Forum Post: First the anarchists, and now truthers... what happened OWS
Posted 13 years ago on Dec. 3, 2011, 4:06 a.m. EST by MercD
(20)
from Spanaway, WA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Why are we not speaking out against this madness that does nothing but serve as media fodder to discredit us?
It seems as though people would rather be told what to think instead of forming their own opinions. As long as they can get home to watch their favorite "reality" show.
The first real battle OWS has is to raise the consciousness of the masses so they can see the lies being told to them. People in general are sheepish and will follow trends, leaders, or wants so they don't have to reason it out for themselves. That is why we are where we are today; people just don't think for themselves anymore.
The real truth as I see it is that people are easily pacified and ignorant by choice. We numb ourselves by watching shows like Dancing with the Stars, or Keeping up with the Kardashions, or whatever it is called. The grand majority of the populace will not pay attention to any social movements unless it disturbs their little world. Then, and only then, will they begin to think about what is happening. The vast majority is content to work 10 hours a day to make enough so they can have an x-box or a flat screen tv or some other distraction. They hope they can have a chance to go out once in a while and afford to pay for their home.
The social engineers have been quite successful in numbing the masses through TV, drugs both legal or not, possessions, and maybe an occasional vacation to ease that disturbing thought in the back of most people's minds that there must be something more to life.
I think the "social engineers" have done quite well in inhibiting rational thought. They have assured that we are nothing but semi-robotic slaves to serve them as "masters". They numb the masses at every turn to be consumers and not thinkers.
Sometimes I wonder if we have actually been conquered by an alien species and we are no more than an interesting game for them; a game on a grand scale.
This is true about the social engineers. They keep you entertained with tv and games so you won't pay any attention to the "man behind the curtain" destroying our world.
www.thrivemovement.com
I don't blame the 'truthers', I blame the media. It's becoming harder and harder to trust anything from the mainstream media which tends to make people flock to wild speculations and theories. IMO.
I wrote this in 1982 while on active duty in the US Army
Hypnovision
It fills you full of Bullshit At 30 frames per second Whilst portraying the illusion That the hero always wins
A sudden pause for a brief message Post-hypnotically suggested And the daemon wins again
Used to pacify your children And to pass your own free time You live in Television And you lose your own free mind
Thanks for your service & Keep fighting the good fight. Peace.
The US public is clinically insane, you think you can just park a child in front of a TV for 18,000 hours and get a citizen?
The MSM would be bitching if baby-jeebus himself was the OWS leader, just ignore, ...
The anarchists are the ones who put their asses on the street in the first place, without them you would have never gotten off first base.
Now you have every fringe group on the planet checking out OWS, and what do they find? MSM rhetoric, ... so is disgust the "REAL" 99% vent their opinions, of which the status-quo cannot tolerate.
You can control the GA, you cannot control a forum.
We shouldn't want to control a forum. It's one of the few places of anonymity to speak one's mind.
This is what a real democracy looks like :)
Natural abhors a vacuum, including a vacuum of leadership. The seeds of destruction of OWS were sown from the beginning, as it became clear that the loudest and most persistent voices would win the day. The more committed zealots would speak louder and stay longer than the moderates, especially as the weather got colder, so extremism was inevitable. Sociologists will study this as a prime example of how NOT to run a movement.
We are speaking out see my link, donate, vote, pray.....
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
I'm starting to think this forum was set up to discredit the OWS movement...
The truthers fabricate lies and they are so far from the truth, i can only conclude they have mental illness that causes paranoic fabrications of a false reality
It's sufficient to define an enemy: WALLSt
How specifically have people devoted to knowing the truth about 9/11 harmed OW?
there is a credibility issue with the general public.
I agree. But if it's too difficult to tell the truth just say nothing. As far as I know Occupy has no official position on what happened on 9/11. Is there any mass media tying Occupy to 9/11 Truth?
Not that I've seen so far.
It wouldn't surprise me in the future, as we expand our size and influence. We should prepare for such an eventuality - as gently as possible of course.
It is an emotional topic for everyone.
International Poll: No Consensus On Who Was Behind 9/11 http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/international_security_bt/535.php?nid=&id=&pnt=535&lb=btis&gclid=CJmG9vjR5qwCFcp65Qodu20bMg Questionnaire/Methodology (PDF) Press Release (PDF)
A WorldPublicOpinion.org poll of 17 nations found that majorities in only nine of them believed that al Qaeda was behind the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the United States.
(Photo: Tamara Beckwith)
In no country did a majority agree on another possible perpetrator, but in most countries significant minorities cited the US government itself and, in a few countries, Israel. These responses were given spontaneously to an open-ended question that did not offer response options.
On average, 46 percent said that al Qaeda was behind the attacks while 15 percent say the US government, seven percent Israel, and seven percent some other perpetrator. One in four said they do not know.
"Given the extraordinary impact the 9/11 attacks have had on world affairs, it is remarkable that seven years later there was no international consensus about who was behind them," comments Steven Kull, director of WorldPublicOpinion.org.
Even in European countries, the majorities that said al Qaeda was behind 9/11 are not overwhelming. Fifty-seven percent of Britons, 56 percent of Italians, 63 percent of French and 64 percent of Germans cited al Qaeda." However, significant portions of Britons (26%), French (23%), and Italians (21%) said they did not know who was behind 9/11. Remarkably, 23 percent of Germans cited the US government, as did 15 percent of Italians.
Publics in the Middle East were especially likely to name a perpetrator other than al Qaeda. In Egypt 43 percent said that Israel was behind the attacks, as did 31 percent in Jordan and 19 percent in the Palestinian Territories. The US government was named by 36 percent of Turks and 27 percent of Palestinians. The numbers who said al Qaeda was behind the attacks range from 11 percent in Jordan to 42 percent in the Palestinian Territories.
The only countries with overwhelming majorities citing al Qaeda were the African countries: Kenya (77%) and Nigeria (71%). In Nigeria, a large majority of Muslims (64%) also said that al Qaeda was behind the attacks (compared to 79% of Nigerian Christians).
The poll of 16,063 respondents was conducted between July 15 and August 31, 2008 by WorldPublicOpinion.org, a collaborative research project involving research centers from around the world and managed by the Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) at the University of Maryland. Margins of error range from +/-3 to 4 percent.
Interviews were conducted in 17 nations, including most of the largest nations--China, Indonesia, Nigeria, and Russia--as well as Egypt, France, Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Jordan, Kenya, Mexico, the Palestinian Territories, South Korea, Taiwan, Turkey, and the Ukraine. The nations included represent 38% of the world population.
Respondents were asked "Who do you think was behind the 9/11 attacks?" and their answers were categorized into four response groups: "Al Qaeda," "the US government," Israel," or "Other." Any answers that approximated al Qaeda, such as "bin Laden" or "Islamic extremists," were categorized along with those who said al Qaeda. Those who simply characterized the perpetrators as "Arabs," "Saudis," or "Egyptians" (3% on average) were included in the "Other" category.
Respondents in Asia had mixed responses. Bare majorities in Taiwan (53%) and South Korea (51%) named al Qaeda, but 17 percent of South Koreans pointed to the US government and large numbers in both countries said they do not know (Taiwan 34%, South Korea 22%).
Majorities of Chinese (56%) and Indonesians (57%) said they do not know, with significant minorities citing the US government (Indonesia 14%, China 9%).
A clear majority of Russians (57%) and a plurality of Ukrainians (42%) said al Qaeda was behind the attacks. But significant minorities identified the US government (15% in both cases) and large numbers did not provide an answer (Ukrainians 39%, Russians 19%).
Out of all countries polled, Mexico had the second-largest number citing the US government as the perpetrator of 9/11 (30%, after Turkey at 36%). Only 33 percent named al Qaeda.
Though people with greater education generally have greater exposure to news, those with greater education were only slightly more likely to attribute 9/11 to al Qaeda. Steven Kull comments, "It does not appear that these beliefs can simply be attributed to a lack of exposure to information."
A stronger correlate of beliefs about 9/11 were respondents' attitudes about the United States. Those with a positive view of America's influence in the world were more likely to cite al Qaeda (on average 59%) than those with a negative view (40%). Those with a positive view of the United States were also less likely to blame the US government (7%) than those with a negative view (22%).
This begins to illlustrate vast failures of past administrative foreign policy initiatives.
People who dislike bullies also are less likely to trust them.
Rockefeller Foundation
Rockefeller Brothers Fund
Tides Foundation
Ford Foundation
German Marshall Fund of the United States
Compton Foundation
Carnegie Corporation
Benton Foundation
Ben and Jerry's Foundation
University of Maryland Foundation
Circle Foundation
JEHT Foundation
Stanley Foundation
Ploughshares Fund
Calvert Foundation
Secure World Foundation
Oak Foundation
United States Institute of Peace
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/about.php?nid=&id=
And? Are you telling me there is not a lot of doubt worldwide regarding the official (garbled and changing) 9/11 narrative? Would the ruling class want to know about this? Where do we get our information from anyhow? Pure sources? Not often.
I'm suggesting the organization is suspect due to it's funding sources. Notice they completely left the US of A out of their report? They also neglected to ask (or report) related questions. I did polling part time while in college. It is easy to manipulate results by how the questions are asked.
9/11 and the War on Terror: Polls Show What People Think 10 Years Later http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/09/911-and-the-war-on-terror-polls-show-what-people-really-believe-10-years-later.html Posted on September 10, 2011 by WashingtonsBlog Polls Show that Americans Think We Overreacted, Overspent and Weakened Ourselves Through the War on Terror As the Brooking Institution reported yesterday, Americans that the government overreacted and overspent in reaction to 9/11:
These are a summary of findings of a new poll conducted by the Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) and the Anwar Sadat Chair for Peace and Development at the University of Maryland.
Six in ten Americans believe that that the United States weakened its economy by overspending in its responses to the 9/11 attacks. In particular, respondents felt this was especially true of the U.S. mission in Iraq. Two out of three Americans perceive that over the decade since 9/11, U.S. power and influence in the world has declined. This view is highly correlated with the belief that the United States overspent in its post-9/11 response efforts – the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
At this point, a large majority (73%) wants the United States to reduce the number of troops in Afghanistan, but less than half (44%) want troops withdrawn completely.
Fifty-five percent say that the United States has spent too many resources in the Iraq war, while a plurality of 49% called the Iraq war a mistake (45% right decision). This criticism is a bit lower than other polls that asked similar questions in 2010 and found a majority ranging from 51 to 62% saying that it was not the right decision.
Support for the decision to go to war is highly correlated with beliefs held by substantial and undiminishing minorities that Iraq was providing support to al Qaeda (46%) and either had a WMD program or actual WMDs (47%). Among those with such beliefs, large majorities say the war was the right thing while among those without such beliefs large majorities have the opposite views.
A modest majority (53%) believes that the U.S. should withdraw its troops according to schedule even if the Iraqi government asks the US to stay another year.
A clear majority (61%) says that the United States should not take sides in its efforts to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, while just 27% want the United States to lean toward Israel (5% toward Palestinians).
(Incidentally, top American military leaders agree, saying that the war on terror has weakened our national security).
Rasmussen has repeatedly noted that Americans are strongly opposed to further military or other types of intervention in Arab countries: As with the recent turmoil in Egypt, most Americans (67%) say the United States should leave the situation in the Arab countries alone. Just 17% say the United States should get more directly involved in the political situation there, but another 17% are not sure.
This was true for Libya. And it is true elsewhere. For example, the overwhelming majority of Americans are also opposed to intervention in Syria. Polls Show Widespread Doubt About Official Explanations The results of polls on peoples’ beliefs about 9/11 around the world might surprise you:
In its January 2011 issue, the popular German magazine “Welt der Wunder” published the results of a poll conducted by the Emnid institute on 1005 respondents. The poll indicated that nearly 90% percent of Germans are convinced that the government of the United States is not telling the whole truth about the September 11 attacks A new poll conducted in England by ICM shows that more UK residents agree than disagree that the official account of what happened on 9/11 might turn out to be wrong in important respects. Only 8% strongly agree that they have been told the full story of the 9/11 attacks A new poll conducted in France by HEC Paris shows that 58% of French people doubt the official version of 9/11, and 49% believe the U.S. government might have intentionally allowed the attacks to happen A Zogby poll conducted in August 2007 found that 51% of Americans want Congress to probe Bush/Cheney regarding the 9/11 attacks, two-thirds (67%) of Americans say the 9/11 Commission should have investigated the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 A poll conducted by CNN-IBN in August 2007 found that only 2 out of 5 of those polled in India – the world’s second most populous country – believe that al-Qaeda is responsible for the 9/11 attacks Indeed, a poll taken by World Public Opinion, a collaborative project of research centers in various countries managed by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland, College Park, polled 16,063 people in 17 nations outside of the United States during the summer of 2008. They found that majorities in only 9 of the 17 countries believe Al Qaeda carried out the attacks. The poll showed that in the world’s most populous country – China – only 32% believed that Al Qaeda carried out the attacks.
I don't go to Occupy San Diego any more.
There are some US flags, a voter registration table, and a few loiterers, just what you'd see at any shopping mall during an election year.
Oh, there are still a few people carrying signs occasionally, a few marches with people chanting that they got sold out by the system they're registering voters for, and sometimes the chant that a few American flags and a voter registration table is what democracy looks like.
They do still hold GAs, but if there are blocks (how could anybody be so unpatriotic as to block voter registration?) they just table it until they can bring in a bunch of Democrats and people from Canvass for a Cause to override the blocks using the 90% rule.
They are somewhat perplexed as to why the system is still harassing them for doing civil disobedience (setting up a table) in support of the system (registering voters). They think they live in a democracy and that because they're supporting the system, the system will eventually allow them to support it in unauthorized ways.
The anarchists are gone, and so is anyone who prefers direct democracy to representative "democracy."
I don't there there were ever very many people at Occupy San Diego who understood the concept of direct democracy. Most just want to get stuff done, and the most efficient system for that is fascism, so that's their system of choice.
Very limited, pessimistic perspective you've developed there. I didn't expect much from OSD, but was very happy with some of the turnout. Not bad at all considering the city's history.
I've had my own reasons for not visiting lately, and have no idea where you come up with the conclusion about people preferring "fascism" there.
Agree with you about most people not getting what direct democracy and anarchism are, but what do you expect? Generations upon generations of ignorant, fearful propaganda drilled into them at every opportunity.
Give people time, tolerance, and good reasons to finally listen to the truth.
The reaction of expecting all to come prepared and of like mind, crystal clear on the message and means, is as unreasonable as the major media's slant on demanding Occupy groups agree on One Strong Demand and identifiable Leaders overnight.
OWS should be used as an experiment and a lesson that shows exactly what's wrong with US politics.
The MSM supports you as does obama,
The "anarchists" are often agents provocateur. We Truthers have been at this longer than OWS. We understand the problem better and are trying to educate you. Yes, 9/11 has EVERYTHING to do with what is going on with our government and economy today. If you don't understand 9/11 you don't have a clue.
I think that's the difficulty with OWS. If you don't have a clear message, people who do will use the momentum to build their cause. I blame Alex Jones.
I understand what you find irritating about truthers, they do suck majorly and are essentially mentally handicapped (they have no logic, just like many zealous religious followers), but, I'm curious, what bothers you about the anarchists?
Anarchists do suck majorly and are essentially mentally handicapped (they have no logic, just like many zealous religious followers)
Truthers are ok...
Come on man, be more creative!
More creative than that? Nah, impossible!
Ah shucks! I guess I can't expect much from a teenage conspiracy theorist. Ah well, you'll grow tall one day. Make sure you eat your momma's carrots before your pudding.
<Sigh> You just went full retard, never go full retard...