Forum Post: Do we Really Need a Camp?
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 27, 2011, 2:38 p.m. EST by hchc
(3297)
from Tampa, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Im curious as to what percent of the population agrees with us (assuming the main two points are central banking is out of control, and all our poltiicians are bought) but dont agree with our tactics.
I for one have no intentinos of sleeping in a park. I perform much better when I have a good nights sleep, can think much clearer.
If there were no parks, at all, would that mean the movement would have not happened?
I think the emphasis on taking parks has done more harm than good in the majority of cities.
Thoughts?
I believe that camping in parks in a long-term siege operation is not only counter-productive, but can be dangerous. The risk of sickness and/or death from exposure or infections due to poor sanitation is too great.
I feel it's time to set up a permanent base of operation indoors by either renting a building or occupying an abandoned structure such as a warehouse or abandoned factory. You can still occupy major areas of government and commerce but have a place where groups could return to for rest and freshening up.
Also, long-term siege operations places a drain on resources while sudden hit and runs have more of an impact. I really like the Idea of "Flash Mob" actions which could fly under the radar of the police. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's time for the Movement to consider other options that are more mobile, sudden, swift and effective.
Some people can afford to pay the rent, so they've decided to sleep on the public (as in owned by everyone) park.
Why are people getting so upset about this?
Zucotti isnt public park, and the majority of those there have their own apartment.
Well seems kind of silly to pay for rent if you're staying in a park for most of the month.
Very silly. Im just not sure how the claim to public parks became so important in fighting for banking reform and fighting corrupted politicians.
There are local target, and global. The global goal - to change the lives of people around the world for the better. Creating parks - can achieve this goal? On the other hand, if do not was a park, nobody not would was knowed about you.
It creates a visible presence and seems to have achieved a great deal more than previous, similar movements in the past. Also people who are curious can (could) just show up and talk to people ... and many did. Since it was happening for such a long time, instead of a one-day rally, they didn't have to work around their schedule to do so either.
If there were no parks at all there would probably be other sorts of public spaces that could be used. If there were no public spaces at all and we all dwelled in private cells, then yes, nothing like OWS could happen.
I agree with your first part. But how many visit after 10pm and before 6pm?
Seems to me that simply forming up everyday would be fine, and you wouldnt be getting the arrests and bad media.
It would be very difficult to get people out for a new rally, every day.
And there would still be arrests and bad media, there always is.
True.
Big business does this every day. It really can get pretty boring when you simply form up everyday, do your thing and go home. That is why companies have company potlucks, incatered meals, libraries and quiet places, medical facilities, and security police. They just don't go for the sleep-over thing, gotta shut down so that the maintenance staff can do their thing every day.
HEY - I just realized there IS a great similiarity between OWS and any big business - except for the fun of a sleep-over.
Create a Royal Society that meets in underground. The objective ought to be completely insane. Replace the U.S. financial shadow government and their freemason system by a Monarchy which balances powers among the population.
It seems that running them takes up a lot of human resoruces, energy, time, etc. which could be better utilized elsewhere. It is confusing to me and a wee bit creepy walking through one with different stations and tents set-up. It seems very organized and certainly not a leaderless movement. PLUS It just adds EXTRA problems imo. Why not just have people there in shifts? I guess on the other hand though, it is a cheap place for people to stay who are there from out of town. That is the only reason for them that I can see.
I agree with you. What is the point of these actual occupations? Its destroying the message, and alienating most of the public.
Yes, I don't get it and agree with you that it is alienating many.
Judy, great post. Practical and addressing the camping issue. Common sense in executing the task is the obvious leader. Democratic agreement and action. It covers day to day things but cannot work on long term strategy, crippling the movement. Don't know if you've appraised the demand and appreciate the authority needed to meet even one, but its the max. Article 5 of the constitution is the only real way to fix the problems.
And yes, economics are critical at this late date. So critical, that I might suggest a multipronged/functional occupation mode. We must dissolve our vital differences. We must agree on what is required for survival on all levels. Meaning we should be ready to use each other for our shared purposes.
I support the US constitution unconditionally. It is the foremost agreement of evolutionary human social structure using natural law (biology, psychology, philosophy, sociology, leading to survival) in an intellectual fashion that give huge freedom to the next generation.
The Declaration of Independence
--That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
All that is unobserved by us citizens for the most part and the mechanism to effect it has been intentionally ignored by government school systems that are dumbed down. We are delinquent generally, caught in the WWII fear trance of nukes and earlier religious fears that have become completely unconscious and acceptable, not reasonable tho. We are where we are because of that.
In dissolving our differences and defending our constitution, using one another for efficiency and function, we citizens co-op the homeless as much as possible and provide support for them while on the front camping. Seriously working to rehabilitate them and make them effective at living AND defending the constitution. They are legitimate stand-ins in these conditions. That support is tri-fold because it includes citizens understanding and love, basic therapy in support of effective defense of the constitution with EDUCATION into natural law, where it originates, who it serves, due process, etc. Of course the serious mental cases cannot balance contribution to behavioral burden, so need to be referred.
Got it.
Why don't you Occupy zoos, its where you animals belong.
Ok, but do you agree that the Central banking system is out of control, and our politicians are all bought?
Sleeping on the ground is probably not in the best interest of us trying to out work and out think our enemies
I have to assume that the majority of the population is tired of their political leaders, and agrees the banks are out of control, but have no idea why we are so freakin OBSESSED with taking parks.
They need a movement to grasp ahold of, but the need to camp outside in order to create the revolution is pretty strange.
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hchc wrote: I think the emphasis on taking parks has done more harm than good in the majority of cities.END----
I agree for more than one reason. The most important reason is that it has provided a basis for complaint to what appears as legitimate health/safety issues that authority can take as reason for action/eviction. An element of self sabotage can be seen in that whil ethe only thing it really accomplished was some media notability. Albeit, primarily negative.
The fulltime occupation of parks and the public health/safety issues are exacerbated by the lack of a comprehensive, lawful method of making demands that assure they stand a chance of being met.
What was done does not define a clear regulatory path under law to a target that IS accountable to take action by law and meet the demands.
This has been VERY confusing for the uninvolved public and does negate the value of the demands in the medias light. The public is used to movements that have a sensibly defined target with a duty to take action and resolve the issue under the means used to make demands. OWS shows up drumming, yelling, NYPD sends drunks and addicts and pervs, hey, its a circus. Not to mention the Oakland provacatuers transported in to do violent destruction that media can use to misrepresent the 99% and who/what they really are.
**Flat out, an Article 5 convention is the ONLY possible way any of the demands can be met with compulsory action. Congress needs to be put on notice by the 99% that the people consider congress and associated federal agencies under their direction to be out of control and unconstitutional and threatening the very fabric of society with what are criminal actions. See these letters for citations of law to state legislations and congress.
Now it comes to finding who understands that protests need to be organized upon states legislatures. They need to understand some legal aspects too. Here is a letter template, resolution form that can be sent to state legislatures asking them to work for an article V convention.
http://articlevconvention.org/showthread.php?10-Templates-Letter-to-State-Representatives-request-for-house-resolution
This is a letter that actually cites the violations of law that congress is conducting at this moment having neglected, non feased and mal feased for so long we are seriously needing to engage remedy. This could be legitimately be used to Occupy Congress in constructive notice.
http://articlevconvention.org/showthread.php?3-Letter-to-your-Representatives
Article 5 is our first and last constitutional right. If we don't use it now, we will not have any rights. Here is general info on Article 5.
Lessig power point on article V http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gpbfY-atMk
Lots of facts here about Article V. http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html
Article V conference, Lawrence Lessig at harvard 9/25/11-other attendee video comments http://vimeo.com/31464745