Forum Post: For all of those who wish for higher taxes on the rich, consider this.
Posted 13 years ago on Sept. 28, 2011, 5:30 a.m. EST by cebax
(8)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The reason we are having a lot of these issues is because of our governments taxation. Because the government practices redistribution of wealth, those with disproportionate amount of wealth have a disproportionate amount of influence on where the government funds go.
Do you think this will ever change? I don't believe it will, as long as the government retains the power we the people have allowed it the gain, it will be infinitely corruptible. So I believe as long as people want there to be higher taxes on some over others, there will be people who are able to corrupt the system and use that money for their desires rather then the desires of the people.
The best solution is to limit the power of the government. The occupy wall street protest is a great example of this already, they are a non centralized democracy, where no one person or group has the power to control the will of the group. Instead everyone is allowed their own free will to participate how they see fit. Everyone who is donating is doing so because they choose to. Why would that ideal change once it is applied on a larger scale?
I believe that people are reluctant to help others because they have been taught that its the governments job and not theirs. When we see people in need we have been trained to think, "what is our government doing to help these people?" RATHER then what am I doing to help these people. If this thought process is to change we must get the government out the tax game and remove the false notion of redistribution of wealth. It should be obvious to us all by now, the government does not serve us the 99%, it serves them the 1%.
this is ludicrous and nonsensical. it is the right and proper place of a well functioning government to protect the interests of the people against the interests of corporations. We need to limit the power of corporations, and yes, we do need to deal with government corruption, but in terms of whos who and whats what, you have reversed everything here in exactly the wrong order. Unless you are in the top one percent, who of course want government to have no power so that corporations can go unchecked.
The government can and should protect the peoples rights, not the special interests and redistribution of wealth. I am suggesting that we limit its scope to its original purpose once again and let it work for us and not against us.
No corporations would not go unchecked, if our government was working for us, they would have gone bankrupt, they would have been arrested for fraud, and we the people would not be picking up their losses as they gamble on wall street with our money.
I am a recent graduate with college loans and no job, so I am directly effected by our government intervention in economics.
sounds good. devil is in the details.
If you make over 300K per anum - 42% goes to Uncle Sam or better yet "the American Public's purse"
If you make over 7 million per anum .. then 50% of that goes to said "PUBLIC PURSE."
How many pairs of shoes can one wear at a time?
How many separate homes, cars do one really need simultaneously?
Unrestrained greed has been DYSFUNCTIONAL for too long, it needs to be curtailed and corrected.
Cebax,
High Income tax for the rich is the only simple solution to control human greed. If you have any other way to curtail and prevent human greed, let's hear from you.
AGREED! (pun intended)
Happy to agree too.
Human greed is not controlled through taxation. Its social, cultural, biological, and will be around regardless.
I see the centralization of power as a far greater evil, as wealth itself cannot take away our freedoms, but the government can, will, and has been doing so for far to long.
Remove the power gained through wealth and you will begin to also attack the culture of greed.
Taxation is a means funding and empowering the federal government. It helps to continue the centralizing of power.
What would also help, is enforcement of fraud laws. This won't happen until the tie between big money and big government is severed.
For your kind information Greed was not a problem in USA between 1950 and 1980, since the rich had to cough 90% income tax. You know what rich did ? They never tried to make too much money, since they knew it will go to govt anyways. They left money on the table and that is how the middle class was built in USA. You got to think out of box about your idea about govt. We are trying to change the present form of govt to be more democratic and responsive to the demands of the citizens. If the power of govt is distributed (not concentrated) there is no need to be worried.
You haven't read my idea of collecting and spending of tax. I suggest you to do so. http://littleg-ideas.blogspot.com/2011/09/how-to-curtail-greed-in-democracy.html
we both agree with each other on the decentralization of power, only I argue that a federal income tax itself perpetuates the centralization of power.
I'm not sure how. If Federal government cannot spend the money it collects how is it powerful then ?
Not sure what you mean by this statement.
First read my blog, then please reply.
The federal government does need to raise and spend funds just not on the level it does today. They need to limit their scope to upholding the constitution.
If you propose a 90% tax that you admit will be dodged, then will it raise anything? Or will it be dodged by crafty money movements and funneled through corporations?
90% tax is not because the government needs all this money. It is to discourage rich people from hoarding money (reduce greed). By having 90% tax doesn't mean govt will get a lot of tax revenues. Even though tax rate is 90%, nobody would make too much money from their business and then pay 90% to government. It's the way this incentive works.
The profits made by corporations will always go to the owners and shareholders(rich people). Corporation is just a front end for investors to make money.
You must be aware that as long as you are a US citizen, no matter where you live on earth you still need to show income and pay taxes to US government. The only way these rich people to avoid taxes then will be to give up US citizenship and go else where. Trust me, it's better for this country if the Greedy and wealthy suckers leave this country.
Cebax: The ideal changes when applied on a larger scale because those that currently participate in this protest are caring people. Those that only desire more and more are not there. In fact, they are and will continue to actively fight against us. And those people WILL stack the deck every time they can. The only way to limit THEIR power is to increase ours. What has been forgotten is that THIS IS OUR GOVERNMENT, NOT THEIRS. It is time to take it back. A huge problem is our government has NO teeth when it comes to financial regulation, and this is screwing us all. Thank you for being here, and thank you for your honest and open debate.
The united states was founded on the idea of a nation ran by many different communities coming together as one entity. Each community effectively governing itself while the entity as a whole protecting the peoples rights, freedom, and liberties. The idea is that one governing power cannot act in the best interest of each unique community.
Through systematic centralization of government we have been giving power to the wealth of the nation over the people of the nation. This gives motive to amass even more wealth in the hands of those who desire to control the system.
What funds this massive move to centralized power? Borrowing of money, income taxes, and the printing of money by the federal reserve, a private centralized bank which is controlled by and in the interests of the 1%.
How does no tax or low tax for the rich solve your centralization and abuse of power problem ?
Money is power. If I have money, I can literally buy representatives. How do you prevent concentration of Money then ?
Can you eliminate income tax completely? Impractical. All your ideas are typical libertarian ideas, some of which are simply foolish. Try something pragmatic.
What I believe is un-american is the use of force and coercion to reach your goals, by definition that is what income tax is.
Its un-American not to serve in the armed forces because its to the benefit to all that we defend America. so lets have a universal draft so that everyone does their fair share. See what I did there?
I ask you, how do you think our big powerful government is doing standing up for us the people?
We have the right to our own persons, and to our personal property. We do not have rights to goods and services.
Is government the only entity capable of providing health care?
The truth is that, you and I want the same thing, only I am unwilling to steal from others to achieve my goals. I think we should strive to provide health care to all, but through charity and the will of the people, and not force and coercion at the hand of the government.
We KNOW that the big powerful government is not standing up for us the people. If it were, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The idea of centralization being the problem is a red-herring. As has been discussed many times here and other places, one major problem is the personhood of corporations and their influence over law. One of the main ideas (yes, there are many etc) of this protest is the removal of corporate influence over government, so that we can be represented equally. Centralization has strengths and weaknesses. As does decentralization. In fact, decentralization makes the will of the people less powerful. The 1% loves that idea, which is why the Tea Parties parrot it regularly. They are financed by Club for Growth and the Koch Brothers. These are members of a criminal class that is terrified that the peasants will revolt, so they point them in a different direction. We are a weapon. Take yourself out of their hands and turn around. Point at them. Metaphorically speaking.
How does the decentralization make the will of the people less powerful?
I feel people have far more interest on a local level to get involved, where at a national level its easier to dismiss as other peoples problems.
cebax, We need fair taxation without loopholes and preferences, which also means "raising" the taxes on those who don't pay their fair share (primarily the über rich). How do you want to ensure quality education for our children, just as an example, without having the funds or an independent (state or federal government) system to do this? We are the government - we can't forget this. We must ensure that the government is strong enough to stand up for it's people (us) in the face of the current for-profit-only mentality. I also do not agree with your opinion that people have been taught that the government should take care of everything and that's why they are reluctant to help others. Just look at how many people are without adequate health care in the US. Nobody argues that if you drive a car you must have auto insurance; why is it so hard to understand that we all have a right to health? And yes, in the case of universal health care some people would pay more than others who cannot afford it. Is that un-American? Is it un-American for those who can contribute more (also in the form of taxes) to be obligated to do so? I don't necessarily think so. I think it's great when the community comes together to help an un/under-insured person pay for their life-saving treatment. That's real community in action, but why does have to come to this in the first place?
DB