Forum Post: Felons who have done their time have voting rights.
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 15, 2011, 2:57 a.m. EST by TheEvilFuckaire
(208)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution The 13th amendment says basically you may only be made a slave by being convicted of a crime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution The 15th amendment says you may not be denied the right to vote based on previous condition of servitude.
Since the only legal form of servitude is the result of a conviction under the law, and prior servitude may not be used to keep a person from voting. A person who is no longer under servitude to the state has a right to vote.
[-] BlueRose 1 points 21 minutes ago
I registered people to vote for a long time, and I STILL do not understand how this works. Some say a felon can never vote again, some say you have to get your rights reinstated, some say it is up to the state?
Yes, it's true that the voting is regulated under States laws.However, almost all of the States in the USA allow people with felony convictions the right to vote and run for office by operation of the law (automatically) or by application after serving their sentence or probation. What States and the federal government must really do is remove the definition of "felony" from our criminal codes as this is too regressive and too punitive and today it doesn't mean anything anymore because any action leading to a sentence or possible sentence to more than a year in jail is classified as a "felony". Most people think that a felony is a violent crime which is not true. Recently President Obama pardoned a man who cut a penny in a half because under federal laws doing this is a felony and federal felonies can never be removed/erased through Certificates of Good Conduct, Certificates of Relief from Criminal Disabilities or expungments. State felonies can be expunged though,not all of them.
Just that the federal government( Congress) doesn't offer second chances or even first-time offender status. This is one more reason why we have to kick out all of those 535 skunks from the U.S. Congress and elect our own OWS-Global Revolution people.
When you register to vote in the elections of Washington DC's federal elections, do you know what rights you are waiving and what additional implied consent you are giving?
"This is one more reason why we have to kick out all of those 535 skunks from the U.S. Congress and elect our own OWS-Global Revolution people."
You're getting warmer.....
Wow I had to look up the penny thing for myself! http://articles.latimes.com/2010/dec/05/nation/la-na-coin-pardon-20101205
1 you need to get your rights reinstated. This is a long drawn out process.
2 If convicted of a felony, you aren't allowed to vote in a lot of states- forget running for office- case in point, when Bush "won" the second election. A lot of votes in Bush's brother's state, Florida. A lot of votes were "lost". What they didn't tell you is a whole bunch of those votes were thrown out, because the voter name was "too close" to the name of a felon- Chad S. Mason would be turned into Charles Manson. The best part to that ruse was the two individuals didn't even have to be in the same state(some were across the country)
3 The government owes you nothing for first time offenses. If the local court wants to let you off easy, it's up to them. Especially in crime, circumstances can vary too wildly for first-timers.
4 Your OWS people can't even agree on one single thing. They would run the country into the ground faster than the government already is. Not to mention a lot of what they say smacks of communism (despite their claims of it not).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-3hZsXrxaI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mkRFCtl2MI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SQqjTxI3vc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/
http://blog.thezeitgeistmovement.com/
http://www.thevenusproject.com/
[-] TheEvilFuckaire 1 points 50 minutes ago
States should not be able to usurp rights guaranteed by the constitution. Here is another example of rights we have that have been ignored. Article 4 Sections 1 and 2
Section. 1. Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
Section. 2.The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
All states are required to respect the laws of other states and the people are to be governed by the least restrictive law available in any state. So if I cannot be arrested for it in one state I cannot be arrested for it in any state.
This is why we have to organize our own political party,this is what I've been saying since day one, start a membership drive and run our people for all the political offices available and change this unconstitutional,evil,oppressive,regressive,inhumane system at the Federal and State level. It must be done. We cannot allow just a few tyrants in the U.S. Congress and State legislatures to keep 300+ millions of us under their rule. We have to kick them all out if we want a fair, equitable government and just laws.
Pedophiles and murderers?
I personally don't think pedophiles and murders should get out of prison at all, so the servitude in those cases should remain permanent. The 15th amendment only applies to prior conditions of servitude. What about an 18 year old who gets caught with some small amount of drugs and serves 5 years? Is that a horrible enough crime to loose your rights as an American Citizen permanently?
Obviously not everything is black and white. I was referring to pedophiles and murderers not stupid teenagers.
[-] necropaulis 1 points 10 minutes ago
1 you need to get your rights reinstated. This is a long drawn out process.
2 If convicted of a felony, you aren't allowed to vote in a lot of states- forget running for office- case in point, when Bush "won" the second election. A lot of votes in Bush's brother's state, Florida. A lot of votes were "lost". What they didn't tell you is a whole bunch of those votes were thrown out, because the voter name was "too close" to the name of a felon- Chad S. Mason would be turned into Charles Manson. The best part to that ruse was the two individuals didn't even have to be in the same state(some were across the country)
Not true. Most States except one or two give back the right to vote and run for office after serving the sentence or probation. It's a fact. After all who give those legislators the right to deprive people of their citizenship rights ?
A few people cannot enslave 300+ millions of Americans. That's why the OWS-Global Revolution Movement has to address these important issues when when will get together in Congress next year in Philadelphia, PA.
It appears that you're not looking for changes to our regressive,oppressive status quo.
States should not be able to usurp rights guaranteed by the constitution. Here is another example of rights we have that have been ignored. Article 4 Sections 1 and 2
Section. 1. Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
Section. 2.The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
All states are required to respect the laws of other states and the people are to be governed by the least restrictive law available in any state. So if I cannot be arrested for it in one state I cannot be arrested for it in any state.
Generally it is only part true that people can vote after getting out of prison. The states can and do impose individual restrictions. some more onerous than others.
Constitutional rights are a fantasy where voting rights are concerned.
Here in Pennsylvania the state constitution is unequivocal about suffrage:
"Elections shall be free and equal; and no power, civil or military, shall at any time interfere to prevent the free exercise of the right of suffrage." http://sites.state.pa.us/PA_Constitution.html
But state law does prevent people in prisons and on parole from voting.
According to the U.S. Elections Project of the George Mason Univ. in 2008 http://elections.gmu.edu/Turnout_2008G.html
Prison 1,605,448
Probation 2,451,085
Parole 627,680
Total Ineligible Felon 3,144,831
Post incarceration is a small part of the issue of using felon populations to subvert American elections. People in prisons are counted in the census as being in the rural conservative county where the prison is. they are not counted in the urban home population. This gives the rural legislators an advantage in apportionment. they have thousands of minorities in their populations that they simply do not have to campaign to. A smaller base voter population to get a majority within.
See: Prison Policy Initiative http://www.prisonpolicy.org/
This site provides materials on how prison populations undermine apportionment, voting populations and distribution of population based block grant monies to poverty oppressed versus less disadvantaged rural communities.
[-] FrogWithWings 1 points 0 minutes ago
Did you know that in many states, you lose your voting "rights" and ability to sit on a jury, by being convicted of certain misdemeanors?
Not only this if one buys pain pills or gets prescription for pain pills or uses pot and the police knows it he /she cannot legally possess a firearm even though we have a Second Amendment which basically grants anyone of us the RIGHT to be armed for our own defense and the defense of the State. But the evil U.S. "criminal "Supreme Court doesn't think so. And many more oppressive laws. Solution: we have to kick all of them out.
Did you know that in many states, you lose your voting "rights" and ability to sit on a jury, by being convicted of certain misdemeanors?
Insanity. This is what we are killing innocent people for in the ME.
[-] BlueRose 1 points 7 minutes ago
Wow I had to look up the penny thing for myself! http://articles.latimes.com/2010/dec/05/nation/la-na-coin-pardon-20101205
This tells you how backwards and oppressive our criminal laws are!!! We still operate under the cruel, ancient anglo-saxon laws. Even in the UK they don't even have these laws anymore, but here nothing changes. We have to make these changes.
And just think, our current leaders actually brag about destroying our money!!! Hysterical.
Thats why they have hte ridges on the outside of the coins, so no one can shave them.
I registered people to vote for a long time, and I STILL do not understand how this works. Some say a felon can never vote again, some say you have to get your rights reinstated, some say it is up to the state?
Prisoners should always have the right to vote.
I disagree although I believe that any persons incarcerated by an Unconstitutional Article IV court, acting not in law, but under the color of law, could be freed if attorneys were not officers of said courts with a sworn oath to uphold and support them.
There is a difference between lawful and legal.
See my response:
"Because if so many people end up in prison that their vote actually changes something, than there's clearly something wrong with the system. The population of a prison should have little impact on the election. And exactly. They can go arrest everyone who made an appearance at an Occupy movement, toss them in a "FEMA camp" and strip their right to vote. It's absolutely worth allowing a minority of murderers to vote in order to give voting rights to people who vote for legalizing drugs, or are political prisoners."
Prisoner votes impact the overall so minimally, that in the case where they affect the election turn out, there is clearly an issue with the prison system or the amount of people in prison.
Understand, when you hear Dr Paul repeat that, "we've lost The Rule Of Law", this is of which he is speaking.
The reason so many people are incarcerated in America is that it was part of a plan, many years ago, and divorcing common law from our justice system was a means to that end.
In common law, it is unlawful to bring harm to others or the property of others. There are no such things as victimless crimes. That is the way our nation ran for roughly the first 80 years of being established.
Now if our justice system was still this way, the only persons incarcerated would be there to protect society from them and therefore, there would be no reason for them to have voting rights, at least not while incarcerated.
Your position makes it clear that you do not believe in the system, and you shouldn't. It's about making money for very few, not serving law for the greater good of society.
Illegal comes from codes or statutes and can result in a person being a criminal for crimes of which no victim or harm exists. Like smoking a joint, growing a pot plant, etc. If I make a cannon in my shop, have I harmed anyone? No, but, then the ATF comes in and gives such a crafty person 20 years of hard time.
Here's my electoral system.
Every citizen, when they turn 18, votes once. They only get one vote. And every 4 years, they add up all votes based on your registered address and tally every 2 or 4 years.
If you change your address, you just pick from a new list at the same time. If your party dissolves or independent drops, your vote defaults to "none of the above" until you change it.
What's the catch? You can change your vote at any time. Downside, people could easily find out what your vote is based on your address.
Well, we certainly have the technology used even in congress to handle voting, electronic and quick like. Do you recall Ross Perot wanting to take apart congress and the senate and allow the people to vote on all issues via an electronic town square?
Pedophiles and murders?
Im sure there are plenty of people who have killed someone, but have a better understanding of politics than most of the sheeple.
Probably the pedis too.
Now should they be allowed? Im not sure. Personally, I say no. But in the interest of being the land of freedom and democracy, maybe.
I say no. There are just some things that ruin everything for an individual and those are two of them.
Political prisons? Protesters? Pot smokers? The percent of people in prison so be so minimal that a pedophile voting democrat would not affect the election results.
What for? Why is that good that a murderer or a rapist can influence the fate of your society? Someone who has proven that s/he has no regards for others' rights (to life, health, ownership etc.), why should s/he decide whom to have power?
Of course, in America, most of the "prisoners" are in prison because they consumed marijuana, and this indeed is horrendously stupid. But there is a point in restricting the rights of criminals in the more traditional sense.
Because if so many people end up in prison that their vote actually changes something, than there's clearly something wrong with the system. The population of a prison should have little impact on the election.
And exactly. They can go arrest everyone who made an appearance at an Occupy movement, toss them in a "FEMA camp" and strip their right to vote. It's absolutely worth allowing a minority of murderers to vote in order to give voting rights to people who vote for legalizing drugs, or are political prisoners.
This means that we need to lessen the number of prisoners who are closed for dumb reasons, not necessarily to extend their voting rights.
If you will be put in a FEMA camp (along with all the other "unruly subjects"), I doubt that camp guards will make provisions for inmates so as to be sure their votes count. The goal is not to have much declared rights for camp inmates - the goal is not to have camps.
It also states that once you do your time, you are a full citizen, with full rights. I was charged, found guilty, didn't spend a day in jail(outside of when I was arrested). This was 10 years ago, and I still can't do shit. People talk about expungement. This takes anywhere between 2 and 4 years of intense scruntiny(interviews with you; friends/family(who then are investigated); job history, etc) before the governor even gets your file on his/her desk. And then it's up to them to sign it. In my state the success rate is about 32%, if that.
The Revolution has a new theme song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L-GOHa5-YQ
http://occupywallst.org/forum/in-the-name-of-allah/
The Revolution starts here!
You are aware that you are openly advising people to commit felonies right?