Forum Post: Everyone here who agrees that corporations are not persons...
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 14, 2011, 2:07 p.m. EST by RationalReaper
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leave a comment here...let's show the Supreme Court Whigs what We the People think about their corrupt twisted judgement. They need to be impeached!
End corporate personhood! Agreed! This will call for an Amendment to the Constitution:
"A corporate entity, in and of itself, is not a person, therefore, is not entitled to the rights and protections afforded to a person as set forth in the Constitution of the United States of America."
You know, I kind of wish for a world where we can insert into our legal code something like, "A person is, you know, a person. A human being. Why are we even having this conversation?" and have that hold up in a court of law. That, to me, is sanity.
Agreed. But the Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that a corporation is a person. I happen to think that, to be a person requires being a human-being. At present, a corporation can hide behind limited liability laws while having the same rights as a person. A corporation can escape accountability - "we are a corporation and cannot be held responsible as a person" - while at the same time having the rights of a person - "we can give an much money to a political candidate as we want. it's our 1st Amendment right. money is speech. blah, blah blah." Corporation is not person-hood.
Actually the Supreme Court did not always rule that way - it was only in the last few years that decisions have given rise to this as legal fact. That must change but it won't with the current makeup of the Supreme Court as it stands.
Also read about Teddy Roosevelt, an incredible Republican President who hated big businesses and monopolies, for a good read on what greatness is all about. (Hey he also created the National Parks System! A Republican!)
The Supreme Court first ruled that a corporate entity, in and of itself, is a person in the 1880's. It was wrong then, and it's wrong now.
While that is true it has been expanded greatly since then and for reasons of expediency for large corporations. What we need is a new definition that still allows for some of the good while dumping the overprotection these companies now have...
This should be our top priority since it leads to all the other changes we need. The change is long overdue; a constitutional amendment clarifying the meaning of "person" will restore the democratic process by shifting power back to human beings, making real meaningful democratic change possible.
Great...we have a main bone of contention...let's use it
I agree. It may be a long and difficult process, but well worth it.
I don't think it is realistic to get 2/3 of congress to support an amendment...even though it has never happened before, I think it might be easier to gain the support of 2/3 of the state legislatures. Obviously this would still be a huge uphill battle, but at least it's a starting point.
I think you are right about that. It may be valuable to try Congress first though. I would think that public support for such an amendment would be huge and I would like our representatives take a stand and show where their loyalties lie.
Agreed. We need a constitutional amendment that clarifies the rights (and non-rights) of corporations in this country.
"A government of the people, by the people, for the people"... or something like that.
yes..exactly...something like that
Very old supreme court decision btw. Between 1850 and 1900, Corporations had control of country. That is why Teddy Roosevelt finally tried to do something. Their power, influence, control and dominance has been so pervasive that many Presidents commented upon it including but not limited to Lincoln, both Roosevelts and Eisenhower. The whole power structure in the country is literally under their influence. That is why voting makes little difference. It is like playing baseball with a team that uses corked bats, or poker with Cheats. The playing field is not level. The corruption and dysfunction is massive.
Are there any Constitutional Lawyers here who can tell us if that ruling can be used to overturn the recent corrupt ruling by SC on Citizens United for Corporate Personhood?
Could we not use that ruling to overturn citizens united judgement?
No idea. Contact ACLU or legal experts on this kind of thing. Hard to overturn Supreme Court Decision.
Corporations are persons? I understand if they said the people who work there are persons but corporations as a whole is not a person, I wonder what idiots are sitting on that court? oh wait; people who have invested interest in corporations sit on that bench.
I agree with this - this should be the number one priority if we want to bring integrity back to our political system.
Okay, if corporations are to loose their illegally gained individual civil rights, we need an Article V convention because corporate sponsorship of government has been a problem for a century. Corporations are embedded into the government unconstitutionally in an economical fashion. Here are absolutely legal and logical steps to getting corporations under control.
1) Movement consolidates demand for Article V.
2)Citizens supporters in states create ballot intiatives or demonstate in demand at state offices and capitals to get legislators to apply to congress for an Article V.
3) Congress begins to convene delegates. Guarding the citizens voice, and ability to share then form quality opinion, with some uniformity to be tested, only the First Amendment is accepted for revision by the public because the movement has warned them away from all but the 1st amendment and elections.
4)While this is happening an interim proposal for amendment is made regarding election systems to assure that the vote will be properly taken and counted.
5) Citizens decry any accelerated amendments which may be in corporate interests, nwo interests, etc. BEFORE the First Amendment is revised giving national mass media to activist interests that can show their proposals for information meet the criteria for public support on national level. Paint them as corporate attempts to do again what they already did with 50 years of extremely manipulative, deceptive and exploitive media dividing and disabling Americans from unifying in support of the constitution.
6) Ratification elections in states take place and AFTER Article V is used to make certain that speech needed for survival is shared and understood, http://algoxy.com/poly/meaning_of_free_speech.html revision of the 1st amendment, then national media is used perhaps 4 nights a week for 1 to 2 hours of primetime tv to expose the entire hijacking of constitutional government. This educates the citizens to the point where their appreciation of what has happened compels them to unify properly and be prepared for survival through a wider, set of amendments dealing with economy, environment, immigration etc.
7)Following the education of America, about a year maybe, delegates are reconvened to review a newly created structure of amendments that undo all the unconstitutional aspects inserted over the last century or so. The informed public will have vetted the proper insertion of amendment to reduce the amount of amendment putting fears of rampant amendment to rest. Voters will ratify and the nations focuses on recovery.
Can we start a real petition that asks for the repeal of their decision?
I'd sign that.
The OWS movement should identify the SCOTUS as the number one target dues to the obvious politicalization of the SCOTHUS and the money that controls the SCOTUS which is evident by the "Citizens United" "corporations are people" ruling. Ownership of the three branches of federal government by 1% of the population should be the first and foremost message of OWS. All other issues are noise but most other issues are influenced by the ownership of our government by that 1%.
The OWS movement should identify the SCOTUS as the number one target dues to the obvious politicalization of the SCOTHUS and the money that controls the SCOTUS which is evident by the "Citizens United" "corporations are people" ruling. Ownership of the three branches of federal government by 1% of the population should be the first and foremost message of OWS. All other issues are noise but most other issues are influenced by the ownership of our government by that 1%.
bump up
well...it's friday night...won't be too many reading so I'll bump this back up on monday if I can find it...too bad we didn't have a way nto call up our posts when we need them
time to go to the top
I'm alright with corporations being persons, but if they are legally defined as persons under the 14th amendment then why not the 13th as well. If corporations are people, then to own them is slavery, which is illegal. Therefore, corporations cannot be bought, sold, or owned. The employees are the corporation. If we liberate these corporate persons in accordance with the 13th amendment, carefully of course to avoid economic catastrophe, then we resolve the primary conflict present in our current conception of what capitalism is.
Only people can vote....people cannot hide under limited liability like corporations can....so why can't people have the same protections as corporations? Per our own Constitution only people have a constitutional right to instruct our elected officials on how we want them to best represent us........something has gone very wrong when our representatives give corporations precedence over the constituents.
I'm down for it.
I want to see at least 1000 in agreement on this
get back up there
Demand term limits for SC justices...and impeach immediately the ones we can prove are corrupt
Corporations are created by state legislatures and the U. S. Congress. Persons are not. We must amend the U. S. Constitution to restore the power of state legislatures and the U. S. Congress to define the terms and responsibilities of incorporation.
Corporations are people the day Texas executes one.
C'mon people now...smile on your brothers...everybody get together and try to love one another....Right Now!
Wow, profound. Did you think of that yourself? I would write a song with those words. It could be BIG!!
ah yes...it was a big song back in the day
corporations are deemed to be legal people so that they can enter into contracts, have regulations enforced against them, be subject to the law, etc. what is the point of changing this definition? why are corporations evil? i happen to run a fairly large one. it seems to me that you people have no idea how corporations or our system works. their are real and needed reforms that can be demanded, things like a fair tax system where the rich do not pay a lower overall % than the middle class, or real environmnetal and energy policy, or real political reform where the 2 parties in power don't set all the rules to keep them in power and where special interest groups (mostly industry associations and unions) have all the power. let's make those demands, and get off of this stupid "corporations are evil and must be stopped" argument.
A corporation cannot go to the polls physically...therefore they should have no power to manipulate our politics.
We know what the fuck is up Tone
eye
a corporation pays income tax but has no vote. To make it fair, they should not pay tax at all as they have no representation. I guess that's a good argument for corporate lobbyists.
not to the extent that our electeds jump through fires to burn their constituency for the almighty campaign contributions...
Obviously there is interest in this thread by serious thinkers...so when it begins to lag I will come and give it a bump back up for the folks who come along later to see.
i was expecting a link to participate in a petition.
These forums are wonderful. The difficulty is that people who agree with these comments are reading the blog and those who don't are going to other sources that reinforce their opinions. That is the wonderful thing about Occupy Wall Street. It is bringing these concerns out in the public. Letting government and companies know they cannot keep taking away our voice.
It is important that we educate ourselves and then share that knowledge so others can make informed decisions. Corporations are not people. We are the people. These corporations only have the power we give them through buying their products and using their services. Shop consciously. Their are lots of options out there. Lets make our voices hear.
http://www.votewithitthemovement.com/
Every dollar you spend says what is important to you. Let governments and companies know what you believe in. Vote with your money. Vote for what you believe in. Help spread the word.
Of course corporations aren't people. I love how those on the right bitch about the poor not paying taxes and yet they have no problem with huge corporations not paying taxes even though they say they are people. The right-winger are by far the most hypocritical people in this county.
I can tell you who the major $$$ contributors to State and Federal politics are in the U.S. Do you want to know how? It's easy. Just log-in to the website www.followthemoney.org. Click on any level of Government you wish to track in the chart. For example, here are the major $$$ contributors to the New York state political process:
TABLE 3: Top 20 Contributors (Contributor Total % of Total Sector)
PALADINO, CARL P $7,818,524 3.97% Candidate Contributions
COFFEY, JOHN P $5,155,223 2.62% Candidate Contributions
DEMOCRATIC SENATE CAMPAIGN CMTE OF NEW YORK $5,109,841 2.59% Party
WILSON, HARRY J $3,958,200 2.01% Candidate Contributions
SENATE REPUBLICAN CAMPAIGN CMTE OF NEW YORK $2,649,450 1.34% Party
FRIENDS OF KATHLEEN RICE $2,641,527 1.34% Candidate Contributions
NEW YORK STATE UNITED TEACHERS $1,888,259 0.96% Labor
ANDREW CUOMO 2010 INC $1,707,280 0.87% Candidate Contributions
NEW YORK STATE TRIAL LAWYERS $1,479,964 0.75% Lawyers & Lobbyists
1199 SEIU UNITED HEALTHCARE WORKERS EAST $1,244,450 0.63% Labor
FRIENDS OF SCHNEIDERMAN $959,313 0.49% Candidate Contributions
NEW YORK STATE CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS $955,373 0.48% Labor
HEALTH CARE ASSOCIATION OF NEW YORK STATE $947,115 0.48% Health
CUOMO DUFFY 2010 $897,000 0.46% Candidate Contributions
DEMOCRATIC ASSEMBLY CAMPAIGN CMTE OF NEW YORK $890,243 0.45% Party
NEW YORKERS FOR KLEIN $862,618 0.44% Candidate Contributions
GREATER NEW YORK HOSPITAL ASSOCIATION $783,670 0.40% Health
RENT STABILIZATION ASSOCIATION $749,950 0.38% Finance, Insurance & Real Estate
REAL ESTATE BOARD OF NEW YORK $749,124 0.38% Finance, Insurance & Real Estate
CABLEVISION SYSTEMS CORP $730,257 0.37% Communications & Electronics
TABLE 4: Top 15 Industries (Top Industries Total)
Candidate Self-finance $22,919,406
Candidate Committees $15,037,393
Party Committees $13,676,403
Real Estate $13,524,261
Lawyers & Lobbyists $10,909,633
Public Sector Unions $9,568,836
Securities & Investment $8,061,753
General Trade Unions $7,811,443
Insurance $3,339,834
Health Professionals $3,162,600
Hospitals & Nursing Homes $2,869,361
Beer, Wine & Liquor $2,556,129
General Contractors $2,211,550
Telecom Services & Equipment $1,923,930
TV & Movie Production/Distribution $1,337,143
Money itself is not evil....but as a political tool...it is and should be removed from our political process
Agreed.
I own stock in several corporations. I am a person.
Therefore, corporations are people. Is that what you are saying? he he
Yes. I am part owner of several corporations and the last time I checked I am a person.
Corporations are simply a group of like minded people working together for a common cause.
Well, I respect you as an individual; and as an investor in several different Corporations. The problem is the greedy little Executives who run these Corporations. Here is a quick example of the money flying around in American politics (see below):
I can tell you who the major $$$ contributors to State and Federal politics are in the U.S. Do you want to know how? It's easy. Just log-in to the website www.followthemoney.org. Click on any level of Government you wish to track in the chart. For example, here are the major $$$ contributors to the New York state political process:
TABLE 3: Top 20 Contributors (Contributor Total % of Total Sector)
PALADINO, CARL P $7,818,524 3.97% Candidate Contributions
COFFEY, JOHN P $5,155,223 2.62% Candidate Contributions
DEMOCRATIC SENATE CAMPAIGN CMTE OF NEW YORK $5,109,841 2.59% Party
WILSON, HARRY J $3,958,200 2.01% Candidate Contributions
SENATE REPUBLICAN CAMPAIGN CMTE OF NEW YORK $2,649,450 1.34% Party
FRIENDS OF KATHLEEN RICE $2,641,527 1.34% Candidate Contributions
NEW YORK STATE UNITED TEACHERS $1,888,259 0.96% Labor
ANDREW CUOMO 2010 INC $1,707,280 0.87% Candidate Contributions
NEW YORK STATE TRIAL LAWYERS $1,479,964 0.75% Lawyers & Lobbyists
1199 SEIU UNITED HEALTHCARE WORKERS EAST $1,244,450 0.63% Labor
FRIENDS OF SCHNEIDERMAN $959,313 0.49% Candidate Contributions
NEW YORK STATE CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS $955,373 0.48% Labor
HEALTH CARE ASSOCIATION OF NEW YORK STATE $947,115 0.48% Health
CUOMO DUFFY 2010 $897,000 0.46% Candidate Contributions
DEMOCRATIC ASSEMBLY CAMPAIGN CMTE OF NEW YORK $890,243 0.45% Party
NEW YORKERS FOR KLEIN $862,618 0.44% Candidate Contributions
GREATER NEW YORK HOSPITAL ASSOCIATION $783,670 0.40% Health
RENT STABILIZATION ASSOCIATION $749,950 0.38% Finance, Insurance & Real Estate
REAL ESTATE BOARD OF NEW YORK $749,124 0.38% Finance, Insurance & Real Estate
CABLEVISION SYSTEMS CORP $730,257 0.37% Communications & Electronics
TABLE 4: Top 15 Industries (Top Industries Total)
Candidate Self-finance $22,919,406
Candidate Committees $15,037,393
Party Committees $13,676,403
Real Estate $13,524,261
Lawyers & Lobbyists $10,909,633
Public Sector Unions $9,568,836
Securities & Investment $8,061,753
General Trade Unions $7,811,443
Insurance $3,339,834
Health Professionals $3,162,600
Hospitals & Nursing Homes $2,869,361
Beer, Wine & Liquor $2,556,129
General Contractors $2,211,550
Telecom Services & Equipment $1,923,930
TV & Movie Production/Distribution $1,337,143
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We need to gain the upper hand.....We need term limits to ensure rotten law makers are not become entrenched in the process for a lifetime, simply because of presidential appointment.
I agree with ending the "individual person" status of the U.S. AND by the way foreign corporations -----------This IS an important cornerstone of reducing corporate power in the U.S.-----but you need to get the best lawyers for this-------you need to make sure corporate america does not fight this cause and makes their powers even stronger in the rewrite----they have endless money and power to usurp this kind of effort---it will take a dedicated, funded team of persistent folks---with publicity to make sure this happens right..... Corporations are endlessly persistent at getting what they want-----look at their 100 year propoganda around keeping U.S. oil companies dominant----they are now advertising everyday that "electric cars are selling poorly" and "there is no momentum in electric cars" Lies, lies and more lies----they see the threat of electric cars to big oil and they will lie and buy the press to try and defeat the real and substantial green movement....
To beat corporate america----you need"
1) an organized and informed network of people and "experts" who cant be bought off. 2) a legal team (that cant be bought off) 3) funding 4) publicity on a consistent basis
This is what works and this is why corporates have been so suceesful in stealing away WE THE PEOPLE's rights and power---these use these tactics against us. NOW LETS USE THEIR TACTICS AGAINST THEM!!!! Boooooooyaaaaaaa------beat them at their own game.
I agree with ending the "individual person" status of the U.S. AND by the way foreign corporations -----------This IS an important cornerstone of reducing corporate power in the U.S.-----but you need to get the best lawyers for this-------you need to make sure corporate america does not fight this cause and makes their powers even stronger in the rewrite----they have endless money and power to usurp this kind of effort---it will take a dedicated, funded team of persistent folks---with publicity to make sure this happens right..... Corporations are endlessly persistent at getting what they want-----look at their 100 year propoganda around keeping U.S. oil companies dominant----they are now advertising everyday that "electric cars are selling poorly" and "there is no momentum in electric cars" Lies, lies and more lies----they see the threat of electric cars to big oil and they will lie and buy the press to try and defeat the real and substantial green movement....
To beat corporate america----you need"
1) an organized and informed network of people and "experts" who cant be bought off. 2) a legal team (that cant be bought off) 3) funding 4) publicity on a consistent basis
This is what works and this is why corporates have been so suceesful in stealing away WE THE PEOPLE's rights and power---these use these tactics against us. NOW LETS USE THEIR TACTICS AGAINST THEM!!!! Boooooooyaaaaaaa------beat them at their own game.
We should OCCUPY the Supreme court.....using symbolism of buckets of tar and feather pillows...and oust them
corporations should be transparent
those that labor for corporations
should be able to openly discuss their wages
and the profits and losses of the business
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that's what I meant...I did misunderstand you and answered with a jabb....my bad
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Why not? If you'll notice...it is catching on...and not just in America....I think Occupy is actually advancing Global Pissed Offness...
One day I will be able to say how wonderful our government is.....not yet tho
Agreed.
Ha - let's see how far we get with ridding American "Citizenship" from corporations. I hope for the best but am not sure most people understand how dangerous this really is.
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shut the fuck up and stay off of this thread asshole....howz that for light humor?
Unless I missunderstood you....if so...oops...I apologize
Corporations are not people.
The Supreme Court has ruled otherwise. Than is why an Amendment to the Constitution is required:
"A corporate entity, in and of itself, is not a person and, therefore, is not entitled to the rights and protections afforded to a person as set forth in the Constitution of the United States of America."
If Corporations are people, they should pay taxes like people! If Corporations were people, they would be able to vote, have kids, get married, go to church, and be held accountable for their actions. None of that is true. Corporations are not people except in the minds of Republicans like Mitt Romney!