Forum Post: direct democracy is scary because this is a nation of idiots
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 4, 2011, 7:56 a.m. EST by buik
(380)
from Towson, MD
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
average american iq is 98
: (
Actually the average IQ in America is always 100. It is called the Flynn effect. As time passes, the population gains IQ relative to their predecessors. Hence, IQ tests are adjusted so that the average IQ is always measured at 100. In other words, if you got a 100 on an IQ test today, you would probably have scored as a genius on an IQ test from the 1960's.
But yes, overall the population of this country is way too unintelligent and way too uneducated to be making decisions regarding the entire country.
I think we need to institute testing for the right to vote. Citizens would have to pass graduate level exams in history, politics, current affairs, economics, law, finance, religion etc in order to vote. This would ensure that at least the most educated are making the decisions.
As long as you were born here or granted citizenship you have a right to vote. Period! You're talking Jim Crow laws and huge steps backward! There are perfectly intelligent human beings who never learned to read. And there are highly educated idiots too. There is no fair way to decide who is "smart "enough. Therefore everyone's in or we'll be right back to where we are now with only the elite who can afford a full Harvard degree who will be designated "smart" enough to vote.
Yes, unfortunately, you are absolutely right. Who would be the ones to determine who's "smart" enough to vote?
thats right, it is unfortunate. we let the tests decide who is smart/ selfless/ etc. enough. our current aim, therefore, should be the development of fair and accurate tests; not a bunch of sloganeering or whatever you call the present, failing system. representative government: how true. a government by the dummies for the dummies
as far as institution of the dramatic change toward using a more reasonable approach, we use the current system. its the only way to do it without much bloodshed. create a political party that uses these tests in choosing candidates. the smart love party : ) from reading through this topic, it is obvious that many people would support the idea of testing for perfect candidates, at least. then, once they get into office and the country runs beautifully and fairly for a little while, there becomes this gradual shift toward more enlightened leaders.
I agree with you completely in theory, but you cannot take intelligence out of it's cultural context. Some of the smartest people I have known have been illiterate. There simply isn't a way to create a sufficiently unbiased test.
i agree with that, but only after i put "yet" at the end : )
I think you're really entering some Orwellian territory here. I wish such solutions could work but they don't take into account human nature. "The price of liberty is eternal vigillance," There simply are no easy solutions.
all you have to do is develop further tests which monitor corruption, to avoid orwellian scenario. plus we would be testing for the propensity for corruptibility to begin with. i think it is naive of you to assume that a representative democracy is the highest possible form of government. it really sucks. it has been responsible for much pain and bloodshed, and will continue to be so until we reject it.
i dont think we should rush things, tho. i am talking about the evolution of a better government over the course of several hundred years, with necessary growing pains.
In light of that last caviot, all I can do is suspend judgement.
so hows that fair system workin out?
: )
you should have the choice to serve society in some manner (such as military service or some sort of civil service) to earn franchise. this option is open to any civilian born in the country. until you show you are willing to sacrifice something to a society you should have no say in how that society is run
huh. thats cool i didnae know that. i just searched online and i saw 98 a few times.
yeh man/ woman you speak the straight truth. i dont think i'd do well in grad level exams in all those subjects but that doesnt matter. if i dont make the cut, so be it. probably better that way.
i would also like to do psychological testing on potential voters.
this is all dreaming tho... i have a feeling we wont be this advanced as a civilization for at least two or three hundred years... plus you have to convince the idiots that its in their best interest. i just wish i were born in a time when this was the norm.
when you are at the occupation, you may look around and say, hmm, the average american is fairly intelligent...
but you're not thinkin that at the walmart.
Yeah, I am not so much thinking that at the occupation...
Hey Buik...couldn't get any worse than the mob of 535 idiots we have..screwing this country up.
i think it will get worse before it gets better, unfortunately
true..
Anyone ever read Plato's "The Republic"? I highly recommend it!
Nothing is done in USA without good plan from government. Uneducated population is their fault or purpose also. I see 99% are so much brainwashed and conditioned to be stupid slaves they will have hard time to came out of it's shell. But i like them knocking on this shell.
Average IQ is always 100. It is adjusted so 100 is the mean number.
yeh someone tole me that already. i guess i'll fix it. thanks
A form of direct and/or consensus democracy, where all people would be allowed to vote for every major economic matter and thus directly participate in decision-making. Theoretically such a system is plausible on a large scale, especially with the use of modern technology.
The only real problem with democracy is if you let the masses make decisions regarding peace vs violence, and equality vs oppression. If those types of laws were simply mandated- like anti-slavery and civil rights/women's rights, murder etc.. laws, just were laws without votes. If that were the case, it would not allow for lynch mob mentality. That way, any unjust laws that get passed through the democracy are not hurting anyone and can be readdressed later- without the fear that people will get hurt.
well in the slavery days of the south the law and the mandate was to keep slavery alive for 200 years. Had we a system where only intelligent, enlightened people made decisions, we wouldnt have had slavery in the first place...
we are on the cusp of being able to test with great accuracy for intelligence, altruism, etc. why not use these tests to better our country in some way; to avoid mistakes before they are made?
Because people are equal. Even if you don't like what they are saying they have a right to say it. The only place that line should be drawn is if it truly harms another person in a real way.
people are not equally skilled in making decisions. remember the public outcry for war in iraq after 9/11, how the majority was initially in favor of it, how their elected leaders were responsible for much unnecessary heartache?
many, many, many deaths later, the common will switched to opposition, but by that time their elected leaders had already fked up; the damage was already done. everyone was already dead. had we leaders who were more intelligent and altruistic making those decisions for the country, the war would never have happened.
the question then becomes how do we choose the most intelligent, altruistic leaders. the current system has failed in doing so.
Which is why I said that peace is exempt from the democratic process. Peace just is. That was the entire point of my post. Reread it.
no i dont feel like it. you should have been more clear.
The only real problem with democracy is if you let the masses make decisions regarding peace vs violence, and equality vs oppression. If those types of laws were simply mandated- like anti-slavery and civil rights/women's rights, murder etc.. laws, just were laws without votes. If that were the case, it would not allow for lynch mob mentality. That way, any unjust laws that get passed through the democracy are not hurting anyone and can be readdressed later- without the fear that people will get hurt.
There. Now you can reread it. I was clear, asshat.
do you need me to rewrite that for you?
I was clear. That was the entire point of my post. If you refuse to read it, you are only proving what a hateful, ignorant troll you are.
good point...party in my blue tent @ 7:30 PM....BYOB.
i'm kinda tired tonight just got back from the golf course. long day of mediocre golf. maybe if you have a party tomorrow i might show up. i dont drink tho. i just use all types of illicit drugs.
drinking is no good for me. makes me all crazy : )
A form of it could work. We could elect delegates to positions that require significant knowledge. They can take care of most of the decisions. But, if enough people are unsatisfied with their judgement, we can vote to veto their decision, make them carry out some other plan, or simply fire them.
If you treat people like adults, they will act like adults. If you treat people like idiots that can't make a good decision, they will become conservatives.
see, yes, i like the way you think.
the so-called educated are often the most shallow, indoctrinated, group-thinking jackasses out there. why should we give them the right to vote over the less educated? give me a break. are you going to tell me Bil Clinton was some mental colossus? not at all. Billy Boy's success was built on blind ambition and self-importance
I am very well educated with a high IQ; and I am not a shallow, indoctrinated, group-thinking jackass. Perhaps you should use a little less judgement and hatred when you speak. It really ruins the whole argument.
if he passes the iq test he's in... doesnt really matter what you think.
thats the whole idea ; )
queenann, ahs'll meet u! where dat green tent o yours? i got the dope
I'm in the green tent, near the little brown tree...hurry up. There a lot of other people who want to be in my tent.
Force Change, Boycott Capitalism
We know what the problem is, let us fix it and move forward together.
When you look at a republican or democrat, congress or FDA official, Judges and Justice Department, you see criminals.
Our corruption dates back decades to when those, who in trying to preserve slavery, had to find new ways to preserve it and so created a scientific and advanced form of slavery.
Only two components were required -- the illusion of freedom & choice and the taking away of the freedom to live off the land.
How else would you get a person to submit themselves to mind numbing or degrading work unless you oppress them into it.
Our current system is rooted in corruption and every attempt in preserving it involves manipulating human thought and turning people against one another.
In America the population has been transformed into two major voting groups but they only have one choice.
They had been distracted up until now with television and American culture which prospered through the oppression of other nations.
Americans allowed themselves to be fooled into using their military and economic dominance to seize resources of other nations and create expanding markets for American profiteers.
Now that technology, competition and conscience have evolved Americans are realizing that our current system of government is damaging and unsustainable.
Our government officials have allowed private profits and personal benefits to influence decisions that affect the health and well-being of people all over the planet, not just in America... how much longer will we allow them to rule over us??
Occupy Washington and demand that all government officials resign their posts.
We will setup new online elections with a verification system that will allow us to see our votes after we cast them, put our new officials in office and work toward rebuilding our country and our world.
Pass this message along to any and everyone, we already occupy the world, unite.
Occupy Washington, Boycott Capitalism, Force Change
http://wesower.org
Facts or GTFO
look it up i dont have time. i already did it but if you dont trust me, just google "what is the average american IQ" take the first twenty figures you get and average em out. it will be very close to 98.
i was corrected in this thread. someone more in the know than i stated that 100 is always the average iq, statistically, based on test results of the previous years or somethin...
http://tinyurl.com/3mtlfjz
i said take an average of twenty, dumbass
OWS is creating a class of people that are not willing to work for themselves and just want the government to had them money and a house and food. Well news flash, people have to work for a living and some people have to work even harder for a living. Thats the way the world works. BESIDES, ISN'T AMERICA THE 1% OF THE WORLD? we have the best living and the best overall country in the world.....we also run the fricken world! so welcome to the 1% you are trying to destroy, its America, we are the 1% of the world and if you do't like it feel free to leave....
You're absolutely right. You are free to leave this country if you despise those who wish to uphold the Constitution and the American Dream. Go on, then. I've heard that Switzerland is a nice place to live.. oh wait, that's a Socialist country, isn't it?
(it is not, actually. They just have a pretty remarkable government that the Teapublicans would have a sh*t fit over. :)
yeh! i think when theres a problem with this country people should just leave, too. fuck trying to improve it.
do i sense some sarcasm?
but then it would be in the individual's interest to educate his, or her, peers. also it would be in businesses' interests to not dumb us down.' Governments would be interested in stomping out miss information.
not necessarily. thats kinda the problem with what i suggest. it can be manipulated just like any other system.
but i have a feeling it would still be better than this, provided we put some safeguards in place...
Representative democracy is equally scary for the exact same reason though. It just concentrates more power into fewer idiots' hands.
no doubt. then you combine it with free-for-all capitalism and people wonder what fucked up.
Give it up then
i'm not a big fan. not a big fan of representative democracy either.
i think people are just holding onto it because so many people have "died for it" and if we came up with a better system, they'd look stupid... i seriously believe that. people in the united states are completely brainwashed into thinking this idiotic system is worth dying for. its not.
Interesting. Why do you think its idiotic? I just think it has been degraded by money. What do you think would be a better system?
well yeh its the combo of democracy and unchecked capitalism that is really bringing us down. i dunno. there has to be a way to choose an enlightened ruler tho. the people, obviously, just never do it. i have a feeling it has to do with advanced testing techniques and lots of safeguards. and definitely growing pains...
our greatest presidents pale in comparison to a lot of random people i have met
I think our Founding Fathers knew that, in general, alot of people are not very intelligent! Some of us would like to be more informed and intellectually more advanced, but lets face it - in some respects, it's just not realistic. We're all just trying to do the best we can.
That's partly why I think a Representative Republic is the way to go. But the way it works now, is not what our Founding Fathers intended. A political system awash in money, drowning out the voices of the people our elected officials are supposed to represent.
I think our capitalist system is a problem too. Big corps have gotten too BIG. Whatever percieved benefits they might bring is being outweighed by a greater cost to society. Whatever happened to Anti-Trust and rules preventing monopolies?? I think Anti-trust needs to be stricter.
Whatever lack of leadership and intelligence in our government is a result of a distorted, perverse, corrupted political process driven by money. I think we can pick better leaders, but our leaders are chosen for us by the monied political machines (RNC,DNC, PACS) that drive the process. Just look at the Repub field right now. Jeesh!!
See The Common Law Republic.
my IQ is 167. I am so smart it is crazy.
i think that puts you well into the 1% : )
...I'll contact you later today Mr. Bulk.... Re. party in my little blue tent.... I'm going to have refreshments and entertainment.
50% of the bastards are below average!!
Meet me in the green tent @ the north east corner of the park, @ 8:00 pm. I need to be with someone....I would prefer a man.
you're gonna have to try harder than that for me, baby.
well...I thought we were here for unity. I have some cool dvd's of repeats of Wild Kingdom we could watch. does that interest you?
not really. do you have any drugs?
I have some tylenol for my cramps. and some zyrtec for my stuffy nose. If you want anything else you need to stop and get it before you visit.
lol. well at least you didnt lure me in under false pretenses.
have a good night. If I get any more medications I will contact YOU immediately. you are on my radar honey.
thanks, you too : )
That's for people OUTSIDE the Wall Street Whiners encampment. Inside it's considerably much lower.
Looking@ the tea baggers i thought it was 2
Yes, starting with our "leaders."
Be on the lookout for commercial brainwash plots on TV. They are written into nearly every scene of nearly every show. Most cater to network sponsors, coorporate partners, and parent companies. Especially commercial health care. In particular, high profit pharmaceuticals and excessive medical testing. These plugs are countless, calculated, and VERY well written. They have commercial brainwashing down to a science. DON'T FALL FOR IT. Get off the couch and take care of your own body the way nature intended. There is no substitute. If you must see a doctor, then DEMAND that he/she give you more than 5 minutes of their undivided attention. Otherwise, dispute their unreasonable charges. Be prepared with written questions about your condition and get them answered one at a time. If they refuse, then dispute their unreasonable charges. If they prescribe excessive medical testing, then ask if they personally own the equipment or if they are paid a commission for each test. If they find nothing new or signifigant, then dispute their unreasonable charges. If they prescribe a pharmaceutical, then ask for a generic. Better yet, concider a change in lifestyle or simple tolerance. If they still recommend the name brand pharmaceutical, then ask about any financial ties or conflict of interest. If they get offended, then dispute their unreasonable charges and consider a new doctor. If you must drug away your sniffles, worries, jitters, aches, and pains, then at least do your homework. Be aware of the possible side-effects ahead of time. Don't be surprised to find yourself back a week or two later feeling worse. In which case, you should dispute their unreasonable charges. If you are diagnosed with another medical condition, then ask your doctor what he/she has done to rule out those possible side-effects. Otherwise, dispute their unreasonable charges. Don't let any greedy doctor treat you like a number, make you wait an hour, or rush you out of their office. Otherwise, dispute their unreasonable charges. Don't fall for this CRAP that doctors have no choice but to over-book their time or over-charge their patients because of a high overhead. ITS A LIE. YOUR DOCTOR IS MOST LIKELY A MULTI-MILLIONAIRE. The same goes for their bogus claim to over-test so many of their patients because they are afraid of missing something and being sued for it. THAT IS ANOTHER FLAT-OUT LIE. Afterall, if this were true, then it would only explain some of the unnecessary testing. NOT THE OBSCENE CHARGES. It also wouldn't explain their own financial ties directly to the manufacturers of said testing equipment. Thats right. Most doctors hold stock in the very same companies that produce that equipment. Its another conflict of interest. So don't fall for their CRAP. Demand their undivided attention and respect. Afterall, they took an oath. If you have the opportunity before being admitted, then check the record of your hospital. Check to see if they have been investigated or sued for providing unnecessary treatment, excessive medical testing, or fraudulent billing. Dozens have already been caught doing so. Do all of the above regardless of your coverage. Don't force your employer to cover the obscene and often fraudulent charges of a corrupt health care industry. By doing so, you make the problem worse. Keep your guard up when watching ANY talk show. These people are not your friends. They are not your advocates. They are paid actors hired to get your attention and your money. Some of them are also executive producers (Oprah Winfrey, Ellen Degeneres, and Dr Phil.). Nearly every word, smile, and stupid joke is rehearsed ahead of time. Including those which take place so often during what appear to be 'technical oversights' (Today Show. Even their stage hands are mixed in behind the scenes so that you can hear them laugh at every stupid joke.). Its all fake. Its all calculated. These people are not trying to make the world a happy place. They are trying to entertain you only because their marketing studies have shown that you are more likely to drop your guard and support their sponsors. Nearly every segment is about marketing some over-priced product or service. They will use any excuse to plug a gadget, fashion item, travel destonation, credit card, university, drug, medical test, surgical procedure, movie, TV show, book, magazine, song, website, ect. Almost all of it over-priced. Almost all of it resulting in higher profits for their sponsors, partners, and parent companies. DON'T FALL FOR IT.
Thought I was the only one that noticed!