Forum Post: Do Not Ask To TAX THE RICH!..Wrong approach
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 4, 2011, 10:47 a.m. EST by xposingfalsehoods
(39)
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Ive marched a few times and we all have different opinions, I personally believe the chant of Tax the Rich is not a solution to the problem. We should not Tax the rich, middle class or poor. We need to get rid of the IRS and Federal Reserve. IF we keep federal taxes (even to increase payment for the rich), we still keep the same corrupt illegal power structure in play. then all we do is stay as financial slaves and we will have to occupy wall street all over again. get rid of the problem once and for all instead of fighting to keep them in...this protest will be a waste of time if our goal is to tax the rich.
Every time the rates go down on the tax level the rich has, this country tanks. It happened in 1929 and it's happening today. the market is crashing again today...
So when there were no income taxes the country must have imploded?
There was never a time when there wasn't ANY taxes.
'A new U.S. federal government began operating in 1789, following the ratification of the United States Constitution. The previous government under the Articles of Confederation had been unable to levy taxes; it had borrowed money to meet expenses, accumulating $54 million in debt. The states had amassed an additional $25 million in debt.[2] Alexander Hamilton, the first Secretary of the Treasury, sought to use this debt to create a financial system that would promote American prosperity and national unity. In his Report on Public Credit, he urged Congress to consolidate the state and national debts into a single debt that would be funded by the federal government. Congress approved these measures in June and July of 1790.[3]
A source of government revenue was needed to pay the bond holders to whom the debt was owed. By December 1790, Hamilton believed that import duties, which were the government's primary source of revenue, had been raised as high as was feasible.[4] He therefore promoted passage of an excise tax on domestically distilled spirits. This was to be the first tax levied by the national government on a domestic product.[5] Although taxes were politically unpopular, Hamilton believed that the whiskey excise was a luxury tax that would be the least objectionable tax that the government could levy.[6] In this he had the support of some social reformers, who hoped that a "sin tax" would raise public awareness about the harmful effects of alcohol.[7] The whiskey excise act, sometimes known as the "Whiskey Act", became law in March 1791.[8] George Washington defined the revenue districts and appointed the revenue supervisors and inspectors and set their pay in November 1791. [9]'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion
The founding fathers wrote into the US Constitution the government's right to tax
'US Constitution, Article 1, Section 8:
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;'
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlei#section8
What is it that you think you know about running a government that the founding fathers didn't?
The institutions that threaten our freedom, liberty, and lives are working very hard to train us to fear and resent the institution of government, which is the only institution we're capable of controlling that has the ability to control the institutions that threaten our freedom, liberty, and lives.
We’ve been in this economic situation before and we know how to get out of it.
In fact, it’s not even as bad as it once was…Everybody’s complaining that the debt to GDP ratio is getting high, but they ignore the fact that it was 30% higher after WWII, reaching higher than 120% of GDP.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/US_Federal_Debt_as_Percent_of_GDP_by_President.jpg
You know how we solved that? RAISED TAXES ON THE RICH.
In 1946, on every single dollar you made over $200,000 per year, you paid 91% in taxes. http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html
According to the CPI inflation calculator, $200,000 in 1946 dollars is worth $2,317,579.49 today.
Source: http://146.142.4.24/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl
Raising taxes worked. The debt decreased dramatically until they started lowering taxes in the 1970's.
Right now, with the tax levels as low as they are, the rich have a choice between paying their workers and hoarding their wealth in offshore accounts. They're choosing to hoard it in offshore accounts.
Back then, the rich could either pay their workers, or they could pay taxes instead. The smart business option was to pay your workers. That’s why my grandfather could raise a family on one 40 hour per week job.
And back then, workers had money to spend on the stuff that made the economy work. They bought and paid for cars. They bought and paid for TV’s. They bought and paid for their houses. And they still had money to put into savings. All while raising a family with three kids with the money from a single 40 hour per week job.
That obviously isn’t the case today.
Foreclosures Exceed 300,000 Per Month for 11th Straight Month – http://www.themoneytimes.com/featured/20100211/foreclosures-exceed-300000-11th-straight-month-id-10100126.html
And:
Consumer Spending Across All Income Groups Down in August (2010)Year-over-year self-reported spending is down compared with July 2010 and August 2009 - http://www.gallup.com/poll/142913/consumer-spending-across-income-groups-down-august.aspx
And:
U.S. savings rate falls below zero - Inflation wipes out gains in personal incomes – http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-july-savings-rate-falls-to-negative-06
We have to raise taxes if we want out of this. That’s the “Change” we need.
Personally - I am on board with abolishing the IRS. It will never happen but that would be part of my utopian ideal.
I actually believe most taxes & services should be provided on a state/local level and many, many Federal government services/bureaus/agencies should be disbanded. I am a leftist who always thought being on the left meant more freedom. By today's standards, I am left-libertarian. I've been alive long enough to witness the evolution to more & more centralized government control in the USA and it is not a good thing.
The rich are parasites stealing the lifeblood of the people.
Hell yes we need to tax them into oblivion.
that doesnt work, i dont get you people I really dont. first just cause your rich doesnt make you evil. some people worked very hard to get to the position they are in and should not have to be the welfare for others who cannot. go out and make your own money and stop trying to steal from others.
Yes.. but take every dollar and it isn't enough... .you need to take every dollar over everyone who makes over $200K... and then what happens, just a new group of rich is now on top.
Really? Back to world of Warcraft, this might get a bit intellectual for you.....
I hate the idea of soaking the rich, but the rich have been soaking everyone else. But at the end of the day, until you fix the underlying issues with the economic structure of the country, you could impose a 100% marginal rate and the basic power setup won't change.
You are reciting the propaganda of the one percent.
I totally agree with state taxes, its the Federal which should be closed down. and almost none of that fed tax money comes back into Americans pockets. its Robbery at its best. but i get scared when I see people like Michael Moore, Cornel West, Russell Simmons coming down and begging to keep federal taxes alive. lets hope this movement does not get hijacked
The only reason ALL Americans are being taxed so heavily is because our government is handing our money over to corporations, using it for occupations abroad and wasting it left and right. Taxing this or that group more won 't solve any problems - and may even hamper the ability of some to lift themselves out of poverty or middle class into a well-to-do position. Nothing wrong with being rich ... it's about whether you are responsible about it. We have to keep the distinction between a rich individual and a CORPORATION clear - it's not an easy distinction, but it's an important one. Also, the ones who truly pay inordinate amounts of taxes in this country are the middle class. The poor can't pay much, and the truly rich have all their loopholes available to them. As soon as people start calling for higher taxes, it's the middle class that gets screwed, which I don't think is anyone's intention.
And, yes, down with the Federal Reserve!
I'm not sure at what point someone really becomes one of the rich. I'm not even sure we're using the right word for the people that we'd like to tax more. I'm lumped in with the low-middle class, and that makes the upper middle-class look rich to me. Do I want to take more money from them? No, I've work with a lot of them, and a lot of them work just as hard as I do and struggle just as much. While I think we need to rethink how taxes are taken. I'd really like to see the taxes money I pay out used better. I'd like to think I'm paying my taxes and I'm getting some kind of service out of what I'm paying that is at least closes to the value I had to pay. But it seems more then likely that I'm just fattening someone bank balance.
It's easy for people who have never worked to demonise the rich.
Get a life pal.....stop watching FOX and start learning a thing or two.
Fox is great. The have the Simpsons. Attacks get you nowhere.
Not for long, cause I don't think they wanted to cut the voice actors pay.
Not really the forum for learning, it's more about shouting ideas that have never and will never work. Use your passion for something of substance.
your right, why if im rich and I work hard to get where Im at should I be forced to pay more??? makes no sense. thats one of the ways socialism works. we are not a socialist country. But if you want to take money from the rich who stole the middle and poor classes money then im all for it.
Agreed. Never mistake social justice for socialism. Bailouts are not found in capitalism.