bet I pay 10x more taxes than you
Then pay your student loan and get on with your life quit belly aching.
It was the only thing that worked during the depression. I researched it year by year, and that came through clearly.
cmt? Do you mean the CC Camps. People worked on government projects. It was better to lean on a shovel and take home some change then to stand on the corner and beg for food. Some of us did not read history we lived it.
No, I meant stimulus spending.
First Herbert Hoover tried limited government action, and the depression got worse and worse, until there was approximately 25% unemployment. No "dole", balanced budgets...finally approved loans for homes but it was too late, too little.
FDR did all kinds of (what we would call) stimulus spending, and each year the economy improved and unemployment improved. He got unemployment down to 14.3%, and then apparently agreed to cut back on spending. Unemployment jumped up and the economy weakened. He went back to what he'd been doing and unemployment gradually fell. WWII acted as the grandaddy of all fiscal stimulus, putting thousands of men in uniform (and getting government paychecks) and the depression ended.
But where did the money to fund this stimulus come from? We can not keep printing dollar bills.
It was deficit spending, and it got the economy moving which in turn increased tax receipts. I'm not an economic expert on the period, but there were people frantic about the debt that built up until unemployment got beaten. The debt got paid down by the robust economy during and after the war, and didn't get really big again until the national debt nearly tripled under Reagan, and continued up afterwards.
You do realize that the student loan industry was nationalized under Obamacare? Also, most americans and im saying way more than 50% have no idea how to save money. I work in the financial services industry (yes one of those evil evil bankers). I see the failure to budget even with other financial professionals.
Our generation (I am 22) has confused WANT with NEED.
Also our generation must be the most economically ignorant b/c some of the things said on this board are astounding. Debt forgiveness creates a moral hazard that is an incentive for risky behavior. If you forgive my debt why won't the next guy take out more debt EXPECTING to get bailed out?
Support the petition for student loan forgiveness act: http://t.co/rEkN8vrG
why did you bank get bailed out? if your bank did not get bailed out do you think you would have a job right now?
The Bank I used to work at did get bailed out and I was still in college during the bailouts so I would be unaffected.
That proves my point. JPM, GS, MS, etc got bailed out and are now bigger than ever taking more risks expecting to get bailed out again. Why would you encourage this?
I don't encourage anything. My request is simple - forgive student loans. If your mommy and daddy paid for your school, good for you, now you are debt free.
No, not unless you can declare your degree invalid.
http://coalitionforsocialchange.wordpress.com/
My 13 pt plan has this
Support the petition for student loan forgiveness act: http://t.co/rEkN8vrG
Finally a STUDENT LOAN FORGIVENESS ACT: http://tinyurl.com/7akydbk
Student Loans should be forgiven given that trillions of dollars went to banks. Total student loan debt is around $1 trillion. If forgiven, economy will start growing faster than any job plan currently lost in the political arena.
This article came around. I think it's awesome and OWS should take some ideas from it: http://www.esquire.com/features/young-people-in-the-recession-0412
Grow up. You borrowed the money and no one forced you. Pay up.
I went part time while working full time and finished my engineering degree with no student loans.
I really have no sympathy for those who CHOSE to go deeply in debt for a degree which in some cases has little economic value.
Support the petition for student loan forgiveness act: http://t.co/rEkN8vrG
Bloomberg News, sent from my iPhone. Parents Snared in $100 Billion College Debt Trap Risk Retirement
Feb. 3 (Bloomberg) -- Terry Williams borrowed about $7,000 to earn a degree from Spelman College 38 years ago. For her youngest child, a sophomore at Belmont University in Nashville, she will take on almost $40,000 in parental loans.
Williams, a 59-year-old widow who runs a nonprofit that helps black families navigate private-school admissions, is watching her retirement savings dwindle as she pays college bills for her three children, Bloomberg Businessweek reports in its Feb. 6 issue.
“I’ll probably work until I fall dead at my keyboard,” the Decatur, Georgia, resident said in an interview.
It’s not just graduates who are staggering under the weight of educational loans. Parents, too, are borrowing record amounts to put their kids through college, jeopardizing their retirements. With the housing crisis, many families can no longer avail themselves of one popular option for financing university studies: taking out a second mortgage.
“A plunge in home prices has erased the equity that many homeowners had just a few years ago,” said Greg McBride, a senior financial analyst at Bankrate.com in North Palm Beach, Florida.
Federally backed educational loans to parents, at an estimated $100 billion, make up 10 percent of the $1 trillion in educational loans, according to data analyzed by Mark Kantrowitz, publisher of the website FinAid.org. The problem is more acute at some private schools, such as Colgate University, Trinity College and Sarah Lawrence College, which have smaller endowments and can’t offer the same financial aid as Harvard and Princeton universities.
‘Robbing Their Future’
“Parents are facing an economic crisis because they are borrowing too much for college,” said Rick Darvis, executive director of the National Institute of Certified College Planners. “They’re sacrificing their current lifestyle and robbing their future retirement.”
Loans to parents have jumped 75 percent since the 2005-2006 academic year, according to Kantrowitz. That works out to an average of about $34,000 for those with loans. With interest, the figure rises to about $50,000 over a standard 10-year period. An estimated 17 percent of parents whose children graduated in 2010 took out loans, up from 5.6 percent in 1992- 1993, according to Kantrowitz’s estimates.
The rising levels of parental debt could ripple through the rest of the economy. By the time parents are in their 50s and 60s, they should be saving for retirement instead of taking on new liabilities, said Joseph S. Messinger, a certified college planner and president of Capstone Wealth Partners Ltd. in Columbus, Ohio. Servicing those loans becomes harder as parents stop working and their incomes decline.
‘A Lot of Money’
“A lot of money is going to the university and college systems,” Messinger said. “It’s shrinking people’s dollars to do other things.”
Most of the parental debt is in the form of Parent Loans for Undergraduate Students. PLUS loans, which are government- issued and carry a fixed interest rate of 7.9 percent, can be used to cover the entire cost of tuition, room and board, and other expenses -- minus any aid secured by the student. While parents must pass a credit check, no collateral is required. PLUS loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.
Marvin Weinberger, 58, a self-employed inventor of hand tools in Havertown, Pennsylvania, owes $105,509 in PLUS loans for his two children. Most of that has gone to cover the almost $49,000 a year in tuition, fees, and room and board for his daughter Ariela, a junior at Muhlenberg College, a small private institution in Allentown, Pennsylvania.
‘Looked Hard’
“We really looked hard at the possibility of taking her out of Muhlenberg,” said Weinberger. “It was such a good fit and made her feel so welcome -- academically and socially.”
His son David, a sophomore at Rochester Institute of Technology, is receiving some financial aid. Both Weinberger children took out federal loans of their own.
Muhlenberg never tells “a family they have to take a PLUS loan in order to come to Muhlenberg,” Chris Hooker-Haring, dean of admission and financial aid, said in an e-mail. “We simply inform families about what we can provide.” The final decision is left to the family, he said.
Many of the schools with high levels of parent loans rely more on tuition and fees than on endowments. At Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut, where annual tuition and fees are $55,450, parents who took out federal loans borrowed an average of $27,000 in the last academic year, according to the school. At Sarah Lawrence in Bronxville, New York, where the annual cost of attending is $58,716, it was about $20,000.
Tuition Increases
Tuition and fees for private, nonprofit, four-year colleges have increased to an average of $28,500 for the 2011-2012 academic year, up from an inflation-adjusted $16,276 two decades ago, according to the New York-based College Board, a nonprofit group whose members include universities.
The trend shows no sign of abating. On Jan. 28, Princeton University in Princeton, New Jersey, announced that tuition and fees for the coming school year will rise 4.5 percent -- the school’s biggest increase in six years. Days earlier, the board of trustees at Cornell University in Ithaca, New York, approved a 4.4 percent cost increase for undergraduates in its four colleges not supported by New York state.
“Colleges will keep doing this as long as the loans are available and as long as people keep applying,” said Laura J. Clark, director of college counseling at Fieldston, a private high school in New York. “If there’s a drop-off in the number of applications in the middle-income group, that’s when colleges may moderate prices or come up with new strategies for helping people pay.”
Obama’s Plan
President Barack Obama last week proposed linking federal aid to a college’s ability to control tuition costs. The plan calls for increasing campus-based aid only for schools that limit tuition cost increases and penalizing those that don’t.
The way parents are paying for college has changed over the past two decades. As recently as 10 years ago, financing college through a second mortgage was more easily accomplished because homeowners had equity from which to borrow, said Bankrate.com’s McBride.
Pamela Lauzau, 63, put three children through Boston College and took a $400,000 second mortgage on her house in Alexandria, Virginia, to do so, which funded about two-thirds of the cost. The family didn’t receive financial aid.
With her husband unable to work because he has dementia, she took a job as a school bus driver for the health insurance and sells real estate. Her youngest child graduated in May.
Second Mortgage
“I don’t see a time when I’m not going to work,” Lauzau said.
This month, Lauzau expects to close on the sale of her house. She won’t realize a profit because of the second mortgage.
“Our advice to families is to know what you’re getting yourself in for,” Robert Lay, Boston College’s dean of enrollment management, said in an interview. “You have a level of sacrifice that’s going to be required to send your son or daughter or to a private, expensive university like Boston College.”
He said families will see a return on their investment. The school’s estimated cost for this academic year is $57,000.
Parents aren’t facing the financial reality about their ability to pay off these loans when they have a smaller income stream, Capstone’s Messinger said. They are relying solely on faith that they’ll be able to pay the money back, he said.
‘Too Easy’
PLUS loans, in particular, are “too easy” to get, he said.
Terry Williams, the Spelman graduate, said her own parents didn’t borrow any money to send her to the school, a private, historically black women’s college in Atlanta.
She took out parent loans because Belmont University was a good fit for her son, Kramer, and he could be near his sister at Vanderbilt University. Belmont, a private Christian college, costs $34,000 per year. Her son has already borrowed about $14,000 in federally backed loans.
“We understand and greatly appreciate the sacrifices families make in order to send their children to Belmont,” David Mee, associate provost and dean of enrollment, said in an e-mail. He said the university is “committed” to controlling costs.
Williams said she didn’t anticipate how expensive a college education would be.
“I’m definitely hoping that the sacrifice is still worth it,” she said.
To contact the reporter on this story: Janet Lorin in New York jlorin@bloomberg.net .
To contact the editors responsible for this story: Lisa Wolfson at lwolfson@bloomberg.net Bradford Wieners at bwieners@bloomberg.net
Find out more about Bloomberg for iPhone: http://m.bloomberg.com/iphone/
As much as I would LOVE to agree with you because I'm heavy in student loan debt: No. I must and will pay back the money I borrowed with interest. I think it is best to tell universities they can't offer "would you like fries with that" degrees to people who borrow. If you pay out of pocket, go right ahead and major in philosophy. The rest of us that borrow will major in something that is marketable like accounting or engineering.
What about endlessly rewarding educational bureaucrats that charge us higher and higher tuitions knowing that well-meaning people and politicians will then push for higher and higher student loan guarantees and grants. Why don't schools charge what we can afford, not what we can afford PLUS what they can squeeze from others?
I would like that too. The education costs have been out of control for quite a bit now and there does not seem to be a quick fix for that. Look at the tuition costs for out of state and international students...
the problem is not student loans, it is the huge expanding bubble that is tuition fees, funded by the US government in the form of student loans. This is just another bubble that will collapse once everyone starts defaulting on their student loan debt.
I agree that the cost of education alongside health care costs are spinning out of control and may be the next bubble.
You fucking piece of shit From: WilliamPitt Date: May-09-10 03:34 PM Just to make sure you see this before it gets deleted, here you go:
===
Explain how you have the time and money to post to DU from your fucking car, you poor fucking victim.
Leave my mother out of your comments, or meet me in the street, you fuck.
Period. End of file. Do it again, I fucking dare you.
Yes, I fucking said it. Let the mods delete this. I fucking hope you read it first, you piece of shit.
Fuck you. I'll PM you my address. Say that shit to my face. I swear to God, any time, anywhere.
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Any chance you're anything other than a chickenshit fuck?
I promise I will drop you if we ever meet.
I fucking promise.
Be sure to share this with the Mods.
If you dare, say that shit to my face. I am not hard to find.
You suck. And I will wipe you out if I ever get the chance.
Share this with the mods, please.
Support the petition for student loan forgiveness act: http://t.co/rEkN8vrG
People if your going to establish common ground with the rest of the 99% your going to have to stop talking about student loans. And, I had one, took me 20 years to pay it off, but I finally did. But, most people don't want to hear these sob stories. It's like the guy on the news who says he hasn't been able to find a job for 2 years. No one believes that. What he means is he can't find a job where his degree program will be a qualification. People want guys like that to quit whining and get a job at Pizza Hut or something.
I fully understand people spent all this time and money on a degree and the day you graduate the economy is in the shitter. Do whatever you need to do to support yourself and your family, but trying to get most of America to feel sorry for you is not going to get you or the movement anywhere.
I agree- absolutely- forgiving student loans is a good idea. You are right, forgiving these loans will stimulate the economy with a jolt. Especially private loans (commercial loans). Many people don't know the difference betwen a governent student loan- which is a Stafford loan, and then there is a 'private loan'. A private loan comes from a commercial lender. The private loans that were given out in the past decade were at very hight interest rates (8% to 10%). Students only borrow private loans as a last resort. Anyway, These loans have now ballooned. And, they usually have many fees, which they only add to the top of the loan, and that too, gets interest. Students end up having to borrow a private loan when they reach the maximum of Stafford loans- then they have no choice. Let me know if there is a petition.
Very well said. Indeed people tend to think all loans are govt backed but this is not the case. Right now with banks borrowing from the govt at 0% you would think they will adjust the student loans interest rates but alas this is not happening. Some action is needed. I wish people posting on the website to express some opinion as you do but most seem to only want to pick a fight over a topic they barely understand.
If you want to establish common ground with the entire 99% your going to have to stop talking about student loans.
Well, how many of them have student loans? Lets start there.
What about creating our own schools and courses and by review and rating the courses we can all contribute and keep the costs down while offering cutting edge real world programs that employers are looking for.
I would really like to see someone develope a curriculum for Critical Thinking, Communications, and Debate that would begin in first grade. Just filling heads with knowledge doesn't help that much. Kids need to understand how to think for themselves. If you get a kid to be completely over the fear of speaking in public before they hit their 8th birthday, you got something.
It is possible to teach rules of good debating to kids, (attention span is your only enemy here), I would bet this would also reduce bullying and a whole list of other negative things.
Another good thought. I like creative thinking. I think private colleges like University of Phoenix tried to do just that only to have been found commiting fraud recently. While your idea has theoretical soundness I am a little sceptical on it materializing.
Are you crazy? well on second thought they will be when the dollar collapses. Better have a way to farm and feed yourself and some goods to barter with. Buy cigarettes even if you don't smoke. People that smoke will trade food or water for them or new books for you to read. With the new bail outs for the banks coming now. I fear this new bail out will be the straw that breaks the camels back.
I'm very, very sympathetic to people who are struggling with huge debt.
However, it is just completely unrealistic to think that 1 trillion dollars in loans can just be forgiven across the board.
The govt is in no position to take on another trillion dollars in debt.
But it's gonna be interesting when this 1 trillion dollar ed loan bubble bursts and turns into the next mortgage crisis.
It is certainly headed that way.
Paying down student loans should be funded from the college and university foundations
Paying down student loans should be funded from the college and university foundations
That's an idea. Maybe with some help from the government. I doubt all colleges have this much endowments though
The Economic Revolution Requires a 25$ withdrawal from your BOA checking account on January first, 2012 -- pass this on!
The revolution has begun and will become obvious to all on JAN 1, 2012: If you want to see it, simply either close your Bank of America account, convince others to do this, and together we can collectively crash that bank -- as a demonstration of neo-democratic rule: that is, choosing to use the internet to collectively organize our powers and actions just as corporations and wealthy millionaires do - collectively. Pass this on and remind everyone you know to either close their account before January 2011, or to withdraw as much money as they can afford -- even as much as a 25 $ -- on January first: any removal of funds from that bank will contribute to our struggle against the 1%, against the deregulated greedy corporations, and the multi million and billionaires!
The resistance of the 85% is caused by the 15%; the 99% by the 1%.
~ The American Sociologist
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I have nearly 40k in loans and you don't see me trying to slink away from my duty to pay those loans. Student loan terms are about the most forgiving type of loan out there with the exception of dissolving that debt in bankruptcy. Read your contracts.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Saturday-Night-Politics/194650163906116
How would you feel if those were forgiven though? Would you go and buy something else with the $600-700 monthly extra cash you have available?
I would actually feel like I was mooching off the system. Would I like another couple hundred a month? I don't think anyone can deny that but I owe a debt for a service that I made use of, it is my responsibility.
Still didn't answer the question...
You are right, i would probably spend the extra cash. Again I don't see how that changes my argument.
The problem here is NOT that student loans should be forgiven. The problem is the bought and paid for politicians were goaded by the banks into making student loan debt not dischargeable in bankruptcy. We live in a nation where debtor's prisons do not exist. If you are financially incapable of paying your debts and still survining at a basic level the allows you a discharge through bankruptcy. But, if your debt is student loan debt this does not apply to you. What needs to happen is not a free lunch through debt forgiveness but a parity with other debts. Student loan debt should be dischargeable in bankruptcy if someone who has student loans can't find a job which allows him/her to pay back the debt while still meeting his/her basic needs.
This could work too. Although many companies these days have requirements for new employees to be in good credit standing, without having defaults in the past couple of years.
True, but any bankruptcy, for any debt could cause a problem with getting a job. The problem with asking for forgiveness is that we should then give forgiveness for all debts. This would not be fair to anyone in the system as it currently stands. Thus, the solution should still be just to allow bankruptcy for any debt which was not procured through fraud. In other words, if you charge a bunch of stuff on credit cards and then go to file bankruptcy that debt should not be dischargeable.
I try to stay away of forgive all debt because the reasons why a student loan is taken is structurally different than any other loan. I also do not like the idea of bancrupcy (pardon my spelling)
This article says it all. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/14/goldman-sachs-for-profit-college_n_997409.html
Interesting article. The investment banks are behind the push for charter schools to replace public schools in NY and NJ right now, too.
They want a nice fat slice of that government pie.
Trying to get a group started in Westchester. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Westchester/274093539289447 Join if you'd like an pass it on.
A society full of educated people leads to a prosperous economy. Google the Massachusetts Act of 1642.
Okay, just to check your logic: Because trillions of dollars went to the banks, student loan debt should be forgiven?
Is that the logic we're rolling with? I mean, could we not also say: Because trillions of dollars went to banks, all mortgages should be forgiven?
Or
Because trillions of dollars went to banks, all car notes should be forgiven?
I mean, at the end of the day, the American taxpayer bailed the banks out. Not a bunch of students, so by logic shouldn't the taxpayer be getting something as opposed to freshly minted students who haven't paid into the system?
At the end of the day there should be NO bailout or forgiveness. For students or banks. Grow up. You signed the document and didn't complain about the terms -- that's on you. Would you have complained about your terms had you found success and wealth? Didn't think so.
Support the petition for student loan forgiveness act: http://t.co/rEkN8vrG
As of 2010
Estimated Wealth of U.S.A. is 56.8 trillion Estimated population of U.S.A is 280,218,971 people for 2011
If wealth where evenly split, everyone would have an estimated $2,026,986.24
1) Even before the economic crisis, the average starting salary for someone with a degree was $33K. If you took out a $100K loan to get such a degree, you made a really stupid financial decision.
2) The reason student loans are not discharge-able in bankruptcy is because the lender can’t repossess your education. With a house or a car loan, the lender has the ability to mitigate losses if you default, specifically, they can take possession of the underlying asset. If discharge were allowed, you would see the student loan market disappear, because no lender is going to give an 18-21 year old with no assets and no job an unsecured loan.
3) Government backing of loans was implemented to provide additional protection for the lenders and ensure loans were available to students. Like most government programs, this resulted in unintended consequences such as tuition rates skyrocketing in response to vast amounts of money being available.
4) Though government backing of student loans was an ill-conceived plan, in implementing this plan the government was treating you like an adult. They ensured that loans were available to you. Your responsibility was to understand the terms of the loan and evaluate the costs and benefits of taking a loan (see number 1). If you are unable to make these types of adult decisions, then I suggest you also petition the government to raise the voting age.
5) Student loans are generally not taken out all at once to cover the entire duration of one’s course of study. So you had many opportunities along the way to re-evaluate your plan. As the economy worsened and the jobs market was drying up, you could have stopped taking out loans and forged a different path. If you chose not to do this, then you made a bad financial decision.
6) Amnesty does not make the debt disappear. It simply shifts the burden to your fellow citizens who seem to have enough financial distress of their own without the added burden of paying for your education.
Let's buy our homes without going through the bank. https://www.wepay.com/donate/84579
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United We Stand ! Let's Build it Together ! Yes we are Us . . .
how about going after the universities that sold you a worthless degree, The real money went to the universities, the banks got a small % interest. How about capping student loans to a level of 2x the projected salary for the anticipated degree, putting the loans back to local banks, where you have to explain why you need the loan and how to pay it back, not the automatic government laons they have now.
Hmm, I never said that my degree was worthless. Not sure where you picked that up from. But I see a little point in your post about the cost of education and the ability of modern students and people to afford it.
Would you mind expanding on that?
I have 35,000 in student loans and a Masters Degree. I took them with full knowledge of my actions and fully aware that I was not guaranteed a job upon graduation. I am currently unemployeed. I hold no grudge to my government or school for my decisions. Also, no one seems to want to point out the inconvenient fact that the banks have paid the bail-out money back. I will pay mine back too.
Hmm, without a job to pay your rent, your monthly payments and other bills, how are you planning on doing that exactly?
I said I am currently unemployed, but I have enough savings to last a couple more months. If I have to move into a smaller house and take a low-earning job later, then so be it. (Did I mention I am a single father who even though I have the kids 50% of the time am forced to pay my spouse child support AND alimony even though I am unemployed and she is employed because I theoretically am supposed to be able to make more money than her?) I am also advertising my skills as a handy-man and have just received my first request for work. Craig's list is nice as it offered me a free way to advertise my abilities.
The main problem most students face is that they acquire only a single skill and expect the world to adjust to them. They expect that the economy will create a job because they have a skill instead of reality, which is that they gain employment by offering someone something they want. Colleges have over-valued their degrees, but the world changes and there no reason to believe that just because a field was growing a few years ago, it will continue to grow.
I had to work to put myself through school and have taught myself (among other things) mechanics, carpentry, flooring, drywalling, roofing, computer programming, web-design, gourmet cooking and a load of other skills that I can sell.
Also, because I have good credit and live in a society that allows lending, I am able to draw from a line of consumer credit to cover purchases that will help get me through until I can find more gainful employment. When all else fails I can declare bankruptcy and I won't end up in jail for not paying my debts.
Over all this a wonderful world to live in and my ability to borrow money against the hope of a better future is part of why this world is so wonderful to live in.
I can also go back to school and get certified in a field that is actually hiring, which is what I plan to do. Because student debt is so lenient, I won't have to make payments when I am in school. I may be 50,000 in debt when I am done, but that is less than 1/3 of a small home, so that's not so bad really. I'll also have another skill to add to my list of labor I can sell.
Problem: You can declare bankruptcy if you can't pay your bills. But you can't declare bankruptcy on student loans. This is due to the banks goading the politicians into changing the bankrutpcy laws a few years ago. If a person in this country can't pay all their bills and support themselves at a basic level of living they should be allowed to discharge their debt through bankruptcy including student loan debt. No person should have a free lunch but at the same time no person should be forced into a virtual debtor's prison by their student loans if they can't support themselves on a basic level and pay their loan debt at the same time.
I am befuddled by this post. Why did you take so much loan? What kind of degree were you pursuing?
I acquired two degrees, a Masters and a Bachelors in six years. I supported a family of 4 the whole time. I also received grants to help pay tuition. My degree is in Phylogenetics, which was a rapidly growing field 8 years ago, but is now contracting as most necessary positions are filled and far more students were graduated than there is currently funding to create new positions. I am not angry about this. It is not a necessary field for society to have. It is an intellectual pursuit.
So would you be happy if your student loan is forgiven?
No, because my student loan is an asset that I purchased and need to pay for. Those that loaned me the money are paying their employees with the interest on my loan, and I do not want to financially burden their company such that they have to lay people off because I didn't want to pay my loan. I would like to see the possibility of student loan bankruptcy, but flat our forgiveness is irresponsible. They could also lower my interest rate or give me more forebearance, but there are already economic hardship forebearance programs in place. In short, student loans are very lenient and flexible the way they are and provide a source of financing for public education that is both sustainable and equitable if not abused.
Absolutely. And student loan forgiveness is a NECESSARY remedy because the student loan debt cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.
Of all the debt one could have, the student loan debt is the worst because the terms are so draconian.
Student loan debt has created an indetitude servant society.
I completely agree. Something must be done.
Just refuse to pay it.
Nope, then you are declaring default. You do not want to do that.
Considering that universities have no cost-check to hedge their tuition, and federal subsidies essentially means hyper-inflation of tuition, I totally agree. This is something that should have been done in 2008 during the crisis. It is long over-due.
Not only that, but cost education is rising 2-3x more than inflation.
I'm sorry if I didn't clarify well, when I said inflation, I meant the cost of education is inflating.
I agree. I would only say the word "forgiven" should be replaced by "erased" or something along those lines. There is no guilt in this particular form of debt, hence no need for forgiveness.
The bank wasn't the problem and you know it. You signed a contract and you took a risk. You got that education (hopefully) and that bank helped you have the opportunity to do it. You will get through this. , My grandfather told me once "sometimes you have to come down a step to come back up". So if people are really need a job go look into the agricultural industry. They are paying damn good money for intelligent people. If you know Spanish your going to make a great living for yourself. I worked on a farm out of college making $20/hr until I found a better job back in the cities. If temp jobs pop up take them, employers like that approach because if you suck they don't have to fire you, your contract just expires, but most of the time they'll hire you full-time. Good luck on the job search!
Nobody said the bank is the problem. But so it happened it is the problem.
Hmmm let me guess, you are a student? With student loans?
Well I dropped out and will be going back. And my brother owes about $75,000. I learned from his mistakes. Which is why I dropped out.
This is the true heart of this movement - everyone for themselves, trying to get the most for #1, and taking every opportunity & advantage to do so. This is human nature minus morals & values. God help us if you get your way. You will destroy us all & you still won't be rich.
Why does everyone feel so sorry for the poor, they at least get subsidized health insurance, food, education, etc. After I get done paying for all of those things my middle class a$$ has even less money, food, or medical care than some of the poorest in this country. I make to much for help, and not enough to feed my family. We can subsidize people who have no desire to do anything with their lives, live off welfare, do drugs and yet we cannot subsidize those who go to college, make straight A's, and are actively working to better themselves. Something is very wrong here.
My sister who doesn't work, has 3 babies out of wedlock, has more money than my 40 hour week, college educated, self. How is that right? Why do I have to give all of my tax money to protect people like her and her rights and not expect anything back from the government. Why do I have to take care of the wealthy and the poor and get nothing because I am middle class. How is this fair to me, why can't I get a bail out. Oh wait, its because I am middle classed screwed in all aspects financially. I want some of my hard earned money back in my time of need, I earned it, I payed it, I deserve it more than my sister who gets it. Let me feed my family as well as she feeds hers.
Furthermore, even if you don't agree with relieving students of their loans, you should at least rally to help them have their interest and fees forgiving allowing them to only repay the cost of the actual classes they took to better themselves. Banks should not be allowed to charge interest rates that are more than mortgage or auto interest rates for education. People wonder why Americans are falling behind in education, this is why, it pays to be lazy and costs to much to better yourself. We are going to be a socialist welfare nation if we don't change this, and protect our future.
Hey, if I'm not going to get my social security, I should at least get my college paid for. BTW I did four years and only took out $20,000 in loans and went to Northeastern University because I maintained my 4.0 and fought for my scholarships.The sad part is that's cheap compared to what most students pay to go there.
I haz student loans and it be be forgivenz?
Forgiving student loans is certainly not feasible and goes against everything this movement stands for - accountability and fiscal sense. However I do get student20111's point. A student loan is not exactly comparable to an auto loan or a mortgage since the motivation behind it is driven by different reasons. You can absolutely survive without being a home owner or driving a fancy new car. However getting a good education is an absolute must as the competition is now global. The only way we will get people (those who have a job at least) to spend is to provide some sort of indirect stimulus that will free up their cash flow. Why not provide a tax exemption for the first 5 years of employment for anyone entering the job market ? You still honor your obligations but end up with more disposable income so to speak. Of course it is unfair to people who have dutifully paid off their loans in the past but extraordinary situations need extraordinary measures. This is still better than the fed hopelessly pumping cash into the bank vaults every time the markets wobble. Education should be encouraged at all cost and higher education even more so. We have some of the best institutions in the world, why not encourage more people to go for high growth careers. The bottomline is that a student loan should be a tool to assist in creating a high skill workforce not a cash cow for banking institutions.
you have some really good ideas here. The point that I am trying to make across is - something needs to be done.
Its the lack of common sense that got that debt to $1 trillion. If you have no money and come from a family with no money you need to work your way up to a giant college. Work, part time college, and save. Some of these student loans are absurd! Why put your self that far in debt before even graduating college AND no promise of a job. This generation is brainwashed to think college will get you a good job. Not anymore, that "American Dream" has died. I am all for OWS but students need to be smarter. There are plenty of other options! Like Part time college, Community college, or better yet don't go. Students don't really understand just how much money they are signing for until they are up to their necks in debt after graduating and probably for the rest of their lives. Its hard for a student when the state won't give them money because their parents make to much but the parents don't have enough for college. I know! Its all over the place. College is becoming unrealistic and headed towards impossible.
The rich University and College foundations and endowments could be tapped to help py down student debt.
There are hunders of millions and billions of dollars in these foundations both public and private.
The rich University and College foundations and endowments could be tapped to help py down student debt.
There are hunders of millions and billions of dollars in these foundations both public and private.
What about all of the people that paid their loans? Fuck them over too?
Can't dwell on the past
Where do you expect the money to come from to pay YOUR loans?
FYI. The trillions of dollars that you speak of were not given to banks, but instead loaned to banks. The banks have paid back these loans. Considering the 14trillion dollar deficit that the country is currently in, how do you suggest your student loan forgiveness plan be funded. And once it is complete, do we then eliminate student loans all together or do we just simply forgive all new loans as well and how do we fund that? I look forward to your comprehensive plan.
FYI. The trillions of dollars that you speak of were not given to banks, but instead loaned to banks. The banks have paid back these loans. Considering the 14trillion dollar deficit that the country is currently in, how do you suggest your student loan forgiveness plan be funded. And once it is complete, do we then eliminate student loans all together or do we just simply forgive all new loans as well and how do we fund that? I look forward to your comprehensive plan.
Merchantoftruth: And how far back do we go forgiving??
Why, are you planning on presenting on the floor? Think about what will happen if you have an extra $1000 a month in your pocket
In response to the people saying that we must pay to learn how to "accept responsibility," well, to you I say that my generation has been much more responsible than our Baby Booming predecessors who drove the country into the ground. I achieved straight A's in high school and college, worked part time during both, volunteered for the less fortunate incessantly, and participated in extra-curricular activities to become a "well rounded person" as my elders advised. I received a Bachelor's from an excellent university. Coming from a lower middle class family, I absolutely took out student loans otherwise I would not have been able to go to college. I was not born with a silver spoon, no sir. Yet, I also never have broken the law nor have I even incurred a ticket! Hell, I was never even given a detention growing up! I minded my p's and q's and was actually happy to do so.
And you know what this good kid, hard working ethic got me? I am now in debt from my student loans, working two jobs totaling about 60 hours a week and getting a Master's degree part time to salvage SOME kind of good paying job I was naive enough to think I was entitled to by going to college in the first place. Most of my friends are in very similar situations. I have no time to spend with family & friends, much less exercise, eat properly, or sleep! Since I don't actually have real off days, I consider it an off day when I am not working a double shift! How can someone tell me that I am not responsible? I have been nothing but ultra responsible my whole life thinking I was working toward some kind of pay off. Now I am cynical, bitter, and wondering if working tirelessly this entire short life of mine has been and will be for nothing.
But yea. Forgiving student loans would totally patronize little ol' irresponsible me. Good one.
Well at least you have a job.
So what about the guys who went through your exact same scenario and are doing just fine, making $150k & up a year? Do our student loans get forgiven as well?
I could not have said this better than you. Thank you
I have to agree. As far as accepting the responsibility of a loan - this wouldn't be an issue if there were jobs out there. I think that loans should be interest free at the very least.
Or get some sort of tax break until you pay it off. There are many solutions to the topic posted.
Forgive your Student Loans, well the college should give you a refund, I believe this is true since you clearly didn't learn anything.
If you can walk me through you logic maybe me and others will be able to understand what you mean. If you are not familiar, student loans are not given by the universities, sometimes they have a word in the underwriting but usually the lender is either public or private entity.
And who would get stuck with the Loan that was forgiven. The Bank. let them eat it, soon they will go belly up. Great logic for helping the economy.
I am very surprised by your shortsightedness. But I forgive you - you must have never gone to college
Masters Degree in Business Management, and another school you most likely didn't go to,,School of Hard Knocks. As far as shortsightedness,,I see clearing what your goals are.
Let me ask you this - are you ok with all banks and other financial institutions being bailed out? I think the cost of that is also coming from your, your children and your grandchildren taxes. Are your children in college now? there are a few questions here...
No I do not support this or any other bail out. What should have happened was that Business should have followed the course. In other words if GM was going under let them, another company would have come in and replaced them. Banks, same thing. Regulations should and in some cases have been put into place that could have prevented what happened with the banks.
Well let me see if I can explain to you in a way you might understand. Ok here it is, you buy an Ipod. You use it for maybe a week. It doesn't work so you take it back to WalMart and you ask for your money back. Simple. Since you want the Government to forgive your Student Loans and as I see it you must have gotten a bad education you should get a refund. It's simple . Now let me say this, clearly you have not learned anything in life except maybe that Government Owes you, then you will go thru life expecting hand outs. Welfare, Food Stamps, Free Healthcare.
I have not said anything along the lines you mention above. So you think that buying an Ipod is the same as getting a degree??? Tell that to all people who did this. Really.
I think you are the one who believe that Govt owes them stuff like the things you mentioned
I put it in simple to understand ways that maybe you could understand. I do not take, no food stamps, No Welfare, and no Free Healthcare. I buy what I need and do with what I have or do without.
I think he/she is saying that a poster failed to show competence, leading to him/her suggesting that the college failed at educating and should refund the money... am I close Ohio44048?
Yes close. I see the idea of Blaming everyone else for the problems facing this country to start form the top. Obama blames Bush, the Dems blame the Rep. Me out of work,,its everyones fault. We do have problems and printing money we don't have is like me writing a check when no funds are in the Bank. Only problem is I could go to jail, while the Government is only blamed and scolded for doing so. As a Business man I knew I had to keep improving my company and equipment as well as training my employees. I had to barrow funds to do so when times were tough. I had 32 employees, all laid off because I could not barrow funds because the Banks got to tight with credit. I finally lost my property because it was collateral for the loans. Now I just hope I can keep my home and what little retirement funds I have left. But still I would rather live here then in a Socialistic Country.
I will never forgive Ben Bernanke.
This is even more confusing.
I am guessing Ohio44048 was making a satirical statement.
I had to pay my student loans, stop being a something for nothing and own up to your obligations.
good for you. I am glad you were working and able to do so. How about you imagine this - suppose you just graduated in your field of study. How would your job have evolved and so on...Just curious
There's plenty of work for software developers, despite all the foreigners taking the jobs here on H1B-Visas and the outsourcing. My little brother just graduated with a Bachelors in Liberal Arts...he's Fu!@#. I don't have much sympathy for people who choose to spend tens of thousands on a degree without knowing the marketability of it. Communications Major? Marketing Major? Psychology Major? History Major? Good luck. If you want to do those things then fine, but don't demand that life owes you something because you decided to take what you wanted instead of what would most likely give you a well-paying job. That's wanting something for nothing.
In These days there is no guarantee of a well paying job for anyone. That was the idea years ago, but not anymore. Everyone who works for a living could loose their job very easy!
I am currently employed, but I have seen many who were very secure wake up one morning and on the unemployment line. Thats what makes this movement important, it involves everyone from all walks of life.
And I agree, if you can bail out banks then you need to bail out the people who supported you and helped you get into office. If this government plans on helping anyone it should be the working class people.
Thank you. You got it!
This is ridiculous. You want a bail-out? It undermines the whole protest.
I disagree. I paid almost fll of mine back. If you can't afford $30K/yr tuition then don't go to that school.
Interesting thought. Most schools these days cost even more than that. Why did you take out a student loan?
Because I couldn't afford the entire tuition. Don't go to a private school; go to a state or city school (SUNY, CUNY or in other states even cheaper).
This is why your comment is irrelevant. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ&ob=av2e
and then give a check to all the hard working people who paid their way through? right? i thought u wanted equality?
Polo: you got it right, forgive all debt. Equality, remember Hope and Change and Spread the Wealth. What a joke.
It's estimated the average college student graduating today will be paying back student loans til they are 40. And there is a law stating they cannot file for bankruptcy in regard to student loans. They have some heads in a noose. Another post is asking about violence in this movement. I'm saying anything could happen if you push people hard enough and.....
Cindy: Yes there will be violence, and it will be worst then back in the 60's. It will also be liken to the 60's in that radicals will insit the riots and will promote violence. Glen Beck was right and this is something George Sorous is laughing his ass off about.
It's estimated that the average college student that has a student loan signed it without anyone sticking a gun to their head and saying "your signature on that paper, or I'll blow your brains out!"
Honestly, the moment you start asking for student loans to be "forgiven" or "erased", you're basically asking them to save you from your own bad decisions.
Honestly, I have student loans that I'm paying off myself. I don't believe it to be a moral or ethical thing to tell the people who lent me the money to go to college that they're down all that money because I don't want to pay them. Nor would it be a moral or ethical thing to demand that the common taxpayer pay for it, since they didn't get anything out of it.
Demanding the erasure of student loan debt is no different than demanding the erasure of mortgage debt, or business loans, or me borrowing a thousand bucks from you and then never paying it back. It's all just saying: I borrowed money, and now, simply because I don't want to pay it back, I'll get someone to make it so I don't have to.
I wish people would stop complaining. In my experience, the student loan servicers are themselves pretty understanding when it comes to paying back the loans.
It is also estimated plenty of countries give the people free education and higher education and if our corporations didn't own our lame government including the judicial system writing laws to make sure they get fatter and fatter at the expense of everyone else we wouldn't have any of the problems we're currently facing.
By my estimation, you're trying to change the subject.
Ummmm. no. that is the subject and has been all along. OWS...remember?
Actually, the subject we were just talking about was absolving student loans... as in: taking the money that the loan departments currently have invested in the students and ex-students and making it disappear.
You changed that to a critique of the country's government and judicial system... except it wasn't much of a critique.
And so what if some other countries give out free higher education? That doesn't make it a right for all humanity. If another country gave out free lollipops to all the good little children, would you be whining that lollipops are now something every child has a right to?
Just some food for thought:
When I went to college, I signed on the dotted line for my student loan, not because of physical coercion but because I wanted to go to college and I knew that I would have to borrow money to do so. I took the loan department's money in good faith, and by jove I'm going to pay it back. To do anything less would amount to robbery and/or breach of contract.
Oh my god. This isn't about You. Did it take You until you were forty to pay the loan back as is the estimate for the average college graduate Today?
If You cannot see the difference between a college education and a lollipop maybe You should go back to college. If You can't see how the government is involved in the happenings at each and every level of society then your wasting my time.
I use ME as an example because, quite frankly, I actually make a good example of how the system works. Let me explain to you:
Man borrows money. Man gives away money for something he wants, whether it be a house, a car, an education, or anything else. Man must then pay back money.
I never said I couldn't see the difference between a college education and a lollipop. I was just using that as a highly facetious example of your attitude. I could easily have said free gas. If other countries give free gas to their citizens, would you be saying that free gas is now a basic human right that everyone has a right to? Or tractors. If other countries give tractors to all their citizens, does that make tractors something that everyone is entitled to? I wasn't saying that the things I was comparing it to were the same, just that it is absolutely ridiculous to claim that everyone has a right to something, just because other countries give it to their citizens for free. Truth is, you do NOT have a right to free higher education just because some other countries give it to their citizens. (Which, by the way, I'd like some info on. Which countries exactly give free college education to their students?)
And I never said I didn't believe the government sticks its nose in way to many parts of our private lives. To be honest, I would be perfectly happy if the government butted out a little for once.
But again, the topic we're discussing here is erasure of student loan debt. Not how much government likes to muck about in people's lives. Not about how I use myself and my experiences as an example more than I use my friends' experiences as examples. Not even how you feel slighted at the way I'm talking to you. Erasure of student loan debt, remember? Can you please try to stay on topic?
Oh, and for your information, I'm in my twenties. I'm still paying back my student loan debt. I know how much it is, so don't try to imply that I'm some "old codger who doesn't know how much the kids of today have to suffer", alright?
If Man is living in a system to be ripped off and has too much...wow, aren't I a great person for following the system rules and never fighting for a change then he's one kind of man. If he is willing to fight for change for himself and future generations then he is another type.
Government in our lives the way it was meant to be and not the way it has become since big greedy corporations have taken over is a good thing....maybe we agree on that???
I am saying a country who invests in the future by providing a college education and doesn't gamble the money away is a country that is respectable. We don't have to agree. I'm good not agreeing on that, okay.
Our government decides if we offer education or we don't ....see the connection? I've been on topic the whole time brother. Peace.
PS. if you want to know about higher education in other countries do some research.
I don't have any catchy opening line this time, because my time is short, so I'll just jump right into it.
I'm not saying the system as in "the System", the whole government - business - consumer triangle. I'm saying the system as in "the barter system". Let's face it. One of the basic things assumed by the barter system is that if I give you something of value, I get something of value in return. Sometimes it's physical. I pay you a value of money, I get a television with that value. Sometimes it's immaterial. I give you a hundred bucks for your birthday, I get the satisfaction of seeing you so happy. Sometimes its both. I give you a value of money and the ability to buy something NOW rather than waiting until you've saved up enough money, and in return I get the same value back as well as a bonus for giving you your opportunity to satisfy your impatient desire to have something now.
I do agree that government has gotten too into our lives, but not that government "in our lives the way it was meant to be" is a good thing, especially since I don't know what exactly you're referring to at that. What do you consider "the way it was meant to be" to be? Because I can tell just from talking to you that you and I probably have quite different opinions of what that is.
Yes, our government decides whether it provides a free higher education or not, but again that is beside the point. The thread is not about whether college should be provided by the government or not. This thread is about whether or not you should be "forgiving" these student loans that many have taken out and now don't want to pay. That's the topic we were discussing before, and the topic I'd kind of like to get back to.
P.S. I don't really want to know all the countries that offer free college. Off the top of my head, I can name at least one (Cuba) without looking. The reason I asked you was to get you to show me what information you were basing your argument off of, so I could know where you were coming from and go from there.
You do have one good catchy phrase that I will be borrowing "consumer triangle". I like that one! It sounds like you have given some thought to the way way you feel and I'm not a politician or a salesman and won't intend to try to convince you of something that your heart, mind and soul doesn't adhere to in a natural way. I don't have time to school anyone here either, not that I don't feel you're worth it. Peace.
As is so happens, yes, I do give plenty of thought to my arguments. I may not always have the right facts or think things through in the most logical of ways, but I at least try to. That, I believe, is a responsibility of anyone who wishes to debate. While plenty of people are out there who will blithely say you should do this or that without thinking of whether or not there will be any consequences or fallout from those actions, I believe that it is the responsibility of everyone in the public square to at least have thought their position through, if only to a certain point. So few people today think things through that it is almost criminal.
Sorry, I don't mean to soapbox, but it's a pretty sensitive topic for me.
As it seems that you just want to end this here on amicable terms, I'll refrain from making any snide comments as to the way your message in that last post comes across and just close the book on this discussion. While I may not agree with you, I always enjoy finding someone I can debate and/or argue with.
And home loans?
Only student loans
No one forces anyone at gun point to take out those loans.Get some responsibility for your actions.I am not a fan of the banks.I belive that Uncle should make education affordable.Intrest free.But you will never convince Americans that you can get a free ride.
Support the petition for student loan forgiveness act: http://t.co/rEkN8vrG
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Bullshit.
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:/.... very strange, yet somehow normal for this group
Absolutely. Stand up, Sons of Liberty!
Absolutely, I agree. I am a woman over the age of 40. I thought obtaining a degree was the practical thing to do. I didn't have parents to help me with my education. This is a very serious situation for a lot of people. I am losing hope. I had several setbacks (unemployment, illness), so I fell behind financially. And, right now I have NO health insurance because I AM PAYING MY STUDENT LOANS. It would definitely stimulate the economy if student loans were forgiven. What happened with the student loans is similar to what happened in the mortgage crisis.
But Who pays the banks for the Forgiven Loans?? This is a spiral out of control. I am sorry to hear that you have no healthcare. Can't you get state funded healthcare or free clinics??
I will provide quite a significant boost in people spending...
What are you going to spend if you don't have a job to generate an income?
Only student loans
I agree! This would allow people to have greater expendable funds, thus boosting the economy.
Even greater funds in the peoples hands if they forgave all debt.??
No if we forgive students then I want my home mortgage forgiven, I want my car Loans forgiven, and I want all my credit cars loans forgiven. Plus I want all the money my IRA lost during the Crash to be returned with Interest.
Not all debt. Just student loans. Answer this question - why do you take a student loan? Also, answer this - why do you take a home loan or credit card loan?
The answer to all three is the same. You take a student loan, a home loan, or a debt on your credit card because you want something (a college diploma, a house, or "stuff") but can't pay for it at the moment.
I disagree with this answer. It is a simplistic way of looking. Dig deeper. Why do you need a diploma?
student20111, you're asking all the questions. Fill us in on what you feel the answers are. Walk us through how a forgiving the loans relates to a better economy. Maybe ConfusedSceptic and I are missing something.
It is all about spending. If I don't have to pay the $1000 a month loan for example, I would buy a car or a house or something else. Spending stimulates the economy. This is the way out of this black hole the banks put us in
Not only that. Do some research about the countries that do offer a free education knowing investing in the people's education rather than trying to suck their soul is a more wise and humane way to treat the people.
This is another good point
Yes you could go out and buy a car or house, if you could get a loan. But the next thing you know you would want to have it forgiven too. And if you don't have a job, then how do you get a loan for a new car or house. Banks don't lead money on tomorrow dreams.
You are still missing the point of what a student loan's purpose is. Too bad. There are some very smart responses to the topic on this forum, I advise you to read them.
Since I have a Masters degree in business and had a Student loan I think I know the purpose of a Student Loan. I got an education. I never expected anyone to pay for it other then myself. I pay taxes and if you lived in my neighbor I would have paid so you could have a public education. The Bottom Line is you do not deserve for me or anyone else to pay for your college education, Bank or Government. You want a free ride like most welfare people.
It looks like you wasted your time with your MBA since you cannot really see how this could be funded. It is actually self-funded. Just need to put your thoughts to it to understand.
Ok explain to me how you,,getting a loan forgiven put more money into the pocket of anyone other then yourselves, all you with current Student Loans. If these loans are from say a Bank, and the bank forgives your loan they will not have funds to loan more students. Yes your loan was most likely underwritten and.or guaranteed by some federal agency, so they cover the banks loss, now the federal agency is out the funds. Funds that were there because of Taxes I paid into it. Forgiveness of your loan is a drain on the economy. But of course this doesn't matter to you or your cause since you want the destruction of the USA.
ConfusedSceptic 1 points 20 hours ago As an extension of above... If you have a loan "forgiven", rather than paying it back, then someone is losing money. If I were a banker, and you came to me for a house loan, I'd first check to see what your record was like on your other loans. If I see "lending-for-school-expenses inc." lent you $100,000 and only made $5,000 of it back before it mysteriously "disappeared", there's no way in Kilimanjaro that I'm going to be giving you any money before I have proof that it won't all just "disappear" as well.
As an extension of above...
If you have a loan "forgiven", rather than paying it back, then someone is losing money. If I were a banker, and you came to me for a house loan, I'd first check to see what your record was like on your other loans. If I see "lending-for-school-expenses inc." lent you $100,000 and only made $5,000 of it back before it mysteriously "disappeared", there's no way in Kilimanjaro that I'm going to be giving you any money before I have proof that it won't all just "disappear" as well.
Honestly, in spite of everything you've ever been told, you don't. There are plenty of jobs that do not require a college degree. Plenty of opportunities to start at the bottom and work your way up. And on the flip side, getting a degree doesn't guarantee you a good job, although from what I've seen it does make you less willing to take available jobs if they don't measure up to a certain standard as to what you "deserve".
Honestly, if you're a farmer, buying a tractor with a credit card is no different than if you're an aspiring computer programer going into student loan debt to get a computer programming degree. You're both spending money you don't have on something you believe you need to be successful in your chosen career.
And as for my reply, please note that the simplest explanation, while not always correct, is generally more correct than one that tries to complicate the same basic assumption.
I agree there are jobs that do not require much of an Education. But as a parent I would want a College Education for my children. But if there are no new jobs to be had,,well do the math education no job is still no money. Oh and BTW, As a farmer I have barrowed to buy a tractor. But now with money so tight I can't barrow to buy seed to plant. It is not the fault of the Banks or Corporte America. The problems are global.We need solutions, not protesters.
I agree, that's why I'm so frustrated that when I ask the members of this board what they want done, many of them get a whole "I don't know what I want but I won't be satisfied until I get it" attitude.
Typical response form sheep being lead to slaughter. I want to know who is paying these people? Who bused them in? Who do they think will pay to clean up the mess they are making in Public Parks? and Who do they think will pay for what they demand? Who?
I don't really know which world you live in. Today is 2011 - such opportunities no longer exist - most were outsourced.
Really? I'm not seeing the same thing. In fact, I'm seeing plenty of jobs open just in the small town I live in, and in the surrounding small towns. Maybe you're living in the wrong part of the country? (I'm in Texas, by the way.)
Good for you. What kind of jobs are those?
The only new jobs here are working on repaving roads. But those are not new jobs, they are jobs that would have been done in the future IF we had state funds to do them. These are jobs that the Stimulus made. I have not seen one New Job yet. I mean really truly new, not putting a laid off worker back to work. I mean a new company or older one that is hiring New people.
I am in Northern Ohio, we are not seeing new jobs or much hiring. But we do see is closed stores and people being laid off. Glad there are jobs somewhere. BTW are these new jobs supported by government funds or the private sector??
Mostly, as far as I can tell, private sector. More people moving down here means more leasing jobs, food industry jobs, retail jobs, driving jobs (driving the merchandise around and/or delivering it), and more people passing through on the way to the lake (a popular tourist destination) means more hotel services as well. While there might be some government money in there somewhere, I'm pretty sure most of the impetus for the new jobs comes from the people moving in.
Food industry, Retail, Driving/Trucking, Leasing, and Hotel Services, and that's only the ones I've been looking into while trying to find a better job (not because I can't advance, but simply because I don't like working under my current boss, who's a bit of a dick.)
Good for you and glad you have a chance to change jobs. I hope things are improving around Houston too, my niece is there unemployed two years.
Most places down here in Texas are pretty good. But it's true there are a few places, mostly in the big cities, that aren't. Irving, the town I lived in before, situated right between Dallas and Ft. Worth, had a horrible job market. That's why I moved.