Forum Post: Entrepreneurs --- NOT the 1% --- Are the Job Creators
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 23, 2011, 12:12 a.m. EST by Justice4All
(285)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The Top 1% are always looking to lay us in the 99% off or hire cheap labor or export our jobs.
We need entrepreneurs and more new businesses.
Most entrepreneurs are not in the 1%. Most of the 1% are not entrepreneurs but instead money shufflers who take a slice off the top every time they shuffle your money.Yes we need entrepreneurs. The American entrepreneurs will do just fine even when the 1% are asked to contribute their share.
Yes indeed.
What happened in the last 30 years was that the language, ideology and myth of free markets and free enterprise came to be applied to the markets for credit and money.
All that "Road To Serfdom" stuff about free markets maximizing prosperity works in the market for real things.
Wall Street does not produce goods and services.
They don't even "allocate capital to its most productive uses" anymore. (Read Doug Henwood's book).
Exactly right. They, the 1%, feed off the productivity and creativity of our entrepreneurs that enhance all of our lives.
Entrepreneurs are the REAL job creators, NOT Wall St. money people.
the 1% are the ruling elite. Very, very few business owners are in this category.
having to pay for food and housing drives the jobs market
I'll agree with the importance of entrepreneurship, but do small businesses have the capabilities to produce the amount that we consume. How many local farms does it take to feed NYC?
One of the reasons we can consume so much that we take it for granted is because the economy of scale that comes with bigger companies.
Economies of scale mean they make more money as they get bigger; i.e., their costs are lower the bigger they get.
Corporatism.
What's wrong with making more the more they produce? We're the ones consuming it.
Not sure I said there was something wrong with it. What is wrong with corporatism is that they get preferential tax treatments, incentives to fire us and hire in other countries, subsidies, sit on trillions of dollars, cut our benefits, etc.
Yeah I agree those are problems, but I'd say it comes more from the government then from corporations. I mean everyone wants to get what they can, unions do the same thing don't they.
Unions support fairness. But, yes, there are "good" Unions and "bad" unions.
But for unions, we would have absolutely zero rights as workers.
We need more unions.
Honestly, more and more entrepreneurs these days are trying to hire cheaper resources offshore...
According to Ha-joon Chang, the more growth a country has the lesser there is entrepreneurship.
Benin has 89 percent entrepreneurship and that's in Sub-saharan Africa.
It's so true.. Many an entrepreneur is trying to save the planet. It's only when they get money and influence that they are corrupted. Source: personal experience.
Right. Money has the power to corrupt. The more you make, the more you want as well. It is an appetite that cannot be satiated (see e.g. Wall St.)
I think you will find the 1% are by nature entrepreneurs.
I disagree. They want to feed off entrepreneurs, but that does not make them entrepreneurial. They are not added or improving or creating; they are exchanging paper and making money on it.
And they evade taxes.
Who is the 1%? Are you judging by wealth or the politicians that pretend to be on our side?
The 1% are those who (a) influence the laws to (b) undermine the middle-class in the U.S.A. for (c) economic benefit.
We, in the 99%, need each other to build businesses, purchase/sell goods and services.
The 1% wrote us off.
Ok I'm in agreement with you then. It's hard to tell on this forum. As ows tends to despise anyone with money. Who is an example of the 1%? I'm trying to understand the the movement.
The prototypical 1%, in my opinion, would be someone like former Pres. Bush: elitist, skulls and bones, foreign money, oil, combination of politics and corporatism for the benefit of the few, disdains the 99% (but good actor; btw he is not a "texan," he was born on the east coast).
Fair enough, I would share your sentiments then. The bushes have not done anything of good in the world, I believe it was the grandfather that made the money that they have abused since......
Yes. And Bush the Younger used those connections to form (failed) oil companies, purchase baseball teams, run for office, etc.
We need to elect wise people from the 99%.
No their not. Most are coupon clipping lay abouts who made their fortunes the old fashioned way, they inherited it. Read ex. Conservative propagandist Kevin Philips on who the rich are in great detail.
ok , i like this idea. what do we want to make , sell , or do?
cure cancer ? build mice traps sell used TVs if you don't have a job , would you give your time to a buisness IF it might never turn a profit but offered future rewards if possible ?
All of the above. We need to spark entrepreneurial activity again. The problem is that most Americans are so saddled with debt ---mortgage, student loan--- that it is preventing the creation of new businesses, new services, new products, and new jobs.
The rescission of debt may be necessary for the country to engage in entrepreneurial activity.
so , can we draw up a buisness plan while we are here and flip the switch?
Yes. Business plans can be helpful.
lol , i hoped you would catch my attempt to say my true point. even a simple idea from a simple person can still be great if people will pick up where he left off.
Absolutely. We need a spirit of entrepreneurial activity again. MY THEORY is that because of uncertainty with housing, unemployment, and excessive student loan debt, people are restrained.
A related idea is that, as the middle class has been drained, there are fewer people with that little bit extra to tide them over while they get a business up and running.
It's a related restraint, I think.
Right! It is why I support (a) foreclosure moratorium, (b) loan modifications, and (c) student loan amnesty.
We have 1 trillion in student loan debt, not including interest, that is paid to wall st. It is an enormous economic burden because that debt cannot be discharged, which necessitates amnesty.
9 in 10 businesses fail within 5 years.
can we help the 9?
Probably not. From my own experiences, starting the business is the easy and fun part. Having the self discipline to run for years is the tough part. Most just dont have what it takes, plain and simple
so, many people will remain poor?
Has many has it takes to get motivated again. People are great achievers, they just have to really want it bad enough.
I offered to clear out the phone banks by creating a system where people can make requests online
that business no longer need employ those human operators
Right. And the death of the middle class in the USA does not matter anymore because they want "new" markets.
technology does a fine job of reducing need for human labor
Technology can also create new businesses and new jobs as well.
that need human labor ?
Yes.
it just isn't necessary for all people to be always working
so how do we pay them to just think then ?
the zeal to make sure every human being is productive as possible
sounds like a randy nightmare
we have a big video game generation at the moment. im sure there is a way to turn there actions into profit. I bet you could get a group of gamers together and in under a month accomplish something.
Right. The top 1% have nothing to do with the new businesses and new jobs in the market. Entrepreneurs use their own life savings, money from family, etc. to start these new businesses and create new jobs.
and the moment a small guy has a big idea what happens then ?
Some big business asshole comes along, steals the idea, and markets it as their own, effectively killing the small business who invented it.
Looking at you Microsoft.
imagine if a large group of under employed folks did something as a group to out create microsoft. I mean it's all 010101 . there is no warehouse , no office space , no retail store needed anymore. how do you spark fire to make that engine run ?
or get this damn bluetooth keyboard to pick up each keystoke for starters.
That's happened already. It's called Linux, it's called opensource, and MS hates it sooooo much. The opensource world simply out-innovates them. See, MS talks about innovation, but they can't innovate. They only copy and steal, and never get either right.
so , lets copy what they got right , repackage the UI. put it in a shinny box and sell it for more than it's worth. i don't believe there is a law against giving money back. assuming they never new the return was there. until after the purchase and moments after the return hit there credit card.
you would create free money for folks to use as best they saw fit , but ask them to please use it to improve on what we have not buy something new.
"i don't believe there is a law against giving money back. assuming they never new the return was there. until after the purchase and moments after the return hit there credit card."
Say you went out and bought a PC. It came with Vista, which is a Frankenstein monster of an os. More like Mr. Hyde without a Jekyll side. It really sucks.Well MS, in hating competition - and by extension, their own customers - has the game rigged. They want you to have no choice. So you're stuck with that crap, or you can sidestep their game and install Linux. Since installing Linux, you can get a refund on the unused Vista install, right?
Think again. You'd find out that MS is very reluctant to give your money back. Got screwed? You betcha.
well charge them the same for linux, a return what you don't need after they buy it. EVEN IF THEY LOVE IT.
Linux is free, dude. No price and no usage restrictions.
yes , so it's a shit product or you need to charge for it to fight with microsoft.
if they wont come to your camp fire . build one infront of them.
Way to critical think. No, it's not a shit product. I'll point out one of many advantages: Malware resistance.
Known viruses for Linux - In the wild, virtually zero. What few exist are computer lab curiosities, and pose no more than a nuisance threat at best.
Known malware for Windows - well over 60 billion known viruses, botnets, and malware, and rising. "Windows Security" is an oxymoron, and as much a myth as "job creators".
"ok so it's better , put a pricetag on the fucken box. and up your distribution network already.
assuming you can make a box first. your already writting kick ass code. why not learn how to make a kick ass box on the cheap as well.
the average daily balance on the account could be the profit , or capital to keep the machine running if you do it right."
Now you're thinking with gas. :) We're way ahead of you. There's a few small 'white box' (that is, machines built from scratch, off the shelf parts) and 'grey box' (recycled computers) specialist shops that sell powerful machines with Linux installed. Those computers are usually half the price or less than a comparable Windows computer.
Yeah, squeezing in edgewise into the chain store market has been an obstacle. MS gets in the way with heavy propaganda, collusions and bribery. They hate all competition, remember.
When a hostile corp has the game sewn up in their favor, and have limitless funds to out-advertize you, bully the big OEMS against you, and collude you out of chain stores, you go ninja on 'em. Word of mouth advertizing, websites easily found with Google, and even Google's backing with Android phones. Yup, Droid is Linux powered. Even nettop computers were all Linux powered untill MS started bullying the OEMs to make Windows versions.
ok so it's better , put a price tag on the fucken box. and up your distribution network already.
assuming you can make a box first. your already written kick ass code. why not learn how to make a kick ass box on the cheap as well.
the average daily balance on the account could be the profit , or capital to keep the machine running if you do it right.
if your right you have them beat on
they have you beat on 1 folks already have it 2 distribution of product 3 distribution of knowledge at places like best buy. ( notice LIKE was used )
to change any game you need to beat them at there own first. show MS a better way.
Definitely agree. Tax reform in the right direction needs to happen to ensure that the middle-class continues to create the jobs that the upper-class outsources to China and Mexico.
OK so when entrepreneurs (esp in the tech sector) have a successful idea and get launched into the 1% overnight...then what? Once they succeed you don't like them anymore?
if they cant cure cancer, who gives a fuck how much money they have.
lets call the 99% Jack for a moment
If jack gets cancer he will
if jack makes a billion dollars he will then
now lets call the 1% jack for a moment
if jack makes a billion dollars he will then
If jack gets cancer he will then
seems if there are two jacks they would find a way to work together on the whole cancer thing right.
Very relevant contribution to the discussion at hand.
I would propose that sole proprietors should be taxed at much lower rates. There is a difference between a bill gates/zuckerberg/jobs and the walton family or the getty's. Anyone can live on inherited wealth that was made 30-100 years ago
Greed is all well and good as long as you are actually creating business. Today most corps just exist off their marketshare. Instead of competing, they merge. Merging isn't competition....
This is not black and white, but shades of gray.
And if the 1 percent vanished...what do you believe would happen? (please refrain from unrealistic senarios that involve utopian ideals).
vanished? What if the entrepreneurs vanished? The people that innovate, sacrifice, and work their asses off!
The common ruse is that we "need" the 1%; they need us!
No ruse, just a harsh reality. A collective want will not change the structure; the interconnectivity of a world economy would dissolve.....and then people would really know what it's like to want.
Takes money to make money... And the 1% has the money.
Kind of tough being an "entrepreneur" when:
You have no capital
No one will extend you credit, and...
The economy is so screwed that no one can afford to buy your goods and services anyway
That is what Venture Capital is for; if an idea if truly unique and entrepreneurial, $ is available.
Oh please...
VC is used BY and almost exclusively FOR the 1%. Even if your idea is extraordinarily good, unique and entrepreneurial, the chances of getting a VC to back you are slim. Without at least $100k of starting capital and a lot of friends in high places. Very, very few are ever able to obtain these kinds of funds. Hell, the average American doesn't even know where to begin looking for such investors.
Besides, VCs put their money almost exclusively in businesses that are destined to become "too big to fail". Meaning the mom & pop restaurant down the street, the local independent grocer, the painting contractor and the auto repair shop are never going to have access to those funds.
VC is part of the problem in this country, not part of the solution.
Well, it took me one year and 3 months of research, meetings, networking to solidify a VC deal for my small business in Milwaukee. We developed an alternative fuel that burns at same BTU as coal without all the sulfur, ash, and carbon. So yes, with effort, anything is possible. I will even send you pictures of product as proof.
Sweet!
Good for you.
How 'bout you post some links here so we can all see the good work you are doing in renewable energy?
Surely you have:
Send me an email and I will provide you pdf's of our test results and pictures of the product we created. No links to V C nor our website due to proprietary considerations, including, but not limited to confidentiality agreements. I will give you the basics including where/how this product will be used, etc.
Calling your bluff:
Send you an email where?
If you aren't going to post your website URL on here, you're certainly not going to post your email address either.
I think you made the whole thing up.
Post a link to ANYTHING!
Like this:
http://metapolitik.org
Metapolitik.din studio.com
That's your link?
A perversion of my URL and a 'link-farm'?
Way to bolster your weak argument.
I guess I did say: "Post a link to ANYTHING"
You wanted proof............enough. The reality is I had an idea, developed it...marketed it, secured VC funding for my small business. Mind you, this did not happen quickly and I will not see a ROI for another year.
That's fine.
I'm just saying that I do not swallow your story or your defense of Capitalism.
The reality is that more regulation needs to be in place, yet, everyone must recognize that Capitalism just won't vanish in lieu of another "ism". Each system has its own frailties. Best wishes on your endeavor here and with OWS.....wherever it may take you.
It's going to take me a moment...I am working and not sitting in a park. But this effort will be well worth it so that you can brood. BRB
Still waiting...
So much truth to that. Absolutely. The banks, the 1%, are sitting on trillions of dollars. Worse, they will not extend to us credit even though some of us have excellent credit.
They have "frozen" the economy. We need debt relief, foreclosure moratorium, and student loan amnesty for this economy to recover.
Or, we could just start our own:
Labor backed currency
Nation within the nation
Worker owned businesses
And then forget about Wall St. entirely and watch the value of their trillions dwindle to nothing as all confidence in US currency dries up.
http://metapolitik.org/blog/strategic-banking
http://metapolitik.org/content/demands
The currency we use is really a Federal Reserve Note; we could nationalize or abolish the Fed.
Well, I am not sure I support a nation within a nation. We have a great nation, but our nation is dominated by the interests of the 1%.
There are many worker-owned businesses. Some work out well, and others do not work out well.
True
Doesn't sound so great any more to me
They usually work out quite well. Anyway you could say the same thing about privately owned businesses:
"There are many privately-owned businesses. Some work out well, and others do not work out well."
Yes. That is true. Businesses are many and varied, different cultures.
We cannot have an entrepreneurial spirit when we have excess personal debt and the top 1% get preferential tax treatment, pay no taxes, ship jobs overseas, have incentives to fire American workers - you name it.
We are honestly and sincerely taking our country back. We have no choice.
It's either that or starve in the gutters while the 1% eats foie gras and sips champagne.
Buy from local businesses and not big box stores. Buy only Made In USA products. I believe this can help us with jobs here in the USA.
Tom Cruise is the devil incarnate
I wanna Go Fast. like the race car kind not the gandhi kind.
Maybe we can give successful entrepreneurs a trophy like an Oscar instead of the huge profit they make.
Profit is good. We are all pro profit. We are talking about MEGA corporations receiving undue advantages and preferential tax treatment, which makes it difficult if not possible for our entrepreneurs to compete with them.
Profit is great.
This is actually not true. "Small business" employs a relatively small amount of workers in the united states.
The ol' political talking point of small business being the foundation of employment just isn't a reality.
http://www.npr.org/2011/09/27/140854971/who-are-the-job-creators
Totally bogus. WOLFERS states:
"Ninety percent of those are small businesses, which means they have, you know, 20 or fewer employees. Those 90 percent of all firms only make up 20 percent of all jobs. So while there's lot of businesses, there's not a lot of jobs in small business."
The US Small Business Administration (SBA) recognizes any business with 500 or less employees as a "small business"....not 20 or less. An argument can be made that 500 is too large of a number, but that number is currently the official number used by our government.
WOLFER knew better, he chose to mislead an uninformed audience.
Government knows best, right?
Nope! I just don't want to let my emotions cloud my judgement. Facts are the facts. If the government (SBA) wants to lower the number to 20....FINE. I will then use the number 20 for any intellectual economic analysis.
The guy you're quoting is from the right win biased Brookings Institution. According to the SBA small business employs about half and created about 65% of net new jobs between 1993 and 2009http://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/sbfaq.pdf
The SBA counts corporations that have up to 500 workers.
500 is not "small".
Well I guess you're argument is with the SBA. At its peak GM employed 600,000 so I guess it's all relative.
If a corp employs a number of employees, unless it is going through large scale expansion (which is not the norm in their business model), and if it's doing reasonably well, their job slots will roughly match the population growth of the country (give or take based on their actual demand) along with population. So their employment percentage of the country remains normalized. Entrepreneurs, on the other hand, create business verticals where there were not previously, hence, they are creating new job opportunities and work force percentages where there previously were none. So yes, they are job creators, large corps are job stabilizers.
Mid-sized companies are much more likely to be innovative than start-ups and small companies.
http://www.npr.org/2011/10/17/141427329/mid-sized
Mid sized businesses certainly drive the economy since they are the ones most likely to be upwardly mobile and expanding. But those verticals are created from initial ventures and entrepreneurs, so it could be argued that they are the seeds of growth.
http://www.npr.org/2011/09/27/140854971/who-are-the-job-creators
More interesting conversation before I go.
Honestly, I'm not sure why DC or analysts are singling out parts of the corp train, from startup to large scale, as being important, when they all are.
Because the sound bites are good when a politician is talking about protecting small businesses.
You are joking, right? The biggest corporations employ a relatively small amount of people.
Most people work for small businesses, not even mid-sized businesses.
Sheesh. That is a "common knowledge," booshington.
Here ya go: http://www.npr.org/2011/09/27/140854971/who-are-the-job-creators
That's the "common knowledge" that has been fed to you. The SBA classifies a small business as one with less than 500 employees, which is ridiculous when it's generally a range of 15-50 employees everywhere else in the world.
Given the range of 1-50 employees, small business in America accounts for the majority of businesses and a smallish minority of actual employees.
Absolutely. Small business is the majority of businesses and hire by far and by overwhelming numbers more Americans than ENORMOUS corporate America.
Yeah this is wrong. Small businesses do not account for most of the jobs here.
Would you really consider a business with 500 employees "small"? Of course not.
Medium and large sized businesses employ many times more people than small businesses do.
http://www.npr.org/2011/09/27/140854971/who-are-the-job-creators
Dude, come on, that is one dude's opinion.
How can you consider a company with hundreds of employees to be small?
Actually, it's mid-sized and large business that does most of the hiring.
We need small business for another reason: successful small businesses grow into mid-sized and large businesses and then hire people, as the older companies die out.