Forum Post: Do you actually want SOLUTIONS or do you just want to complain?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 8, 2011, 2:22 p.m. EST by bap840
(13)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Subsidized Labor is a solution and probably the best damn idea I've heard in a long time http://subsidizedlabor.org
Vomit. Dry heave. Repeat.
We need to DEMAND that the Congress we have now starts doing their jobs, which is working for us. I think they forget that. We need a jobs policy and an energy policy! We need laws that will prevent banks from doing this to us all over again. And we need affordable Health care that is not controlled by the Insurance companies and the providers. I do believe President Obama is working for the "middle class", seniors and the poor. They just put up so many obstacles that prevent him from improving our conditions.
We need to DEMAND that the Congress we have now starts doing their jobs, which is working for us. I think they forget that. We need a jobs policy and an energy policy! We need laws that will prevent banks from doing this to us all over again. And we need affordable Health care that is not controlled by the Insurance companies and the providers. I do believe President Obama is working for the "middle class", seniors and the poor. They just put up so many obstacles that prevent him from improving our conditions.
The best we believe we can offer at this point is a plan to elect a "shadow congress" by the spring and to meet next summer to draft and vote on a platform and petition of grievances. If the new government in 2012 does not act upon the petition of grievances to the satisfaction of the 870 delegates and the People, the delegates will call for the resignation of the entire government and demand that new elections be held.
see the proposed action plan: https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
Can't help but think you're Brian promoting your own idea. Not bad, nice try.
Unfortunately, it doesn't address the underlying concern of: Where do these jobs come from? The idea is effectively raising the minimum wage and subsidizing it through an increased tax burden.
But what are people going to do? Dig holes and then fill them up again?
Where exactly is the revenue going to come from again? Savings from not having welfare?
"Devil's in the details" is right. Work those details out and we'll visit the site again.
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So, where do the jobs come from again? They just magically appear?
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You realize that it's not actually answered on the site, right? You're welcome to quote me ANYTHING from that page to prove me wrong.
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Jobs are created when there is value to be created. If there's no value, there aren't any jobs, no matter whether the employer is paying directly or through taxes. In the first case, the employer has no money to pay workers because it's producing no value, and in the second case it has no money to pay taxes because it's producing no value.
Value creation = job creation. Three card monty games with who's paying doesn't change that one iota.
Also, Mr. Pittman, cursing and insulting people won't win you many supporters.
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Also, on value creation and jobs being poor logic, and your idea being good: don't kid yourself. Your statement "The devil's in the details" is absolutely right. If you're brilliant, which you may be, then work through some details and figure it out. Make it actionable. Don't bitch that others don't get it when you don't get it yourself well enough to explain how it will work in real life.
As an example, if I can sell a unit of product for $10 by paying $6 to a worker in the US or $3 to a worker in China, yes, you're right, the job gets outsourced. Now, if I could do it for $0 to a worker in the US while the gov't pays the worker his $6, sure, I would, absolutely! I'm making even more money now! Subsidized labor is a success!
Except that no new value has been created, no new job has been created. That $6 still has to come from somewhere—and at the end of the day, it's going to come out of the $10 I made, whether directly through payroll or indirectly through an increased tax burden. Because that's the only source of value.
The point of the site is not to work out every single detail by myself. The point is to attract support from others who believe in the possibility of a better system. Anyways, I have to go now.. I'll try to come back later to explain economics to you. In the meantime .. think about it some more.
Ah. The brilliant buck pass. I stand in awe.
Really? You're not Mr. Pittman, the registrant of subsidizedlabor.org, who has an email address of bap840@hotmail.com, the same handle you're using on this site? And then you promoted the website here? And call him "billiant?" That is a remarkable coincidence!
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Eventually you'll see that the one common element in everyone's continual rejection of your idea is... your idea.
So you're asking all the parents of these selfish little hippies to shut down "their" bank accounts? Why? "They" aren't the ones angry at Wall Street...the hippies are, and the hippies don't have bank accounts!
I want a solution to "where is the money?", why isn't it posted on the front page. Where are the "leaders", and the money?
Is this movement self-imploding?
Get on the same page: we're obliged to organize together and deliver an actionable idea: so let's put some teeth into it people - line up and shut down BofA, one account at a time. Bank of America is a corporate bully. If you don't have an account at BofA (I salute you!) then line up in solidarity and ask as many questions of the tellers as they have time for as to why their bosses deceived the American people for a quick buck? Take their time up and question their judgement.
Take a bite out of corporate crime! Line up and close those accounts.
NEXT THRUSDAY OCTOBER 13, CLOSE YOUR BofA ACCOUNTS
I closed my bofa account 3 years ago. You really don't understand capitalism do you? If BofA raise their fees too much people will just switch to another bank... There are thousands of other banks in the US. Why should the government tell them how much fees they can charge?
It's not about the fees, bap840, it's about not being complicit with the banks anymore. I think we want the same thing - a banking system that has a better alignment of purpose with its customers. AND I certainly don't want a government involved in banking businesses anymore than you do. Financial regulation usually just means that the additional compliance costs just get passed on to you, friend.
They just want to complain, until mommy and daddy can't afford to pay for their vacation in NYC any further. Then they'll go home and coninue their rebellion there by smoking pot and having unprotected sex with multiple partners and demanding lunch money and an allowance.
There may be a kernel of truth there, but at least these folks have the courage to stand up against an obvious problem: our government is being manipulated by our corporations. All we can do is vote with our money because voting at the polls isn't working.
Trolls gonna troll.
It's an idea that will take you a little while to fully absorb, so plan on looking at the site for more than 5 seconds ok?