Forum Post: Deserving
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 12, 2011, 2:14 p.m. EST by MaerF0x0
(15)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
What do you deserve? At what point have you be given what you deserve.. So many are saying I deserve a Home.. nice, but be specific and realistic (ie match the economics of scarcity). Does deserving a home mean a bed and a roof, but sharing said roof with 5 people, or maybe it means 100sqft per person etc.. Does deserving an education mean till highschool, or access to free books (libraries) or does it mean a $50,000 degree (yes, it may actually cost that much to teach you) ?
Does deserving healthcare mean Universal healthcare no matter how "stupid" you are? I dont mean dumb people dont deserve care, but lets say you were mountain biking with no helmet, or boxing with your buddies, or [insert, you should have known better situation]?
Does deserving food mean rice and beans or steak and pizzas?
I hope you get my drift, maybe we can talk about Levels of deserving and earning it...
I think many people are taking my post to mean that you "do not deserve". Its interesting how defensive some are.
what I'm implying is that statements like "I deserve Healthcare" lacks a great amount of detailed required to allow someone to know if they agree or not. I do not agree that someone who smoked their whole life deserves cancer treatment (assuming a scarcity in heathcare, indicating that there has to be a choice made btwn having the doctor do something else with the time) .
Similarly when someone says "We deserve education!" . I probably agree, until you start talking about Free PhD programs that doesn't (or may not) contribute any good to mankind. Why should your butt be taking up one of a limited number of seats in a university. Only 100 seats in the class means that we should allocate those 100 to those who will help mankind the most. Some unintelligent people may only deserve a certain level of effort. Should a Famous doctor spend 1000s of hours teaching somone who may never understand string theory (or whatever) or should the Famous Doctor spend the time teaching 10-100 intelligent students who will get it faster?
The whole "I deserve X" needs to be tempered against scarcity. And I agree that food is not scarce in our current system, it was merely a supposition.
this is not about what we deserve. This is about a criminal caste system, which does not deserve to continue to exist.
I hope you get my drift. your spinning this to blame the victims, and trolling, and there is no reason to entertain this trolling with attempts to converse.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=169262663125231#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=165096780208486 V.I.I.R.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=168277696557061
University Project First Steps
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=168279776556853
University Project Brainstorm
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=168142193237278
NICE University
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=167877999930364
Psychonautics Textbook
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=167448986639932
Socratic Method
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166330673418430
Different Kinds of Geothermal Power
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166259990092165
Common Myths and Misconceptions About Geothermal Power
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166255476759283
Zero Carbon Cities
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166254060092758
Energy cost Benefit Analysis
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166057976779033
Applications In Practice and Theory for Arcologies
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=166041926780638
Mega Scale Engineering Criteria
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=docs#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=163547577030073
main Problems Clusters
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=169262663125231#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=165334013518096
sugestions on how to proceed
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=169262663125231#!/home.php?sk=group_163532010364963&view=doc&id=165099426874888
WAR vs Economic Social Justice
I hope you really dont feel i am trolling. What i am railing against is what appears to be a lack of rigor to the argument. Nonetheless you have provided a tonne of materials, I will read them try to understand it. Thanks for working through this with me.
We are tired of the lie that universal health care and 'free' higher education are ridiculous pipe dreams, when in fact the U.S. is one of the only countries that does not offer those things to their citizens. We are tired of wages that stagnate or slide downward while prices for everything continuously rise, and while the rich become continuously richer, with the complicity of our bought-and-paid-for elected officials. Yes, all Americans deserve the basic dignity of the ability to make a true living wage, to remain healthy without going into heavy debt, and to pursue a better life through education, in a country with such staggering wealth. I, by the way, have what used to be considered a "good" job, and make a salary that my father could only have dreamt of, but struggle to live nearly as well as he was able to in fairer times. There is no good reason why any of us should tolerate the inequity and corruption in our system, and it is time for us to stand up and demand what, yes, we deserve.
You're right that they're not pipe dreams and totally achievable. However you also need to accept what comes with it. I have heard (admittedly anecdotal) that in many European nations the tax rates are very high, so they have to accept much lower standards of living in terms of stuff. As far as i can tell Americans LOVE stuff. Can you do with a smaller home, and fewer upgrades to your technology and a mortgage that is multi-generational? These are realities of some of the nations that you're idealizing by saying "other nations have these" ...
Actually I've lived briefly in Europe, and have in-laws there and in some poorer countries. The ones in Europe who are the equivalent of "middle class", own their home (yes, they received a small government subsidy as a young couple with children to help with the down payment), travel often to other countries where they have family, have their children in excellent pre- and grammar schools, enjoy the nationalized health care and know that their children will be able to attend university if they so choose (of course they have to get the grades and pass the tests). The husband works in his own small business, while the wife currently does not work. Our in-laws in the poorer nation, while not wealthy, are all in good health due to the nationalized health care available to them, and go to school through college. They eat excellent locally grown food, and treat visitors like royalty despite their relatively meager income. You can see the lower stress levels amongst all of these people due to the lack of dread regarding health care and housing, in their leaner bodies and glowing, healthy looking skin. I'm NOT idealizing any of these other countries at all, trust me, I just believe and KNOW that we as working Americans should be able to have these things, but we have allowed crooked big money hustlers and bought politicians to sell us a bill of goods while they pocket the vast majority if the wealth of this great country, that by the way, I love with all my heart. We can be so much greater than we are, but we will have to stand up and demand it.
I guess i have a hard time relating because for me (im canadian, and university education), these things have always been either a given, or well within the reaches of those with an inkling of drive. But also do not idealize our system, what follows is a common joke up here. My friend goes to the vet because his dog is sick. The vet checks him out and comes to the conclusion that he needs an MRI. My friend sick with sadness says, "how long will he have to wait'? The vet says "3 days".
The joke lies in the fact that dying people wait months for work to be done to them because the system is overloaded with currently dying people vs suffering for months... But your cat (plus your cash) can get any thing done immediately.
While many of you are denied healthcare, those who have it, most likely have the best in the world.
Exactly, but they need a comprehensive strategy that implements all their demands at the same time, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to be 1 of 100,000 people needed to support a Presidential Candidate – myself – at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
You have a democratic right to protest. You also have a democratic right to work really hard and make a lot of money if you'd like.
Why want to limit the money some make? If someone has earned it legally, then its their right to keep it. Our forefathers fought for freedom from an intrusive government. No one is entitled to anything - you have to work for it.
Ah-ha, a critical thinker looking for input! Excellent. Rather than just "deserve" let's join another word that is similar. "Entitlement". Now, there are other un addressed dynamics as well; in the human realm we have 2 other words. "wants & needs". Wants and needs are blanced against or with deserving and entitlement dependent on conditions physical and social. In biology its all hindsight so they say that everything which survived deserved to do so because of its behaviors or conditions. Organisms usually have very little sway over the larger set of conditions. Human society, with social contracts, steps away from that somewhat, semantics are used by social elite and tools corporate to confuse the relative concepts towards selecting the right action for survival. Therein is the justification for the breakdown above. Basically any confusion between wants and needs can cause an un met need. Some needs are vital. Without that need fulfilled, the living organism expires. American media and corporate influence under the direction of infiltrating entities with sophisticated knowledge of human psychology have been causing deep confusion and misdirection for generations of Americans. ENTITLEMENT: A social concept of ownership. EARNINGS: A corporate bookeeping term. To deserve is to earn in the world of biology, so your focus is valid and relative. We have a situation which enables those willing to do the bidding of things not human, incorporated of humans that have isolated themselves from accountability with the blessings of government power, military power created under the vested authority of social contract. GREAT THREAD because it opens the door to how media and corporations have mislead and created confusion where biologically there should be none, which clearly determines behaviors that are going to allow survival, IF we are survivors.
Please discuss your justification that anyone "deserves" anything more than anyone else.
More results coming from their efforts? If I make 10 shirts I feel I deserve more.. If I am better behaved in some way I deserve more (eg, not murderous, lying etc). I think there are some ingrained feelings of when someone deserves more...
Deserve more of what? Do you want some idol that you can parade around to show that you are the best "shirt maker"? If so, then you are part of the problem that has created the ill, corrupt society that we live in. If you are so great at making shirts then perhaps you can teach others your ways so that there will be enough shirts for everyone. Would that be enough for you. Look at the tag on your shirt and consider the life of the person who made it. They are your slave and you are someone else's. Money blinds us to this fact.
I dont want some idol. But I may feel that I deserve more of what is scarce if I am helping to end other relative scarcities. If I'm a super productive shirtmaker but everyone is flush with shirts, then no one will care if I make shirts. Theres also a hierarchy of needs, if everyone finds food dear, but the nation is flush with Art, then I'll really want some food and the food producers will be able to trade for what they would like which is scarce (maybe computers or something) ...
Interestingly enough, If jobs are scarce and we want them real bad, then we are all beck and call to the job makers. Maybe the real solution is to not want a job and to provide your own needs directly vs through a medium of cash or a job which abstracts your production from hard goods and real needs to solitary needs of a "business".
If something is scarce it should be equally rationed and conserved until a substitution can be found. Food is not scarce. Starvation is a product of corruption. Why would any one producer be more entitled to a scarce commodity than another?
Technology is the impetus for the dawning of the new era. For the first time all of humanity can instantaneously communicate on a global scale. We can control our birth rate with the use of safe effective birth control. We have the resources to feed and house the world’s population. Most all human suffering is man made or worsened by greed and lack of empathy. Technology has also given us the ability choose our destiny. We can continue the current trajectory: depletion of resources, growing inequalities and war. Or, we can choose a new way.
The path to enlightenment, equality, and sustenance is attainable with a united movement. Part of that movement is time bank. Time bank is a network of humanity. Organized on line. Completely transparent. All inclusive. Hour in. Hour out. That’s it. No person’s hour is more or less valuable than another.
A worldwide time bank can be started now. With enough participation it can catalyze the transition from the current corrupt monetary system to a society where money is irrelevant and each person is valued. Fear and greed will paralyze this movement. Hope and imagination can propel it.
Time is the Substance from which I am made. – Jorge Luis Borges
Coreupt wrote: Technology is the impetus for the dawning of the new era.END------
Definition of IMPETUS a (1) : a driving force : impulse (2) : incentive, stimulus b : stimulation or encouragement resulting in increased activity
Perhaps. -------
Coreupt wrote: Time bank is a network of humanity.END------
But considering that corporations want to dominate, "Time bank" uses site software to make profits that obsolete my browser, making it so I cannot communicate with them. For them to be real they need to go back in time to where server software for web sites is not designed for "bells and whistles" that accomodate maxmum advertising, and downgrade their site so people can access it.
This is more important with each day as people must spend their money on needs of living. Another .org that shot itself in the foot with the internet. Please communicate to them this fact, because I cannot. But, only if you have the time:)
Yes, let's talk about deserving and earning.
Read this post and then come back and give your input:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/bank-of-america-executives-get-11-million-golden-h/