Forum Post: Do NOT attack members of the 53%!
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 13, 2011, 10:24 a.m. EST by imrational
(527)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Some Conservatives have started a response to the 99% and are attempting to pick fights with the OWS. The MSM are latching on to the drama.
DO NOT ENGAGE!
The OWS desperately needs conservatives if we want to push through reforms. We can't allow the movement to be a liberal group, it needs to embrace all ideologies.
If you encounter a 53er ignore their taunts and insults and point out that our government has been bought and sold out from underneath us. Point to things like the Supreme Court rulings that Corporations can donate unlimited amounts to political campaigns, or that the government can confiscate property from private citizens via Eminent Domain and then give that property to corporations.
Tell them that OWS is about stopping big corporations buying legislation that protects them at the expense of the American citizen.
Most importantly, tell them that we need them to join us because we want to be inclusive. The OWS wants to represent as many as possible because it is the only way we can push reforms through that everyone can agree with, regardless of their personal ideology.
If I were out to destroy the 99% movement, I would spend all my time reminding people about the issues that divide them. It's an old and effective trick: divide and conquer. They have successfully divided us in half - Left and Right, and they use social issues, hate, and prejudice to distract us from the fundamental economic issues that unite us. But we're catching on; we are smarter than they think we are, and we WILL come together to drive corruption from our government and financial system. Yes, please, ignore those sent to divide us.
great comment!
A San Francisco church moved its $20 mill. from Bank of America to a credit union. We have to vote with our feet and wallets. Take your business to coops. If you have a 401K disinvest in BofA. Tell your union and/or pension plan to disinvest in corporations who don't behave in a patriotic tax paying manner, in corporations where the highest paid employee earns more than 10 times the average, benefits included, Moving money is the language they understand on Wall St. The rest is just words.
This is not a left or right issue. It is time to become Centered. Let the left and right spin while remaining centered in Equality. Justice. Peace (Inner Peace). Human relationships do not seem to be our strong point around the World. A lack of humanity has had a stronghold for a long long time. We can strive to live up to our name. The UNITED states of America.When we awaken in the morning to figure out more and more ways to increase our bank account at the expense of others, we're calling this competition, there is something lacking in this picture.There is a serious void in our being. WE have lost our own Center. We now have financial bullies on the playground who will have to get a whippin" so to speak. They are on the left and right. This movement has nothing to do with supporting an elected official nor feeding this current system.
Being left or right is the trap set by the privileged to control the government. The bribes screw the left and the right. Read SCREWED AGAIN. http://overthecoals.blogspot.com/
Race, gender, gay marriage, and abortion or all traps used to divide and conquer.
Economists who advise the politicians created this economic disaster for the left and the right. No sane person would fail to discredit the economists who peddled globalization. America abolished slavery with the 13th amendment in 1865. It didn't say move the slaves from Alabama to China where we can't see them working 16 hours every single day with no day off.
ows from start has been democratic and all republicans do nothing but demonize the movement read the signs listen to the people and see tax rich get money out of politics end wars have never been backed by republicans tax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the occupy wall street message
Yes! I agree with this post in whole. This is the point of the whole movement, weather people realize it yet or not.
Great post! Agree 100%. United we stand, divided we fall.
OWS can't change the world if it only reflects a liberal left agenda (or any other non-inclusive agenda). They need the right and the middle. In other words, we need to be the whole 99%.
That is the only way we are going to win against the powers that be.
Thanks for the compliment. I just hope enough people accept our message about inclusion
Why would you want to have anything to do with "those kind of people"?
The debate should be about a fair playing field. We should all be bound by the same rules. Leave it up to the individual to decide how much they want to play. Government stays out of it. We don't want government picking winners or hoping for losers.
A fair and open economy is a very populist idea that most Americans believe in. Each wants to manage their own personal economics and choose their destiny through their own resposnible choices. They don't however want to be forced to pay for a lot of the fluff OWS protesters are demanding. Many of the socialist demands can be done without government. Let the do-gooders tackle those issues on their own. Americans are pissed that a manipulated market ripped them off but will refuse to let Marxism take the rest.
Yes there is some ridiculous socialist demands as you cal them. I see them as people fed up trying to do the right thing and getting screwed over. The best thing for anyone to state is that if there were a fair and level playing field, we wouldn't have to demand socialist ideologies to cover the problem. We need a balanced solution, no pure economic system has worked to date and never will unless we put the priorities of the people of the country first.
We need an educated work force that can learn environmentally safe technologies to advance us from the environmentally dangerous technologies we are using. We cannot advance from where we are today with the current status quo. Many bright minds are being extinguished due to lack of money. That is the biggest waste of all.
To have a productive work force, we must have a healthy work force.
All participants are invited to voice their wants, to be decided by the general assembly. I encourage you to attend and be heard, including denouncing any liberal/socialist agendas you think are detrimental to the movement. Many of us are on your side with this including me.
The general assembly only allows 2 minutes to be heard. No comprehensive plan can be spoken in 2 minutes. The general assembly is only 2 hours. If the general assembly was 10 hours each day in a quiet place like the Staten Island Ferry where there are bathrooms and a terminal, we could accomplish something. Sitting in a park for 4 weeks has failed to determine any strategy for success.
I made over 90K last year and am not considered part of the 53%.
Why??
Because the statistic that claims 47% don't pay income taxes does not include PAYROLL TAXES!! This is the most reprehensible form of misinformation. I pay taxes all year long and receive a small amount of it back during tax season.
Ask these boneheads if they've ever received a tax return. If so, they are not the 53%.
If they don't, then I am more patriotic than them for giving more to America 51 weeks of the year.
Many get their news from organizations that try to tear us apart, they are NOT an enemy, they are an ally and should be treated as such. Do not get upset or agitated by hate speech. Be cautious to no be enticed to fight that battle. Follow historical models like Ghandi. This is not just a fight for Americans, it has gone global. We need all voices to be heard (intelligently). This is only the beginning.
This seems like an effort to opress any speech against conservatives.
lol, if my mere words oppress you... then how do your words not oppress me?
Everybody can't be Bill Gates, Zuckerberg, or Buffet. Until we elect a government to completely stop all slave made goods under the 13th Amendment that abolished slavery, there won't be middle class jobs for average American workers.
That doesn't allow tariffs on slave made imports. We don't put tariffs on heroin. Slave made imports are unconstitutional. We don't need a new law. We need to elect a government that will obey the constitution.
If multinationals want to sell their products to the American market they must be forced to use the $2 trillion they are sitting on to finance new factories. That will generate 40,000,000 jobs this year. That is the only solution to the problem that Clinton started when he passed NAFTA.
IS THE AMERICAN TRANCE SO DEEP it can't see this obvious remedy?
I agree, those that are part of the 53% are still aligning themselves with the problem we are all fighting. I was surprised of the response I got from a tea party member on twitter when I stated that OWS and TP were not that far apart and it was time for us to drop party lines and work together with our frustrations. I have refrained from stating "Tea bagger" and even though I did not agree with everything the person stated, he seemed to have a different opinion of what OWS stood for. We also have to stop allowing anyone to post ridiculous demands as though that is what every OWS supporter stands for.
They are racist liars. I watch them on FOX. They make it clear to their audience they are racists and then they deny being racists. Liberals are suckers and whiners. They fall for all the nonsense. How many lies does Obama need to tell before you catch on?
I hope this protest won't be futile. See if a few of my posts make sense to you. http://overthecoals.blogspot.com/
http://www.wethepeeps.net/2009/04/has-america-failed-because-the-american-forgot-how-to-think-for-himself/
Who says I believe everything any government official tells me? As a survivor of cancer and one who was dropped by their insurance company even though my premiums were paid, I have stood the attack of the right wing for many years. The post won't be futile unless we drop the labels and stand as one. I may be very liberal in my social acceptance, but as a 3 time cancer survivor, I am no sucker and no whiner. I am a survivor, which makes me the 99%.
Good post imrational. Do not engage.
Still, debate from intelligent, informed protestors is a must. The better we sound, the more professional, civil, and respectful we act -- the better the chances of getting more people from all walks of life to join this growing movement.
The mass media will continue to distort the truth, but we can each do our part as well.
Exactly, the mass media will never expose itself. I write my blog to expose the mass media on a daily basis. See http://overthecoals.blogspot.com/
The news is on C-span. The trial of Casey Anthony with the lies by the media is an incredible example. They literally convinced 99% of America to execute her which would have been murder. The kid drowned in the pool. Some day I will write a book on that case to expose the media. I watched every minute of that trial on my computer so I wasn't cut off by their commercials every 6 minutes.
I watch many hearing on C-span for the past 20 years. That's where the real news is.
This movement will be a wasted opportunity if it continues not to define any strategy and no strategy will work if it fails to nominate candidates who can win the 2012 elections throughout all American Congressional districts. It took at least 2 decades to finally piss off most Americans.
I exclude all conservatives who are irrational screwballs on its face. Ignore them completely.
To keep calling bribes -- "corporate money" "donations" "contributions" proves the deep trance. The Supreme Court decision that allows bribes is itself a crime.
If molesting children was called "cuddling" would that make it legal. Making up a name to disguise bribery is an obvious hoax.
Obama and the entire congress is guilty of taking bribes on the FEC record. Ignoring that bribes are simple crimes proves the power of the trance. If the OWS movement fails to recognize the bribes that can only be the result of a trance. Failure to recognize the bribes has been the corporate media trick that is far beyond stupidity.
The bribe people are the privileged who wound up with all the money at our expense. If this can't be resolved by the entire OWS movement, it will continue to fail.
You raise a good point. I will try and start using the word "bribe" instead of "donate" when referring to those political "contributions"
You automatically just wrote political "contributions"
But sincere thanks, its nothing but bribes. I listen to the pundits claim the anarchists -- hippies -- don't have any focus. Bribes will clear that up. They'll get a clear focus when we all write bribes on those signs so there isn't any doubt about our focus.
I agree. I've been saying the major goal should be "END CORRUPTION" since I got involved and have been saying that needed to happen amongst friends/internet conversations since well before OWS took shape.
The strategy is obvious.
To gather the 99%.
Once critical mass is reached, enough people will have acted proactively on their lives that the corrupt system will collapse. Hundreds of trillions of dollars of imaginary assets will vanish into the thin air they came from.
This is the beauty of capitalism. Without interference, the malinvestments cause the companies and individuals to go bankrupt. The debts get cleared, the remaining assets get liquidated at bargain prices, then the prudent get a chance to use them.
We need a hell of a lot of debt to be cleared. Massive bankruptcies, the scale of which the world has never seen. We need the assets to be purchased by more prudent folk. We need the failures to fail.
It's not just companies either. Sovereign nations need to default or restructure their debts.
A short list would include the big 5 US hedgefunds/banks. Probably half of the European and US banks, The PIIGS nations, and quite likely the USA itself.
Default may be painful, and a blow to the ego, but the pain is short.
Imagine you had a 300 year old tree that's got some sort of disease starting. It affects several major branches. You like the tree, and you don't want to ruin how it looks. If you do nothing, the disease will spread, and in time, the tree will die. If you act, you'll ruin the shape of the tree.
What do you do?
There's only one thing you can do. You have to ruin the appearance. You have to prune the dying wood, and even some of the good wood. But it will live. It will start growing again in spring, and in 10 years, you will have forgotten that it was sick. Another 300 years from now, the tree may still be standing.
Right now, the only who should be held accountable is the one that started the 53% movement. It is because of him that he brainwashed others into following this fallacy movement he created. It is better to try and convince all of his followers the real truth behind OWS. Here's a link that can prove helpful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfEtywGAR0o
Now I know what 53% means. It means that 47% got screwed out of their jobs that went to 100,000,000 Chinese slaves to make the 1% privileged; outrageous, criminal profits in return for their bribes to Congress for trade deals like the one Obama had passed yesterday, and tax loopholes, and health insurance for executives who rip off $10,000,000 salaries for screwing all the suckers.
I have VA medical. It doesn't hurt me.
The Tea Party are a bunch of racists who nominated screwballs but got some of them elected.
Failing to create a solid 3rd party from the OWS movement that needs to begin nominating candidates immediately who will win the 2012 election will be a catastrophe.
The primary goals needs to be the bribes that control the entire government. To remove the control by the privileged 1% who made fortunes with globalization (sending 40,000,000 jobs to slaves) needs to be the goal by this coming election.
There has been no time in history that compares to the mortgage meltdown mass foreclosures, since Shays Rebellion. They weren't in a propagandized media trance. There are 16,000,000 homeless, starving kids. The $5 billion GE didn't pay in taxes they owe would feed all those kids.
The GE tax loophole was the kickback for the bribes distributed by their lobbyists to the Congress for their tax fraud. GE transferred our $5 billion debt to the GE shareholders. Bribes isn't capitalism. Keep the facts straight.
Please define racist (do not refer to a dictionary)
Believing the ridiculous claim by the government and the media that 3 towers fell straight down at free fall speed is a huge problem. The entire crime was filmed. Understanding the evidence is necessary to reach the correct conclusion.
Believing that executives give $35,000 to have a lunch in a huge room with Obama for nothing in return for their bribe proves the 99% are in a trance.
Believing that laughing and eating when smoking weed is a crime -- is self destructive. Locking up weed people and protecting the corporate crooks with Obama and the entire Congress results from propaganda that has put the 98% in a trance.
ignore the 911ers, they have no grasp of reality.
Rob is in the media trance. He believes the government lies and refuses to examine the evidence. That's Rob's reality.
Preposterous nonsense isn't reality. Evidence and facts are reality.
I guess they do have good weed down at the festival.
The 53%er's should be ignored. No use in arguing with a person who doesn't know their history, their government, and most important..getting their information from Fox News.
It is so sad to see people from the "53%." They don't even realize that they've been duped. Also, they are missing the point of 99%. They will never be part of the 1% no matter how much they try.
Those Supreme Court rulings are the result of impartial justices in my opinion, a problem that's become more pervasive throughout the 20th and 21st centuries.
Compare Marshall to Roberts and you'll see what I mean.
The Supreme Court is just as corrupt as both branches. I wrote a book based upon actual experience that exposes the Supreme Court titled Just Cause Just Facts. Read excerpts on the amazon website. None of you had the experience I had directly with the Supreme Court.
The illegal cases are unpublished. The law books are filled with unpublished cases if you take the time to look. I had access to a number of the briefs of the unpublished cases. That's why they are unpublished to keep them secret.
I do not label myself as a Rep, Dem or Ind I label myself as a human being with human needs, goals and dreams- all of which were plucked away from me! Children, owning a house, saving money for retirement- these are something I can not even DREAM about anymore. I am lucky to save money for survival incase I lose the low hour job I am lucky enough to have ! If I were to label myself as anything it would be "Robbed". Dems, Reps and Ind. all over know how I feel- all 99% of them.
The 1% are the privileged such as Strauss-Kahn who raped the maid. It is the privileged Republicans and Democrats who take bribes on the record. The 99% continue voting for the privileged. Being self destructive, sitting in the park for weeks, failing to create any strategy (except sitting in the park) will waste this opportunity.
Failing to examine the evidence that proves clearly that Bush had been warned more than 40 times by official PDBs -- failing to observe the pictures of the explosions -- failing to examine the pictures of thousands of steel beams that were exploded and cut -- beams that weigh tons would drop straight down, they wouldn't fly in all directions without explosives.
See my blog for more facts: http://overthecoals.blogspot.com/
heat up aircraft aluminum to it's melting point and pour water on it and watch what happens.
We are not here to topple the government or make up theories about the WTC or depose the powers that be, or get rid of corporations and establish a marxist regime. We just want to get corporate money out of our government and be truly represented in Congress.
Marxism and conspiracy theories do not represent the large majority of Americans.
The large majority of Americans have been propagandized into a trance. That's the obvious reason that this movement never uses the word BRIBE. They are all conditioned to use "donation" "contribution" and "campaign finance".
There are thousands of examples beside the word "bribe" never being used.
I definitely use the word bribe and it is becoming more used within this forum and community which i find encouraging and hopeful. We can make a difference here!
The large (98%) of Americans are in a trance with you. To allow the 9/11 crime to keep covered up to protect Bush and his privileged conspiracy is the epitome of ignorance. The entire crime was filmed. Failing to solve 9/11 with the evidence that was filmed from the minute the north tower was hit is beyond stupid. Marxism has nothing to do with 9/11.
Read this fact you never knew. http://overthecoals.blogspot.com/2011/10/america-is-self-destructing-part-vii.html
I'm not saying 9/11 has to do with marxism. I am comparing 9/11 conspiracy theorists to marxists in that they don't represent the majority of americans.
I do not believe in the 9/11 conspiracy theory, nor will I ever, and neither will 99% of Americans. This is not the forum for it.
"OWS is about stopping big corporations buying legislation that protects them at the expense of the American citizen."
Drama is good as it is engaging. The goal is to have the best argument and make it clear the unreasonable one is our opponent while being seen to try to work with them.
The media is a giant propaganda government machine. To keep calling BRIBES -- corporate money, donations, and contributions -- proves my point.
Its the bribes that protect the mortgage crooks who peddled bad loans for their fees. The kickbacks prevent prosecutions.
Only manipulated people could fail to see the obvious. Only manipulated people continue to elect Obama and the Congress while they take their bribes on the record. Being self destructive is the result of the propaganda. See my post about the NYT. http://overthecoals.blogspot.com/2011/10/america-is-self-destructing-part-vii.html
You Leftist OWS people are so transparent in how you see things...your words speak loudly. You actually believe that:
nobody is buying your new leftist terminology...you don't speak for all Americans.
We speak for all Americans who understand that Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same coin, and that the battle is between the 1% and the 99%, not between a couple of made-up high school political parties. If you still think that the (D) or the (R) after a politician's name makes one bit of difference, then we can't help you. You're just a dupe, and you're lost....
Your remarks is a good example why we shouldn't argue with the 53%'ers.
I'm a registered Republican and a member of the OWS movement. There are more than just liberals here. I know that some are pushing their ideology rather hard. Just remember that any agenda that wouldn't be embraced by a majority of conservatives won't fly (oh, and continue to remind them of that).
Nice to see you hear. We need more conservatives. :)
You need to change your name to "ARealclosemindedinduvidual".
Um....no. Not at all. Haven't you been paying attention?
I am not buying into this because its very one sided, you are not very real now are you? Trololololol. Yea
You obviously didn't read this post. Does that mean "ARealAmerican" Can not read?
www.labranche.com
www.labranche.com
I don't think the 53ers understand why the 99ers are there. From what I gather, the 53ers think they're just a bunch of "dirty hippies" who don't want to work for a living. And then they tout their 3 part time jobs to keep their families fed as a badge of honor. What I have to say to that is that this is proving the point the 99ers are making. You shouldn't have to struggle like that just to survive. They are part of the 99 percent, as well, they just don't realize. Do not fight them or taunt them. Talk to them. Their problems are the same as everyone else's problems....this is no longer a land of opportunity. It is a plutocracy owned by the rich 1 percent.
Exactly! We need to point those things out to them and that we are not dirty hippies... that we're a diverse set of Americans who want reform.
We do not need conservatives. They are welcome to join this cause where they see virtue in it. Where they do not, it is not our responsibility to appease them. Where they actively oppose us, it is our responsibility to knock them down.
They actively oppose our extreme-leftist ideas. We should focus on the main problems that prevent us from using the government the way it was intended. If we don't we will be a failed experiment.
Using the government can only be accomplished by electing candidates who will represent the middle class. If you don't know that the trade agreement passed yesterday and created by Obama is another screw job, you must be in a trance. The trade agreement is the kickback for the corporate bribes.
Failing to nominate a 3rd party now will be a complete waste of the OWS.
unended, YES it is your job to appease them. If your goals would not be accepted by a majority of American conservatives, then they are doomed to fail. We need goals that EVERYONE will embrace.
I am shocked you don't understand that.
I am happy to discuss and persuade. I have no intention of compromising or watering down principles. That defeats the purpose. Again, I welcome any conservative that supports the movement, but the movement should not change to support conservatives.
and how do you define the movement in a way that it wouldn't support conservatives from the get-go?
The movement seeks to reign in Wall Street, oppose corporate influence over government, and also to restore an equitable distribution of income, which would include, e.g., sharp increases in taxes on the highest income earners. Many conservatives seem to oppose the last, and might oppose solutions that OWS advocates for regulating Wall Street and corporations. I am not meaning to speak on behalf of conservatives; they believe whatever they believe. The point is that OWS has principles, and anybody who supports them is a-OK. But the principles come first.
If conservatives are against the last one but for the first two, wouldn't it make more sense to go after the first two with solidarity... and then the third afterwards?
That way if conservatives back off regarding the third one, you still had their numbers and support for the first two.. aiding you in your mutual efffort.
Pushing everything all at once and risking losing support seems rather like poor strategy to me.
Liberals love to whine. Conservatives are screwballs needed to be ignored. Quit wasting time on conservatives, please.
For the most part, I agree. There are more people who are sympathetic to our cause and simply ignorant of it than conservatives who know about it and are unsympathetic to it. The latter should mostly be ignored and most efforts should be on the former.
and what do you think the movement is exactly? To me, it is about reform and I'll tell you right now, if you push forward an agenda that is not supported by the vast majority of Americans (liberal AND conservative) you'll fail.
I think the movement is fundamentally about reigning in Wall Street and returning it to the low-skilled, low-wage job it had been between 1930 and 1980. As well, the movement is about addressing corporate influence over government and restoring equity to our distribution of income in this country.
it is not true that the movement will fail if it is not supported by the “vast majority” of Americans, although I assure you that a majority of Americans agree with the above. The movement will fail if it is diluted. The purpose of movements is not to obtain a governing majority. It is to make loud and persistent demands. That is what OWS has been doing, and that is what it should continue to do.
unended, we have enough on our plates with just dealing with ending corporate bribery and closing those loopholes. Let's keep the focus on that for now. Everyone agrees that it needs to stop and with that, the movement can continue to grow. After we achieve that, THEN you can move onto things that might be a little more controversial. Sound fair?
"restoring equity to our distribution of income in this country". Really!!! Keep repeating this phrase and the percentage of Americans who already question your agenda will increase. I am a middle income wage earner and have worked hard for everything I have accumulated and sorry if this sounds selfish, but I would like to keep it to myself for my family and whomever I feel I want to share it with...thank you very much!
Then I have good news, AZTOSEA. Restoring equity to our distribution of income in this country means you and your family will be better off. Only those in the top 1% would be worse off. What your comment suggests to me is that you lack information about just how exceedingly lopsided annual income distribution has become over the last thirty years. The top 1% has been taking an ever increasing share of the economic pie over the last thirty years, and the bottom 95% an ever decreasing share of the pie. Even people who make six figures are worse off than they should be because the top 1% (and, really, the top fraction of the top 1%) has been taking it for themselves.
"The OWS desperately needs conservatives if we want to push through reforms. We can't allow the movement to be a liberal group, it needs to embrace all ideologies. "
I could not disagree more. Conservatives are not only screwballs they are delusional and they are only about 25 to 30%.
Let's say we are only 70%. If we only convince 60% of this group that we must nominate a 3rd party dedicated to attacking BRIBERY, the Bush 9/11 attack, and legalizing pot -- we can get elected. There are some conservatives that will want cheap pot. When pot is legal and taxed, it'll be cheap. That's a direct monetary benefit that can raise the capital necessary for a political campaign.
THOSE ARE VERY SPECIFIC IDEAS THAT NOT EVERYONE AGREES WITH
The point of this movement is to be a movement of the entire 99%
You are just as bad as those that label us Hippies.
"Lets say we are only 70%" Really, who's the delusional one here?
I don't reply to conservative screwballs. I just learned that when I sent her a private message. These people need to be ignored by all other Americans.
You learned that from sending me a private message and then not getting a reply within 5 minutes? Wow.
There are about 38% registered independents. 32% registered Democrats. That's roughly 70%.
Yea, see... you're assuming that all democrats and all independents support you while all republicans are against you.... when, in reality your movement is probably only 1% of the population or less. The Tea Party took many months and years to gain the momentum it did, and we're all still waiting to see if this is going to self-implode or if you guys will ever actually set an official list of your goals.
You can't seriously believe that Bush planned and executed the attacks on the WTC? are you. I must be misinterpreting tour statement.
BTW, 33.7% of Americans identify themselves as democrats, 33.9% as republicans and 33.5% as other, that includes mostly independents. So if you want OWS to be a lefty movement you only have about 33%.
I'm not a lefty, I'm American. If the independents were really independents they would vote for a 3rd party candidate. If this movement continues to fail to nominate a 3rd party on basic principals especially the bribery problem, its a waste of time sitting in the park.
We need thoughtful people who understand the system is controlled by elections. We need votes, not money. Please examine my blog posts at http://overthecoals.blogspot.com/
Independents can vote for whoever they choose, dems, repubs or any third party candidate. In fact, so can anyone, in a general election. Registration only effects voting in primaries.
I wasn't aware that the goal was to nominate a 3rd party candidate, but they are free to do that.
Independents can appreciate the core issue to how money corrupts politics, I think. And fighting the results of Citizens United has come to be considered a "left" issue. The 1% has demonstrated great skill at framing the debate.
But polls consistently show many "left" issues to be supported by the middle, from Social Security and Medicare to a progressive income tax.
My point is that the middle is a fluid group and can easily change sentiment in a heartbeat. Go too far left and you've lost them. If your cause can stay center enough to capture a reasonable percentage of conservatives, the independents are going to be mostly on board as well and then you have consensus. That's why you need to stay on target and not let partisan politics poison the effort.
I agree with what you say. I am so appalled by Citizens United, the partisan redistricting efforts in many states, and the campaign to prevent voter registration and discourage voting, that I find it hard not be angry...and partisan.
Generally, though, polls show fairly consistent support for the causes I listed, but the election results don't. There is something happening among independents that is hard to understand. In doing get out the vote calls, I very often find "independents" to be totally in the dark about their representatives (as in, their names) and the issues (as in, this is an issue this election). I actually prefer to find them informed and disagreeing than ignorant.
Agreed.
Forget opinions. We need facts and evidence driving our decisions.
I write facts and evidence on my blog. Please read some posts: http://overthecoals.blogspot.com/
If your eyes are open, you have facts. The disparity in this country is obscene and embarrassing to most Americans and others across the globe.
I agree, that the main root of the movement should be to take back democracy...it's something everyone can get behind and meaningful democratic reform would result in the changes OWS are demanding (that is if they are really as popular as we think) http://occupywallst.org/forum/one-concise-demand-prohibit-private-spending-for-p/
That can only work if we nominate candidates and get them elected.
Easier said then done. Most of these people are in the corner of the 1% and have already chosen sides so to speak. Were not going to please everybody, its impossible.
You are missing the point entirely. The world is watching. When we engage they see us in petty squabbles and it also reinforces the MSM that the OWS is just a bunch of commie socialists.
By taking the high ground, it gives us more respect and helps further our message. If we handle this the right way, the 53%ers would actually be helping us rather than hurting us.
But aren't we just a bunch of commie socialists?
No, those are just some of the trolls I think.
Shit I thought we were.
A troll? Yeah, don't worry... you are. :)
Ah snap. What an un-solidarity thing to do brah.
Yea, I thought we were a bunch of commie socialists?
The way to fix Goverment is so simple its childs play. 1. Make it illegal to accept any campaign contributions from any company lobbyist or individual by penalty of jail to the politician or the giver Each politician will be given the same amount of money to run for office . How they spend it shows how smart they are..2. We regulate the airwaves so mandated TV and Radio time for cnadidates equally distributed. Civil servant will be that again, instead of a whore with his hand out. NO MORE MONOPOLIES!Walmart/SAms,Banks and no bid contract Haliburton,Phone companies,cable companies. I relize theere are a few but a very few competing companies You move your company over seas for cheap labor you pay higher taxes for moving overseas and must match employee for employee in this country for living here. No more out sourcing phone jobs to India or any other company. You do bussiness is here you hire here. Maybe then those 20 million dollar bonuses could come back to the average Americans hands. I am all for people coming to this country but not at the expense of the working man. The richest Americans want them for labor then they must pay their medical dental and reasonable housing. Other than that i want a concrete wall between US and Mexico to stop the illegal crossing of our borders. The building of the wall will crreate many jobs as Nafta has not worked and must be done away with. It just benefited the rich to move their companies. This 2 party system , must go!!!!!. The 2 parties make sure that no other party can get started or a foothole in this country. No more bailing out rich companies or banks when they make. We bailed out the biggest banks in America and let the little ones fail and they didn't cause this mess. Now they banks we bailed out are taking record bonuses after some, taking a 1.00 for the year like they were doing us a favor. After spending our tax dollar to bail them out They should have been paid a 1.00. There should be a FLAT TAX of between 15% to 18% depending on what the goverment needs. The rate is based on the fact our politicians can no longer be whores with their hand out ,our money will go a lot farther and get things done so we are not sure exactly what the rate will be but this will encompass everything. No more sales tax or property tax and everyone rich and poor will pay the same. With my idea in a couple years there will be no more poor. I live in St Petersburg Fl its a peninsula about 20 miles long and 10 miles wide There are approx 20 mayors 20 councils and aides and aides too aides You want to reduce goverment start local. This is a small area for this many people running the goverment. The size of goverment should be based on the size of the area. Its absolutely alarming at how big the goverment is in this small area. The tea party was started with some good intentions it is allegely supported by some of te richest Americans Like David Koch of Koch industries (BILLIONAIRE) and Rick Scott Gov Multi multi Millionaire of Florida to protect their income and does not even come close to going far enough to protect is from the greeedy Corporate Giants.... ITs run by! I would be proud to join occupy wall street as long as we agree that democracy is the only way. If you like my ideas you may write me at Conscience of America: 5680 Dunfries st St Petersburg Fl 33709
Just remember that we need to focus on goals that EVERYONE agrees with. There is more than enough on our plates with just that. Check your ideology at the door and fight for things we can all get behind.
What he said. ^^^
lol That argument is not going to convince any conservative to join your cause.
lol, yeah. I've been telling people that they need to reign in their ideologies if they want this to succeed, but everyone is too eager to spread their own little personal beliefs. The memes are so deep here you can barely walk.
Yet amazingly the movement grows everyday boggle
It is pretty amazing. As more rational, focused people become involved the movement will wield a lot more credence. It makes me hopeful :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrPGVbmh8LM
Yea fuck the haters. Let's march on their homes too and burn em to the ground.
We are not against capitalism.
We are against those that abuse capitalism.
I think you are in the wrong group then.
I'll have good faith and assume that you are not a pretender.
However, the rest of us can quarantine you by ignoring you.
Yes but I'll get bored and go back to work. You'll get bored and go back to, oh, wait.
"OWS is about stopping big corporations buying legislation that protects them at the expense of the American citizen."
Um. Not helping. Thanks for the feedback though.
Btw, I think your haldol dose might be due.
Yet another reason why no conservatives will join your cause.
"Yea fuck the haters. Let's march on their homes too and burn em to the ground."
spoken like a true hater
Cannot wait for you idiots to show up on my property!! Bring it....and some body bags too...so you're friends can take you home in it......where I'll be protesting your sorry asses!!!! I'm not the '1%' as you say but I'd like make as much as Soros, Obama, Russell Simmons, Kayne West, et al. But I can't, according to you OWS idiots....they made all the money and there is none left for me!! So, tax them and GIVE IT TO ME NOW!!!! ....freakin' clueless idiots!
"OWS is about stopping big corporations buying legislation that protects them at the expense of the American citizen."