Forum Post: Fight Pepper Spray Attacks with Ammonia Ballons and Water in the Cold
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 19, 2011, 9:59 a.m. EST by tesn1
(212)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
A suggestion was made that if police attack with pepper spray, the counter should be made with ballons filled with Ammonia. This will soak and office in the cold and the ammonia which is non lethal and annoying will make the back off.
It is not a form of aggression but a form of protection. In NY a cold wet police officer who has to get his clothes off to rid himself of the ammonia smell that is tearing his eyes will very quickly elinimate all police. If a large group of officers were doused they would have no choice but to back off.
Water alone in the cold will do this. You cannot stay in the cold for long if you are wet and the clothing they wear soaks easily.
This kind of advocacy serves the interests of those who benefit from the politics of division. It does not serve the interest of the Occupy Movement and its commitment to non-violence.
I understand the sentiment - if you, personally, have been bloodied at the hands of police officials then it is quite understandable to desire retaliation.
You must consider that those in uniform, when establishing a line, as individuals, are confronting what in their eyes is a mob. They react, in part, on the basis of the emotion this confrontation generates.
AS do we.
They also operate in a top down command structure - regardless of their personal feelings.
Yet they are in fact a part of the 99. You cannot reach across the divide that exists with retaliation.
WE MUST bend, and in bending, begin the process of subversion. We can only do that with truth.
They are union members - the repelican party has attempted to end all collective bargaining in the workplace. This affects them directly.
They are parents, they are children. Repelican policy has direct influence on their lives to the harm of people they love.
I urge you to FOCUS.
And if you remain intent on acts of retaliation, hoping to spin them with dialogue and create the appearance they are something other than retaliation, then I suggest you take this matter to your own GA.
Civil Disobedience is definitely not easy. If you do that the obvious response from the police would be extreme violence and beatings. I wouldn't try that. The idea is to let the police always make themselves look bad as they have done, but in order to have that then the protests must go on. That's why I have bookmarked this site to see what is being planned for future protests.
Put the crack pipe down. You truly have no clue about the real world.
Pepper spray is banned for use in war by Article I.5 of the Chemical Weapons Convention which bans the use of all riot control agents in warfare whether lethal or less-than-lethal. In the US, when pepper spray is used in the workplace, OSHA requires a pepper spray MSDS be available to all employees
MSDA sheets are available to employees. Not available to crowds. Pepper spray, CS and CN chemical agents are non lethal when used in outdoor settings and wind direction plays an important role in delivering these agents and how effective these agents can be. Pepper Spray can be flushed with water. CS and CN is just fresh air. You still have no clue about the real world and it's stupid to suggest to anyone to hurt a police officer. It's just an asshole statement on your part.
MSDS-Material Data Safety Sheets are avail. to everyone, go to the mfg. website. More info: email me
The MSDS sheets is not what this is about. You are not entitled to a MSDS sheet prior to the dispersion of chemical agents in the direction you are standing. The main point is that you are acting like an asshole when you suggest harming anyone for doing their job by throwing an unknown liquid in their direction. It's also stupid to suggest any tactic to hurt a police officer.
Was not directing commentary on OWS offensive action, I would want to know what the pepper spray had in it so I could be proactive in treating side effects. Let me be clear, I believe in a NON VIOLENT revolution. I regret you took it the wrong way.
It's not that I take things the wrong way. I take things seriously. Chemical agents can be delivered in numerous ways. Aerosols, liquid, spray and blast dispersal are a few ways to effectively deliver these agents. Pepper Spray can be treated with water. Chemical agents like CN or CS are attached to dust particles when delivered in aerosols. I take it seriously because these chemical agents are not used to hurt anyone. It's not like the military is going to drop some colored coded green DM on protesters. Bottom line is that police officers have a job to do. They are not there to have objects or liquids thrown on them or even at them.
OneVoice: I certainly agree with you, I take responsibility I didn't word my answer appropriately. I'm from the generation of agent orange, and what remains of those men are sadly broken. I think what the OP regards as fair play is warfare. The police are doing their jobs, just like the rest of us. It would be barbaric to even suggest chem. warfare against law enforcement, this movement needs to be peaceful.
Concentrated Ammonia can be dangerous. It is not the same as naturally occurring ammonia. It can damage an eye or poison a person if it gets in their mouth. Most important, it would be considered assault on a police officer.
The water balloons are a great idea.
They have water cannons. OWS has water balloons.
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Ammonia is not toxic and is naturally occurring.
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LOL, Pepper spray is toxic and I love controversey.