Forum Post: Do You Really Want To Help This Country?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 9, 2011, 9:45 p.m. EST by SmallBizGuy
(378)
from Savannah, GA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Why is everyone (protesters) waiting around for me (small business person) to take all the risks and create all of the jobs? Why don't you (protesters) have a responsibility to risk your family finances and create jobs? If you did, then we wouldn't be in this economic mess. I have done my part (and more) to help this country. I shouldn't have to borrow money from the banks; However, I did....because the US government took $135,256 tax dollars from me in 2010. I could have used that money to expand my small manufacturing business. Instead, I had to go borrow the money from a bank ($65,000 @ 6.8% interest). What are you (protesters) going to do to hire people? When are you (protesters) going to start paying taxes? Damn-it....This country needs you (protesters) to go out and create jobs...not protest.
//Why don't you (protesters) have a responsibility to risk your family finances and create jobs?//
Because our families are trying to retire before age 85 and salvage what little they have left in retirement savings?
Your response is too emotional (understandably); However, the protesters seem to be younger than 40 (maybe 30). They have plenty of time to save for retirement. They need to start taking risks, creating products (or services), hiring good people, and contribute to US economy. This is the only solution that will work.
When I was younger (I am currently 50), I took a risk on a business....I failed, and went bankrupt. I didn't give up. I tried again. I am now wealthy (not Warren Buffet wealthy). The point is....all Americans have a "responsibility" to pursue wealth. The pursuit of wealth does not have to be driven by greed. It can be driven by the desire to help others. Wealth is not a big house and a yacht, it is the creation of "value". Artists create wealth (they rarely have a yacht).
I hope that your family can retire before 85. Good Luck!
Dude, are you implying we become a nation of producers? There is no way that can work. It is laughable that you imply that we all need to be business owners. So teachers should just quit and open a bagel shop? Me, and retirement planner should quit my JOB and open an organic farm? I am not sure I follow your logic.
Thats the spirit and hope you continue like that! Just a little advice (carefull with the risks you take) My uncle was a fairly wealthy man with a company for 38 years and gave work to some 30 guys and everything looked good untill he was 56. Argentina went backrupt, his company too and he lost everything including his energy. He was sad for almost 5 years and then started a little bussiness at the age of 61 in Spain. He smiles again, but isn´t very positive about Argentina (same happened there like USA now, too much debt and one day people just don´t get the money from their banks) and he was angry with the 1%. Corruptos ladrones he called them. But in the meantime I hope you enjoy as long as it lasts. (I have a Master in Science of economics 2000 from a good university and believe the masterplan is more or less on track for the world, but not looking good for the middle and lower class in the first world.)
I admire your uncle for his tenacity. The 1% has some good, and some bad people in it. It's hard to tell the difference sometimes (actually most of the time). The good 1% may have to end up as "collateral damage" in this fight. I hate that for them. They won't have deserved it; However, collateral damage is a reality of war (hopefully a cold war).
The question is....can we afford this collateral damage? Everyone is economically connected to one another. If we "take down" all of the 1%, we could be inflicting great harm on the 99%. Careful planning will be required. I don't have a good solution at this time.
FYI....I almost got a degree in economics from GSU in Atlanta. I had only 2 statistics classes left. I failed them both. Summer came.....I left....I never went back. I admire your Masters in Science of economics. I couldn't cut it.
good
I've been to several protests and there were plenty of very old people. I'm a business owner my self and, as you know, you make friends with the other business owners you do business with. Everyone is struggling and we are all trying to keep afloat what we've work hard to build. The free market is supposed to be a natural system where you don't have to tell people to take a risk; the system would make it worth it. Something needs to change
Risk, when evaluated properly, becomes more of a "gauge on expected return", than it is a "stress factor". You seem to be stressed. I am sorry to here that. I hope that you can "keep afloat" what you have worked hard to build. My point (in my original post) is.....we need more people like you.
Thanks. And yes I am stressed but at the same time grateful for this movement. What I took issue with was that it seems you were accusing the protesters of "waiting around" and being irresponsible. They are participating in their democracy, working very hard to create a fair environment for everyone. What they are doing is not simple and, like I said, it may very well be a result of a natural system. There are plenty of people like you an me trying to create jobs and yes, we could use more, but right now we need these people taking on all the other work that also needs to be done. They deserve our respect and support.
Thank you both for trying to create jobs!
more jobs =more people paying taxes and buying stuff=me making more money....reaganomics....litte hard to swallow, but sooo true
omg.....im a business owner and this statement is just silly....we dont need banks to loan us money to expand......we need work to expand....more jobs, more work, more hiring.....its not rocket science
You are so right! Obama thinks that loosening the credit market will help the economy......not if the small biz guy doesn't want (or need) the money. I only expand my business due to more demand for my products.
My business was featured in a news article the other day. I had 10 bankers call me wanting to loan me money. I told them that I would be glad to borrow some money if they could....first....send me more customers. Most of these smart bankers understood what I was telling them. Why doesn't Obama?
Put more money (through lower taxes) in the hands of the middle class. I will be forced to expand my business (thus hire more people) due to an increase in the demand for my products. Until then, the bankers can keep their money.
right on the money...pardon the pun
Greetings Folks, Please read 'The Way Forward' by the New America Foundation. It is the answer to our world's problems. There is an article about it in the New York Times called 'This Time It's Different.' It's a great article. These people are on your side, and they've got clout, intellectual and otherwise. I wish you well... John O'Grady ivanogre@gmail.com
What some in OWS don't understand is that small businesses are not the problem, they are the solution. The corporations are the entities who have used massive campaign contributions, lobbyists, and lawyers to slam the small businesses into the ground in an attempt to eliminate competition.
We want and need small businesses to come up with innovative solutions to help clean up pollution, develop methods of feeding people locally (e.g., aquaponics http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qZPwBPAqks), develop alternative energies, etcetera.
Do not make the mistake of demonizing small business and the free market. In order for small businesses to thrive, they can't be burdened with a telephone book full of regulations that requires a cadre of expensive lawyers to navigate, and they also shouldn't be forced to provide healthcare when the big guys (McDonald's et al) get a pass.
John D. Rockefeller said, "Competition is a sin". That speaks volumes about his view on small businesses - who are as a group more responsive, more innovative, and create more jobs for OWS and for the middle class than any public or corporate sector.
Stop demonizing small businesses!!! This is true capitalism, this is where we will have true free trade. I want to start my own organic farm and sell produce to my neighbors, but in order to do that, what hoops would I have to jump through? Daunting and damn near impossible.
"Daunting".....Yes. "Damn near impossible".....no way. Don't let the prospect of failure stop you from moving forward. Organic local farms are starting to pop-up in a lot of cities across America. Many of them are thriving. I, for one, have a soft spot for local farmers; However, I don't give them my business out of charity. I buy from them because they have a better product offering than the local chain store. Go For It!
Mass production, demands mass consumption, but people can’t afford to consume if the wealth an economy generates is concentrated at the top. In consequence, as in a poker game, where the chips are concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, the other people can stay in the game only by borrowing. When their credit runs out, the game stops.
Perfect analogy.
One of the points that I am trying to make with my original post is......Get Out of THE GAME. Go start another game that is not rigged against you. The current "Maters of the Game" will try to stop you. They know that if you leave the table, they will not have anyone to screw over. "F" them!
The only reason that they own most of the money, is because we continue to want it. Quit wanting their money. Remember the 1% owns most of the money; However, the 99% own most of the wealth.
When the 99% go start their own game, the 1% is left holding a worthless hand.
I have often thought about what you suggest, because it is a viable solution; however for that to take place would require a revolution. If we need a revolution, I would recommend using the guide lines at this site: http://www.osixs.org/Rev2_menu_commonsense.aspx
“The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history - whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by the small elite."
Jefferson was right.
Don't despair! The first part of a revolution is recognizing the problem. We are in the first stage of that now. Out of crisis come clarity. Peaceful action will also be required. I am part of the 1% (maybe the 2%), but my point is....not everyone in the 1% is bad. Choose your friends carefully.
People in this country are tired of the abuses of our politicians, the excessive taxes and the greed of corporations. We are tired of unrelated riders being attached to bills. We are tired of corporations being allowed to be treated as people - funding their candidates and their goals without limit.
Wake up, OP.
The crooks on Wall Street whose asses we have come for wrecked the economy that your small business depends on.
We're doing this for you.
really? dude, if you paid $135,256 in taxes, you MADE $500 at least. And if your goal is to grow your business, stop making excuses and do it. The more you make, the more the government makes, the more secure our union. Do you honestly believe these ppl would rather sit in a park than make $500k? BTW, I am not sure who buys your goods or services, but without your customers, you would have NOTHING! Post your business name so we can boycott that too. Do you not know you are MAJORLY outnumbered! Don't be a coward and sit behind your computer. Post your company...see how bad it could get...and realize you are the 99 percent too! Forget about yourself for a moment and consider the greater good.
So....let me understand your wisdom. I should take a route that causes my business harm, thus causing my employees harm, thus causing my country harm, thus causing my family and other American families harm. No Thanks.
And yes, I do believe that some (not all) would prefer to sit in a park than DO WHAT IT TAKES to make $500K a year. If you think that the money comes from winning the lottery every year, then you are a fool ( I hope that you are not a fool).
I am thankful everyday for my customers. And, they are thankful for me. We are equals. They give me what I want, desire and need, and I give them what they want, desire and need. That is another one of my points......capitalism (though not perfect) is a great equalizer.
Don't be reductive. Capitalism ONLY works with a large consumer base, and a small producer base (competition and monopolies will swallow the small and the weak). By it's very definition there is no way EVERYONE can create a job. HOWEVER, Capitalism is only FAIR when the producers allow their workers/customers to attain a livable wage with good working conditions and standards.
I have no desire to make $500k/year. I can support myself well with $80k. However, if through my own efforts, I should attain $750k/yr, it would be through my many clients--and not b/c I have something special power that only the upper crest have. It is because my clients seek my advice on their money management (I am a money manager), and I provide it without thought of commissions (unlike some other WS persons). Because I believe that I must be a man of value, not of wealth, a remark made by Ben Franklin years ago.
Listen, I would love to learn how you attained your success. And as you look back on your life, I am sure you will make tons of "I" statements, as if you are in perfect control of your destiny. But, were it not for the idea of the "American Dream", chaos would ensue. If you absolutely believe a peaceful, vibrant, prosperous society for EVERYONE contributed nothing to your wealth and fortune (being that you are from Savannah, I assume a great deal of slave labor went into your very existence in modern society), then this OWS is a big waste of time. If you are paying your workers a living wage, then thank you, and I apologize. However, if you just posted to complain that you allowed your country to continue to be a model of democracy and CAPITALISM around the globe by paying your taxes, then hire an better CPA, b/c there is always a loophole.
The problem,as I see it, is all of the "grand philosophy" about capitalism (good and bad), and not enough practical, applicable solutions to our CURRENT situation. We can sit in front of our computers all day long and debate the past, and how we got into the current mess, or we can start to take the first steps in solving the our problems.
I am not suggesting that everyone will have the skill, talent, financial resources, or the nerves to risk a lifetime of savings, to start a business; However, I will bet a lot of money that there is a lot of untapped (unrealized) talent in the OWS crowd. Don't underestimate them (and I hope that they don't underestimate themselves).
I would like to see the OWS group hold a "round table" meeting on how they might start a business.....hey.....the OWS Group, LLC would be a good name. You could help them with the financial planning process. I would be glad to assist in the product (or service) development process.
Slave labor in the south? It's true, and discussing it is educational....even warranted, but it is, currently, a waste of precious time (people need jobs now). Businesses create jobs.
This all may be just another "greedy" plan of mine to help people make a good living so that I will have a larger customer base for my business to make obscene profits. I am just a damn Capitalist Pig with no heart.
Ha! I remember in college how my fellow mates and I WISHED that the youth had more involvement in the process; thus, the current OWS really gives me great pride. I hope that this dialogue has open your eyes as well. And while I may not change your ideology, I hope at least you have given careful thought to what the future of this nation should look like.
I am a veteran, a fiscal conservative, an atheist, and 100% American. If this country is nothing more than an economy, then I have served for nothing. I always considered America the land where even the poorest of peasants can have a chance for social mobility. We are trying to preserve that dream for my great grandkids, so that a $50k/salary doesn't equate to poverty. You need good employees, we need good products. I just wish my brothers in arms didn't die solely because you can make a profit, but so we can preserve our union and be an example of democracy (and not a democracy for sale) around the globe.
I was being sarcastic (I hope that you realize this). My point was.....don't depend on the goodness of others.....become the one that dispenses the "good". Even a heartless "Capitalist Pig" does "good" whether he likes it or not.
Profits are not evil. Profits are what allows a business to pay more to their workers. Without profits, the workers have no chance of increasing their wages. Without profits, companies would not have the financial reserves to stay in business during a recession (an keep the workers). Without profits, there would be no savings for retirement (saving are an individuals profits).
PS....thank you for your service to this great country.
Ave salary in 1980 $48000 Ave salary in 2010 $50000
Cmon guy. This is the SOLE reason for unrest. The richer get richer, the poor get slaughtered. We are not saying it doesn't work, we are saying it hasn't worked.
Ouch! That doesn't even keep up with inflation.
The rich get richer due to numerous factors that are not always evil or bad. A smart business person who goes from poor (usually due to being young and broke...as most of us start out), to being rich, will naturally keep getting richer due to his good business sense. That is difficult to curtail, and not exactly helpful to the poor to do so. He (or she) will pay a lifetime of income taxes, which is helpful only if the government uses the money wisely (which they currently don't).
Some of the rich got that way by inheriting money (usually from the person I mentioned above). They are more likely to spend the money (they are not necessarily good business or financial individuals, just damn financially lucky), and not be rich for long. That is a fair way of spreading the wealth if you believe in low inheritance taxes (I don't).
It is my opinion that income is income, and should be taxed as such. The republican argument that the money has already been taxed.....is correct.....but....all money has already been taxed. It's a dumb argument.
Thus.......we should not over tax the business people, but raise the inheritance tax to a normal "income" (which it is) tax. Raising taxes will have a negative effect on the current economy. Raising taxes during a good economy will do less damage. Keep taxes low at the moment; However, raise them when the economy (and political situation) improves.
But, remember......your current income will not increase due to raising taxes on the rich. No one will be cutting you a check from the government. All you can hope for is a decrease in the taxes you currently have to pay out of your current income. And believe me.....the middle class pays an ass-load of hidden taxes.
I was reading from Paul Kruger, an amazing economist who's political affiliations I have no clue on, said it best. When private sector has choked off the cash supply in Equipment, People, and Major Purchases, AND the government chokes the supply of Equipment, People, and Major Purchases, a double dip will occur. Business cannot argue raising taxes will not improve the economic situation when they have had 11 years to prove otherwise.
I was an Economics major at Georgia State University in Atlanta (no degree....I couldn't pass my statistics classes). My reason for choosing Economics was that no economist could ever be wrong.......or.....right. As a young smart-ass student....that was very appealing to me (LOL).
Paul is neither wrong....nor....right.
Before we can even talk about job creation, there is a glaring wrench in the works called "Parasitic and Bloated Multinationals Flooding US with Slave Labor goods From Abroad".
There is no demand in this country. I had an argument in the Hyundai with my parents about why they bought their towels from "Rape is A-Okay!" Pakistan, why they bought new blankets made in China and why they went into a fashion mall full of chains that manufactured in China, Bangladesh, Vietnam, etc. while they themselves were struggling in a climate of entire US industries being swatted like flies by the same people they were buying from. Do you know what my mom said? "Because US goods are 400% more expensive than something made with slave labor." Do they not even know where they live? Is a few bucks worth the livelihoods and rights of (at the very least) the people in this country who are now displaced, including the members of her family? I know I've had my "I Hate Humans!" moments, but she just made me look like freaking Martin Luther King with that comment.
I know these types. I begged them for months in Cali to get a water filter instead of drinking bottled water like idiots. They only switched to a water filter when they moved to Florida, where bottled water is more expensive. Didn't even grumble that much about having to buy water filters like they did in Cali, they just did it once it became the cheaper option.
I think I have made my point with the example of my parents. While your goals are noble, you don't fix a hole in a bucket by pouring in more water - you fix the hold by fixing the hole. Then you pour in water.
Being against tariffs, trust-busting and cracking down on Wall Street in this climate of REALITY isn't "Stone Age Barbarism". Suggesting that maybe we should pull out of our failed and mostly theoretical experiment called "free" trade or at the very least trade with countries that are actually free and fair isn't "inciting a trade war" and it isn't "going five steps backwards". Are you kidding me?!? Those other mercantilists (such as China) have high tariffs against us and it's brought them nothing but wealth - OUR WEALTH.
It's not even those other countries' fault in the long run - it's our own multinationals. Plus - we let them do this to us. We can stop this by buying domestic and even boycotting right to work states as well as slave-laborers until they shape up. Protectionism is good for those other countries too - it reduces the demand for slave labor all across the board. And in the very least - we can stop fu**ing over Mexico and making the displaced locals come here where they take all our benefits without paying their immigrant dues and taxes.
What we NEED to do is to end our so-called "free" trade. We NEED to fix the hole. And FAST.
We need protectionism that actually brings the jobs back home, rather than the kind of protectionism that lets our own multinationals and countries like China screw us over while having their own behinds covered.
Also - Shame on the protesters here who did not recognize that the problem was so-called "free" trade, where we import from countries that spit on liberty and justice while keeping us out of their markets.
Hey. I may not agree with everything you wrote......but....a least you are passionate about what you believe in. I admire that in people.
Keep educating your parents. Bottled water is very inefficient. Progress will be made....one step at a time.
Tell me what you don't agree with so we can have a discussion. Is it because you think Obama's new free trade agreements will actually bring sufficient enough exports without negating it with industry crushing imports? Is it because you think that protectionism will only work for "Big Subsidized Business" and screw the small business out of international markets, when the "international markets" have been pushing us out since Day 1? Is it because you abhor the thought of paying $10 for a hamburger?
Please enlighten me. I am trying to understand and maybe learn from the Tea Partiers, but unfortunately, their own vow of secrecy is preventing me from doing so.
If you are not Tea Party then I apologize for calling you so.
Call me "protesting while running my shop". And view the other side: While the banks and the financial transactions on the stock market they facilitate aren't - or hardly - taxed, while their profits went to the shareholders, while your customers are gettign evicted by the banks, the government sends incredible amounts of money to the banks, to big corporations, that are outsourcing our employment, while the government are taxing you and me, the small business owners, to come up with all the money, the economy and infrastructure are down and sold of to china. Big Buck is not my ally. These people protesting are rooting for you and for me, and for our kids and I for one fully support them! Obama stands for tax breaks for small business, so how come are you on the side of the big money? You want friends up there? They don't have any friends, they are poor that way. So many people worked all their lives and paid pension money, now thrown to the swine by banks. Pensioners, our parents, who fought wars for our freedom, thrown onto the streets? Shame on you! We have to honour your parents.
Jobs are becoming obsolete!
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wired-success/201109/are-jobs-we-know-them-becoming-obsolete
Sanity is becoming obsolete.
SmallBizGuy, Part of the problem is that corporations have placed protective legislation in place to help stifle small business from even starting up. Did you read the article where two girls had their street-side lemonade stand shut down for failing to have the correct permits?
They've made things so complicated with patent law battles... so risky with things like the threat of losing net neutrality... that many people are even more hesitant to join the fray.
Finally, people just don't know HOW to be entrepreneurs. Personally, I think Obama's job package should be educational programs/initiatives to get people to start their own businesses... particularly small "Maker" level manufacturing.
Did I read it? I live 20 minutes from the girl's lemonade stand (Savannah, GA). What a bunch of jerks for shutting that down.
Hey, I know it is tough. I couldn't agree with you more; However, the big corporations can kiss-my-ass if they think that they will stop me.
You focus too much on job creation without any understanding of a sustainable economy. It's not your fault, these are the values that you were indoctrinated with as an American.
Job creation helps create a "sustainable economy". And yes.......I have been indoctrinated as an American. Go Figure!
Well, tahn you know, you can only spare the money from your buisiness to invest in durable solutions and enironmentaly friendly ways to work, if you get to make enough profit. That means if your customers have enogh money to speld on your business and you can save up to invest and improve yur operation.
Environmentally sustainable, not Fed manipulated sustainability. Also, more people would start their own businesses if the government didn't support big business, genius.
Hey, I agree with you. The Fed SUCKS. I also agree with you about the government supported big corporations. Hey.....I think we agree.
One month after SB 1070 passed in Arizona the US job market suddenly stopped improving while other states did the same thing.
This kind of immigration policy is messing up the housing and job market.
If we gave those 10-20 million illegals the boot tomorrow ... there would be millions of empty residences across the country ... taxes would go unpaid ... foreclosures would go up … http://lenderama.com/2007/12/29/illegal-immigration-and-the-housing-market/
This becomes obvious when you look at the drop in consumer demand caused by SB 1070 inside Arizona, and similar destructive policies began in many other states at the same time.
Vendors say illegal immigration crackdown prompted Mesa Swap Mart's closing http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/arizona/immigration/article_f1f25e2c-80b1-11df-995d-001cc4c002e0.html
Meanwhile, the economy of Mexico is improving.
In Mexico, an energized economy raises hopes http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-02-10-Mexicorising_N.htm Mexican President says countries economy getting better http://www.chron.com/news/nation-world/article/Mexican-president-says-country-s-economy-getting-1734927.php
The US recession and the Mexican boom correspond with illegal immigrants leaving the US and going to Mexico.
Illegal immigrant population declines 1.7 million at the beginning of the recession http://www.cis.org/IllegalImmigration-ShiftingTide
Seems fairly obvious that illegal immigrants are taking their consumer demand with them back to Mexico when they leave the country, and that this is one source of the decline in consumer demand that is causing unemployment in the US and economic prosperity in Mexico.
Because corporatism is stifling demand. These protests can very well be the market trying to correct its self. I'm confident these kids will be the ones to free the markets from the grip of the financial system that's holding the money hostage.
The banks aren't "holding the money hostage". They are just nervous about making loans to small businesses in this bad economy. Remember.....banks "sell money". They would "sell" as much "money" as they could if they had a better guarantee of having it paid back. Don't listen to the politicians.....their agenda is not in the best interest of the people (that goes for both parties).
You're absolutely right. Politicians are essentially corporate employees and their agenda is not in the best interest of the people. Lets get the money out of politics.
This economic collapse was a carefully planned and executed by those on top, do your homework. Our world won't start changing for the better until our entire economic system is overhauled.
DAVID ICKE - THE COMING ECONOMIC CRASH , BANKING FRAUDSTERS & FAKE OBAMA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm6kHLR07ZY&feature=player_embedded
He starts talking 2 minutes in.
lol you willing paid 135K in federal income tax. thats just silly. you could have given that to me instead donating to a corportation. there is no law or amendment that obligates anyone to pay federal taxes. every last one of those dollars you donated went right into the pocket of a the owners of a private corpora known as the federal reservere. your not paying taxes to help your economy you are giving it away. this is the great "loop hole" everyone keeps refering to and that all the wealthy people know. we do not have to pay federal income tax. just stop. build your business. dont believe me. look it up.
I have no reason to doubt you. I was just trying to stay out of jail.
they cant put you in jail. all you have to say is where is the law that requires me to pay federal income tax. the irs know there is no law so if they do come for you which they wont. its the 16th amendment. it was never ratified. it was fraudulently claimed to be ratified back in the day but then later people discovered it wasnt there for the 16th amendment is not a part of the constituion. what is funny is that wikipedia says it was ratifed still. that just shows you who owns wikipedia. lol check this out. http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/
With what goddamned money? You want us to gamble with our families money? Yeah im not too interested in seeing my family on the street because you were too selfish to hire people.
I used my family money that I saved from working as a laborer at a paper mill. People like you always want other people to take the risks and create the jobs. When are you going to do your "fair share"?
By the way, I have hired 46 people so far. I just haven't hire people like you....and I never will. I take that back....I did hire someone like you, but I had to fire him for not showing up for work.
Most people want to help the country. What is not known is how to do it. There are no simplistic answers: if there were this web site would not exist. I hear your frustration, but do you hear the frustration of those who played by the rules and lost everything. That is real and they don't know what else to do. There are no answers coming from this movement. What it is doing is getting people to ask, "How and Why did this happen?" All we do know is that Wall Street owns many politicians. What we need is separation of Corporation and State and a retraction of the absurd notion that a corporation is a person.
Read the article How can a corporation be legally considered a person?
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2469/how-can-a-corporation-be-legally-considered-a-person
This movement is not about getting something for nothing. It is about taking the insanity out of our laws. And that insanity serves ??? CORPORATIONS! Having food, shelter and health care is not a right, at least not specified in the constitution. What is in the constitution is that the people have the right to pursue those things. But how can you pursue those things when you are in completion with a person who has no physical body such as corporations. If an individual commits a crime he or she goes to jail. When a corporation commits a crime it is dissolved only to rise again under a different set of corporate articles. The system is rigged and you know it.
Thanks for the reply. It is good to see some diversity of intellectual thought (you are in the minority). Don't get down on all corporations. Most of them do good for people. It is just the very powerful few that give "corporations" a bad name (the media loves to hype it as the norm). Small biz guys (and gals) like myself contribute to charity, keep employees on the payroll (when we can barely afford it) sponsor little league sports team (cheer leading in my case), etc. Corporations are just a collective of common folks that have invested money (think pension funds...etc). Most people that violate the law get prosecuted. No need to shut down corporations, we just need to shut down the people who violate the law. The system is only rigged at the top, and only by a few bad apples.
I have no intention of disparaging the "movement", I am just trying to lend a little understanding from a different perspective. The "movement" needs to offer solutions, not just criticism. And, the solutions need to be practical.
Actually, why don't all the protesters go out right now and start a small business?
I think that's an interesting solution. What business? Farming? Newspaper? Clothing? It would actually send a shock to the business world if we could start a successful small business built on fair practice and fair distribution of wealth.
That would send a shiver down Wall Street's spine. It would also encourage many Americans to do the same.
with what money?
If you will take some time to think about it, you will most likely come up with a good idea for a profitable business (profitable businesses hire people, and stay in business). I would love to see a dominant business structure where all the stock holders were the employees, and the residence of the local community. Wall Street would go out of business. You could buy the local company stock, from a locally owned bank (run by a trusted local). Let's start a "Go-Local" movement.
AGREE, we need to be the change we want to see, not demand change from our masters like children, we need a paradigm shift.
You are getting the picture.
Maybe you are getting the picture too? These kids are working very hard to organize this movement. Their assemblies are inspiring, you should go check them out. They are seriously taking it upon themselves to make democracy work independently of the politicians, from the entire spectrum, that have failed them. These are hard working, generous people and I hope to one day be able to employ or do business with many of them.
They are America's future. Maybe the future is now.
I agree that there should be more solutions. However, you can down someone for knowing that there is a failing system and just not coming up with a solution. The majority of people know that there is a failing system and they are simply calling it out. However, there is a solution. Go to Ozzir.com and see how you can be part of a solution to the failing system.
well said.