Forum Post: DUMP OBAMA! Occupy does not want him!
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 14, 2011, 12:29 a.m. EST by grepcat
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Never submit to the left right false dichtomy.
Obama plans to win re-election on fear. He thinks we will automatically vote for him because we fear republican rule. Fuck republican rule we lived with it before Obama and we can survive it again until our next opportunity to vote for hope and real change. We need to send demobrats the message that our vote isn't guaranteed, they better start doing the work of the people, or the people will venture the land in search of a new party!
Amen!
The answer to division is Unity, the best way for us to become ONE is to Do As One, we can achieve that by breathing together synchronously. The word conspire comes from 2 Latin root words: con= with or together, and spirare = breathe. Therefore the true meaning of the word conspire is "to breathe together". Do As One, is a non-profit that promotes Unity by group synchronous breathing. On the website, doasone.org there are breathing rooms where we can synchronize our breath. Tomorrow, when this movement goes global, synchronous breathing could be just the thing we need to become One with the many.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: One of the main pillars of Conservative propaganda is that both parties are the same. Nothing they say is further from the truth. It is an insidious lie intended to demoralize progressives, and discourage them from voting. Do not fall for this canard, because if both parties are the same, there is no hope for change, and therefore no reason to vote. The truth is that there is a difference between the parties. A stark difference! One party works for the rich, the other party works for all Americans. One party takes money from the needy to feed the greedy, and the other party takes money from the greedy to feed the needy. One party has plans and policies to create jobs, and the other party has a long list of lame excuses for not doing anything. Liberals want to change things. Conservatives want things to stay the same. There is a difference. One party wants to tax the rich, and the other party wants to tax the poor. One party wants to destroy Unions, and the other party wants to support them. One party supports the Occupation of Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to rebuild America, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to provide health care for all, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to regulate Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One Party wants to end the wars; the other party wants them to go on forever. There is a difference. One party is Myopic, and the other party is Far Sighted. One party wants to help the Middle Class, and the other party is at war with the Middle Class. One party wants to fire Teachers, and the other party wants to hire them. One party wants to create more jobs in America, and the other party wants to create more jobs in Asia. There is a difference. One party wants to protect pensions, and the other party wants to loot them. One party has a heart, and the other party has Ann Coulter. One party protects the right bear Arms, and the other party protects the right of freedom of assembly. One party believes that the only role for the Government is to provide for the common defense, and the other party believes that the Government should also promote the general Welfare. There is a difference, and anybody that tells you there is no difference between the parties is simply not conversant with reality. In addition, anyone that blames the Democrats for the current state of affairs has no understanding of who controls the Government. One Party has the Presidency, and the other party has the Majority in the House, controls the Senate, has a majority on the Supreme Court, and is responsible for current economic policy. So, if you’re angry, and you want to start a real fight, I submit that we should start a real fight with the Conservatives! America has a Two Party System. One party is clearly on your side, the other party thinks you’re and Anti-American mob. At some point in time you’re going to have to pick one. Choose wisely, your future is at stake
"One party is clearly on your side..." Both parties have pushed war and massive bailouts for banksters, and it was OBAMA who put social security on the chopping block. "Obama wants to be remembered as the president who brought the Republicans and the right wing of the Democratic Party into harmonious consensus – over the dead carcass of the New Deal. That’s what he means by 'Go Big!'" -- Glen Ford, Black Agenda Report [http://blackagendareport.com/content/obama-subverts-social-security]
Obama is a bad joke perpetrated on folks looking to improve their lives. As soon as he appointed crony capitalists Geintner and Summers, I knew we were screwed.
We don't need Obama. We need to focus our demand for goods on American products and manufacturers. American companies are ones that exist only in America and pay their fair share of taxes. NO MULTINATIONAL CORPORATION REGARDLESS OF ORIGIN IS AN AMERICAN CORPORATION. Corporations achieve multinational status for two primary reasons; to screw their workforce by shipping jobs abroad and to not pay taxes.
If we want jobs to come back, we need to demand that companies manufacture here. I never shop at wal-mart they are the face of China Inc.
That loser Obama screwed us again when he signed the free job export bill earlier in the week. All these so called "free trade agreements" are the export of jobs for trinkets. Don't buy the crap. This includes the iphone and ipad.
The best way is for OWS to choose it's own independent candidate and support him/her. The danger is that's when Obama will crack down on the movement. For now his operatives have complete control of OWS and using you all as tools....
Just get organized and forget about candidates. Organize and instill fear into them. It is all they know.
I know missy, but this movement must reject him in public! I live around Obama supporters, voters, the romance is over they are trying to distance themselves from him. I have noticed a change in their posture. The support is gone. He must be rejected by the movement or his support of it in public will alienate the grass roots support of this protest. I know presidents are just lackys, I know they are intimidated by CEOs.
Obama's WIn Scheme. Yesterday really smart kids who have good education and just got hired told me I am fool and this is Obama's Win Scheme OWS. That is what most of the people I met think about OWS. Are we being taken for a ride.
That is why OWS must disavow the democratic (and republican) party and Obama.
A good article on the topic:
http://www.salon.com/2011/10/11/can_ows_be_turned_into_a_democratic_party_movement/singleton/
There's a documentary called "The President's Book of Secrets" that's worth watching. I've long had the feeling that the first thing any new president learns upon taking office is who's really running things. President Obama did promise in the campaign to close Guantanamo. He didn't. He promised to get our troops out of Afghanistan and sent more. Some, like JFK, may have tried to "buck the system". Did he pay for that with his life in Dallas? Not being a conspiracy theorist, but I think it's food for thought. Check out this thought-provoking documentary if you can.
I do....he's done a lot...as much as he could with the party of no blocking everything
The president has the power to bring any issue onto the table, stage one, for public debate. So far he has not brought those issues onto the table. The HAMP program for instance, the only thing seemingly populist he has done, leaves those homeowners who finally make it through the hustle successfully engaging the program, owing as much or more than they did before. They were just banking on the fact that you are math challenged.
I disagree that he has done as much as he can. If a person is brought bleeding to the emergency room, what is the first thing that you do? You stop the bleeding before performing a transfusion. Obama has not provided any ideas to stop the bleeding of American jobs to China and India. I would give him credit for suggesting something ...anything. It took him 3 years to come up with a plan that makes no sense. Why would any business take money to take on the expense of a worker if there was no demand. What will likely happen is that the legislation will be so poorly written that it will allow the creation of jobs in China. This is not money well spent.
Demand drives jobs. He can create demand in two ways. Public works projects. Asking the American people to buy American products. Many will say this is protectionist. Yes, it is. The folks impacted by trade wars are the 1% outsourcing jobs to China and India. Taking 3 years to develop a poor solution for our biggest problem seems OK to you?
Again...let me reiterate....Mitch McConnell...Jim Demented...John Boehner and Eric Cantor have said they will do whatever it takes to make Obama's presidency fail and make him a one term president...they have blocked everything he has attempted to do.
How dare they call themselves Americans or patriotic....they are sniveling weasels.
That is not only an outright assault on the Obama administration...it is an attack and an insult to the American people...because of them....our recovery from this depression has been halted.
My bitch with Obama is....he keeps reaching out thinking he will get some cooperation from the GOP....and he won't get it.
I agree with you that he tried to be the adult in the room for too long. I wonder about his judgment, how many times should you be hit before you fight back? I hope he steps aside so a real fighter is nominated.
I agree with you that getting anything done with the naysayers is virtually impossible. That is not my beef. My beef is that he has put forth many lame late ideas to help unemployment. If he brought good timely ideas to the American people, hopefully we could motivate spineless representatives and senators to take action.
He has never leveled with the American people how their economic choices are making things worse. That is true leadership to me. I know what I am asking for is difficult. At the end of the day there is one real question. Is he the president of the American people or multinational corporations? There are not enough corporations to vote him in no matter how much money they contribute to his campaign.
I give him a D- for his ideas to get unemployed Americans back to work. I do not criticize him at all for getting anything done. Before you can take action, you must have a plan and he showed up a few years late for the party. I don't need to see another 4 years of this.
My opinion differs from yours...Obama has had many great ideas including the most recent American Jobs act....his problem has been that he keeps chipping off the original plans to appease republicans...in hope that getting something for America is better than nothing. I say....make clear what we need and what we want and don't take no for an answer....Reid and Pelosi have not been up to snuff either...I give them all a D on that end of negotiation skills.
Any washington protest needs to be on K Street
naming are bad guy won't bring about economic justice
True, but OWS movement must divorce themselves from Obama or bo co-opted, USED by him. He has been using the movement offering lip support to paint himself in a positive light for campaign purposes. Next step, Democrat politicians speaking at OWS rallies, movement OVER. Remember the Tea Party. This is what happened.
We have been betrayed by politicians too many times to trust them.
9 9 9
Occupy supports no candidate as far as i know. If Occupy did it would be in the news section and i have not seen it there. I will support, personally, any candidate from any part of the spectrum that does what the 99% tells them to as a collective. When they stop doing what 99% tells them too then i will stop supporting them.
At this point it time its pointless to support any candidates. We do not know where this movement is going to go and it is getting very big and very popular very fast. Thus in 3 months, 6 months, 12 months everything that candidates are talking about now could be completely useless and probably will be.
Some people support different candidates now. Which is fine. But as a collective we support no one. No matter how many nice things they say about us or how much money they give us.
You should expect that their is a good chance the whole political landscape will be completely different by time we get within 60 days of elections.
Do not EVER support any candidate! These people have genius manipulators working for them. They will suck you in and skull fuck you. I'm telling you, literal geniuses. Political geniuses who will get your support and ruin you with it. Do not underestimate them.
I agree, the tea party started out with some ideals, got perverted and twisted so it's just as f'ed up as anything.
No reason to support any candidate. Likely OWS is a starting platform of awareness and the ideals and people we need will begin to evolve and appear.
Hitching to any status quo candidate is just like dropping anchor, we go nowhere.
Don't drop anchor! Awesome.
There are many Obama supporters out there they are not part of the 99%?? should OWS dump them too?? I see alot of Hypocracy in your statement.
No, rejecting Obama is not rejecting them. It is not black and white. Everything is a shade of gray. Happiness is realizing this and becoming a master of negotiating the gray world that is around you without getting upset.
Ok i never said this is black and white thing, you brought that up, youre thinking in terms of race so I dont know where your mind is, do you think only black people support Obama? My point is if you bash Ron Paul youre accused of pushing away his supporters, let even welcome the tea party and republicans/ conservative with open arms, but feel free to bash Obama democrats as much as you can, and not give a shit about puising that base away.
the phrase "black and white" as it is used here has nothing to do with race. It is a term that refers to "all or nothing thinking", a form of thought distortion.
Not race, just seeing things in black and white. It is an expression. I don't care about race. It is besides the point. you are the one thinking bout race obviously.
Obama is a neoliberal, Euro social democrat. that means socialism for the working class and feudalism for the upper classes. And if the upper classes screw up, then send middle class money upstream too. He has no idea what type of economic mess we are in, he's a Keynesian dingdong and he aacts like he doesn't want the job anymore because the US is absolutely a hopeless basketcase of rightwing Jesus freaks and bubbleheaded liberal democrats.
Will you talk in plain terms? What the heck is a Euro social democrat? Feudalism...really? And who isn't Keynesian? The Federal reserve has manipulated the Economy since they've been around, no matter who is in office.
I am not a Keynesian. I have no faith that the government can replace the private sector economy. Its not efficient and it provides almost no use in that capacity
OK, you may be right. But my point is, in the current setup, the Federal Reserve has the authority to manipulate the economy. So it doesn't matter if it's Obama, Bush, or Clinton. There all Keynesians...the point being that a Keynesian believes that government can control and manipulate the economy. Stop using so many big words and just speak in plain English. Everybody knows that the government is not going to replace the private sector...that would be communism. Why do you have to use all these obscure labels like "Euro social democrat"? That is a label used to talk about European politicians. Obama is not European, he's American. Also, would you proof read your posts please? Your third sentence is extremely awkward grammatically. Maybe you should stop worrying about how the complicated vocabulary you are using is and worry about how efficient your sentences are at communicating your ideas.
OK, So I'm right but you just have to copyedit anyway? That's the kind of petty baloney that will get you nowhere. The current financial situation is a creation of Keynesian economic theory go haywire. Government and Banking Industry THINK they can knobtwiddle the economy, manipulate the stock market and reboot the western economic system which is based on a PONZI scheme of infinite growth and money supply inflation. The Keynesians are basically socialists, but now like Europe, socialism is manipulated by the promise of endless wealth and redistribution of money supply-most going to the autocrats at the top. Think Berlusconi and Sarkozy-2 prime examples of autocratic corporate rule and "fake" social democracy. Euro-socialism is oligarchy rule and capital rule for the rich and socialism money redistribution for the middleclass. Its exactly what the "movement" is against-a rigged game and a system for "us" and one for "them." That's why we have complicated tax rules, excessive legal system, financially run governments. It's so complicated and only "THEY" have the power and money to make the rules of the game. And you need all that money to weasel through the whole system, which is based on a pyramid scheme mechanic of perpetual suckers,stealing and complete bullshit statistics. Its all a ponzi lie-prettied up as neoliberalism and neoconservativism. Now the whole economy and ponzi is running backwards. Everyone needs to understand that the debt and money system is now is a unstoppable RESET. The trick is to make sure all these Robber Barons don't make out like bandits with our money, railroads, schools and getting us into endless debt webs.
Keynesian dingdong. LOL
Racist
cute
Obama isn't cracking down on the movement. Right now it's Brookfield Properties, their the ones demanding the clean-up. I called the hotline in NYC to lodge a complaint. It was recorded and sent to Mayor Bloomberg's office. Some people who don't like OWS are behind this Brookfield Properties group conglomerate , would love to know who's pulling these strings against OWS. All of us are in Solidarity with OWS. We MUST stop the eviction!!! This will not stand!!!
Well, I don't think Obama supports the Tea Party. Most times the choice is the lesser of two evils. It's just reality in a world we only wish was ideal.
This is what we're taught to believe but I'm wondering if it is really the case? Please watch this video and you'll see what I mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX1N3opw5eI
Obama and any other president are a bit irrelevant at this point. Please watch for clarification: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX1N3opw5eI
Thank you for posting. I really needed this.
You're welcome, doesn't that about sum it all up?
I have really been struggling with this whole thing. Between the world going completely crazy and our government playing games with our heads. I was involved in the Occupy Boston movement from day one, but got so discouraged because of many disagreeable things that were being done. I ended up leaving the movement, but have been bothered since, with the whole divisiveness of it. Between the us and them attitude. I recently became aware that "anything that separates us cannot be truth", but it went out the window and I have become a confused mess over it. I definitely lost my balance after all these occupations started to take place. I had heard about NYC having troubles with their spot and happened upon the forum board. I started nosing around and came across your post. It peaked my curiosity and I am thankful that you posted it, because it gave me clarity and took away the anger I was feeling. I have watched all the other Zeitgeist movies and loved them. I wasn't aware of this one, although it's not about his movement. I wish all the occupations could have a solidarity movie night and everyone sit down and watch this. I really think it would make a big impact if enough people were touched by it. I guess it will reach the people it needs to and tonight that person was me. Thank you again!
I feel the same way :) And it is really easy to get disappointed and disheartened by it all. I'm trying to get the video seen by as many people as possible and keep re-posting it here and on Facebook. I think that ultimately it has a very unifying message that doesn't make one person or group out to be a villian. We need to stop fighting with each other and ask ourselves what our true values are, and take all the politics and money out of it when we answer.
You got that right. : ) After the message gets in you, anything else seems pointless and trivial. Whenever we would leave the general assemblies in Boston, we would feel so uptight and edgy from all the discontent during the meetings. I remember on our way out our last night attending I glanced over at the meditation tent and there sat this one lone guy sitting cross-legged meditating. I thought to myself, that's where its at. : ) With all the chaos going on around him, he was at peace. It was cool! The thing that I really liked about the movement was the way everyone came together as a community. The kitchen, medic, library, spirituality, and media tents, etc. The way people worked together within the community. The problem arose when we started the GA's and all the voting, contention, power struggles, underlying political differences, who's in charge of the money, media issues, etc. I really think this is where it's at, like what you are saying. Taking the politics and money out of it. I think that is where we need to get to. Are you part of the NYC movement or another one?
That is cool! Reminds me of Eckhart Tolle... ever read his books?
No, I'm not in New York. I've been trying to understand things for a long time and in my attempts to figure out the root of the problems I recently came across Peter Joseph and Jacque Fresco (The Venus Project). The things they have to say really hit me as being valid and true. And I feel like you, that a lot of things are trivial to me now and it's frustrating to see people arguing about topics that are not really the main source of the problems. I really hope more people can see Peter Joseph's "When Normality Becomes Distortion" (right here, everyone-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX1N3opw5eI) because I think it can only help this movement and create hope.
Strangely enough...I am not much of a book reader. I do read alot online, a whole lot! I looked up Eckhart Tolle though and fell in love with his quotes. I promptly posted 2 of them along with the Peter Joseph video on facebook. Well, ComplexMissy you have been very helpful tonight. I am happy I nosed around on this forum. Lets talk again please. I have thoroughly enjoyed it. Plus we might be able to bounce around ideas of what we can do to promote this. Have a good night!
You too! :)
Yes I believe we can do better. Obama has proven that he is not the change we were waiting for. That's not to say he was a bad president. But we need someone who's not going to raise one billion dollars for a political campaign, who will be more staunchly anti-war, who will be more of a leader of principles and less of a politician.
I view the presidential candidates this way: There's two major parties and voting any 3rd is a waste of my vote. The Republicans have shown they care more of obstruction and the corporate world than the people of America. The Democrats have proven spineless, inexperienced at times, and a lack of enthusiasm. But at least the Democrats tried passing a bill that regulated wall street but it was watered down by guess who. I'd rather have some who tried and failed than a person who will not even touch wall street.
BTW if Romney is the GOP nomination that's like asking the Anti-Christ to be the Pope. His entire business career was in the financial industry.
I think we need to dump the idea that voting third party is a waste of time. Remember Ross Perot? He got 18.9 percent of the vote AFTER he dropped out and came back in the race. So if he hadn't of dropped out, maybe he would have won. We say third party is a waste, but then we complain about politics as usual. If we want to to have different politics, we need to vote differently. And, even if your vote takes from the Dems, it isn't wasted because the dems might try and conform more to the third party standards who took their votes the next election.
long term that can be the goal but for an election a year away it is unrealistic.
I don't think so. It's not like we have to do anything. We just have to push the button for green party or whomever. If you don't agree with the candidate, and you truly think someone else is better, then vote for him. Look where your (and most other peoples') method of thinking that third party is a waste of a vote has gotten us.
personally I would love to vote green but if it just splits democrat votes and allows the GOP to win then no. As I see it elected anyone from the GOP is the worst thing for this country right now. But, you are right a third party is the goal that's how we separate ourselves from the Tea Party.
If the republican candidate sucks...which he probably will. But I'll give him a fair shot and at least see if he's better.
We need a business man as president. Someone who knows how to make money and does not give a shit what the lobiests say. Politicians for president does not work. All they care about is the next election. And by the way didn't Obama give the last stimulis package to the banks to help them and put no rules on how it was spent? What benifited you more? Obama's stimulis or Bush's?
Technically the Bush stimulus did more but not because it was Bush or because how it was implement but rather for the fact it was first. Economics says that each stimulus after the first has less an affect than the preceding one.
That is a standard view. You don't need it to make your own decisions.