Forum Post: Demands - A thought
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 7, 2011, 12:54 p.m. EST by joeknows
(8)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The demands listed in a forum on this site are drastic and unrealistic, and if they were brought to the table in an organized way, would be laughed at. the movement itself is a sign of change. "Movements aren't tidy. They aren't organized. They unleash energy. They inspire ordinary people to leave their daily routines and do extraordinary things. They inspire; they insult; they mortify. They disrupt business as usual. And if they touch a chord, they grow, and they force politicians and citizens to decide." As with many movements in the past, like the civil rights movement, the best plan of action is to focus on one primary goal. In the past it was to give equal rights to african americans and to women. This movement ought to focus on ONE primary interest. Is it debt? Is it jobs? Is it the corporations/wall street? I understand that these issues are all related, but in terms of a solution, the occupy movement ought to focus on one cohesive goal, so that when we ARE sitting at the negotiating table we aren't trying to change the ENTIRE world.
"If the best people can come up with is a list of utopian liberal ideals that can't practically be acted on in the near future or within any political reality, this movement will go nowhere. Likewise, I believe the way this 'list of demands' was spread virally and warped by the media is indicative of how important it is to arrive at a real list of demands, and soon."
Totally agree
I haven't read all of the demands but not all of them are unrealistic. Some of them already exist in other industrialized nations or even local governments.
Although, I think given the sheer number of people involved things will get divisive once you start trying to focus on one primary interest instead of the primary purpose. But there is some overlap that could result in some overarching themes.
In my opinion, this is about ethical capitalism. A political-economic structure that is competitive in private dealings but compassionate about the collective welfare of others. The fatalist mindset that nothing can be done to help others has to stop.
take "the fed" out? and then what? do you understand all the functions of a federal government?
one example: no federal govt...no national security.
if you were to abolish the federal govt we would be even worse off than we are now.
im the last person who will stand up for big govt, im a communalist at heart, but i also realize that the federal govt can only do with what it has. the bailout was a huge mistake, and everyone knows that. even joe biden admitted that the bailout was a mistake because it didnt actually make the banks CHANGE anything. we learn from our mistakes. drastic changes, like getting rid of the fed, are unrealistic and counter-productive. how about, incentives to employers to hire students right out of college? how about the minimum wage is changed to reflect the cost of living? how about the banks need to change their policies and start paying back their bailout $? how about some constructive ideas that will actually help the people hurt the most...instead of hurting more.
HAHAHA wow you think that the fed is the federal government? DO you know what the federal reserve is? That is "the fed" not the federal government. The saddest part about your response is you actually believed i meant something that has to do with the federal government. NO! The federal reserve is not part of our government. IT is a central bank with private shareholders who print the currency for the united states and loan it to the government, china, other countries, banks, and corporations. Wall street was not bailed out by the government, they were bailed out by the federal reserve and the government is doing nothing about it!
i know all about the federal reserve and how it functions. i misinterpreted. my mistake for translating incorrectly. im not a native english speaker. your point about the fed is moot. the fed itself, and congress are already projecting to dissolve the reserve within 5 years. read the news.
Here's one story that may enlighten you:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/fed-will-be-dissolved-within-five-years
No they aren't? that says nothing of the sort and has no stated facts btw (the link you posted) congress may be trying to push forth some legislation to end the fed but that means nothing. The federal reserve won't be ended by just congress, they will need more than one branch of government to end it, and obama won't do that, and neither will congress. Also you can't dissolve the fed without proposing a new currency idea, they print our money... the federal government gets all of their money from the federal reserve right now. They print and spend thats what they do, the federal government has to cut spending before the fed can be dissolved and that isn't happening.
thats one link. keep reading about it. representatives of the federal reserve, past and present, have both admitted that it is an anachronistic system. and you're absolutely right....you cant get rid of the fed until a new system is in place.
the fed. if you do not take care of the fed nothing will change! They own our currency and they own us, they are selling the united states to the highest bidders and if you don't take the fed out then nothing will change, ever.
youre right, commodity fetishism isn't helping, and we can thank edward bernays and his uncle sigmund freud for that. together, they created the PR industry and effectively allowed corporate america to steamroll over consumers with emotionally captivating imagery/products. but i ask you, are you going to throw out the computer on which you're typing these comments? are you going to give away your car? your ipod? your smart phone? a lot of people have a problem separating their ideals from their reality. we enjoy these products. we benefit from having access to these products because they make living easier. people may think they dont want these corporations to have so much wealth, but what if they didn't. what if you could ONLY buy an Apple computer. What if there was no free competition? commodity fetishism, at this point, is a response to the economy weve been living within for 60+ years. manufacturers, advertising agencies, designers, marketing companies, etc employ thousands upon thousands of people. if we got rid of the apparatus that is currently in place, we'd be worse off than before. the reason for this, is that we do not have a functional cohesive way to move from where we are NOW to where we want to be.
I really think more people should look into this tightened up more realistic list of demands. http://www.knowmore.org/wiki/index.php?title=A_Proposed_List_of_Demands
great article, good, cohesive, sound ideas. thanks for sharing this!
http://www.knowmore.org/wiki/index.php?title=A_Proposed_List_of_Demands
it isnt official, and i agree, there ought not be an official list of demands anyway; we arent terrorists. however, the cozy relationship between govt and corps isnt going to end with this movement, and if fact, it wont ever end. its a necessary aspect of our economic system. and, until we have a better system to replace it, the current system will continue to operate. the occupy movement is simply a physical show of dissent. it has no solution.
I don't think that is a formal list of demands. As far as I know, there are none, and there shouldn't be--this would be divisive. I think right now we can really all rally behind ending the cozy relationship of our government with corporate. That's what got us into this mess.
True!! But we also need to examine the healthy relationship we (all) have with corporations and consumerism. Example: the emotional connection people have with Apple products. Commodity fetishism ain't helpin' either.
I mean, I agree that Americans are obsessed with consumerism, but that is more of a social issue than an economic issue. Corporations themselves are not bad--they create jobs, capital, goods and services--but when they start controlling our government with billions of dollars of campaign donations and lobbying, and when our politicians shamelessly accept these payoffs and draft legislation in THEIR best interest and not ours, THAT is when we have a problem. THAT is what is happening right now. I love that people are getting out there and protesting, because it has started a national dialogue and people are starting to wake up, but what we really need to do is vote out the corrupt weasels that we put in Congress in the first place.
I agree. Though I think the common thread is that corporations have too much control and too much leeway.
It's the ENTIRE CULTURAL HEGEMONY that is the adversary. Talk about a Leviathan!
But, "there is no such thing as a hopeless situation" (Marx).