Forum Post: Embrace the Trolls
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 18, 2011, 12:40 p.m. EST by synonymous
(161)
from New York, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
This movement is a learning curve, these "trolls" are not so different from us. They are only confused by change. External labels and posturing distracts us from the fact that we are all world citizens. "They" are part of our community too. try taking a minute to invite them to express themselves. They will come around when they understand that their (positive) opinion is valued. This Movement is not about specific politicians...they come and go...it is about the future of humanity....
Or, get some moderators on here. Much better option IMO.
It's important that synonymous put "trolls" in quotes. I see a lot of accusations of trolling flying around on the basis of one sentence that the other person said. I think his intent was to say, give people the benefit of the doubt. If someone really is a troll, of course you should ignore them, but don't just jump to that conclusion because they say something you don't agree with.
If someone says one sentence or expresses an opinion you do not agree with and you feel the urge to call them a troll, check yourself.
If someone says something divisive or obviously trolling, just don't engage them, you gain nothing by firing back.
Thx meep, well stated!
No, they won't. We've all tried this and it only leads to more trolling. Trolls thrive on people who try to engage them as anything but trolls.
Sick of trolls? Forum look broken? Head over to the new one at http://www.TheMultitude.org . "If you want something that will actually work, go here and make it work. This isn't a game; don't stick around a place that treats it like one. "
Troll want you to be serious.
So the way to confront them is by cracking jokes at them.
Or with them then you blurt the one statement that will shank em.
My favorite trolls are the ones that pretend to be rich. Messing with their heads is epic lulz. :)
The future world currency is our personal reputation...the meanies will soon find themselves ostracized and lonely, they need all the help we can give them...
At that future point I'll be glad to donate my time to the troll support group hotline.
Try it now if you have the time...think of the patience health care workers have when dealing with the mentally ill...people that have only been shown meanness can only reflect meanness in their actions...
"think of the patience health care workers have when dealing with the mentally ill"
Haha, that's beautiful.
Yes I've tried it as have many others. Again, this is only doing what they want you to do. While you're trying to talk rationally, they're laughing at your effort. But do what you like.
Hey laugh with me, laugh at me, as long as yer laughing... They want a clever, negative reply...like couples that fight all the time...it is a way of getting emotional energy...be nice and they wont have a chance....cleverness is not a great indicator of intelligence...remember, we have lotsa clever politicians and a broken system
What you're not understanding is that this isn't a game. This forum is intended to help the movement organize. By replying, you help trolls divert attention and disrupt the forum. Though I'm not against the injection of some humor in threads, really if you want a laugh, please, read a joke book.
I feel that these forums(and so many comments all over the webs) are the beginning of Opensource Groupthink...tho it will take a while for everyone to come around, This learning curve does look messy at the moment but eventually "we the people" will find consensus and space for all opinions(i dont mean conforming either)
"Remember fascism has two faces"
4chan is a groupthink. Productivity doesn't happen there. This forum is for organizing a movement, and that can't be done if it's run in the manner you're describing. You're envisioning something that might be nice to have, but belongs somewhere else.
As I said before this is a learning curve for our generation. We create our own reality. Soon the cronys will be gone from this earth. We must create the new perspective... This will take time...I don't expect this to be resolved for a while, so be prepared to hunker down and create inclusivity for all those interested to participate.
"equazcion", I hold your opinions in high regard and agree that "This forum is intended to help the movement organize." We must never lost sight of that. But NEVER laugh??? If we look like a straight-laced, humorless lot, that won't serve our cause. A sense of humor is a sign of a good, healthy general attitude toward life... INCLUDING political struggle.
In his memoirs about life in Auschwitz, psychoanalyst Dr. Viktor Frankl says that HUMOR was one of the things that kept them alive... If it's good enough for Auschwitz, then it must be good enough for contemporary America.
That being said, I agree that the main focus should DEFINITELY be on serious debate.
I also said "I'm not against the injection of some humor in threads", though. I'm definitely not against laughing. If you check around this forum you'll see more than my fair share of humor. There's a difference between cracking a joke yourself and making use of troll exchanges to do it, though, which helps them steal focus, though it may be fun.
Thank you for that, equazcion. I think we are on the same wavelength...
May I ask you a question, as you seem well informed and reliable?
On a post about Obama, I came across a person who regularly uses expressions such as "We at OWS believe", etc. Here's an example: "We are a pro-change movement that is non-partisan. We don't care what party you're affiliated with or what ideology you subscribe to (...)" And then this person goes on to make a long list of Obama's "successes", the 3rd of which is an assassination : "He had Osama bin Laden found and killed". Funny, she doesn't mention the two American citizens who were recently assassinated under direct orders from the decidedly blood-spattered White House.
But I digress... My question is this : Has OWS officially authorized anyone to use the pronoun "We" as if they were actually speaking ON BEHALF OF THE MOVEMENT as a whole? I challenged the person on that point, asking: "The "we" makes it sound as though you are speaking for the Movement. ARE YOU IN FACT AUTHORIZED to do so by OWS? Are you the official spokesperson for the Movement? " And after much equivocation, she offered this answer: "OWS has no spokesperson; we all speak for the movement. What we say is either true or false of the movement, i.e. it genuinely represents the movement or it misrepresents the movement."
To which I responded : "If this is literally true, then it makes NO SENSE AT ALL. Any psycho with a computer anywhere in the world could start pontificating and making the most absurd, contradictory, inflammatory or even unlawful statements and preface them with a casual: "We at OWS think...." and nobody would know that he's just delirious! Don't you agree with me that it would spell utter chaos?"
equazcion, I seem to recall an OFFICIAL POST by OWS emphatically stating that no statement coming from any person is to be taken as an official OWS position unless it is posted by "OccupyWallSt". I also seem to recall that OWS does in fact have an official spokesperson, a 23-year-old man with whom I've already exchanged emails. If that is not the case, then I truly am concerned that certain manipulative people could do some "OWS-posing" to further their own agendas which may be at odds with OWS goals.
What do you think?
I think OWS-posing is a major concern and has already happened to a certain degree.
I've been guilty of using the term "we" to make statements, usually when people come genuinely asking for information about the movement. "We at OWS" is decidedly different language and while it technically shouldn't be different, it implies something much more. No one should ever use such phrasing unless the statement they're about to make was extensively discussed via the General Assembly, etc.
Many people won't be able to understand the difference between what the movement stands for and what should be confined to more personalized language.
"We" stand for changes to the various systems that have power over the public, that will cause a cessation to the extraction of money from the bottom 99% of the wealth gap.
"I personally feel" that Obama/Paul is/is not the best way to make this happen.
Any party or candidate leanings should not be spoken on behalf of the movement, because the method for change is not something "we" have chosen to outline (yet, and may never will). We rather demand that change start, and we'll stop protesting when we're satisfied that a positive change has occurred and will persist.
Thank you for a helpful response.
Is this person right in claiming : "OWS has no spokesperson; we all speak for the movement. What we say is either true or false of the movement, i.e. it genuinely represents the movement or it misrepresents the movement." Sounds like the perfect recipe for chaos.
If, as you mention, "OWS-posing is a major concern and has already happened to a certain degree", could OWS not intervene at least in the most blatant cases of intellectual dishonesty and manipulation of the readers of this forum? Quite honestly, I would like OWS to send email warnings to people who engage in such disloyal practices. And if a warning was not heeded, then the person would lose her privilege to participate in the forum.
I'm unable to reply directly at your comment so I'm doing it here.
"Is this person right in claiming : 'OWS has no spokesperson; we all speak for the movement. What we say is either true or false of the movement, i.e. it genuinely represents the movement or it misrepresents the movement.' Sounds like the perfect recipe for chaos."
It's arguable whether or not OWS has a spokesperson. From my perspective, the original organizers sometimes make statements, but we do most of our communication with the public through our collective voice. Make enough noise and people will eventually get the idea. If they don't, make more noise. When they get it right and start responding the right way, we'll quiet down.
"If, as you mention, 'OWS-posing is a major concern and has already happened to a certain degree', could OWS not intervene at least in the most blatant cases of intellectual dishonesty and manipulation of the readers of this forum? Quite honestly, I would like OWS to send email warnings to people who engage in such disloyal practices. And if a warning was not heeded, then the person would lose her privilege to participate in the forum."
A movement that prides itself on lack of specifics is going to always leave itself open to those trying to designate the specifics. We walk a fine line between open communication and preserving our real intent. Your approach seems rather draconian for this movement. When someone misrepresents it, hopefully they do so in a place like this one -- or, at least, some open forum -- where other movement members can jump on such attempts and adequately shout them down. Administrative intervention regarding their right to say such a thing to begin with isn't necessary or advisable. Let the people debate.
Word!
Most trolls are just looking for attention and their attitudes are the result of divisive opinions the media has influenced in them. If they are genuine, they just want to exchange ideas, and they will even join you.
Sure but did you meet iloveobamasmama yet. Cause he just posts and reposts 3000 odd Chinese characters.
Your are confusing a troll with a legitimate dissenter... a troll has no intentions other than instigating unsuspecting debaters.
u means i can haz da moneyz too????
the Trolls are being sent here by Godlike Productions
the Trolls are being sent here by Godlike Productions
hmm...I bet God(the Universe) would be pissed at those who think they are speaking for him...
Could you possibly be a bit naive? COMPASSION IS GOOD, but can sometimes be misplaced. :)
Trolls are PAID by goverment or certain large corporations to do mischief. Sure, they are human, but they have to do what they are being paid for, otherwise they get fired. I DO briefly engage them once in a while, hoping to make contact with "the image of God" which is in them as it is in everyone of us, but as a rule I try not to waste ANY time with them.
We have WORK to do on this site, as there is of course a "WAR OF IDEAS" on in America, between the 99% and the very powerful and noisy 1%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ntrepid
Scary!!
As a Linux user, I'm familiar with the term 'astroturfer'. Astroturfers are trolls paid to infect forums and blab the views of their employer. In the Linux world, astroturfers act on orders from Microsoft, who hate the existence of Linux. Some have been IP traced right to Microsoft itself.
Now folks, it's entirely possible we're being trolled by astroturfers; we're a threat to the moneyscum, and much of the trolling here has sounded like the worse propaganda from Fox News, Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck, and Rush Limbaugh. And who signs the paychecks of those media whores? Follow the money.
Why was I thrown of here for speaking out on the hipocrasy of unions
Really? I want to hear what you have to say, even if i might not agree w/ you...Repost please!
I have a problem with the unions they buy our politicians like the corps
Yup, its true, Money creates access dont it? If we got money out of politics, the unions wouldn't be allowed to lobby either, only citizens....
Yeppers
They are learning too...albeit slowly....I keep reminding myself that every person I come across is fighting their own battle..."We the people" is all of us even the jerks...
That is of course absolutely TRUE and we should never lose sight of it.. But in the relative world, we have choices to make : what is the best use of my limited time?
Just as an example of "troll infestation" and attempts to engage them, please check out my Michael Moore post, which elicited a whopping 98 comments...
http://occupywallst.org/forum/michael-moore-gets-giddy-over-occupy-wall-street-f/#comment-119306
OH MY GOD LOL trolls are paid? where the fuck is my money then? you ignorant bitch
Your check's in the mail...
I thought you didn't waste any time with trolls? Sorry, gotta call you on it :)
I wrote exactly the following: "I DO briefly engage them once in a while, hoping to make contact with "the image of God" which is in them as it is in everyone of us, but as a rule I try not to waste ANY time with them."
Clear?
Clear, and I agree completely, though I question your tactics. "Your check's in the mail..." doesn't seem to be a good way to make contact with "the image of God".
Sorry to disappoint you, but sometimes a bit of humor is all the time I have for them... especially for one who calls me "you ignorant bitch". What was I supposed to say: "I love dogs too"?
The other day, a troll called me an "asshole" and I responded : "Thank you for the metaphor... That oft-maligned part of the human anatomy is actually very good and noble in every respect, as it serves to expel those poisons that would otherwise result in premature death. If I can contribute, albeit in a small way, to free the "body politic" in America of her social, economic, political and religious poisons, then I will be a very honoured and happy asshole indeed."
I withdraw in awe of your clearly superior satirical might :)
Life, Love, Laughter! :)
Agree like a baby...
Now those are classy comebacks. You be awesome. :)
My secret: I work for God. The pay is terrible but the benefits are... indescribable.
The trolls will get bored. We won't.
I doubt they will get bored, as most of them are PAID to troll.
Well, then lets continue the job creation.
LOL Hey Barack, is this trollfest part of your job creation plan???
[Removed]
word to that. have some OWS swag, a poll, and need to see video of Carlin here > http://blog.richardkentgates.com