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Forum Post: Everyone in this movement should read this

Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 28, 2011, 8:59 p.m. EST by owschico (295)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

http://www.schiffradio.com/b/In-Defense-of-the-1/211315239197335133.html ---------------------------------------------------Sorry I had to cut parts out because of forum rules :( This is written by Peter Schiff after going down to OWS and talking to protesters.

Indeed, there were plenty of heated discussions. I did little more than ask how much of my earnings I should be allowed to keep. In return, I was called an idiot, a fool, heartless, and selfish. But when we started talking about the issues, it seemed like the protesters fell into two categories: those who generally understood and agreed that Washington caused this mess, and those who could only recite Marxist talking points. It was the latter who usually resorted to calling names once I pointed out the hypocrisy of their positions. They might shout, "the banks have taken over the regulatory agencies, so we need more regulations!" Obviously, this is paradoxical. If they're blaming government for causing this problem, why would they suggest more government as the solution?

Please read the whole article since i can not post it here

60 Comments

60 Comments


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[-] 2 points by sienaa (30) 13 years ago

if Washington caused this mess - then the solution is to reform Washington. If that is impossible - then solution is to protest.

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

If washington caused the mess in conjunction with the federal reserve you should protest the federal reserve and washington. like Mr. Schiff stated protesting wallstreet is on par with blaming the dog for getting into the trash.

[-] 1 points by sienaa (30) 13 years ago

well - who controls Washington? If dog gets into trash - don't you restrict the dog?

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

The Federal Reserve controls washington and has since 1913. "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild -----no you don't put the trash out for the dog to get.

[-] 1 points by thebeastchasingitstail (1912) 13 years ago

I'd argue that Goldman Sachs owns Washington. Therefore, we must contact the dog's owner about the damage the dog is doing. Ultimately both the dog AND the owner must be reined in.

[-] 1 points by sienaa (30) 13 years ago

nonsense. All Federal reserve does - is cash government checks. Washington is controlled by the interest groups that mostly represent the wealthy. Financial sector is one of the best represented groups.

It is the same - move trash from the dog, or dog from the trash. The point is that you do not let dog to get to the trash.

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

Incorrect, the federal reserve creates fiat money and loans it to the treasury at interest. "We have, in this country, one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board. This evil institution has impoverished the people of the United States and has practically bankrupted our government. It has done this through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it". — Congressman Louis T. McFadden in 1932 (Rep. Pa)

[-] 1 points by sienaa (30) 13 years ago

Federal reserve creates money at Treasury's request. Treasury gives securities in exchange, but Fed reimburses the interest. You are barking at the wrong tree.

[-] 1 points by poltergist22 (159) 13 years ago

Alright buddie I think in todays world of wars,deficits,unemployment, and general doom and gloom shouldn't we unite and make these changes from a stand point of strength? Wouldn't the movement go farther,accomplishment more and provide for all if ....all were willing to compromise and sacrifice? Its just an idea but check out www.nationalday911.org Get the managers of this movement to consider it

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

divide and conquer is the objective i mean the 99 percent talking point is division in itself

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

the managers want to keep this movement right where it is

[-] 1 points by poltergist22 (159) 13 years ago

I think your right owschico....but ya can't blame someone for adding a idea can ya?

[-] 1 points by democritis (13) 13 years ago

Solution: Lets forget about left/right politics...they are diversions! Instead, lets work together to

1/ Impeach Obama for bailing out the banks and thus causing/contributing to the world economic crisis;

2/ Get rid of Ben Benanke ( head of the Fed and Obama's chief financial adviser!)

3/According to Clause 30 of the “Federal” Reserve Act, buy, or if need be, seize the outstanding shares of stock, from the Fed,cshut down this unconstitutional privately owned system, and sell off their assets to reimburse the people for this outright theft of their wealth.

4/ get rid of the Patriot Act.

5/ Establish a free enterprise system in place of corporate fascism

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

instead of 3 put allow for compeating currencies. But FK yea good work!!!

[-] 1 points by democritis (13) 13 years ago

That would probably work...we don't want to go the way of the euro. The EU is an interesting example of in what direction not to take America. The EU is run by UNELECTED officials who want to impose a single currency on the world. And wouldn't you know it, the democrats and the Republicans, for the most, are right behind them! Long live democracy!

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

democracy shouldn't be our goal as much as saving the republic.

[-] 1 points by BonaFidePublius (93) 13 years ago

Its because people aren't informed and are not neccisarily smart. Some people naturally follow the herd, or one or a few they highly regard, and follow them. Marxism, at its fullest form, still may or may not work. On the Contrary, Democracy is inevitable led to tyranny. Having said this, a true Democracy that values the people above corporations is necessary for a Democracy to hold sustainability, and is a much safer solution for sustained personal liberty. So, what needs to be on the agenda, whether through a completely new reinstatement and revision of the constitution, or through mass sweeping reforms, is limiting corruption and benefits that can be received through holding power, and a completely new look on the banking system.

So to put it simply, assess Jefferson's original draft, and go from there. Social policies such as health care and corporation campaign funding can be looked at, and assessed to produce a system that values individuals personal needs, having equal opportunities to succeed, and doesnt limit the economic prosperity they can then obtain.

[-] 1 points by poltergist22 (159) 13 years ago

They say the campaign managers are convinced the average voters attention span is 4 months.....meaning they vote over what has happened in 4 months time preceding the election or listen to the latest polls telling them who is the leader......they have it down to a science

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

how about we make government responsible for maintaining my right to life liberty and pursute of happiness? And throw in campaign finance reform

[-] 1 points by BonaFidePublius (93) 13 years ago

exactly. it should be understood that the core concept and instigators of this movement are not actually against the 1 percent, but the system that produces them. It isn't that they cannot stand the idea that others are rich, but rather that economic prosperity is extremely limited due to the stranglehold banks and other large corporations play on the market. If there hold on the market can be eliminated, then everyone will be more prosperous and jobs will be easily accessible.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 13 years ago

the solution to the problem is for government to regulate the corporations. so blaming government is a right wing con scam mind fuck to take the light off of the solution and the real problem. your false dualism is typical, obviously you live in a delusional paranoid fantasy filled with communists projected out of your own shadow- and are insane and detached from reality.

[-] 1 points by boingo333 (1) 13 years ago

It's the god-damned inequality, STUPID!! I hear it again and again in the media that there is no real issue that these OWS people are behind. Instead, you hear one protester say this, another that but, it’s really a thousand different ways of saying the same thing – inequality. Any billionaire has one vote to cast on Election Day but, his influence in Washington is a hundred thousand time what mine is. It's the god-damned inequality, STUPID!! Let’s all get behind that notion and the rest of it will take care of itself.

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

not true the notion of inequality and the blind following of "progress" is extremely dangerous. It is responsible for 10 of millions of deaths in the last century... in china alone.

[-] 1 points by sienaa (30) 13 years ago

notion of inequality - or the reality of inequality?

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

the notion of inequality has been used as a trojan horse for awful crimes and tyranny over and over again through out the 20th century

[-] 1 points by sienaa (30) 13 years ago

I think it is reality of inequality that triggered those things, not notion

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

its weak minded people who are unhappy with their living conditions, they blindly follow ideas that explain why they are not prosperous and never address the fact that they are personally responsible.

[-] 1 points by sienaa (30) 13 years ago

nonsense. If there are not enough jobs - you can make people as "strong minded" as you want - they will not find a job.

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

Henry David Thoreau

[-] 1 points by thebeastchasingitstail (1912) 13 years ago

I have a better idea - everyone in OWS should watch the video and judge for themselves:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/peter-schiff-speaks-for-1-percent-at-occupy-wall-s/

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

Im still waiting on someone to tell me why Wallstreet when they are just the drunk guy at the bar. Blame the bar tender and the bar owner!!!!

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

"These 12 corporations together cover the whole country and monopolize and use for private gain every dollar of the public currency..." — Mr. Crozier of Cincinnati, before Senate Banking and Currency Committee - 1913

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

"I have never seen more Senators express discontent with their jobs....I think the major cause is that, deep down in our hearts, we have been accomplices in doing something terrible and unforgivable to our wonderful country. Deep down in our heart, we know that we have given our children a legacy of bankruptcy. We have defrauded our country to get ourselves elected." — John Danforth (R-Mo)

[-] 1 points by sienaa (30) 13 years ago

oh yeah - post more of meaningless citations

[-] 1 points by BonaFidePublius (93) 13 years ago

You are a fool not to read the literature from great intellects from the past. Maybe start with a few quotes from Jefferson, Plato, Jackson, Lincoln, or Einstein and you'll quickly learn that they all understood how a successful democracy should work. Not knowing history, is like trying to learn how to ride a bike with no handlebars.

[-] 1 points by sienaa (30) 13 years ago

yes, that is all good - but the problem is that you are posting quotes about financial institution that now works differently than it was hundreds of years ago. We are no longer on gold standard, you know. Sovereignty governments are monopoly issuers of currency.

[-] 1 points by BonaFidePublius (93) 13 years ago

What are the benefits of have money backed by nothing? and the US doesnt own the federal reserve you know... Its a centralized bank, exactly the one the US fought against and was the main cause of the Revolutionary war (check B. Franklin). The fed. reserve gains nothing from benefiting humanity, and chooses not too.. and finally people are starting to see it.

[-] 1 points by sienaa (30) 13 years ago

the benefits of money backed by taxes (not nothing) is that government can spend them on things that are needed without having to borrow. The borrowing that government that does is not necessary - but in case of US - not really critical issue (because US borrows in its own money - which it can issue at will). If money were backed by gold - government could not pay for social security, medicare, etc. Now it can. Except that it pretends that it cannot - at least when the spending is needed by the poor. All pretensions are dropped when spending is needed to bail out the rich. So that is the problem. The problem is control of government. Not the Fed or money backed by taxes.

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

"From now on, depressions will be scientifically created." — Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh Sr. , 1913

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

"This [Federal Reserve Act] establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President [Wilson} signs this bill, the invisible government of the monetary power will be legalized....the worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency bill." — Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr. , 1913

[-] 1 points by sienaa (30) 13 years ago

you really know little about central banks, do you? Do you know why Europe is going bankrupt, while USA is not?

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

the us is bankrupt btw

[-] 1 points by sienaa (30) 13 years ago

US can always pay its debts - so it is not bankrupt.

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

14 trillion?

[-] 1 points by sienaa (30) 13 years ago

sure. Those are nothing more than Treasury bonds. Once they mature - Fed gives cash. So what? Then whoever wants - buys next batch of Treasury bonds. If you want to get rid of Treasury securities - go ahead. The rich would be unhappy though - because Treasury securities gives them risk free income.

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

so the fed can just throw around our GDP for a whole year and you don't think anything bad will happen?

[-] 1 points by sienaa (30) 13 years ago

it does that already. Nothing bad happens. Those 14 trillion are people's savings. They are stored in banks, and some are used to own Treasury bonds.

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

they are going through the same debt crisis we delayed in 2008. But we will face the same mess that they are, and many think europe will cause an avalanche that will take us down with it. One of the reasons i suspect the fed will bail them out as well

[-] 1 points by sienaa (30) 13 years ago

well this shows me that you have no idea what you are talking about.

US cannot go bankrupt because its debts are in US dollars and because US controls the issuance of dollars.

Euro zone countries cannot pay their debts, because European Central Bank is not controlled by them.

So your wish to get rid of Fed would actually make it possible for US to go bankrupt.

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

first of all it does not take an expert to understand why these debt crisis happen, second you sound like an drunk begging to keep your whiskey. The system of credit we live under is the cancer but people are not educated enough to see past the symptoms.

[-] 1 points by sienaa (30) 13 years ago

the problem right now is that government deficit is too small - so economy lacks money and people are unemployed, and resources unused.

[-] 1 points by sienaa (30) 13 years ago

There are different kinds of debt. Private debt is the debt that you know best: home debt, car debt, student debt. You borrow money from the bank - bank creates money - and gives you. Then you are debtor, and have to return with interest. Government has budget and spends money on things we want it to spend money on: defense, social security, medicare. The money that government spends is paid to people employed by government, and for resources that government buys. In order so that government money be accepted - government creates tax in that same money. This creates demand for money. So the difference between spending and taxes is called deficit. If the money was not owed by government (like in Europe) then the difference would have to be borrowed. However, in countries like US - where government can always get its checks cashed by the Fed - the "borrowing" takes more of the symbolic nature. Remember that the Fed (which you are bashing) cashes government checks - and even reimburses interest. So US cannot go bankrupt. And the government deficit becomes people's savings.

[-] 0 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

Still waiting for Anyone to counter this article.... ANYONE?!?

[-] 1 points by sienaa (30) 13 years ago

there is nothing to counter: the guy tries to appear virtuous, and would like everybody to blame Washington - knowing that it is the same like blaming the sky. The system is rigged. Wealthy have disproportional control over government - that is why government always backs the wealthy.

[-] -1 points by roloff (244) 13 years ago

You are the devil

[-] -1 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

I know the truth is quite evil, but don't kill the messenger

[-] -1 points by owschico (295) 13 years ago

Please prove Peter Schiff wrong! I know we have some socialists out there!?!??