Forum Post: Drugs, Alcohol and Social Problems
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 21, 2011, 4:30 a.m. EST by badconduct
(550)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Cheers from another Occupy location.
I am seeing a trend, specifically at night. The protest during the day attracts hard working, dedicated individuals. At night, the scene depicts your average, uncontrolled parking lot party. I am certainly not against the discussion and socializing, but there is a growing trend of drug abuse and self destructive activity that takes place in these camps. They are particularly attractive to people who are down on hard luck and need a place to be.
It's easy to just ignore them, or ask the homeless or drug addicted trouble makers to leave. That's probably the clearest and most controllable solution.
But than.. what makes Occupy any different from our current Government, if we just reject people with immediate psychological or physical addiction problems?
Our site was looking for a variety of "jobs", such as media, medic, etc etc.
I recommended drug and alcohol counselling group.
I need ideas. There can't just be people left behind, that would make this movement no better than the system we stand up against.
personal website span while I'm here: www.mowatsparty.ca
Right. Begin our own government that provides services to the masses in need. Now you guys are thinking. Be the solution. Create jobs. Brilliant!
Make sure work in a generous pension.
I support this. We should take care of each other. We should make it clear that it's not really the place for wild parties, and try to keep the atmosphere friendly, but we can't do that by chasing people away (except people there only to cause trouble).
If I come up with concrete ideas, I'll send them along. Have you posted this on location-specific occupy sites (Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal in Canada for example)? I'll personally be in Toronto in a week, and I'll be sure to bring it up if I see the problem on the ground. All the better if good ideas have emerged before then. There should definitely be work groups formed to deal with this issue.
there ought to be an a.a. & n.a. group started. i offered my services in an email to the admin of this site weeks ago and got no response. i'd be more than happy to help in this regard.
jobs have little to do with being social
people are mostly busy working
of course interaction is needed for coordination
but those are mostly rules and schedules to be followed
Interesting panel discussion on drug abuse, etc:
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/03/russell-brand/
drugs are the only thing that are keeping some of these people from hanging themselves, removing their "drug problem" is not going to solve anything, fixing the underlying issues first that are causing them to do drugs in the first place.. thats what needs to be done
I disagree, unfortunately. In the last 10 years, drug use has been increasing, 400% increase in the abuse of legal drugs. The reason these people aren't hanging themselves when they take drugs is because they are addicted, and neither my nor your healthcare system treats it as an illness. Without the drug, their brain has forgotten how to function and the only treatment is a controllable, reduce and regulated drug treatment program.
Unfortunately, so many people defend drug use because using drugs is all they know. The media pushes drugs, parties and drinking when you turn 18, and most people never get past that stage any longer.
Drug use in the west, both medical and illegal, is significantly higher than any other area in the world. 40% of the cocaine fuels 5% of the population. Cocaine use goes down, while chemical drug use goes up. We also have much higher depression, and much higher rates of suicide. The pharmaceutical industry is the most profitable industry in America, and the biggest Lobbyist.
I think originally in the 60's, when drugs were being experimented with, the west had certainly discovered a new experience. But now it's just a cancer. People try to justify drugs with their historic use, but a lot of that use was associated with war and violence.
I think today, drugs are an open wound in the West. It's the only product with a 90% customer return rate. Columbia and Al Qaeda have clear drug ties and I am confident they are supplying drugs to west nations and using the cash to get weapons in Africa.
This is a serious issue, it really needs to be looked into further.
hey, badconduct. wanted to express gratitude for your taking the time to say these things.
http://www.mowatsparty.ca/?p=435
ibogaine is great at treating addiction.
Look it up.
psychological, alcohol and drug problems are linked to poverty. That's why you see them at the occupations. Deal with it however you wish- but my advice would be to include these people; as part of the point of occupying is to show the world those who usually suffer in silence
Facts: Illegal (and legal) drug use is actually higher in 1st world countries. The middle class is actually the most affected by cocaine. 40% of the cocaine in the world is shipped to North America, which represent 5% of the world population. read some of my blogs, mowatsparty.ca I go in depth on illegal and legal drugs.
I've been reading into the drug culture of the West. I am starting to see a trend. The United States is a huge drug abuser, both of illicit and Over the Counter drugs. Statistically, the West is general abuses drugs more than the East.
I'm trying to map the Billboard 100 for the last 30 or so years, and see if there is a notable increase in drug/alcohol references recently in the U.S. It appears to be that way. I think the last decade has a sort of drug/drinking/partying counter culture that is much associated with this movement.
A survey of different countries showed in the US, 16.3% had used cocaine by age 21. The next down is Germany, at 6.1%. That's a 10 percent leap. Most African nations were unmeasurable because of the low numbers who have.
As much as people want to legalize drugs and find a use for them, this ideology does not ring through other nations. The US spends a fortune on controlling drugs, but has a huge problem with it. It makes me wonder how much of the economy is integrated into the drug trade. Especially considering the CIA drug conspiracies, and the high association with strong economies.
http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0050141
Yea, if you contacted your nearest AA and NA groups you could probably get someone down there to talk to people, but also, people have to want to recover.
If these people are seeing the camp as just another place to hang out & get high, treatment interventions are not going to work. Then, the camp will have to do decide whether or not to allow those people to remain and/or how to handle their presence there.
If we start going to AA and NA, we are basically saying "We can't deal with our problems" and tossing them back into the system that put them down in the first place, you know?
AA and NA aren't really "the system"
They are independent and self-supporting. Their principles are actually very much like some of what OWS seems to be about. I think OWS could learn a few things actually about group structure and getting things done with demcratically elected leaders who are nothing "but trusted servants, they do not govern".
They are both religious though, thus, the system.
They are the 99%, as are we. But they cannot contribute very well to the dialog while stoned/drunk......and give the powers that be an excuse to tear us down. Having drunk/stoned people at an occupy protest is causing many people to feel unsafe. Is anyone's right to use alcohol/drugs more important than having a safe space for the protest? Is the movement about helping drug and alcohol troubled people, or about taking some power back?
I am in no way saying the addicts and alcoholics should not be helped, I just question whether it is useful or appropriate for OWS to try and do it.
I agree. Many of them are just tough talking, and more interested in how everyone perceives them than actually contributing anything. It does create an unsafe place, especially when they are looking for trouble (negative attention).
And this is the very same concern I have had at OccupyLA, that it really provides a viable reason (no matter how much I disagree with it), to shut down any occupation - that frankly, the vast majority of the public will surely support. Plus, I don't think that individuals' rights should include infringing on other people's safety or the ability of those struggling to remain sober from participating, nor should they supersede our collective responsibility to protect the movement.
To be clear, I have fought hard against the drug war and will continue to do so as long as that horribly oppressive practice remains, but even the best organizations fighting this would NEVER allow drug use at any one of their events/efforts. Likewise, the civil rights movement always has been VERY disciplined and would never allow any individual to endanger the movement's vital mission or its members!
Lastly, as predictable as could possibly be, the media sucks this "drug-induced hippies" crap up as often as they can and it certainly diminishes any chance that our message would reach anybody. Sure, the media will always be digging for crap to broadcast instead of any meaningful message and police will always be looking for an excuse to raid, but why hand them these things on a silver platter?!?
Too much money is made on both sides of both wars. The illegal drug war, and the legal drug lobbying.
Give this a read, not the best organized but there is a lot of information out there. http://www.mowatsparty.ca/?p=435
There's a lot more information available on drug use, drug connections with Al Qaeda, CIA cover ups (Contra). It's not conspiracy, I think drug use in the west is an open wound and foreign interests are starting to take advantage of it. Government likes spending money on it, and they like making money on the enforcement.
Personally, I feel the solution to fix a system you dislike is to participate. If you dedicate yourself to a cause and put in your time and energy into a company, than you get up to a position of power.
I stopped going to the occupy movement here. I posted an article on their website, and was basically shunned. No one was interested in having drug policy or drug use criticized.
http://www.themultitude.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=263
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they are amongst the most vulnerable of the 99%
Maybe they were there first, and now you're occupying their space?
In some cases, that's true.
We need to get homeless advocacy and support groups involved. Some of them offer help for the psychologically handicapped as well as the addicts. I have a list of sources around here somewhere... A google search might do the trick.
I might make drug and alcohol awareness fliers and pass them out.
I won't focus on the negative effects of use, but rather on the negative effects it can have on your peers. Asking for contributions from those groups is a good idea.
That might be a good idea.