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Forum Post: Do we need more unionization?

Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 4, 2011, 9:25 p.m. EST by AlternativeSynergy (224)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The country had some of its best economic times when there was a higher level of unionization in the 50’s and 60’s. Advances in shipping, communications, computers, and other technologies put us on a path towards globalization of the economy that had much to do with the decline of unions in America because of competitive pressures.

However, we did have a higher relative standard of living for the working classes compared to the upper class before the globalization revolution, which the greater prominence of unions back then had a great deal to do with imo. Do we need to resurrect the union movement to achieve a higher standard of living (and more purchasing power) for the working class?

32 Comments

32 Comments


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[-] 2 points by cmt (1195) from Tolland, CT 13 years ago

Please read "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair before answering. It shows what this country was like before unions, for people willing to work and work and work.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 13 years ago

ask ronnie if we need more unions.

[-] 1 points by bettersystem (170) 13 years ago

Please pass this on if you agree. We are working on setting a date.

Force Change, Boycott Capitalism

We know what the problem is, let us fix it and move forward together.

When you look at a republican or democrat, congress or FDA official, Judges and Justice Department, you see criminals.

Our corruption dates back decades to when those, who in trying to preserve slavery, had to find new ways to preserve it and so created a scientific and advanced form of slavery.

Only two components were required -- the illusion of freedom & choice and the taking away of the freedom to live off the land.

How else would you get a person to submit themselves to mind numbing or degrading work unless you oppress them into it.

Our current system is rooted in corruption and every attempt in preserving it involves manipulating human thought and turning people against one another.

In America the population has been transformed into two major voting groups but they only have one choice.

They had been distracted up until now with television and American culture which prospered through the oppression of other nations.

Americans allowed themselves to be fooled into using their military and economic dominance to seize resources of other nations and create expanding markets for American profiteers.

Now that technology, competition and conscience have evolved Americans are realizing that our current system of government is damaging and unsustainable.

Our government officials have allowed private profits and personal benefits to influence decisions that affect the health and well-being of people all over the planet, not just in America... how much longer will we allow them to rule over us??

Occupy Washington and demand that government officials resign their posts.

We will setup new online elections with a verification system that will allow us to see our votes after we cast them, put our new officials in office and work toward rebuilding our country and our world.

Pass this message along to any and everyone, we already occupy the world, unite.

Occupy Washington, Boycott Capitalism, Force Change

http://wesower.org

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 13 years ago

America had grand times in the 1950's and 1960's because all competitors were literally destroyed in WW II. Under these conditions, we could tax the rich because they had no place to go, tax the corporations because they had no competitors, and set wages however high we wanted because the corporations had no place else to go. The rest of the world started recovering in the early 1970's (You can use the Nixon Shock as an event marking the turn-around).

Today, tax your rich and they leave because there are other nice places in the world now (ask the UK), tax your corporations and they move offshore, raise your wages and watch your business go under.

Competition is a bitch!

[-] 1 points by defiant (16) 13 years ago

The problem with unionization is there is a lack of conrtol that leads to corruption. The ideal of a unified workforce for workers rights was great, but another corrupt mind saw a free ride. Businesses offer incentives to the Union representatives before the collective bargaining agreements, the reps let the strike drag on so the people run out of resources and become desperate, they settle for way less but let them believe they got more on something else. The Rep gets the kick back and the company increases profits. There needs to be a regulatory committee that people are changed often who are familiar with the law but not in it and they are picked by lottery so no influence can take place ahead of time.

[-] 1 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 13 years ago

The workers don't have to settle for what their reps say you know.

[-] 1 points by defiant (16) 13 years ago

No, but they voted the reps in and trust them. I was lower management making way less than the Union Guys and paying way more for my healthcare but it was my job to look out for them. I heard upper managment giving the Union Rep "incentive" ideas with favorable outcomes. He went to the workers and they shot it down as he new they wood, he let the strike drag on, then he presented that they are going to get a ten cent raise extra a year for ten years, but they will have to pay for there insurance $112 per person in their family. Knowing that there wifes and children were at wits end they all settled for the agreement.

We not only need to come up with solutions, possible problems to the solutions, but how to preserve the idealism of those ideas so they are not corrupted, And very stiff penalties to the violators

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 13 years ago

I agree.

[-] 1 points by packetStorm (128) 13 years ago

In 50s and 60s ... this county was awash in cheap oil ... no turning the clock back.

[-] 0 points by Scooter (38) 13 years ago

No, the unions had little to do with it. The rest of the world was mostly in ruins because of the war. Unions acted as a retardant against advances in quality of living and efficiencies. I'd rather see the world return to self-reliance on an individual level instead of more centralized thinking and planning. Enough with the concept of bigger is better. Let a million small acorns sprout so that we grow a mighty forest, instead of trying to protect a single ancient rotting tree.

[-] 0 points by tomcat68 (298) 13 years ago

Unions AND democrats are not what they were in the 50s or 60s. Most companys take extra steps to look out for their employees today. Unions needed in the 30s, 40s ? 50s ? ok. I believe it started a trend forcing companys to take into consideration employees needs and general welfare.

Today? no. Unions are just a cash funnel to a politicians campaign

[-] 0 points by Mooks (1985) 13 years ago

Ask the UAW in Detroit how that union worked out for them.

[-] 2 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 13 years ago

If you're talking about GM going bankrupt that was an isolated case.

GM knew it was going to get bailed out, so it didn't care.

[-] 1 points by defiant (16) 13 years ago

@mooks and roni both. You are both right and both wrong. The automobile workers were grossly overcompensated by there own corruption wich bleed into the the corruption of the officials. Think about it, were else can you do a job for $50 and hour after a week and a half of training. And most people can't get a job like that unless they know someone in that union or that person owes them one hell of a favor. So after the workers where able to affect the contributers pocket books the price of the auto rose and America would accept it because it needed its transportation. Seeing how readily American society would accept the increases of needed items led into the corporate greed.

 Think about this, how many times has the price of needed goods and service gone up with out the minimum wage increase.  It is the owners of businesses trying to improve profits to attract more investors to get more money.  They now there is a certain point were they are going to platue much like when you work out as society only needs so much of one certain goods.

Do you not find it more than coincidental that mad cow disease was found when the market was down on beef and after the scare was over the price never bounced back, the same thing with chicken.  What about gas, the gulf war with Sadam burning the reserves, the fires were put out but the price never rebounded.  These are manipulative profit increasers that is hard to prove otherwise so they think that American Society is lazy in general so the harder they make it to track back the less likely it is we will look.

So they actually want you to argue like this because it will keep you from digging deeper.  Remember money is the root of all evil, so follow the money till you hit the root and you will find the evil
[-] 1 points by TLydon007 (1278) 13 years ago

"Think about it, were else can you do a job for $50 and hour after a week and a half of training."

Not in the UAW. Where the hell do you get your news from??

Starting wage with GM is $14.50 as bargained in their contract.

[-] 1 points by defiant (16) 13 years ago

I will not devuldge my state, but here, GM auto workers after the waiting period start @32, another one that I have family in starts @20 for shaggers, another that I have family in Starts @20. The industry I worked in Started them @10.50 but in three years they can go upto $18. All of us non union Started @10.75 and recieved a 2.5% cost of living while our state cost of living went up 7% a year. You can probably do the calculations on were I am at. Also, the ones in my state are not part of the UAW but have a collective bargaining agreement with the Teamsters Union

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 13 years ago

No, I am talking about how tens of thousands of autoworkers were laid off over the past 30 years or so because their unions resulted in them being grossly overcompensated.

[-] 0 points by guiltyspark (34) 13 years ago

mooks is right , unions are a cancer that needs to be cut out of the United states . workers dont determine their wages , this isnt fucking narnia

[-] 2 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 13 years ago

Why not?

They make the cars.

[-] 0 points by guiltyspark (34) 13 years ago

because the general consensus with people who go to work is they always want to make more money. economy doesnt work that way and never will. unions and the people behind them are worse than the criminals in washington

[-] 2 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 13 years ago

Striking and missing work costs union members money.

Union members are not going to unanimously agree unless there is a real perceived injustice.

[-] 0 points by guiltyspark (34) 13 years ago

thats nice but the dead us auto , steel , and coal industry would like a word with you

[-] 1 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 13 years ago

its probably because of outsourcing, outsourcing aaaand coal won't be missed.

[-] 1 points by guiltyspark (34) 13 years ago

outsourcing caused by unionization , herp derp

[-] 1 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 13 years ago

Yeah, how dare those greedy unions ask for more than a dollar an hour.

[-] 1 points by TLydon007 (1278) 13 years ago

So your narrow worldview causes you to view unions as selfish and evil for being able to bargain collectively to get a fair wage?

But when a business actually violates the law to foreclose on people illegally, contaminates peoples' water, does everything unethical that they can in order to compete, you don't see anything wrong??

[-] -1 points by sppratam (-14) 13 years ago

The union dues wind up in the pockets of Democrat politicians.

[-] -1 points by Joeschmoe1000 (270) 13 years ago

Like afukkin hole in the head