Forum Post: Russ Feingold May Be The Only Leader Who Can Rally The Occupy Movement Behind a Common Purpose.
Posted 13 years ago on Dec. 3, 2011, 4:23 p.m. EST by puff6962
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I have wracked my brain and have posted topics such as, Who Will Be Our MLK, and I do think I have come up with an answer. (Forgive me if you have been posting this all along).
Russ Feingold's bio is right (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russ_Feingold), his politics are right, and he has already voiced support for the Occupy Movement. Please read this from The Washington Post:
Russ Feingold endorses Occupy Wall Street: “This will make the Tea Party look like ... a tea party.” By Greg Sargent
“I’m really encouraged by what I’m seeing. People around the country are finally organizing to stand up to the huge influence of corporations on government and our lives. This kind of citizen reaction to corporate power and corporate greed is long overdue.”
That’s Russ Feingold, who spoke with me yesterday in order to voice his strong support for Occupy Wall Street, making him one of the most prominent liberal Democrats in the country to endorse the protests. Feingold’s strong backing will be seen as significant by the movment’s supporters, because thus far few elected Dems have publicly voiced support for it.
Feingold’s career has been all about fighting the influence of corporate money over politics — he championed campaign finance reform, opposed deregulation and voted against Obama’s Wall Street reform bill because it didn’t go far enough — so he has an interesting perspective on the budding movement.
Feingold rejected the argument — made even by some of Occupy Wall Street’s sympathizers — that it has failed to articulate a clear message or agenda, arguing that the coalescing of outrage itself is the story and the message here, even if it seems incohate at times.
“The guys who are protesting are not filing legal briefs,” he said. “They are expressing the populist, genuine view that people have been ripped off. It’s a fundamental identification of the fact that people are getting taken for a ride by powerful interests who are getting away with murder.”
“The worm is finally turning on the nonsense of blaming the wrong people for what happened in 2008,” said Feingold, whose new group, Progressives United, was formed to counter the Citizens United decision and corporate influence over politics. “The American people are saying, wait, we have the boot of corporations on our necks, and we’re sick of it. This is a significantly coherent message at the beginning of something like this.”
Feingold said he was moved to speak out because of condescending media coverage of the issue, adding that it’s crucial to understand that Occupy Wall Street is rooted in the emotional reality of people’s everyday experiences of the economy.
“This is a populist movement based on genuine suffering and fear,” he said. “Anyone who really lives out in working America knows that people are feeling very scared. This movement would probably not have this fuel if not for that reality.”
Asked whether the Obama administration and the Democratic Party’s insufficiently confrontational approach towards Wall Street is partly to blame for all the frustration, Feingold noted that there are still signficant differences between the two parties. But he offered Obama some advice.
“The White House should realize that this would be beneficial to the president and his reelection chances if he recognizes how correct the protesters are to be upset,” Feingold said. “It would be a mistake to try to coopt this. I’m hoping a mass movement will encourage the White House to listen to and respond to these concerns. It would be politically smart and the right thing to do.”
“This is like the Tea Party — only it’s real,” Feingold said. “By the time this is over, it will make the Tea Party look like ... a tea party.”
FOR MORE ABOUT RUSS FEINGOLD:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russ_Feingold
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BX_bWBx2zo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFOW_BmWAsc
Russ Feingold was one of only eight U.S. Senators who, in 1999, voted AGAINST the repeal of Glass-Steagall. Had the Congress listened to Feingold in 1999 the economic and financial collapse of America would not have happened in 2008.
The evil cowardly dwarf ronpaul, on the other hand, abstained from voting rather than alienate his banker friends and the GOP.
SEE: The Congress That Crashed America http://home.ptd.net/~aahpat/aandc/congcrash.html
Feingold also voted against the invasion of Iraq.
I'm glad if Feingold is with us, and I think that we have many leaders already in the national scene, including also Elizabeth Warren. I would gladly support a Feingold/Warren ticket next November. We don't have much time to organize though.
I plan to express my disapproval of the Democrats for their not giving us a presidential primary by changing my registration from Independent to Democrat so that I can Write-in Elizabeth Warren for president.
Obama has never reflected or respected my social justice values.
Warren/Feingold or Feingold/Warren for president in 2012.
Doing this in the primary makes use of the primary to express the values that are important to me to the Democrats. If enough people use the Write-In option the parties will be forced to count and report those votes which will give Americans a clearer idea of the level of discontent that exists in the voting population.
We can be discontented dissidents without disconnecting from the nation. Engaged (d)emocratic dissidents are totally out of the control of the corrupt parties and their Wall Street masters.
I like that idea, might end up doing that too.
The greatest changes in American history have, outside of wars, occurred when a "Nixon went to China."
In other words, it takes someone who is seen as a strident member of one side to enact real changes leading to the expression of the other side's views.
Richard Nixon was a staunch anti-communist......the opening of dialogue with Communist China. Franklin Roosevelt was a member of the upper crust.....the New Deal and the middle class. Lyndon Johnson was a conservative Southerner.......medicare and civil rights.
It will take a conservative leader who will flip towards sympathy with the ideals of OWS to sneak this enchilada past the goalie.
Forget about the presidency. Focus on the democratic primaries. Please trust me.....look at how quickly the teabuggers were able to shape the discussion on the conservative side. The key is the primaries.
Puff is offering sage advice, only the foolish can't see that.
I'm really not sure that 'sage' is his only herb of choice so 'thyme' for a change perhaps ? ;-)
I prefer to look past the stuff Puff puffs. When I do that, and actually read his posts, I find a galore of historical perspective, economic knowledge, and wisdom. Plus, Puff's funny as hell.
The key is to read the troll posts and Castanza them.....just do the opposite.
damn. that's where I've been screwing up. I always end up going all kramer on them. it's hit or miss.
Hey, I resemble that remark.
I second that emotion
I didn't figure that your given moniker was an accident ;-)
Ya. It took a lot of work, actually.
Lol & u seem like a 'Bit of a Mushroom' and a Fun-guy ! Have you also been 'kept in the dark and fed SH!T' ?
Or given your propensity to post incessant pictures in order to "troll" posts you don't like ... perhaps it is yourself who seeks to do just that to others !
Gnothi Seauton ...
I actually don't troll anybody's posts. I think you are referring to my impostor, puff6269. The little guy is like the Allstate mayhem character. I've been chewed out by quite a few people I've never met thanks to him. I would change my name, but I worked hard for this one.
@ p6962 : This [ http://occupywallst.org/forum/puff-on-the-stupidity-of-the-ows-movement/ ] is your stalker, (puff6269) right ?! I don't like him either and indeed alluded to his 'trolling' in the subsequent thread ! What a Creep ! You 'puff6962', have my apologies and sympathy ! pax et lux et a big stick !!
Thanks for you patience. Maybe, in the next life, his mother will use spermicidal jelly.
Now how do the younglings say it ? "Eeeeeewurgh !!!"
Maybe 'in future' you can make make like a neutrino (travel faster than light and go back in time !) and make sure his mother Never met his father !! In 'fact' perhaps if she was attractive and game you could ... naaah, too complicated ! lol ..
ab absurdum .
lol
I think that I've noticed other posters reefer (ahem) to the 'alter-ego' you are alluding to. How incredibly irksome for you ! Perhaps your doppelgänger is the one with the 'meth psychosis' !! Ho-hmmm and ad absurdummmb !!!
Hey lay off puffy, he makes a good point.
If you want to make fun of drug users, you can direct it this way. I firmly support random drug testing. As in I like to randomly test everything that comes by.
My drug dealer went into rehab recently....He didn't sell as much as I thought he would though....
haha! yup, you know its hard times when.... ;p
HEY! Don't make jokes that are not funny! I have serious drug problems!
"Now, where the hell are they?!?!"
Your name wouldn't be Mr Mojo Risen, wold it?
umm nope, but I did just learn from Google that is a bejumbled way of spelling Jim Morrison who I think felt much the same way as I do about the issue. :)
That's why I asked. Jim was known for taking anything anyone offered him and swallowing immediately. Even Grace Slick was shocked by his willingness to toss anything in his mouth.
The anagram came from a conversation he allegedly had with Ray Manzarek where he supposedly told Manzarek that he was tied of the fame and grind and was going to fake his death and change his name to Mr. Mojo Risen. Since his death, people who want to believe Morrison is still alive somewhere beleive he followed through on it. Manzarek (to my knowledge) has never confirmed that the conversation took place but he has said that Morrison had said something along those lines.
To fuel the fires, the anagram was used in the song LA Woman (which, by the way, was not about a woman at all but about LA) which was Morrison's last album and last single.
haha well thanks for that little tid bit, you gotta be pretty bad if you manage to shock Grace Slick over something like that. I may have a little ways to go yet before I hit that point. :)
I'm not gonna lie, if I had a N20 tank and a few balloons around here i'd probably be either passed out or having a much better Saturday night, but I do have to be somewhat discriminating sometimes.
Lol, please see above and as I said to 'puffy' below : "I defer to your obvious knowledge in these matters. Suffice it to say ; Keep It Organic !!" verbum satis sapienti ;-)
Your the perfect figurehead for this movement, maybe thats why your head is so screwed up.
Naw, it's probably the business degree... unlike most illegal drugs one too many NPV calculations actually does tend to rot the brain....
I'm glad you think so highly of me tho, but I still think we need to keep it leaderless. :)
"Net Present Value" ?! If only the Thieving, Cheating Bankster Corporations had the 'Basic Financial Ethics' to employ such notions and considerations with their (inter alia) abject failure to 'Mark To Market' price their "Assetts" (and there is more than one good joke in there !!), rather than their current highly larcenous and unethical practices !!
Maan, Goldman Sucks and co. have so much to answer for, that it's difficult to imagine where they're going to run to when The Rest of Us, wise up !!!
multum in parvo ...
yes, that i can get behind, even with out a business degree, I never liked Mark to market methods. isn't that how ENRON made their books look good even when their business modal was a joke?
haha ya, now that you mention it, their complete ignorance of basic financial principles really makes me wonder if they are not hired on condition that they submit to a frontal lobotomy.
Like, I dunno about them but the take away message in my derivatives class was that you would have to be a moron to speculate in that market... its for hedging; and there is a trail of dead banks which would attest to that if they wern't, well dead.
I think Corzine probably did not factor OWS into account when he did his risk analysis under the assumption that someone would probably just print him the difference plus a nice fat holiday bonus if he returned empty handed from the giant casino land in the sky.
@lexrai : Lol & I think that you may enjoy : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAGxfiKNqhY - where "Max Keiser and co-host Stacy Herbert discuss financial eugenics and secret Fed loans AND In the second half of the show, Max talks to Karl Denninger about Corzine's MF-GLOBAL, pepper spraying banksters and Occupy Wall Street."
"Innovative Financial Products" such as the 'Dog-SH!T Derivatives' like 'Mortgage Backed Securities' ; 'Collateralised Debt Options' ; 'Credit Default Swaps' and the like are really, new and barely disguised Ponzi Schemes in order to Sell, Trade and Speculate with "Compound Interest Generating USURIOUS DEBT" ... and boy, whAt a CONcept that is !!
These Bankster $cum can only operate in The Dark and Shadows. When The 99% drag these Fraudulent F**k-Wits and their Nefarious, Usurious, Practices out into the light, They & Their 'House of Cards' will Implode and Spontaneously Self-Combust ... and it can't happen soon enough !!
dum spiro, spero ...
sweet, I will defiantly check that out. I agree, the sooner these financial parasites head back to country clubs the better off we'll be.
FYI Capital Account had a great episode the other day analyzing the Euro Crisis and why these big banks are probably gonna start dropping like flies in the not so distant future. Sounds like we'll get our wish, especially if people are still out in the streets at election time discouraging politicians from bailing them out again. http://rt.com/programs/capital-account/capitalaccount-12111
Incidentally, I also learned how come Goldman Sucks is called a Giant Evil Vampire Squid, I laughed so hard I will probably never forget about it either! :)
That Squid Quote, bears repeating :
“The first thing you need to know about Goldman Sachs is that it's everywhere. The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money” : Journalist Matt Taibbi, profiling the bank for Rolling Stone magazine in 2009.
The New Prime Minister of Italy is Ex-Goldman Sux ( http://www.zerohedge.com/news/mario-monti-italys-new-prime-minister ) and The New Greek PM served as the "Senior Economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston" { http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas_Papademos }. Banksters are now Openly Usurping The 'Democratically' Elected as we all head further into Bankster Despotism and ... Fascism !
spero meliora ...
Corzine's blunder will go down in history as an example of what happens to a speculator when he's handed a pile of cash.
He will be very lucky to avoid jail time.
Nothin to do eith any degree, your oposts show nothing except unintelligence.Lowly would be the right term.
Come on, even you have to admit that was a pretty funny response.
I concur.
in case you have't noticed, OWS is a leaderless movement.
wrong. we all have a leader. he's in the white house. we need somebody new. Russ Feingold.
haha
No, it is not. It is not even a movement. It is currently only frustration without a suitable outlet.
for now.
I'm not a fan of the archaic political system we're working with (I also put my Commodore 64 to rest a while back), but Russ Feingold seems to have some common sense and willingness to fight corruption. If I have to vote within the system, he'd get my vote.
Yes, but vote within the system where your vote has the greatest impact.....primaries, particularly off-cycle or off-presidential-cycle primaries.
Please see my forum topic about a way to take over a political party.....OWS could tip the balance in our political process and that is what is necessary to effect change is an expedient and nonviolent fashion.
puff - the only one I prefer to RF is Elizabeth Warren -
but I think she is spoken for. [ or maybe Barney Frank ? ]
Beware the passion of the anti-government zealots -
right wing OR anarchist OR idealist OR dreamer.
Sadly, their religion blinds them to reality.
The protestants tried to overthrow catholicism -
last time I checked, it was still there.
I truly wish I knew what to say to them to get them to
"come down to earth" and help us work
to achieve the ACHIEVEABLE
“Democracy destroys itself because it abuses its right to freedom and equality. Because it teaches its citizens to consider audacity as a right, lawlessness as a freedom, abrasive speech as equality, and anarchy as progress.”
Isocrates said that 2500 years ago.....if only some echo would reach these people.
More diectly to your point on Russ Feingold: I have respect for him. I think he is as much a man of integrity as anyone in poltics can be. I do not agree with everything he says but that's okay -- he wouldn't agree with everything I said either.
Another good source to read concerning democracy is Voltaire. He hated democarcy -- called it the rule of the mob -- and he does a pretty damned good job of defending his views.
“Democracy... while it lasts is more bloody than either [aristocracy or monarchy]. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide.”
John Adams said that one.
Yes, he did, and he knew exactly what he was saying -- thanks.
That is why this entire notion of some digital democracy is just horseshit. That is why OWS needs some organization. That is why the Occupy movement could go the way of Justin Beiber.
Now THAT's a scary thought!
I agree, but I heard a radio piece in which a PoliSci professor who specializes in protest movements was interviewed and he made a point of saying that the Occupy Movement is beginning in pretty much the same way as all other major movements in this country -- Women's Suffrage, Civil Rights, Anti-Vietnam, etc -- and that it will begin to coalesce and take on a definite shape and purpose. I think we're beginning to see that happen now -- at least I hope so.
Of course, I also have to point out that it's not going to happen on it's own; we have to help form it and shape it into what we need it to be.
That's the big trick -- but I think it can and will be done.
Maybe.
maybe digital democracy as a voting mechanism is a little absurd, but I believe an internet forum as a town hall environment has potential.
No filters. Read my forum topic on Justin Beiber.....
Every paradise has it's serpent and the snake of the internet is NOISE.
I take noise is meant to be every yahoo and his illegitimate red headed step child gets a say, but if only registered voters with credential verification soft wear is implemented and some sort of local government moderating guidelines were enforced, while information verification was also part of the mix, i believe it has potential to get people with different political beliefs talking and forming closer ties. i believe this only because before I came to this site, i was a lot more radical than I am now. coming here, even with all the noise, was very therapeutic. but i have not read your post that you suggested.
It's down the page, but worth reading....maybe.
I think it was called, "Why the Occupy Movement could go the way of Justin Beiber."
If I cross it, I'll link it to you.
Politics is the art of the possible.
Unfortunately, the Republican party is behaving more like a CULT than a political entity.
I have seen nothing like it during my lifetime.
These guys really just want to bring down the system so that they can build something new in their own image.
It is pure evil and extremely dangerous.
Russ Fiengold is by far my most favored politician. We do need him!!!
It's not a surprise he defends OWS. Bernie Sanders is another great politician!!!
You're right....I love Bernie Sanders.....but his party affiliation is socialist.
And, if occupy wall street is to morph into something beyond symbolism, it must seize the reins of our existing political system. It must learn all of the strategies and mechanisms of our political process and leverage it's numbers to the greatest possilbe effect.
That means huge involvement in the upcoming Congressional primary races and crafting a message that will resonate with moderate, as well as liberal Americans.
If it doesn't convert Grandma and Grandpa, then a movement has very little chance of changing the world.
Unfortunately, Grandma and Grandpa are from an era when Americans didn't like socialists too much.
It's same label pinned on Teddy Roosevelt when he targeted the robber barons to end to their tyranny and turning hard working Americans into slaves!!!
The truth will stand, we just have to explain it and how it works.
That was before Fox news and Stalin.
LoL so right you are. It seems we always do repeat our past mistakes for some insane reason. LoL
lol.
In 1850, "socialism" was the attack used against women who wanted to vote and own property. That would have been several great's before Grandma & Grandpa.
Just a little history, because it amused me.
The Right always needs an enemy.
Go Feingold
Russ Feingold is a great and strong choice. I have followed him for many years. I guarantee that he's on our side. No doubt. Many of the Tea Baggers persuasion will run in here and troll me to death because they fear Russ, he makes a world of sense, and articulates it well. The tea baggers make up the bulk of the trolls here. I say troll because of their incessant trash mouths. We can debate them away easily so they resort to their troll-like mud pit rebuttals. They are hard to disinfect especially because many of us don't come for the mud pit wrestling although we have to from time to time. Since they are accepted here we have no choice
Very good thread. The trolls will be all over this one.
Puff is very perceptive and practical. Do what works! I took his idea a step further -
Signed Pledge From Democratic U.S. Congressional Candidates Running In Primaries In 2012 For The Support Of OWS. The Quickest Path To REAL change!
"I pledge in writing that if I am elected to the U.S. Congress my top priorities will be passing legislation that includes the following:
Get Big Money Out Of Federal Politics - Pass the Fair Elections Now Act (S. 750 and H.R. 1404). A law where political candidates for federal office would raise a large number of small contributions from their communities in order to qualify for Fair Elections funding. Contributions are limited to $100.00. Strictly voluntary by the candidate to avoid legal issues. Revise the Fair Elections Now Act to include 100% discount (up from 25%) for TV air time for political advertising.
Create Jobs Now - A ten-year federal program that involves a New Works Progress Administration (WPA) and Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) to create over 5 million jobs rebuilding America that includes infrastructure banks run by engineers, not politicians to extricate ourselves from the Great Recession now and increase productivity later. Pay for it by taxing all Wall St. financial transactions at 1%. Raises $400 billion a year. A 3% annual surtax on incomes over $1 million. Raises another $200 billion a year.
End The Housing Crisis Now - Congress can and should modify the bankruptcy laws to allow primary residence mortgages to be eligible for restructuring by making banks lower the principal balance on all underwater mortgages to current market value and refinancing these loans to current market interest rates."
Thanks fwankie,
I think this is very good, by I am deeply afraid of overreach.
Get Money Out (and some strict controls upon lobbying), may realistically all that people can wrap their mind around at this time.
If you begin talking New Deal, you're going to confuse and frighten a lot of people.
This housing crisis is an incredibly difficult problem to solve. I wrote out a solution yesterday and then ran the numbers of what it would cost......staggering.
The problem in pure debt restructurings is that it helps....and in some ways rewards.....those who are in trouble on their mortgage while those who continue to make their payments are left with an overvalued asset being paid for with, essentially, devalued dollars.
The answer requires a method by which everyone could take advantage of the historically low interest rates despite having negative equity in their home.
The only way for all to benefit would be for the home to be appraised and for banks to provide confirming mortgages at that amount. Whatever dollar figure remained between equity value and the original purchase price would be financed directly by the government over a long term and at prevailing mortgage rates. This loan would be treated similar to a student loan and the government, depending upon the financial status of the homeowner, would defer interest for a span of 5 years.
Also, like a student loan, the value could never be "written off" in a bankruptcy. It would follow you during your life and it would be repaid eventually.
This would separate those who need help to stay in their homes from those who just want to walk away while stabilizing the deflationary spiral in home values.
It would circumvent the banks as the secondary loan, provided directly through the government, could not be treated as an immediate liability and would therefore not be reflected in the homeowner's debt ratios.
It's a good idea....I'll formalize and post it.....I do hope it works.
But, this is the only way that I've seen the help those simply underwater on their mortgage (and not punish them) while helping those who are is very deep water and unable to make their current payments.
Until you turn around housing and start putting large numbers of people back to work (by investing in America's infrastructure - something that needs to be done, anyway) home prices will continue to decline and people will not spend, unemployment will remain high and people will not spend and the economy will continue to stagnate
But we have to be very careful here. You cannot flex your muscles until you have power.
So, the very most important thing is to devise a Pledge which will enjoy the broadest support and will give OWS the greatest part in writing these Congressional bills.
Please read my story of the two Bulls. I think it's below here.
I believe Russ Feingold should be part of a leadership group along with Michael Moore and a few others. We need people from different backgrounds, with similar beliefs, that can be trusted by the progressives.
Different personalities, with different career backgrounds ,will bring in more diverse citizens who can identify with one or more members of the group. It will also help to insure that the message that is presented, by the group, will not be stilted in one direction, but will have been informed by a broader outlook.
Remain very far from Michael Moore. I love the guy, but he is a loose cannon and very unpredictable in his remarks.
He could do more damage than good and....he lacks any knowledge of how to negotiate through our government towards achievable objectives.
Michael Moore is refreshing, because of his candor. He doesn't appear to be wrapped up in his self image, and could push the envelope farther then say a career politician, who has a public image to maintain. Having a balance of personalities and backgrounds, in my belief, would resonate well with the American people.
he's a lying blowhard
Michael Moore has no credibility with moderates.....and that is on whom all movements depend.
i'm the 1% im rich$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Yes, but you also be near the front of the line for the guillotine.
me, entrust it to me, i have super powers.
If You Had To Choose Someone To Entrust The Leadership Of The Occupy Movement, Who Would It Be?
My mom!
I would choose Jerry Lewis, because he is Jewish, he raised a lot of money for MDA, he's funny, he quit smoking, the shape of his head is funny, he used to host the Johnny Carson show, and he could manufacture that elixir for OWS that transformed him into Buddy Love in The Nutty Professor. Just imagine an OWS army of Buddy Love clones! Too cool !
Has he, like all of the Republican Presidential candidates, except Dr PauI, signed a "Declaration of Love for Israel"?
Such has me wondering when Islamic Political Groups will force candidates to sign a similar declaration to Allah and/or Muhammad.
Boy, mention a Jew and you bring out the crazies. I'm surprised you guys have the internet in the century you live in. Or has Hitler discovered a time warper in the past and you are using it to harass those of the Jewish faith today.
Oh, is Feingold a Jew? How would I have any idea?
His original last name was Washington, but he thought is sounded too black.
that's funny
I'm a funny person once you get past my lack oh humor.
That is a highly commendable and admirable trait.
I'm likable once people get past the fact that I am merely a cardboard cutout yet still manage regular flatulence. What wins people over is the fact that I make my own clothes.
Interesting. I assume you use breathable fabrics.
It is difficult for me to think that far ahead,being made of cardboard and all.
Hey I've been doing some research on the life of Russ Feingold. He fits the description of the Jewish Messiah perfectly! Our long wait is over. Even the Christians will follow him, since historians have proved that Jesus Christ is a myth. I don't know about Mormons. They seem to prefer Joe Smith.
Stick to the orange pills.
"Russ Feingold Russ Feingold Russ Feingold Russ Feingold Russ Feingold Russ Feingold Russ Feingold Russ Feingold Russ Feingold Russ Feingold Russ Feingold Russ Feingold Russ Feingold Russ Feingold."
Is it just puppy love, or an unhealthy obsession? What part of Russ's body do you find most attractive, puff clone?
His brain....I wish to assimilate it.
Ah, so you are a brain eating zombie? That is so sexy.
http://www.mccullagh.org/photo/1ds-17/zombies-eating-brains
Frank explained it all here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXCvZ0cWM-w
Resistance isn't futile, resistance is voltage divided by amperage.
Okay, so "assimilate" sent me off thinking in odd directions.
I do like what I've read on the Wiki page.
I'm not at all sure the College kids will go for it. They kinda want to start over.
Got my vote (well, if he runs for a national office)!
We don't want him to run for office.....we want him to be a focal point so that other candidates will take note of an emboldened group of young people seeking rational changes in our political and economic systems.
Feingold will be the dignified figure who can provide political clearance and viability to other candidates who will need your support.....particularly in the primaries.
Well, ok let me qualify: "got my vote" of moral support, for whatever that's worth.
Sorry, it's just that the worst thing Feingold could do right now is run again for the Senate. He would be a much more influential voice for the millions of voices who need to speak as one.
Ehhh...no worries: that's what I get for cracking a beer and letting my fastidiousness slip there for a minute!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVJRo4B1qXQ
truth about Russ
A token interviewing a token.
But he is just a man, and he is mortal. But an idea cannot be killed.
George Washington was mortal and.....an idea can be killed very easily. All you have to do is be unclear in how you present it, provide a competing message, discredit it, and ultimately allow the idea to whimper it's way back to the minds of radicals when moderates see no real change coming from it.
Read about William Jennings Bryan and the various populist movements of the 1870's to 1910's. It took a Theodore Roosevelt (who was a mass murderer in the Phillipines and probably contributed to our entry into WWII) to shape realistic changes into governmental action.
It always takes a leader......maybe now, maybe 40 years from now.
Jill Stein!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jill_Stein
http://www.jillstein.org/
It sounds like a reincarnation of Ralph Nader.
I wish she were viable.
I think you will have better luck in the Democratic primaries catching small fish than in landing this flounder.
Appropriate username, Puff.
For all of your: 'hot air'.
This is the only candidate that I've seen yet that mirrors the positions of OWS.
Yes, and she will be decimated without accomplishing any of the things you listed.
Have you ever studied "the politics of the possible?"
This ain't 1980.
People are PISSED OFF!
And many of them are done with politics as usual and with the Democrats as much as the Republicans.
America has woken up to the fact that both of these parties are corrupt and they want real change.
All you will do is freak out the conservatives and moderates and you'll end up with 8 years of Newt Gingrich.
The Newt Gingrich's of this world have but a tenuous hold on power.
One that is rapidly slipping from their grasps.
Do you really believe that you will overthrow a government in this country when all of the gunowners despise you?
A) Who said anything about overthrowing the government?
B) I know plenty of gun owners that are aligned with me in my sociopolitical views
C) More 'hot-air' from our friendly neighborhood Troll: Puff
Ya, I can't wait to see how many of those gun owners place their votes for Jill Stein.
Where do they find idiots like you?
You're not worth another two minutes.
And yet, it probably took you 5 minutes to compose that last message.
Always remember that as you become more effective, you intensify the resistance to you.
2012 is going to be VERY interesting.
Yes, but as a holomorphic, secular/epistemological messiah, it's nice to know that there are thousands of 'me' popping up everywhere.
Occupy, Anonymous, the 99%... The ultimate mind virus.
We cannot be effectively inoculated against.
Capitalism is Dead.
Maybe we should not let OWS have leaders just yet. You never know who is trying to hijack this movement by pretending he is for it only to be the cause of destroying it when in control.
Tunis revolution succeeded without leaders. So did Egypt.
I'm sorry, but the 1917 Revolution produced a democratic government for a spell. The final judgment on the Arab Spring cannot be made until three cycles of elections have been held and the basic human rights of the citizenry have been restored and protected.
Good leaders are better than no leaders.
Must have leaders? Then shouldn’t they be representative of OWS majority: Blacks, Whites, and Hispanics? not Jews. The majority of Wallstreet CEOs are Jewish if you dig. Feingold is Jewish, which is hardly representative of OWS. And being Jewish can have pressure put on him by the bankers and the Fed even if he is not complacent with them.
And I very much doubt that Feingold is sincerely pro OWS.
I could not find a Greg Sargent Russ Feingold story in the Washington Post going back two months.
Didn't I post the link?
& so the occupy movement goes the way of the Tea Party. Welcome to the controlled opposition, carry on doing your part to support the 1%.
You sound like a Townsendite.
Isn't this indirectly supporting an election campaign for 2012?
You're setting the precedent for some brainwashed asshat from the OWS to "off" somebody. Trust me. It's becoming too passive-agressively violent.
He gets my vote, I couldn't believe he didn't get reelected. I've voted for him from the first time he ran. He's just what the ows need. But I think he's running in the next election for sentator. Hopefully my fellow cheeseheads have had enough of the gop.
Agreed.
I'm against Paul for anything, to be honest. The problem I see with his brand of Libertarianism is that it would allow corporations to operate without any oversight at all, which means safety and environmental protections could be openly ignored, there would be no regulation of overtime pay, time off, minimum wage, or any other worker protection. In the community, there would be no safety net for those who are poor or who have special needs. He says the churches and the nonprofits would take care of it, but there are more nonprofits now than at any other time in history and they can't keep up with the demand on their services as it is! If the government safety nets didn't exist, there wouldn't be cracks for people to fall through -- there would be great yawning chasms!
The whole idea of Caveat Emptor sounds great, but for it to work, the "emptors" must be as knowledgeable as those on the supply side of things. A simple scan of any daily newspaper or broadcast will turn up discovery after discovery of one hidden wrongdoing after another. The current condition of the country is a great example -- how many people had the resources, time and knowledge to have looked into the financial sector to make intelligent decisions before all this happened?
It sounds great to say that government should stay out of business and private lives, but the truth of the matter is, there are people out there -- any of whom happen to be decision makers -- who don't give a rat's arse about anyone but themselves and their profit, and without regulation and without laws and without things like unions, it will be those people who control everything -- even more than they do already.
Government has a role as arbiter of a society. Libertarianism dismisses this role and will therefore lead to revolution. The only question is whose revolution.
Damn right. The whole RP thing is a setup to coopt this movement into the dictatorship of RP.
Good point. But I feel there is a larger role for government than aribtor. I use the term "gonvernace" rather than rule because it is a more benign term.
Governance sets a standard for a society. It creates and maintains a framework and a structure for what that society is meant to be. In an extreme example, Nazi Germany and the Stalinist Soviet Union are good examples of societies structured around ideas that most of us think are evil. Still, they set the standard for the citizens over which they ruled.
Conversely, the Nordic countries -- among the freest and most liberal of nations -- also set a standard and create a structure for the citizens to follow; in this case, in some ways (obviously not all) that most people would find, if not beneficial, then benign.
Just as it is the job of a religion to set down rules and guidelines that the adherants can use to navigate their lives, so does a government -- ideally -- set down rules and guidelines that citizens can use to navigate through their society.
Hopefully the government leads by example and serves as a role model for the citizen. I think it's pretty obvious that, in the case of this country, that has not been very successfully done.
Why do you forget that state government is as much a government as federal government is? That's as much of a dangerous misunderstanding as anything else the media feeds you. Ron calls for a shrinking of the federal government and have the states take up the charge for their own styles of governance. As set out by the Constitution the system of individual states with a limited federal government supervising or overviewing them is the 'perfect union.'
It's an experiment in government and should be perfect, if not the best, and I would think the most forward-thinking in the world. Here's a C+P:
The framers knew that "that government is best which governs least". This didn't just mean the scope of government action and interference in the lives of citizens but the /amount/ of citizens it governed. Purely as a way of damage control do we conservatives believe more local government power to be better than larger government power. If one state decides to implement one system of health care or government schooling, drug reform etc. the success/failure of any policy is limited to that state/city etc. In this way there is a competition of ideas between governments. Those who succeed and whose economies grow with more jobs and higher wages will attract more population and will be emulated by other states. Those with failed experiments can be identified and the policy discarded or tried again from a different angle. Why do you insist on federal mandates and laws that destroy the market of ideas and policies?
Unfortunately this experiment hasn't been fully functional in the last century. Given RP's administration it can finally be kick-start and working the way it should be.
And don't give me that crap about anarchy ensuing in the states. You ought to know full well there is a Judicial branch and laws and statutes of limitations in place to stop shenanigans.
Local governments might be able to do something of that nature, but honestly speaking state governments have a penchant for inertia, corruption, and general incompetence that most supporters of hardcore states' rights either aren't familiar with or would prefer to gloss over. Let me give you a few case studies to illustrate what I mean:
New York (my home state) has had three state senators arrested by the FBI on corruption charges (including money laundering) in four months, and a state assemblyman arrested twice in less than a year for similar charges. We also had a state legislator who figured it was cool to beat his wife and then cover for it and Paterson trying to squelch one of his aides over a sexual assault incident, and that's just the stuff over which charges have been brought. Hell, we even sent Spitzer up to Albany to clean things up only to see him booted right back down because he couldn't keep it in his damn pants.
The Empire State is hardly alone; New Jersey's been a mess for God only knows how long. Just Google Operation Bid Rig and you'll see exactly what I mean; 44 people, many of them elected state officials, wound up getting hauled into court (and in many cases convicted) of crap that's not just beyond corrupt but also just plain stupid. On top of all this it's coming out that Jon Corzine's getting raked over the coals over about a billion dollars in missing funds from a hedge fund he ran.
And now I'd like to invite any smug Republicans blaming these debacles on the inherent corruptibility of liberals rather than the dysfunctionality of state governments to fly over eastern North Carolina, home to an unbelievable volume of pig crap (quite literally). Essentially most of eastern North Carolina stinks to high heaven because of hundreds of millions of gallons of pig crap from factory farms is being let to marinate in open-air lagoons and/or sprayed into the air as an aerosol. It's actually gotten to the point of ruining something like nine or ten waterways and causing China-esque air quality problems. North Carolina's only beginning to attack the problem now and it's so little so late that who knows if it'll work?
Finally, who can forget Texas? It's home to (among other things) a completely toothless home contractor fraud regulatory board that charges massive fees to investigate fraud, has no power whatsoever, was created at the behest of one of the worst offenders, and is generally staffed by the buddies of said offenders. What really takes the cake, though, is the leaky nuclear waste dump in Andrews County that happens to be sitting on the aquifer that provides drinking water to seven different states.
My point here is that for every outrageous incident of corruption in DC I can pick fifty or sixty from the various state capitals, and I'd rather worry about cleaning one house with 536 people in it than fifty with God only knows how many different officials. Wouldn't you?
Well, for one thing, I wasn't framing my response to any level of government. You've inferred it, but I said nothing about federal verses state. The only mention I made of federal governments were as examples of liberal contrasting with fascist.
In other posts for other threads here, I've made it very clear that I do not beleive that national governments can function on the levels we need them to do. I have long been an advocate of the City/State form of government and forgetting about a "nation" as we know it.
With that said, my comments hold true no matter what form or size the government: there is a need for a safety net, there is a need for government participation in the welfare of its citizens and there is a need for programs operated by government for the good of citizens. Size means nothing with any of those points other than on the administrative level.
Yes.
Might be reasonable. Have to do some checking.
If we get a leader we can be controlled and directed by the criminal elites. But he is far better than what we have now. However I don't think he understands the danger of fiat money in the hands of the federal reserve. Of course I don't think you understand it either. If he is not solid and principled the PTB will roll him.
I don't understand your rabid hatred of RP. Or why you are determined to keep the two movements apart when there are huge areas of agreement.
you need to pick someone who does not want the job but realizes it is his duty to do the job, when picked
Yes, and the person cannot be a personality that would become a demagogue.
We don't need a Charles Coughlin.....but we do need an Abraham Lincoln.
the election process brings people who WANT to be prez. there is a problem there, alternator motives and such. someone who does not want the job but would do it correctly as a servant of the people, is what we want. But hard to find. as the paradox prevents it.
You remember the paradox post?
no, direct me to it, I was referring to how we need someone that doesn't want to be prez but how do you find him? he won't step forward unless he wants
Can't find it.
It had to do with the paradox of leadership in OWS.
You can't be a leader unless people will follow you and people won't follow you unless you're a leader.
That is the Gordian knot of OWS.
and OWS needs a leader that does not seek to be a leader, a selfless person who thinks about others and fairness first and would be a self less leader. But once there is a leader the leader can be "taken out" by the opposition
Assassinations are rare and I think that if we tailor our message to appeal to the NRA, our leaders will be safe.
message needs to appeal to 99% of the people.
I was kidding with that one.
I think Feingold may meet your criteria.
sorry who is Feingold?
his voting record. <Russ Feingold on Principals & Values: Declines congressional pay raise. (May 2006)> I like someone who actually declined to take a congressional pay raise, shows me he's not in it just for the money.
http://www.issues2000.org/senate/Russell_Feingold.htm
I liked what I saw write him in for Prez pass it on
Russ Feingold endorses Occupy Wall Street: “This will make the Tea Party look like ... a tea party.” By Greg Sargent
“I’m really encouraged by what I’m seeing. People around the country are finally organizing to stand up to the huge influence of corporations on government and our lives. This kind of citizen reaction to corporate power and corporate greed is long overdue.”
That’s Russ Feingold, who spoke with me yesterday in order to voice his strong support for Occupy Wall Street, making him one of the most prominent liberal Democrats in the country to endorse the protests. Feingold’s strong backing will be seen as significant by the movment’s supporters, because thus far few elected Dems have publicly voiced support for it.
Feingold’s career has been all about fighting the influence of corporate money over politics — he championed campaign finance reform, opposed deregulation and voted against Obama’s Wall Street reform bill because it didn’t go far enough — so he has an interesting perspective on the budding movement.
Feingold rejected the argument — made even by some of Occupy Wall Street’s sympathizers — that it has failed to articulate a clear message or agenda, arguing that the coalescing of outrage itself is the story and the message here, even if it seems incohate at times.
“The guys who are protesting are not filing legal briefs,” he said. “They are expressing the populist, genuine view that people have been ripped off. It’s a fundamental identification of the fact that people are getting taken for a ride by powerful interests who are getting away with murder.”
“The worm is finally turning on the nonsense of blaming the wrong people for what happened in 2008,” said Feingold, whose new group, Progressives United, was formed to counter the Citizens United decision and corporate influence over politics. “The American people are saying, wait, we have the boot of corporations on our necks, and we’re sick of it. This is a significantly coherent message at the beginning of something like this.”
Feingold said he was moved to speak out because of condescending media coverage of the issue, adding that it’s crucial to understand that Occupy Wall Street is rooted in the emotional reality of people’s everyday experiences of the economy.
“This is a populist movement based on genuine suffering and fear,” he said. “Anyone who really lives out in working America knows that people are feeling very scared. This movement would probably not have this fuel if not for that reality.”
Asked whether the Obama administration and the Democratic Party’s insufficiently confrontational approach towards Wall Street is partly to blame for all the frustration, Feingold noted that there are still signficant differences between the two parties. But he offered Obama some advice.
“The White House should realize that this would be beneficial to the president and his reelection chances if he recognizes how correct the protesters are to be upset,” Feingold said. “It would be a mistake to try to coopt this. I’m hoping a mass movement will encourage the White House to listen to and respond to these concerns. It would be politically smart and the right thing to do.”
“This is like the Tea Party — only it’s real,” Feingold said. “By the time this is over, it will make the Tea Party look like ... a tea party.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russ_Feingold
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BX_bWBx2zo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFOW_BmWAsc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6Akl5qUMTo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcnb_4w2V0E
dude ty for helping a total stranger, me, I am watched the vids, I think I could get behind this guy I am independent but good ideas need to be supported. I do hope this is not a tea party for the democrats
No. As long as OWS avoids overreach.....it will gain momentum.
The three core issues:
First, get the money out:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-only-issue-the-only-issue-get-money-out-of-pol/
Second: The Stock Act http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h682/show
Third: Constitutional Amendments affirming Social Security and Medicare. This would bring older Americans into the movement and would divide them from the Republicans. (Republicans would, of course, come out against such amendments and that would alienate older voters.....who actually vote. I have said it before, but the true measure of any movement is whether it can convert your parents).
you don't need to divide them from the republicans or democrats for that matter, you just need to bring them in to the group with shared concerns, item 3 will work WELL, some are very "passionate" about that subject. Something about paying into it for a long time and planning on it for retirement. Who was it that looted the SS account?
issue 1 agree,.,.issue 2 agree.,.,.issue 3 one of the MAIN reasons I am here, to find out if the money I paid into the system was stolen from me or not. If someone stole it from me I need to go a looking for that "group" to get my money back, or at least some skin
I was going to move to Wisconsin while he was in office, but then the state went and scrambled its brain.
Russ Feingold on OWS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5tBk7ykr7w
Actually, as a conservative, I like feingold( remember Mc Cain-Feingold of yesteryear)
maybe you are talking of neocons( I hope)
But yes, screw RP
Exactly and Amen.
Puff I didn't know you were a praying man..
Well, my favorite position is missionary.
Why do I have to wait 2 minutes to be funny?
lol
Feingold Sex against Goldman Sachs
And this is exactly where it belongs - in the hands, voices, and minds of the people. For too long we have looked for the leader to solve our problems. No, it is time we take this into our own as individuals and unity to make change.
This is not a political movement as such and does not represent any political party or stance. It is more an educational movement to enlighten and encourage those who have not spoken up to the individual oppressions they feel. Use these protests to bring these to light and mass understanding. No one is denying you your right to speak and voice your issues. Within civility no one is barring or threatening to remove your presence from any GA or impose a time limit in which you can express your information. No one except those that we seek to stop their oppression.
Learn, contribute and then return to your individual political association and bring change from within.
We are all educators and students in this movement.
What have you accomplished?
3 months vs. 100's of years of oppression...take your time, it will come to you...The brisquit is really good hear only you'll never know it...
First Power, Then Change.
Me. I don't want an official spokesperson, or even an official policy statement.
Then you will be a voice in a chorus of noise.
Sometimes noise is good. It wakes people up, as in a house fire.
Home fires often cost lives, ruin property, and leave only destruction in their wake.
What do 9/11 wars do? RE: "Home fires often cost lives, ruin property, and leave only destruction in their wake."
Learn the politics of the possible and you will have an effective life.
Jon Corzine.
Clever.
No one. It is a leaderless movement. Ideas and action evolve through community consenous
You're being led ( ows has been planned for along time) but you don't realize it. Thats why you're called "useful idiots".
guess i'll unplug then. thanks for wake up call
We are the world.....we are the children.....
Get organized and get some leaders or go the way of Justin Beiber.
[Removed]
Stop Promoting and sneaking gay agenda into OWS. Feingold supports same sex marriage. If Gay, stay in your closet. Do not pollute OWS movement which is about fighting injustice. Being gay is not about equality it is about sexual deviance and promoting it. Do not make this an issue for us at this time.
We are fighting lies, wars, lackies, greed, hidden racism, and slavery.
Our Human rights fight is now about police brutality, freedom of assembly, unbiased coverage and journalism, prosecution of criminals and cronys and dismantling of the corrupt political, judicial, executive matrix.
blah blah blah gay sex blah blah blah protect the family blah blah blah.
Clean that santorum off your lips at tell my what percentage of marriages end in divorce?
If you want to improve that statistic then I would suggest that YOU not get married.
booooooyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh.
All Leader worship is just Penis worship.
Yes, and you're somebody who knows a great deal about worshiping dongers.
You could probably suck a golf ball through a garden hose....couldn't you peanut butter?
Who is peanut butter? You sound more like a Troll every day, Puff. That's the spirit !
You're something one spreads on his balls so that his dog can lick it off.....oh, that feels good peanut butter.....
can I have my Titleist back there Spanky?
That's great Puff ! You are really talking like an experienced Troll now ! You are almost ready to graduate from Troll school. Good Troll ! Russ Feingold would be so proud of you now!
It seems like I've hit a nerve, eh Spanky?
Can you suck while you type....oh, I bet you can, naughty minx you.
Dear occupy people.
Go Home!
You are practicing your free speech. I Get it.
You are upset with the way things are and YOU want to change things for the better for the good of our society and our country. I Get it.
Peacefully assemble, peacefully protest, at the end of the day, go home. When tomorrow comes assemble, peacefully protest and try to change things that YOU feel would change things for the better for the good of our society and our country. When tomorrow is over, go home, then come back the next morning. and repeat the process day after day if you like.
I am appalled at your method of protest. It is not a camp ground. You are taking over areas intended for public use that other people can not use these areas. Police resources are taken away that 911 calls are not able to be answered in a timely fashion. The area that is being used by YOU as a campground is being damaged and will take money to restore to proper conditions.
Would your method of protest be acceptable if the TEA PARTY used it? How about PRO-LIFE groups? GAY-RIGHTS? These groups also want to change things THEY feel are for the good of our society and our country. I do not agree with all of these groups and the viewpoints they represent, I do find most of their methods of protest and expression of free speech as peaceful and civil minded.
Go home. Just go home.
Jim Harper
Fleetwood, PA
Blah Blah Blah. There is always a protest going on in NYC.
The Occupiers just need a place to shower and shave......oh ya, and poop.
If you think it is so important to follow the rules, then you must believe that the Original Boston Tea Party was illegal and the eventual American Revolution was against the law and should have never occurred.
Think of all the property damaged in that one!
Go back home to your quiet superficial life.
Leaders are obsolete. Leaders are a carry over from primitive chimpanzee sociology. We don't need them anymore. Grow up and get over your hero worship complex, puff. You read too many Superman comic books.
I'm picturing an ugly girl with three boobies. Nasty.
Not three boobs. Three nipples. It's very common for women to have 2 nipples on one boob. An OWS leader is not going to live any longer than JFK, RFK, or MLK. Wall Street will rub him out in a heartbeat. Then the movement will become despondent and demoralized. You don't think very far ahead, do you?
That is why I suggest we launch an initiative to recruit NRA members to our cause. I'd rather have those guys inside the tent pissing out rather than on the outside pissing in.....to quote one of my favorite posters on this forum.
If we have all of the NRA members, then it will be the enemies of OWS who will know fear.
They will just poison our leader with Po-210, just like the KGB.
Then we'll have to recruit the nuclear scientists and KGB as well.
Puff ur a tool dude RonPaul is the truth
Too bad Russ half assed it with his legislation with that other criminal, McCain. Cut soft money, but double the hard money.
That reform was PR bullshit at its finest. Didnt do anything, they both got their accolades, and the public still got stuck with a bunch of shithead the next election.
Yes. Amazingly, I agree with something you said.
I think that 60 minutes has, in two episodes, done more to crystallize outrage directed towards congressional corruption than all media has done for the past 20 years.
The key was displaying the audacity of these characters.....they have pushed the standards of ethics so far towards criminality that they cannot even tell when they are breaking the rules.
The Louisiana Rep. Backus was shorting the market based on private meetings with Hank Paulson and then telling the public everything was all right. He made out like a bandit.
Do you know what would happen if I traded on nonpublic information?
What happened to Martha Stewart.....
Anyway, the only issue is getting big money out once and for all.
From that one change, all else flows.
We can have NO leader. NONE.
Then, when the energized Republicans, evangelicals, and corporate money ABSOLUTELY FUCKING TROUNCE you in 2012, you will have no movement.
If you have 100 people divided into 20 groups with each group of five constituting one vote, how many people does it take to get the majority 11 of 20 votes?
51? No.
What you do is place 3 operatives in each of 11 groups.
All you need is 33 people to control the agenda of 100.
Welcome to the world of Karl Rove.
Now that you know the game, you will understand how to use it to your advantage. Please read:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/puff-onthe-butterfly-effect-and-a-clear-method-for/
Because you don't vote in primaries.
Like it or not...
Direct Digital Democracy will be here sooner or later.
It's only a matter of time:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/approaching-a-metapolitical-discourse/
http://metapolitik.org/article/approaching-metapolitical-discourse
http://rebooting.personaldemocracy.com/
http://rebootingdemocracy.org/
http://rebooting.personaldemocracy.com/files/Rebooting_America.pdf
http://digital-democracy.org/
http://www.digitaldemocracy.org.uk/
http://www.rushkoff.com/open-source-democracy/
http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/10753/pg10753.html
Digital Democracy is a misnomer for noise.
There is nothing new under the Sun (Ecclesiastes).
What is Democratic about the digital age is the ability for all to express their views. But, the world still organizes itself on the basis of ideas and philosphies.
Unfortunately, there are people who are scared to death of you....mostly Republicans.....and your little movement has done more to increase their energy and cohesiveness.
And, they are organized and smart.
There are way more of us than there are of them.
The fear-mongering and smear tactics by those on the right who are scared to death of us - mostly Republicans - and our movement, has done nothing but increase our energy, cohesiveness and resolve.
And we are organized
...And smart:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/approaching-a-metapolitical-discourse/#comment-462535
If you have 100 people divided into 20 groups with each group of five constituting one vote, how many people does it take to get the majority 11 of 20 votes?
51? No.
What you do is place 3 operatives in each of 11 groups.
All you need is 33 people to control the agenda of 100.
Welcome to the world of Karl Rove. You won't stand a chance unless you are as clever.
It does not work that way.
We are talking about consensus building - not "mob rule" (aka: Ochlocracy).
If you had bothered to read the article, you would know that already.
http://metapolitik.org/article/approaching-metapolitical-discourse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ochlocracy
You are, in other words, for what every failed movement in history was for.....ill-defined change to be fostered by ineffective leadership.
No, you are - for lack of a better phrase - for what every Troll in the history of public forums was...
A complete idiot making ad-hominem attacks in a self-righteous attempt to make his/herself feel superior or less intellectually impotent.
I'm just having fun while trying to change the world. Who could have a better time?
You, on the other hand, are a little pissant who has a quite jaded view of the world.
I've seen your little blog and was rather disturbed by it's tone.
If anyone wants to waste their time, look here:
http://metapolitik.org/
I am really not an arrogant person, but I actually care that something comes out of all this. You wouldn't know the difference either way. Which makes you a:
Pawn of the Oppressor.
Trying to change the world ?
I quote:
"You are, in other words, for what every failed movement in history was for.....ill-defined change to be fostered by ineffective leadership."
...Doesn't sound like you're trying to change anything.
Sounds like you want "business as usual".
DOUCHE! I simply think it's important for this little movement not to get sidetracked by douche bags like you. This is from your "blog":
Who Benefits?
99%Certainly not us. Not you, nor I, nor anyone that we happen to know. But there are those that benefit. Even in these harsh economic times, there are those for whom food and shelter are not (and will never be) an issue. People for whom an economy in crisis is but more money in their coffers. But, it would be difficult if not impossible to determine who these people actually are. At least not with any certainty. Sure, there are the obvious examples. The Bankers... the CEOs. Those with high profiles. But they are just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. The ones that we see. The scummy film that rises to the top.
YOU ARE A CREEP. You belong in the KKK, not in OWS.
Just go away.
How dare you associate me with racists?!
This blog entry is railing against bankers and profiteers!
Sounds pretty in-line with the #OWS message, is you ask me.
You're just a troll.
If you're not down with the Occupy Wall St. Movement...
Just go away.
You don't want to be part of a movement to change the world, you want to be part of a mob.
99%Certainly not us. Not you, nor I, nor anyone that we happen to know. But there are those that benefit. Even in these harsh economic times, there are those for whom food and shelter are not (and will never be) an issue. People for whom an economy in crisis is but more money in their coffers. But, it would be difficult if not impossible to determine who these people actually are. At least not with any certainty. Sure, there are the obvious examples. The Bankers... the CEOs. Those with high profiles. But they are just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. The ones that we see. The scummy film that rises to the top.
Perhaps, I should have shortened my response to you....
YOU ARE A CREEP.
Why do you keep quoting that one paragraph out of context?
It's clearly a rail against bankers and Wall St.
So you support Wall St. bankers?
“Democracy destroys itself because it abuses its right to freedom and equality. Because it teaches its citizens to consider audacity as a right, lawlessness as a freedom, abrasive speech as equality, and anarchy as progress.”
-- Isocrates
“Democracy... while it lasts is more bloody than either [aristocracy or monarchy]. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide.”
-- John Adams
"The spirit of democracy is not a mechanical thing to be adjusted by abolition of forms. It requires change of heart."
~Mohandas Gandhi
"If liberty and equality, as is thought by some, are chiefly to be found in democracy, they will be best attained when all persons alike share in government to the utmost."
~Aristotle
“It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”
~ Winston Churchill
“Democracy is the only system that persists in asking the powers that be whether they are the powers that ought to be.”
~Sydney J. Harris
"An ideal form of government is democracy..."
~Voltaire
"The sides are being divided now. It’s very obvious. So if you’re on the other side of the fence, you’re suddenly anti-American. Its breeding fear of being on the wrong side. Democracy’s a very fragile thing. You have to take care of democracy. As soon as you stop being responsible to it and allow it to turn into scare tactics, it’s no longer democracy, is it? It’s something else. It may be an inch away from totalitarianism."
~Sam Shepard
"Although our interests as citizens vary, each one is an artery to the heart that pumps life through the body politic, and each is important to the health of democracy."
"Democracy works when people claim it as their own."
~Bill Moyers
"Democracy is worth dying for, because it's the most deeply honorable form of government ever devised by man."
~Ronald Reagan
I do not support mobs and never will.
I support those who want results, not angry little children.
The hyperbolic attacks by those on the right of direct democracy being akin to "mob rule" is wholly inaccurate in that it presupposes a level of disorganization that is not typically present in a "General Assembly".
The idea of "mob rule" is more accurately described as "Ochlocracy" than "Democracy".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ochlocracy
@ puff : IF You Are Unable To Think Outside The "DEMOBLICAN / REPUBLOCAT" Mind-Cage then ... you are just Part of the Problem but we already know this to be the case from many of your regressive and reactionary posts on this forum, don't we ?!
'Imho', The Citizens of The Usurped $tates of America / "United $tates of Amnesia (Gore Vidal) and The UK & Other Countries too, need a NON-PARTY System with a clear view to establishing a more True and Direct Participatory Democracy which Truly Serves The 99% rather than the present 'Only For The 1%', demoCRAZY deMOCKERYcy presently prevailing in most of the world. Please see: http://ni4d.us/ .
dum spiro, spero ...
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Mediocribus esse certo
Meth is like sticking a fork in your brain and just scrambling, isn't it?
The world is what it is because idealists and dreamers usually don't know, or want to know, how to get things done.
Thanx for your near instant ; rather revealing ; thoughtful and reasoned response ! Now Try The Link ;-)
You can type fast when you're not hopping on Meth.
I defer to your obvious knowledge in these matters. Suffice it to say ; Keep It Organic !!
We have to think much bigger, and for goodness sake - outside the box. Politicians can't help. So help yourself!
When you get tired of screwing around - JOIN THE REVOLUTION Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( www.revolution2.osixs.org )
Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.
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Feingold is a scumbag, an ardent supporter of IsraHell - zionist feces in other words....he want's American Blood (Gentile Blood) fighting Israeli Wars.....We need to move away from zionist leaders otherwise the OWS movement is no different than our current government in Washington - just puppets for Israel.....
You've been counting the black helicopters again, haven't you Ernest T. Bass?
You probably think the muppets are closet communists too, you do don't you.
no i just think a zionist like that is bad for this movement....lots of Israeli firsters here
Right now, the enemy of my enemy is my friend and there is no larger threat to the world....the Straight of Hormuz in particular....than a nuclear Iran.
That simple change in the makeup of this planet will almost guarantee a nuclear conflict within the next 30 years.
Hundreds of thousands....millions....could die.
So, carte blanche support for Isreal should not be our long term diplomatic strategy.
However, coordination with Isreal with regards to destroying Iran's nuclear ambition could currently be our most important diplomatic and military priority.
So, cut the divisive crap. You're just trying to discredit the forum and it's simply dishonorable.
What about destroying Israel's nukes? They should not be the only country in that region with nukes....after all, how can we really trust Israel? They attacked the USS LIberty (a US ship)...what kind of true ally are they? We need to destroy both Israel and Iran nukes otherwise it's not fair
Do you think that the Israelis will give other governments their nuclear secrets or will provide stateless terrorists with fissile materials?
You are a plant on this forum or a complete, blithering, idiot.
In either event, you are not worth another two minutes.
Why should Israel be the only country in the Middle East with nukes? What makes them exceptional? They have violated zillions of human rights....are you another zionazi?
Are you an Ayatollist? Are you a fool? Would you want Hugo Chavez with a nuke? You probably would.
Why would you allow yourself to get paid for doing something like this....did you laid off as a telemarketer or something?
no no, stop using circular logic and answer the question....why should Israel have a nuke? Israel bombed a USA ship...how can we trust them? I trust them as much as I trust Iran....so if Iran gives up nukes so should Israel....Israel isn't even a democracy....Netanyahu is a bloodthirsty zionazi. What makes Israel special?
What's makes you so anti-Israel? Where did the majority of the 9-11 hijackers come from? Why aren't you Anti-Saudi?
Come on Beardsley McTurbinhead, let's see what's really behind your curtain.
Did a little Jewish girl break your heart? Did you lose a promotion to someone named Norman?
Or, maybe, you're just a stupid redneck who still thinks that Jews have to have long hair to hide their horns.....
Get out of your single-wide trailer, mow your yard, you'll find two cars on blocks and that shallow grave where you buried your wife. But, whatever you do, get....no rent....a fucking life.
you never justified Israel having nukes over every other Middle Eastern country....you honestly think this is fair? Israel is a country known for lying, stealing, killing, murdering, destroying - no different than Nazi Germany in what they do to the Palestinians....why should they have nukes? It's people like you that make me believe that zionazis are little demons....Look at the US, just like the wizard of Oz, there's a weak, ugly little zionist behind the curtain, calling all the shots and pulling all the levers...it only takes some strong americans to send this feeble zionist behind the curtain to hell where he belongs....
So, you will not vote for any candidates who support Israel?
I guess that wipes out just about every candidate for Congress and the Presidency in the United States. Perhaps you can start your own third party......
You can be called the Beardsley McTurbinheads.
Too easy.
Russ Feingold is our man and if you support OWS, please don't.
he's just another dirtbag zionist.....DUMP ISRAEL - they are a big turd....once the USA realizes that Israel is no democracy due to "jewish only" roads and "jewish only" units...and also, these are killers and land grabbers, support will decrease.....people need to get the word out on the evils of these people - blood thirsty money hungry zionist scumbags
You do realize that your level of vitriol completely discredits everything that you say? You sound like someone who really needs to get laid.
You are an Israeli firster with a clear cut agenda....someone should throw you in gaza, with the rest of the caged in, fenced in palestinians....the land you scumbags stole....then you will see how the other side lives....keep on keepin on - lying, cheating, murdering, killing, destroying and nation wrecking my zionist buddy...since my tax dollars go to the welfare state I will keep spreading the good word = the truth about zionist Israel and our zionist run US government
Sieg Heil! When you finally off yourself, I should tell you that you're probably not going to have 40 virgins waiting for you. No, the place you're going to go to is very warm. Say hey to Hitler for me. Tell him the 21st century isn't the same without him.
You'd better work on that secret handshake for the Beardsley McTurbinheads. That way, you won't cornhole the wrong Nazi's.....
go whine about the holofraud....it's old hat
Isreal is surrounded by neighbors the want the demise of Isreal,......at any cost. Comparing Isreal to nazi Germany is nonsensical. go to http://isreal21c.org/
It was never there land to take in the first place....they justify it by many crazy assertions....it's white khazars governing in the middle of arab lands...something smells fishy....If they are allowed to have nukes then so should other arab countries...let's face it...Israel does not have the best track record when it comes to trust, ethics, honesty and truth - they've bombed the USS Liberty in the past....they are just as much a threat to arab countries as arab countries would be a threat to them....Israeli's shouldn't receive any preferential treatment of any kind.
The Jews ( Hebrews) have been in Isreal for over 3300 years.
Thanks for helping to confirm my suspicions of this ridiculous movement.
If it is ridiculous, then why are you spending your Saturday upon this forum?
Now, that would be redonculous.
Same reason ive been on here any other time, to find out just how ridiculous it is and to try and identify with the real people with real issues. If that is genuine concern you have there, I can assure you I have done many other things this saturday, and my time here cannot be more then thirty minutes the whole day. Thanks!
My daughter made me take her to the Twilight movie today, so I am now one of those people with real issues.....I've got the worst fucking headache after watching some of the worst teen drivel ever put on screen.
Did you see how bad they made the main character girl look....her career ain't gonna last too long if her fans remember this movie.
Anyway, what were you saying?
I cannot comment on this as I have seen none of the movies or read any of the books, but I would bet its some of that same bs that has these kids marching down streets today, when their biggest problem is what their friend at school said about them or loosing someones contact information in their new Iphone.
By twisting my words "real issues" from something you knew I meant into a reason to be a smartass you have proven yourself to be no better then these idiotic teens you describe in this movie. Seems like you came here just for an argument, I feel sorry for your daughter and its no surprise to me she is worried about stupid things like that movie after being raised by you.
Just trying to keep it interesting. Have you read my forum posts....some try to be serious. But, you have to understand, there are a large number of stalkers on this site and when I post something serious, they pile on to denounce it. So, I have to have chaff to post alongside them that is inflammatory. They get drawn to those topics and they leave the serious one alone. That is why you will see about five of my topics each time I post on one of the serious ones. Maybe I shouldn't have told you that.
Maybe you should or shouldnt have, either way you have the benefit of doubt just like anyone. All that you said goes the same for most of the people responding to what i say, although i havnt taken such measures as you. That is fair enough.
Ron Paul can be the OWS MLK
There is room for RonPaul's love of participatory democracy....not much else.