Forum Post: Fixing this mess requires fixing our education system.
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 18, 2011, 8:53 a.m. EST by commonsense11
(195)
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We need to revamp our education system. Mandatory attendance for 10 grades. At this point there are plenty of people that desire to work as cashiers, servers, and such. They have all the education they need to do this.
Those that have demonstrated they are motivated and have an aptitude to do so can now take one of two paths. Group one begins training for a trade. Half day working with a sponsor to gain experience and half day formal training in a class room setting in their trade of choice.
Group two that aspires to have a college education continues with two more years of college prep courses. At the conclusion of this if they have shown the aptitude and desire to succeed they attend college with no cost to them. Those that fail to demonstrate aptitude and motivation can go to college as long as they are paying for it provided there is a college that will accept them dependent on their likely hood of success. No free ride for these guys and no student loans. They work their way through.
Of course we would need to provide a way for adults that want to better themselves or change fields to do so. Adult education that the adult student will pay for as they work.
The brightest and most driven will not be denied an education that enables them to successfully contribute to society. The unmotivated and unrealistic receive what ever level of education they desire as long as they are paying for it while working, building character, and gaining experience.
http://13wham.com//news/features/local-news/stories/staff-knocks-doors-get-kids-school-508.shtml
You're idea sounds eerily similar to the way things were when I was in school (1950s-60s) and seemed to work pretty well then. The more big govt. has intruded, the worse its gotten.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f04fCbFStks
why do people feel that they need to be justified by further education?
the more one studies, the more specialized one becomes. this actually limits the possible jobs that one can get! studies on the rich by sudhir venkatesh, the researcher in freakonomics who studied gang behaviour, found that rich people are more likely to be generalists, jack of all trades and master of none, and are able to begin work and take on responsibility earlier in life and accrue valuable leadership experience.
remember that the further one advances his studies, the more he opens himself to competition from other specialists from around the world. The competition actually gets tougher, not easier. more is demanded of one who has gained the benefits of specialized education.
specialists are also vulnerable to industrial shifts - if you picked up a biochem research degree now, if the big pharma industry ever moves away from bio R&D into med tech R&D, your skills will be made worthless!
think really hard about studying! in times when we are lacking visionary leaders, what we need are less specialists and more generalists!
The idea that students with "aptitude and desire to succeed attened college with no cost to them" sounds alot like scholarships. The real fixing of the education system must occur at the high school level. While private schools, and even public schools in wealthy neighborhoods, offer an opprotunity for a good education based on teacher ability and classroom environment, school that are underfunded give those students a terrible chance of succeeding academically. The current system of high school level education is a reminder of "separate, but equal". The people in charge of funding education give the impression that academic success is based solely on a students work ethic and intellect, all while ignoring the norms and influences of underfunded public high schools. A few of these norms include an acceptence of failure, minimal work ethic, and a feeling of unsuperiority based on lack of up-to-date supplies, building maintenence and qualified teachers.
I agree 100% with this concept. The way schools are funded must also be dealt with to insure everyone at least has the same opportunity to succeed. It will never be possible to to insure every school district will have the same quality of teachers but proper and equal funding is a great start.
It will still boil down to the individuals desire to succeed as well as their intellectual abilities but no child should be handicapped because they come from a poor family in a poor neighborhood that is unable to adequately fund the school system.
Let's not forget about these issues:
We have been mislead by Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr, Obama, and nearly every other public figure. Economic growth, job creation, and actual prosperity are not necessarily a package deal. In fact, the first two are horribly misunderstood. Economic growth/loss (GDP) is little more than a measure of wealth changing hands. A transfer of currency from one party to another. The rate at which it is traded. This was up until mid ’07′ however, has never been a measure of actual prosperity. Neither has job creation. The phrase itself has been thrown around so often, and in such a generic political manner, that it has come to mean nothing. Of course, we need to have certain things done for the benefit of society as a whole. We need farmers, builders, manufacturers, transporters, teachers, cops, firefighters, soldiers, mechanics, sanitation workers, doctors, managers, and visionaries. Their work is vital. I’ll even go out on a limb and say that we need politicians, attorneys, bankers, investors, and entertainers. In order to keep them productive, we must provide reasonable incentives. We need to compensate each by a fair measure for their actual contributions to society. We need to provide a reasonable scale of income opportunity for every independent adult, every provider, and share responsibility for those who have a legitimate need for aid. In order to achieve and sustain this, we must also address the cost of living and the distribution of wealth. Here, we have failed miserably. The majority have already lost their home equity, their financial security, and their relative buying power. The middle class have actually lost much of their ability to make ends meet, re-pay loans, pay taxes, and support their own economy. The lower class have gone nearly bankrupt. In all, its a multi-trillion dollar loss taken over about 30 years. Millions are under the impression that we need to create more jobs simply to provide more opportunity. as if that would solve the problem. It won’t. Not by a longshot. Jobs don’t necessarily create wealth. In fact, they almost never do. For the mostpart, they only transfer wealth from one party to another. A gain here. A loss there. Appreciation in one community. Depreciation in another. In order to create net wealth, you must harvest a new resource or make more efficient use of one. Either way you must have a reliable and ethical system in place to distribute that newly created wealth in order to benefit society as a whole and prevent a lagging downside. The ‘free market’ just doesn’t cut it. Its a farce. Many of the jobs created are nothing but filler. The promises empty. Sure, unemployment reached an all-time low under Bush. GDP reached an all-time high. But those are both shallow and misleading indicators. In order to gauge actual prosperity, you must consider the economy in human terms. As of ’08′ the average American was working more hours than the previous generation with far less equity to show for it. Consumer debt, forclosure, and bankruptcy were also at all-time highs. As of ’08′, every major American city was riddled with depressed communities, neglected neighborhoods, failing infrastructures, lost revenue, and gang activity. All of this has coincided with massive economic growth and job creation. Meanwhile, the rich have been getting richer and richer and richer even after taxes. Our nation’s wealth has been concentrated. Again, this represents a multi-trillion dollar loss taken by the majority. Its an absolute deal breaker. Bottom line: With or without economic growth or job creation, you must have a system in place to prevent too much wealth from being concentrated at the top. Unfortunately, we don’t. Our economy has become nothing but a giant game of Monopoly. The richest one percent already own nearly 1/2 of all United States wealth. More than double their share before Reagan took office. Still, they want more. They absolutely will not stop. Now, our society as a whole is in serious jeapordy. Greed kills.
It's not that I disagree with you but I was under the impression that thread titles determine the content of the thread. Exactly how do you put into practical application all that you have written towards revamping our education system?
From my long experience in dealing with governments in more than a dozen of them I assure you that if you slash more than half of government officials or the so-called public dis-service and throw them to the streets you will definitely get better, effective and efficient administrations.
I am sure they are the source of corruption and corporate greed support. I have never seen in my long life any government department or an office functioning properly. They are excesses, idles, and the antithesis of innovation, ethics and productivity.
People must have regular and uninterrupted access to monitor what are going on in any government office, low or high, including the judiciary, the police, the security, and the military.
When you deal personally with a successful private business you feel your power as a valued customer even if it was unethical business. But when I personally deal with any government office I feel their arrogance and wickedness; I wish I could spit on their faces.
The public service anywhere in the world is ten times it’s optimal size, and they are very good in employing the failures and the dishonest for life.
To Occupy Wall Street and bring social, political, and economic justice people must axe useless officials first.
Before fixing the education system, education itself needs to be fixed. There are some questions that need to be answered so that the truth can be taught. This will change the ill mindstate. We have to get the basics right first.
Can you expand on this and offer some examples?
Education as we know it today is mostly taught from a western perspective. We have been made to think that all the knowledge came from Europe, when infact that is not true. The knowledge base came from many other cultures, from Asia, from Africa and wherever else, this is however not acknowledged.
Like many others you believe in a hierarchical quasi feudal system. The worker bees and the elite. It is a wonderful system for creating what we now have. 1984 by George Orwell....Hopefully if your world comes about there will be space for us savages.
Education is never denied or stopped even as adults. If you had read through to the end of my statement you would have seen that adults still have the opportunity to change fields and educate themselves. Some changes in vocation require no additional education to do so. The difference is you pay for it if you want it while you are earning your way in society.
The debt load students have to endure is out of control. The are also a great number of students that are taking out loans that if they were working their way through college would never waste their time with the degrees they have chosen. Earning your education ensures a person is serious about it and is motivated to success. It may take twice as long to get through school but we won't have to deal with these "entitled" unmotivated individuals that have no desire to work.
There needs to be allocations made for those that truly are gifted and motivated though. This also provides motivation for students to be exceptional to be included in this group rather then find themselves working as they attend college.
If you haven't noticed there are far too many unmotivated people in our society that believe the world owes them. Each of of deserves a fair opportunity and the right to pursue the career of our choice. Earning it increases the likely hood of success. Paying for the top students provides motivation to be exceptional and creates competition for these spots.
Sounds like German education system, but still belive second chances that what America is great for.