Forum Post: Distraction and Destruction and Outright Psycopathy.
Posted 6 years ago on June 29, 2018, 10:52 p.m. EST by elf3
(4203)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
In order to distract the left...Trump throws children on the fire caring not about the fear and trauma this causes a young child mind or what could happen to them in transit...while in back halls his minion disgustitons attack worker rights and unions, make plans for a corporate supreme court takeover, destroy free speech the internet and net neutrality, and carry out corrupt illegal activities that are destroying American quality of life and values of humanism and the individual. Has anyone thought this is an actual distraction strategy? And as per usual... human and child lives are expendable. "But why?" ask the residents of Whoville: Money money money ....greed...bitterness...warped idea of revenge... psychosis. And so the corporation (aka CEO's and one percent shareholders) bends us over while our government holds us down...so they can each have a turn and TAKE by force what does not belong to them.
Perhaps only artists should be allowed seats in our government. Banksy for president. We need healthy brains who feel and think critically and empathize... running our world. Humans first...destroy the corporation. Tear off each subsidiary limb by limb, break the banks, end money in politics. Arrest Ajit Pai for illegal conflicts of interest...no actually fine him into destitution...make him live down here with the rest of us goonies.
Why do we need corporations? We don't ...we need actual humans distributing and making goods and services and employing our local communities. We need co-op models and employee ownership. The reign of the psycopathic machine is ending. It is a failed experiment which allows only the elite few to profit on the backs of the many while it subsequently destroys our world, lives, quality of life, and planet. It is unsustainable. The majority of Americans hold no stocks, not one, not any at all. Thinkers and poets...and innovators ...go to bed hungry and work at Staples...and would be entrepreneurs drown in wallstreet red tape and unfair advantage and small thinking small picture shallow wall street UNvisionaries... banksters and bullies dine on their broken spirits (and even their thoughts now thanks to data mining and electronic spying) and carve up the American dream for themselves.
Can you give examples of companies using this model?
https://www.allbusiness.com/should-your-small-business-be-a-brco-op-16002998-1.html
I think investing in employees is critical to our survival as a nation. Republicans are all charity starts at home until it comes to workers. Workers and consumers are one in the same. You can't deconstruct their rights and wages without backlash to your profits. After their utilities, mortgage, rent, education costs...what do these Ceos think they have left to spend? I understand the Ceo makes 7000 per hour (UPS for example). But you know I'm a secretary and after tax I make 10 dollars an hour. It puts a whole new spin on product cost. I mean I worked an hour to buy some socks. Or 3 hours to buy a lamp ( if I have anything left) and secretary is the number one female job ...truck driver for men. So that really says a lot about the economy for main street. You want to deunionize and deconstruct and automate and all that but those drivers and their secretary wives are the people buying stuff...they are the backbone of this economy. (So go ahead shoot yourselves in the foot wallstreet...you'll see.) Isn't this just common sense?
The $30 lamp is likely overpriced. There are thrift stores which sell estate or donated properties at low prices. For someone not connected to a deceased person whose estate lamp was being sold, there was NO macabre feeling associated with that lamp. Besides, the lamp may be of good quality although it's used.
There are many "Memorial"-type things which do quite a bit of good, sometimes even saving lives. Buying estate properties from thrift stores which tend to be non-profit social-service outfits often benefit everyone involved as well as the environment and posterity. I don't mind going to a "Memorial" hospital, attending a "Memorial" school, receiving a "Memorial" scholarship, reading a "Memorial" book, attending a "Memorial" concert, etc. They are often the results of a deceased person's or whose family members' goodwill. I know because I was involved. Sometimes, there are even vintage or antique things that are of excellent quality, are no longer made, or could be found nowhere else, truly "diamonds in the rough."
Yep an example of the price structure compared to regular wages of the commoners but used goods are awesome...no need to big box shop. But that is the point right...mainstreet putting wallstreet out of business. Even if financially you can...why support Ws when it abuses us? Proverbial foot.
It's true that making sure that the demand doesn't collapse from wage-busting is important. If we look at why cities attract people more than the countryside, it's because where there are more people, there tends to be more demand creating livelihoods.
People have needs. Jobs follow. Job do-ers being people have needs. Jobs follow, attracting job-doers. Here's a feedback loop.
In the countryside, it's unlikely that anyone can scoop kitty poop and make a living out of doing it due to the vast distances between the demand sites requiring significant travel times. In some parts of the U.S. countryside, one can drive an hour without finding another dwelling where there is a house kitty pooping to create a job. It's not so in densely populated cities.
For this reason, cities will grow more than the countryside in population in the near future.
So, you don't have examples because such companies don't yet exist?
Secretaries and truck drivers will be replaced by machines in the next few years.
What if corporations will be replaced by employee owned co ops.
Mainly because I don't have time to put together a research study or paper to express or support an idea as well as I have no funding or means. That kind of thinking is absolute...it stifles creativity and inspiration. People don't need to be experts to have ideas or to understand complicated ideas or to support things either. That is confirmation bias. Lack of a formal education also doesn't mean lack of intelligence. Seems you are afraid to express your opinions until you have the correct opinion confirmed by examle and research. That's not a leader. That isn't problem solving. So I get what you seem to be getting at. But we need to trust our guts sometimes. We know what feels right ...at least I do. And that is crucial to discovery and breakthrough. Our hunches followed by contemplation discussion exploration.
The next innovative step should not be to decimate more jobs.. Just because we can do something...doesn't mean we should. We need to push society from capitalism to humanism.
True discovery and innovation comes from not being afraid to follow a hunch. Going with the gut, exploring, and pulling on that thread. We don't need all the answers first. Taking that risk just because we felt it takes a kind of drive that can't be explained. It isn't finding ways to make more money...it is finding ways to make peoples lives better and more meaningful. It is our inner voice speaking to us about what feels right. Who we want to be beyond what we own. It isn't about unicorns or fantasy...it is about having a clear inner voice and authentic self. Intuition. And intuition comes from knowing thyself and self trust to follow it.
If our authentic self seeks to decimate jobs and eat a steak dinner in front of a starving man then it is time to do do some heavy inner work and exploration and rewire the faulty connections. That sort of thinking comes from trauma and hurt and fear.
One issue with the Full Sail Brewing Company example is that it was started by a few guys. They took the risk. They only decided to go coop when the company was not working.
Would 100 people come together and all decide to take a risk to start a company together. That's extremely hard when people don't even know each other. When a few guys take the risk, then they make it grow, etc... then to switch to a coop is much easier since the company is already rolling with a way things work, a product, a business plan that is active in practice, etc... Much easier at that point for workers to decide if they want to invest or not. Not such a big risk.
The thing is, if only one or a few take the risk, the founders, it's normal they have higher rewards than other employees. I know a lot of founders who failed on their projects. Years of work lost, a lot of money lost, etc... It's a huge risk to stop working, something invest your 401k etc... to start a company.
I think if you take away the cut throat ws vultures and landlords ready to swoop on a vulnerable new business then the risks would be far less devestating. It would also take the competition down to a more liveable level. I look at small businesses now and first thing I think is how long before WS starts competing mass producing the same thing or whatever via Chinese slavery...or the landlord ups the rent knowing ( now that someone is successful in the space with said product) that wallstreet will beat you out and rebrand your idea in the same space or buy the building from the landlord...or one down the street and offer the same thing for way less until you can't survive or swallow up all the licenses like liquor or live music etc. So why are the risks so massive? Ws ...they don't just compete they copy and kill off small business. Whereas i see small businesses complementing one another rather like appetizers and side dishes with lovely variety and Different types of appeal that play off one another. One is dinner...then a coffee shop and maybe the dinner guy won't have coffee so he can help out the coffee guy and in turn the coffe guy helps him by keeping the area humming with people and a fun vibe. So its not all the same stuff and i may be inspired to get something from more than one. Businesses work together and promote eachother. So it peaks my interest enough to go back and see it and hey then decide to have dinner after I buy something. And why are interest rates so high for a small business loan? They don't need us, they have much bigger fish. So I think getting these huge sharks out of the water really opens up the possibilities for smaller business success. Changing the interest rates. Successful business leads to employed people who shop more and more small businesses. It changes the business ecosystem. The owner knows the workers and pays them better they are more loyal and work hard and less likely to steal ...Etc. Banks now have more customers less huge businesses and must compete with better terms etc. So a chain is a wrecking ball. They are cheap but the employees can't afford to shop and customers feel guilty knowing they are wage slaves as well as pollution and ways of production. They go a few times get bored. The chain gets a drivethrough. Prices go up. Wages go down. It is like a business 'abuse cycle' complete with honeymoon phase. Ws never cares about neighbors either. They let customers disturb them don't upkeep the appearance whereas a small owner values his neighbors as clients.
The biggest enemy to a person's projects aren't outside forces, but the person him, her, or zerself. Most people don't focus, work hard, etc...
Um so would you tell that to the jews who were in the concentration camps?They just didn't muster the gusto in your eyes huh? You don't really think that. What makes you say it? You seem out of touch.
Do CEO's work hard? Who works harder a laborer or landlord?Most CEO's/landlords don't work as much or as hard as a laborer so explain your theory. A laborer could be just as smart as a CEO but without those credentials that cost $100,000 probably noone will believe it. As well as college is easy, paying for it is the hard part.
What makes a CEO's pay so much higher than the laborer carrying out the actual hard work of a company? The credentials aka expensive college? Or perhaps it is lineage and connections to Congress?
Using an example of 'Jews in a Concentration Camp' to counter my premise is a logical fallacy. It's easy to play Devil's Advocate when you use the most extreme examples. Corner cases always exist. On top of that, there are no Jews in Concentration Camps right now.
CEOs work extremely hard. The bigger the company, the harder they work.
You're wrong. Most CEOs work longer hours than workers. Most workers do 9 to 5, not CEOs.
What planet were you born on?
CEOs of huge companies get paid a lot because of the value they bring to the company. If companies like Apple and Google could hire CEOs for 50k a year, they would. Shareholders don't want companies to spend money for nothing. They know it's extremely hard to find qualified and good CEOs for those jobs, so they pay big bucks to keep them. They get paid a lot because they bring lots of value. Look at Steve Jobs for example, he saved Apple. That's saving thousands of jobs and investments.
The holocaust was a "corner" case? Are you reading the white supremicist history book? And it can easily happen again. Most American Ceo's devalue human beings to tools for consumption. They use slavery. They don't care about fundamental rights. They bribe governments foreign and domestic and they destroy our planet. Not caring about human beings to the point of devaluing them was the core of the Holocaust. Eating steak dinners in front of starving men. The truth is CEO's are spiritually starving...you envy the steak dinner called love enjoyed by most other people you are jealous and want revenge. You round up the workers devalue and abuse them. I think it is a perfect comparison.
steve jobs was a piece of shit and horrible little man...depends on what value is? Money, or human beings. I bet we don't agree.
Foxconn
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/07/apple-foxconn-scandal_n_1325930.html
Workers work extremely hard. Workers have more stress at home than a CEO. Workers have no protection or retirements. Workers don't get time off. Workers miss births and graduations. Workers remain broke and stay broke no matter their hard work or increase productivity nor if the stocks go up. Workers don't get parachute packages. Most CEO's arent offshored to China and cheap slave labor. Most CEO's only make quarter profits go up by ousting workers and abusing workers...not by smarts or innovation. " War on workers" yes I guess they work hard if firing and replacing people is hard work? Don't they have any new ideas? But actually they are killing the company because may I remind you workers are consumers. So without them...no company...and no customers As well as no country. As well as sell your stocks in a hurry cuz the ship is going under. It's a false economy set to crash and burn on the current course.
You complain about capitalism, but your examples of places where workers are treated the worst are communist countries like China.
American companies hire them as well as pushed and bribed our government to be able to purchase and order goods from countries who use slave laborers...our companies are the driving force behind the worlds ills. Those same companies also pay those politicians in other countries for what they want as well as make laws via lobbies here with a goal to...to abolish worker rights and protections. ( they want slave labor here now as well via " deregulation")See egg farms who imprisoned migrant child workers in America It is sick. So whatever Capitalism has become it is sick. It is the multinational Conglomerate Monopoly MNC. It is a new world order...and its roots are here with companies like Halliburton, WalMart, etc. But you already know this. You argue to protect your interests. Which is why people like you are enemies of the state / enemies of the people. Most politicians are former CEOs sent there and paid for by the MNC or monopoly they represent. We now have a corporate government. Which is how Capitalism failed us. It turned into Corporate Communism.
Are you into conspiracy theories? You talk of New World Order and seem to view everything negatively. Have you a penchant for the Illuminati and alien constructed pyramids? Do you believe the government uses sophisticated alien tech from Area 51 to control the populace? Have you heard of project Red Dragon?
Cave Canem! (= Beware The Dog!)
http://occupywallst.org/forum/poll-should-this-google-owned-site-be-shut-down/#comment-1075996 & ...
http://occupywallst.org/forum/is-this-site-a-secret-front-for-wall-street/
also consider: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll
e tenebris, lux? (= From Darkness, Light?)
Just unicorns. I bet you are sitting in your Mom's basement...got bored with video games and Alex Jones huh?
Just like your old self = attacking others about presenting conspiracy theories (even when those conspiracies have merit in discovered evidence, discovered and presented evidence, so - not theories at all, but Fact) - when You do it all the time, only your crap is all spurious as you never have a single shred of evidence to support your crap.
The only "conspiracy'' here is just U, Trashy .. and your 150+ monikers - desperate to subvert this OWS forum! U are a wannabe 1%er & an actual disdainer of The 99%!! And that's not a "theory'' - just a stone cold fact!!! U are most probably a not so secret RW, conservative tRUMP ass-kisser too - ergo consider:
anguis in herba - temet nosce!
I can see how it makes sense for the Full Sail Brewing Company for two main reasons
1) The company was already established when it went coop. 2) A brewing company is not based on constantly creating new products.
When you need creativity, it usually comes from a few people only. Starting a company with a concept, developing new products, etc... I can't really see a coop doing it. Too many cooks. The best art is done by artists working alone.
It might work for companies where there is not much creativity. That's more like factory work. The product already exists, it's just a question of making it.
The problem with factories for humans is that they are being automated, and for good reason. Robots are getting better, and they can replace tedious repetitive jobs more and more.
There are examples shown in the link she has posted. Read more carefully. I read before that the Mondragon movement which had grown out of Spain's rather bleak years many decades ago became rather substantial. Such companies do exist and apparently work well.
Mondragon is neat. Employs a large number of people in various companies. Do you know why Occupy or other Americans never tried this approach?
I suspect that it's because we are still stuck at, "America First." We put the bankster on the platter so the music wouldn't play. We, so to speak, haven't discovered the 'zero' to complement the 'one' yet, as two millennia ago, the ancient Romans hadn't. "America Zeroth" fits our Twenty-First Century modern world better.
Without integrating zero, we are still as messed up as the ancient Roman calendar was. In what year was Jesus born? "Umm, it's a complicated question to answer..."
The 'FORTRAN' computer programming language was "ancient Roman" using 1-based indices creating many off-by-one errors for legions of computer programmers to test and debug. The 1980's prediction was that four millions computer programmers would be needed by 1990. I didn't see the severe shortage that was predicted. There was the modern 'C' programming language using 0-based indices coming to the rescue.
We know how to create "more" jobs for ditch diggers--by passing and enforcing a law that henceforth they shall cease-and-desist using any shovelling device scooping more than an ounce of dirt at a time. We need millions of medical coders and insurance lawyers to allocate medical costs properly. The so-called Communist economic systems allocated how much oil, cloth, food, etc. each person is allowed to buy to consume. Should I need to go to Pennsylvania from New York to stay for a few weeks, I must go to my allocation bureau, fill out an application, have them approve it, transmit the approved form and my various allocations for oil, cloth, food, etc. to one or more of Pennsylvania's allocation bureaus, so that I could get the allocation coupons from them over there when I arrive so that I could succeed in buying the approved items using the coupons. Huge numbers of bureaucrats are needed for this vast operation, not to mention the data warehousing and hacking defense that would be needed and how much time and effort I would need to expend to visit Pennsylvania for a few weeks.
Centrally planned economies are inherently far less efficient than distributedly "[un?]planned or self-organized" economies. We are almost at the end of phasing out all centrally planned economies, just a handful more countries to go. People who know how the "other half" live understand how ridiculous some systems are.
The cool thing is we don't even need a revolution. No one stops 100 people from getting together and starting a coop company, or buying one.That's the beauty of the capitalist system. It allows coops, or any other type of business.
Dr. Pangloss motivates! Thanks for the inspiration. This is the best of all possible worlds! We can all be billionaires if we make the leaves on the trees money like they did in the Great Sahara Forest!
Here's a good article for you grandpa. It explains why it's easier to start businesses now, how the young are starting more companies than generations prior, etc...
http://fortune.com/2016/02/20/millennial-entrepreneurs-study/
In reply to: "ok. I get it. You visit briefly from another dimension each time you write what is so obviously absurd in this one. I'd visit yours but I fear the culture shock would break my heart."
What exactly is absurd?
I guess you haven't ever tried to build anything, since, if you did, you'd realize how much easier it is to manufacture stuff today than ever before. Even distribution is easier.
The goal shouldn't be to be a billionaire. It should be to create something good that you are proud of. The biggest obstacle to that is yourself. People can create amazing things with very little. The problem is, it takes courage to actually take your own ideas seriously, and then to work like a dog to make them into reality. Most people just can't do that. Even if you gave them money, a place to live, etc... they still wouldn't do it. Few people have the work ethic and courage needed to push their ideas to reality.
While that could be true it might also be wrong. Perhaps if more people had the opportunity and access which sadly most often requires money, more people would have the courage to pursue dreams. The sad reality is reality requires income to do well everything. And TIME is money. Time is the most valuable commodity that few people have access to.And without TIME there is no opportunity to create.
It always required money to start a business. The point is that nowadays it requires less money than ever before in history. We also have things like KickStarter and Patreon to raison money. it's never easy to start a business, to bring an idea to reality, but it's easier today than ever before in history.
With net neutrality gone...no kickstart no patreon...buh bye. As well as after their two jobs and responsibilities when do they have time? Shall they update their social media while laboring in the hundred degree heat all day? Wow!
Well, there is still Kickstarter and patreon. We'll talk about it if they longer exist like you think.
More people are starting businesses now then ever before, so some people are finding the time.
Yes rich people because having a dummy home businesses their accountant sets up...is a write off. Uber laundering as well as air B&B. But this doesnt work for broke people. So your stats are skewy.
in reply to: "Yes rich people because having a dummy home businesses their accountant sets up...is a write off. Uber laundering as well as air B&B. But this doesnt work for broke people. So your stats are skewy."
Actually your stats are wrong. Most businesses are started by the working class with no savings.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/yourbusiness/11272894/Are-you-working-class-with-no-savings-Youre-more-likely-to-start-a-business.html
But consider that mega corps write the law with lobbyists and unlimited donations. They now hold the power to regulate small business by setting up hurdles only they can get through with their massive wealth and lawyers and what they can do both locally and federally permits ordinances etc ( easy for a mega corp with lawyers or a pocket politician...reg folks nope)...city state fed. Not to mention banks decide who gets a loan. Not to mention pocket greasing, land hoarding...and on and on. Corporations are too large. We need to have greater anti-trust laws and stop this multinational conglomerated madness. Because that's the thing they do find ways to stop people like killing NET NEUTRALITY. I do think their size should be limited. (Landlords also plus a corporate tax for them) And there is precedent as well as law this issue goes way back.. East India trading co.
The one thing every third world nation has in common is blocking small entrepreneurs with red tape created by large companies via corrupt politicians and courts. Believe that is explained in the book Third World America.
The problem with your argument is that there are new startups more than ever before.
The biggest enemy to those starting a business is not competition from bigger companies, banks, etc...
The biggest enemy is that it's a lot of risk and hard work. It takes good ideas, it takes people to take financial risk, it takes people willing to work harder than they ever have in their lives. Most people would rather work for someone else and get a decent but assured paycheck for a clean 40 hour work week.
And, if you're a 100 people starting a coop, well, you can pool your money together. You might not need a bank loan if 100 people each chip in 2000$. That's 200,000$. I would even recommend trying to start a business without a bank loan. Bootstrapping is always better in my opinion.
Have you ever been to third world nations. They have more small family owned businesses than developed nations. Usually they have very little red tape. No zoning almost, being able to start a business in their home. Many small businesses dont have to pay taxes. Go to a third world nation and you'll see more shops than ever before.
Ok let's get into this. (Again)
That was because of the internet. What happens to those startups now with Net Neutrality gone when their websites can't get seen? Monopolies will now take up all the online "storefronts" just like a CVS or Walmart in the Plazas built by rich developers on land we little people could never afford. That was the goal of destroying Net Neutrality.* Pay to play. In third world nations I'm sorry to say a guy selling pretzels or actually owning a store is probably of the upper caste. In India the elderly generally starve to death on the sidewalk (and sidewalk dentistry among the poor is common) So just like main street now the internet will be dominated by big box. They are treading carefully now because it is still being fought with lawsuits and challenges. We will lose...you'll see. It will get tighter and tighter and Choice Blindness enacted... Verizon or Comcast...Coke or Pepsi? Walmart or Amazon? Chase or JP Morgan (and they all invest in shared stock funds so really they are one with Mutual Interests/holdings). ( which only five percent of all people profit from)
And our own pay in the underclass goes back to the company store we work for (the mutual ws multinational holding corps of america ) when we take out loans buy goods and utilities etc. This is Communism for the profit of the megalopolies. Plus...our own municipalities contract with Wall Street for charter schools and private companies who pay peanuts to workers instead of directly employing our populous...we let WallStreet take the chunk of our tax payer money for their yachts and further bribery instead of being spent back in the community by a worker who lives in the city it goes bye bye.
And dont get me started on housing subsidies to meet the Wall Street rent. Instead of maybe keeping landlord numbers down and perhaps limiting ownership in a town to the citizens who actually live in the town-they pay us to be able to pay them!!! Is that not INSANE??!!! Tell me how I'm wrong.
A classic example is all the myriads of liscensing for average joes year after year sitting for expensive exams given by a private industry. The electrical exam in my state contains info that a working electrician would never ever need. You don't need to know complex physics and complex mathematical theory to wire a house...beyond some basic stuff and codes which is why we allow apprentices. But now take a look it is designed so you fail and have to retake it 15 times at $500 bucks a pop... meanwhile you are trapped with an apprentice wage which developers don't mind. You get to dig trenches...drill into asbestos...lay in rat shit in hundred degree attics. Requires you to pay for more schooling and that schooling expires if you leave the field or get laid off during your apprenticeship and can't seem to pass the MIT exam. Now start from scratch...pay pay pay. (There is no actual test of physical application/ wiring skills) because the exam is really designed for wealthy, connected c test, or highly educated people who will run the business.)
And as I watch Chinese and Australian businessmen and developers buy up all the housing so they can flip it or rent it out to our own citizens for 2000.00 a month...(which for a secretary still the number one female job in America is equal to her monthly income) probably before taxes. And as far as eating and transportation and keeping lights on I guess she can get a night job and learn how to live without sleep? I just shake my head in awe at all the ways average people are being milked.
And some off shore bank owned by one percent raking in the trillions in student loan debt...of our own kids and citizenry. And the politicians flip us all off at the golf course on taxpayer paid hiatus from their mansions and sweet sweet health care plans and rich retirements paid for with our payroll taxes and really believe we are buying this bs. Because they really think they are smarter than us and deserve it when in reality they aren't very bright and their decks were stacked (well full of stocks I should say). Give us all their nest egg and connections and watch what we could do.
The saddest part is that with all their stress working people get no vacations, little sick time to use the subpar healthcare where seeing a specialist is akin to asking the mob for a favor (if you even have it or can afford it) you can't get the time off to go use it unless you want to take a hit in your already tight finances or risk getting fired for some drummed up bullshit. Recently in Boston a woman caught her leg in the subway gap and begged not to have an ambulance because she had no insurance and was terrified of the debt. The working class can't afford all their bills as is. Always chasing the dragon...they will never get on top of their bills most will never retire. We do have a caste system. We just for some reason refuse to call it what it is...indentured servitude.
So ...am I supposed to thank wallstreet for stealing our opportunies...so I'm forced to work for them (with no time off until they quickly abuse me into attrition for the new quarter downsizing) at an oppressed wage and have only their overpriced goods and housing to choose from??
And I think anyone who cant see this was born ito wealth or has connections to it. Has something to invest...and absolutely didn't start from scratch. Because if I took away all your guidance wealth and education and said to you here try it now in this new economy...you would be in straight agreement. The ladder is non existent. As well as Wall Street is salivating over our meager SSI to be gambled on their roulette table...they want it sooo bad. So I fully expect soon our elderly may be no better off than in India. Perhaps that's even how I will go out...becaue I have no retirement...no 401k...and ws is after my 800.00 a month ssi when I'm 74 ( the new proposed retirement age).
Human beings have become no more than farm animals to the rich men in suits who profit on our labor. They see themselves as separate and better /higher more deserving and ENTITLED beings.
The solution is limiting business size, limiting outside investors meaning those not living within the city/ town walls and bring things down to local size because while ws operates out of a few major cities taking all their money out of the town they operate in a local company with local owners will be investing into their own community...we must do same with ownership of buildings and houses. That's how we make housing affordable. There is a new tax on society but we don't call it that...Wall Street is a tax. Nothing more nothing less. Wallstreet is a tax on our citizenry. Only their tax doesn't get split among us...they just steal it for themselves.* Let's make things. Let's open our own stores. Let's employ our neighbors. Let's have our own farms and food. Let's own our own land and housing. Let's get rid of the corporate tories colonizing our towns enslaving us in their web of theft, destruction, and lies.
And newscasters and talking heads get paid the big money for a reason. Do you need a degree or big bucks to read a teleprompter and wear a pagent dress or suit behind an air conditioned desk? Anyone could do it...but you dont see them hiring undocumented immigrants or interns here no siree. No they pay them so much so they will smile as they spoonfeed us the bullshit and pretend it is real as they happily gaslight our populous with their propaganda and multinational conglomerate lies ( or be fooled into believing upward mobility isn't a myth which I doubt pretty sure they are sellout corporate tory whores). When the revolution is over maybe I will hire the corporate tories aka cories to empty the trash. And cat litter (that one is for you grapes)
Corporation + Tory = Cory. I propose Wallstreet sympathizers now be referred to as Cories.
That is classic "Thrashinginhismasks" = life long forum troll pulling yet another sock-puppet out of his pants (ewwww).
Thrasy was banned by DKAtoday before he closed the forum to new users. I remember the day DKAToday labelled shooz, zen, etc... trolls and closed the forum to have it all to himself. The day he destroyed the forum and turned it into his little private club. He took a long time to get the highest score before shutting it.
In reply to your link of children miners in Congo. What's your point? It shouldn't be happening, but we have no control over the laws in Congo. I'm for pressuring it to stop via demonstrations, etc...
In reply to - "AGK...notice he never responded to abolishment of net neutrality"
Well, what can I say? I don't make the rules. I think net neutrality is important and wish it was kept.
Good news on that front, India just voted to keep strong net neutrality rules in place.
Excellent comment, elf.
Tons of new companies are coming up every day. It's an amazing time to be an entrepreneur. I'm betting you never even tried.
Understand a critical difference of scale!
“... History and the daily news alike showed how hard it was for people with vastly unequal wealth to come to a mutually satisfying solution. One had only to read Charles Dickens to grasp the reality of unregulated capitalism; the unchecked economic power of some enabled domination of others....”
from, “Democracy in Chains: The Deep History of the Radical Right's Stealth Plan for America” by Nancy MacLean
"There are a finite amount of material goods."
Your theory fails because we are still mining new materials from the ground, we can grow food, and the universe is huge. We could get materials from other plants. Although true materials are not infinite, we are no where near having exhausted them. We can also recycle.
This is why even though Apple and Samsung buy loads of Gorilla Glass, you can also buy some.
There is no material you cannot buy in practice. New companies are created each and every day that use these materials.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/jan/19/children-as-young-as-seven-mining-cobalt-for-use-in-smartphones-says-amnesty
Show me the actuaries' studies that support your hypothetically predicted results in the real world.
Replying to: "but what are the odds? that's not a flippancy. There are a finite amount of material goods. If one has more than average another will have less. success in what we make from scratch with our own hands is possible for everyone when everyone has equal access to available resources. that's not the case in our world.
Those who have more than average deprive others of the possibility of having average, in an interdependent world.
Those who make money by manipulations of finance, insurance and real estate rob everyone by their non productive activities. The FIRE sector is parasitic busyness. Those who perform abstract services are parasites. they are destructive to the economy and a threat to life.
The more one has the greater is their threat to the rest of us."
The problem with your theory is that it's never been easier to create hardware, software, foods, art, music, etc...
The barrier to entry is the lowest it has ever been in history.
Methods of production are easier than every before. Maker spaces all over the place. Manufacturers all over the world capable of making custom designs. It used to be that if you had a new product idea, you also had to build the factory to manufacture it. No more. Even the largest companies like Apple no longer build their own factories for manufacturing. Laser cutting, 3D printing, all available for mere mortals, and you don't have to make millions of copies for it to be cheap.
Music production is easier and cheaper than ever. You can build a home studio for a few thousand dollars that rivals the best studio of yesteryears that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Software is a no brainer with all the open-source tools out there. Someone can create a software by himself and have it on iphone, android, web, etc... distribution is cheap and worldwide. You no longer have to print discs, etc...
Etc... etc.. etc...
We live in the best time for entrepreneurs. Barries to entry are the lowest they have ever been.
Having the time to do it one. Two most Americans are barely meeting bills since WS took over housing and marketized it. So who is it cheap for when you have no extra money for socks let alone start up equipment?
I'm not talking about theories.
I'm describing mathematical certainties.
Your obtuseness with respect to reality is created by your persistent reliance on right wing/fascist propaganda. You live in a fantasy world that mistakes an anti-christ dystopian economy created to benefit neo feudal Wall St. Oligarchs for the salvation of the second coming! WTFU!
OK, I see, you're an old man. Perhaps you don't know how to use the Internet.
I won't hold your hand. If you actually cared about the truth, you'd be able to do a simple research for yourself and realize that everything I said is 100% true.
You don't want to believe that? OK. Fair enough.
Also, not sure what this has to do with Trump. All kinds of people from the left to the right will tell you this.
Hell, Makers are essentially made up of anarchists and the progressive left, those who were occupiers, and they'll be the first to tell you about how cheap manufacturing has become with laser cutters, 3D printers, etc...
AGK...notice he never responded to abolishment of net neutrality. Picks and chooses his reality ergo a full blown narcissist. Which is the problem. Our country is being run by damaged little boys with trauma spectrum symptoms and disorders. Our president himself appears to have DID/narc/ bipolar (all on the trauma spectrum). Its not about intelligence it is about control. Never resolving someone elses point and exhausting you is the goal. Stamina to "win". He doesn't know he is losing and already lost. It is actually very sad. The best way to reply is with empathy and let him have it he probably knows he is full of crap anyway. He isn't happy.
And you mean slave labor? Maybe most of us 99 ers have morals. If you gave me a billion dollars I would not sink so low. Just because one can do something, doesn't mean one should. There are many ways to make money...sell drugs...sex trading...theft...on and on but we have an inner compass that tells us something is evil. We have a empathy...something it seems you have been either robbed of or were sadly born lacking. Empathy is natures truest miracle. You are missing out because without it, one can never feel truly loved because they don't know what it means to truly love another
I don't care about what may be possible for some. I care about what's probable for many.
Well, it's getting easier and easier to start a business. It's never been easier.
The barrier to entry is so low nowadays.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimjay/2017/08/25/warning-its-easier-now-than-ever-before-to-become-an-entrepreneur/
I already talked about how manufacturing and distribution changed the game lately, but we also have things like kickstarter to raise money.
The hardest part is having a good idea.
Here's a good idea. I'm going to go talk to my grandson and have an intelligent conversation. He'll be four in a few days and makes more sense than I've read here in the last hour.
So you don't make claims and need no statistics to support them?
"Well, it's getting easier and easier to start a business. It's never been easier. The barrier to entry is so low nowadays." That sounds like Trump talking to his base! Maybe you could write for the Donald. I'm sure his faithful will adore you.
See you in the funny pages.
"Show me the actuaries' studies that support your hypothetically predicted results in the real world."
Why don't you show me actuaries' studies that prove your claims.
I'm not really making claims, you are.
Everything you said, I don't see as being true in my daily practice. You say materials are finite and controlled by the 1%, but I can buy any kind of legal material online.
You say it's hard to start businesses because the 1% control it. But, in practice, the barrier to entry has never been so low. Anyone who does hardware, software, music production, art production, etc... knows this.
Your claims don't match up to every day life in the real world.
I don't care about what may be possible for some. I care about what's probable for many.
That is what's important. But you can't even remember that your claims about the ease of going into busyness started all this.
"Your claims don't match up to every day life in the real world." Repeats what I said to you. Like all conservatives or libertarian neo feudalists, you believe what you say because you lie to yourself.
Slave labor is cruel to most of us as a business or moral model. Income is stagflated, downsized and now Attritioned. Time is scarce, exhaustion is rampant in this overworked / underpaid lack of healthcare and processed food nation.
In reply to:
"I'm not talking about theories.
I'm describing mathematical certainties.
Your obtuseness with respect to reality is created by your persistent reliance on right wing/fascist propaganda. You live in a fantasy world that mistakes an anti-christ dystopian economy created to benefit neo feudal Wall St. Oligarchs for the salvation of the second coming! WTFU!"
Then why is it that it's never been easier to do stuff than ever before?
Barrier to entry on almost everything is at the lowest point in the history of humanity.
And, what is right wing or fascist about that? It's a simple fact.
Just go to your local manufacturers and you'll see it's easier than ever before to create stuff.
In an interdependent world:
There are a finite amount of material goods. If one has more than average another will have less. Success in what we make from scratch with our own hands is possible for everyone when everyone has equal access to available resources. That's not the case in our world.
Those who have more than average deprive others of the possibility of having average, in an interdependent world.
Those who make money by manipulations of finance, insurance and real estate rob everyone by their non productive activities. The FIRE sector is parasitic [busyness] disease. Those who perform abstract services are parasites. They are destructive to the economy and a threat to life.
The more one has the greater is their threat to the rest of us.
ok. I get it. You visit briefly from another dimension each time you write what is so obviously absurd in this one. I'd visit yours but I fear the culture shock would break my heart.
I was always poor in my life. Didn't stop me from starting a company a few years ago and making a decent living since. My biggest obstacle was myself, not others.
But you are ruthless? Cutthroat? Not afraid to stand on others shoulders while they drown? Because I see you lack empathy and ability to understand anything outside your own experience. Not being able to put yourself in the very individual situations of others and to see their experiences as unique from your own is very dysfunctional. It comes from deep inner hurt. Without the ability to empathize you lack the ability to also feel loved. You can't ever know how someone feels about you without feeling that sense of unconditional love yourself. You're missing out. You are rich only in wallet but your spirit is very poor. You should focus on that obstacle since you seem to be standing in your own way...and should be easy right? You can do anything? Can you look in the mirror?
but what are the odds? that's not a flippancy. There are a finite amount of material goods. If one has more than average another will have less. success in what we make from scratch with our own hands is possible for everyone when everyone has equal access to available resources. that's not the case in our world.
Those who have more than average deprive others of the possibility of having average, in an interdependent world.
Those who make money by manipulations of finance, insurance and real estate rob everyone by their non productive activities. The FIRE sector is parasitic busyness. Those who perform abstract services are parasites. they are destructive to the economy and a threat to life.
The more one has the greater is their threat to the rest of us.
Have you ever tried to do anything while working two jobs and still making only enough to pay rent or mortgage with little time to do anything else? I guess average folks could cook some meth in their kitchens as a side gig or you know make like a ceo and kill an entire forest, hire Chinese factories employing young female slaves who die very young from the plastic ovens, or eat steak dinners in front of their hungry workers as they slash their jobs and benefits?
replying to: "And you mean slave labor? Maybe most of us 99 ers have morals. If you gave me a billion dollars I would not sink so low. Just because one can do something, doesn't mean one should. There are many ways to make money...sell drugs...sex trading...theft...on and on but we have an inner compass that tells us something is evil. We have a empathy...something it seems you have been either robbed of or were sadly born lacking. Empathy is natures truest miracle. You are missing out because without it, one can never feel truly loved because they don't know what it means to truly love another"
Slave labor? No, where did I talk about slave labor. I believe people should be paid adequately for their work. I believe we should have Basic Universal Income. Everyone should also have a home.
Then do the work to make that happen and support Occupy and stop defending the "Wallstreet CEO". Chief executive slumlords. Chief executive slave holders.
It's not ideal, but I know some people who started some companies with little time and little money.
This is something that was never easy throughout history, at least now starting companies is easier than before because of the things I already explained.
"The American Way" - Capitalism: an economic system that allows 90%+ of the population to be born, live and die in debt; it is a broken and dysfunctional culture.