Forum Post: Don't contribute to the broken system. NEVER convict anyone when on jury "DUTY"
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 18, 2011, 1:30 a.m. EST by norcal45gpw
(10)
from Stockton, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The police are able to pepper spray, beat, shoot and jail anyone at anytime they want without any consequences. They try to prosecute the little guy for demanding a better world for their children but would never go after a banker or politician or even another cop. I say it is time to stop convicting ANYONE when you are a juror. Take the police, the courts and the entire judicial system to its knees within days.
This kid actually has a point. I know it may be a bit extreme. However, you must think why the person is getting convicted. He probably grew up in a poverty stricken area. never got the education he humanly deserves. Had to do something bad to get money. The world beat him down and he said fuck all of you dicks for being so selfish and never helping me. I know he should of never let that consume him. However, this is the world we live in.. What will you do about it?
How about doing something old-fashioned, like holding people responsible for their actions rather than making excuses for them. Most of the crime committed in poor neighborhoods is against OTHER poor people, or against small businesses that are trying to scrape by in a difficult setting - let's ask them how we should treat the criminals in their midst, before we start turning them loose to commit the same crimes all over again. jeez, have a clue, will you?
I Understand that. However, you just told yourself the answer. The reason why people are put in situations like this are to fend for there right to live. No one wants a uneducated man working for them. They get rejected and decided to steal and rob people. Start at the source of the issue. So how about we hold the people responsible for the cause of that then. Why don't we arrest the people that were to selfish to clean up the neighborhoods of poverty stricken people. Why dont we arrest the people who wouldnt educate them. WHY dont we arrest the people who wouldnt give them food. We dont cause it wont solve a damn thing.
Since out-of-wedlock births have been shown to have a direct connection to poverty, are you prepared to arrest the teenager girl who gets pregnant, or the guy who gets his girlfriend pregnant and then walks away and leaves her to quit school and raise the kid herself? It's a scary thing to talk about criminalizing the causes of poverty as it takes you down paths that get very unsettling very quickly. And if you are going to make selfishness a crime, you think prisons are overcrowded now? We'd all deserve jail time sooner or later.
Your solution is not a solution, it's just an attention-getting device that would make the situation worse, not better. Yes, let's address the issues that lead to poverty. But that should not include turning loose the people who have made those neighborhoods even worse. If you lived next door to the drug-addicted mugger, would you be glad he was being released by a "compassionate" jury? I wouldn't. I would ask the jury to have some compassion on me and the rest of the neighborhood, and hold the guy responsible for his actions.
Btw I do not believe in prisons. They are not even needed. Trust me when I say this... WE DO NOT NEED PRISONS. We need educated humans on a global scale. Humans that are fed on a daily basis who have all the things they need. THat are educated.
I SAID IT WONT WORK ARRESTING THEM. I swear people never think about anything anymore. I used to be a drug addict and I know why drug addicts are drug addicts... I have been awake for about 3 months sober for about 3 years. I am not saying turn them loose. How about we educate people in jail. How about we try something different because our entire world has failed since the dawn of time. Equality, I do ask that people not be fooled. You are no better then anyone and you are no less.
We dont cause it wont solve a damn thing.
Sorry, we have too many dead people on the street to play this game. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-08-22/news/chi-boy-14-killed-in-west-side-shooting-20110821_1_austin-neighborhood-street-gang-gang-member http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/08/boy-14-among-20-shot-on-v_n_1001796.html
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-10-28/news/chi-teenager-shot-in-head-on-southwest-side-20111028_1_teenager-shot-chicago-lawn-neighborhood-critical-condition
NO. What will YOU do about it?
That will not solve the problem. Jails have been around for a long time and people still commit the murders. We need to figure out the source of the problem.
We already know the source of the problem.
Society.
You are going to have to dig deeper than that. :/
that is about as deep as it gets. Since the dawn of time uneducated people created this society, shaped as the please. To create a society driven by money.
No, it can get a lot deeper.
You talking about like how we get disappointed then angry and lash out on anger. Or how we feel insecure and use money to make us feel better because we cant love ourselves. You are quick to tell me no but I can not read your mind. So please help me! not taking jabs at you. It is hard to detect tone over the internet.
Well do you care to explain?
It is neither. I didn't feel as if you were taking jabs at me. I may be sounding short as I am doing two things at once. :D
It is Poverty but it isn't an excuse. There is a correlation between poverty and crime. We have areas where to be a young male is a death sentence. You may as well have "shoot me" tattooed on your forehead. Children are shot through drive-by's. People are shot because of a mistaken identity. Older kids are beaten and sometimes forced to commit crimes that they wouldn't ordinarily commit by older gang-bangers. 16,000 guns are "missing" from gun manufacturers like here: http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/09/04-2
The family members do not want these people back on the street. Hell, they are often afraid to come forward because the entire area is filled with gangbangers.
People have to decide what role prisons are to play. Simply removed from society or rehabilitative? Not some least that can be done kind of rehabilitative crap either.
Then, when and if they are released, you have to decide if you are really going to allow them back into your community. If you choose not to, which is the American way, then in order for many of them to exist they commit more crimes.
The flip side of this is that we have many that have been wrongly convicted. For 40 years we have known that eye witness testimony cannot be trusted and yet, we still have this used.
And if I decide to use my second amendment right and blow away some protester trespassing on my property you will find me not guilty as well?
Bullshit. You have a choice. Actions have consequences.
Fix society fix the problem.
Your living in fantasy if you still think you have choices in America
Really , cause I choose to live here in America. I chose to enlist. I chose my current job. I chose my house. I choose not to walk into a crowded building with an AK. I choose not to insult your intelligence. So yeah , pretty sure I still have choice and alot of em.
http://truthinjustice.org/p-pmisconduct.htm
Jury trial is a right. I expect you, as a peer, to learn how this system works and it's inherent problems so that you are educated enough to be my peer. I do the same for you.
I fully understand how the system was intended to work in an honest system. What I am saying is since GOV. is now so corrupt it is time to fight back. Why should a cop, district attorney, politician, CEO Etc. be able to do whatever the hell THEY want but the second WE stay too late at a park and protest THEIR corruption WE get pepper sprayed, arrested, beat and jailed. By the way, I will convict THEM just not US...NEVER EVER for the rest of my life. Understand?
Then you probably won't wind up on a jury. That would be a shame. Do you understand?
Oh I will be on jury (and have). My reply is "yes I can be impartial and listen to the evidence before making my decision" but will NEVER convict a common citizen....just won't tell them that.
So you would let a murdering rapist go free to prove a point?
Yet another ridiculous statement that proves that Occupy does not represent the true 99% since most people would find this idea dangerous and borderline insane.
Yes I would because I know how dishonest police, D.A.'s and judges can be. Police lie, cover up their own mistakes, have other cops lie for them.
That is fine, just don't go around saying you represent the 99%. There is no doubt in my mind that the vast majority of the people in prison in the US deserve to be removed from society. Many more should probably join them. Our system is not perfect, I realize that, but no system is.
More proof that norcal45gpw clings to his fears and suspicions sans any objective evidence.
This post is so completely stupid and uninformed it's hard to even begin.
From http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017083878_spokane24m.html , "By the time a federal jury convicted Thompson last month, many in Spokane had lost faith in the city's ability to police its police. Thompson, convicted of using excessive force and lying to investigators, awaits sentencing in January. The city's mayor was voted out, and top police brass retired under a cloud. At least one other officer is under federal investigation for allegedly obstructing Thompson's prosecution. In Seattle, the Justice Department found last week that officers routinely use excessive force, and it is pursuing a criminal investigation of the officer who shot woodcarver John T. Williams in 2010. After initially standing with his police chief when the findings were issued, Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn this week ordered the Police Department to begin carrying out the reforms urged by the Justice Department. In Spokane, federal prosecutors began with a criminal investigation and only this year began a systemic review."
Notice it was the "evil" federal authorities that prosecuted this case. Had the jury followed the poster's advice, they would have let the police officer off. I'm guessing norcal45gpw would say "No, this conviction was righteous, and the jury was right in it's findings." Of course, all this means is that we should convict those that norcal45gpw thinks we should convict and release those he thinks we shouldn't.
Sheer unthinking stupidity... just what I've come to expect from this poster.
Yeah. I'm sure O.J. was happy with that attitude.
People do not convict if it is not the right thing to do, convict if it is the right thing to do.
Don't let the guilty go because you are mad at the system.
Work to demand change in the system instead.
Jury nullification is predicated on participation in the electoral system. Jury pools are selected from voter registrations.
Many OWS people seem to hate American democracy and voting.
In your world, police serve no purpose...I choose the current system.
We need a better way to fight than this. We need a smart revolution. All I see here is a lot of dumb ideas by mad and frustrated people. We hurt ourselves more than the enemy with this kind of non-sense.
FIGHT THE CAUSE - NOT THE SYMPTOM Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( www.revolution2.osixs.org )
NEVER is too big of a word. JURY NULLIFICATION is more to the point. http://fija.org/2011/12/21/jurors-need-to-know-that-they-can-say-no/
ROGUE GRAND JURIES are pretty cool, too. http://fija.org/2011/11/05/let-a-thousand-rogue-grand-juries-bloom/
Incidentally, if you ever want to get out of jury duty, tell the court you believe in jury nullification. You'll be gone before you finish the sentence.
Here is the truth: You get a job just to support yourself and your family. The GOV. takes what it wants from your pay (as tax) to support this crooked system and pays the police to pepper spray, beat, shoot and jail YOU for speaking out against it. It's like the mafia taking "protection money" from the store owner...but don't you DARE try to resist in any way. You can crush 1/3 of Government (the judicial branch) without ever having to protest in public.....It only takes ONE juror to say "not guilty".
"Fully Informed Jury Association" http://fija.org/
I do not rely on the GOV. for anything including protecting me or my family.
LOL ! More absurdity from an idiot that appears incapable of thought. "I do not rely on the GOV for anything.." is so wrong on its face that it's not even worth debating.
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Yeah, those are just the people we need on the streets. Those are just the people OWS wants on the streets and Democrats want voting.
When your family member is gang raped and murdered we will be sure not to convict them just for you.