Forum Post: CONFIRMED: we are being hijacked
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 17, 2011, 1:37 p.m. EST by Worker
(9)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Moveon is pretty much taking over this and making it into Obama's re-election campaign. If we don't prevent takeover now we will be helping the same people we are against. Spread the word /end-rant
what a bunch of nonsense, just focus on the core message of an end to the system of legalized corruption, The fact is right now there isn't a real viable choice except for Obama. The real problem is congress, thats where the corruption lives and breeds election after elections
An Open Letter to Occupy Wall Street Protesters
Congratulations! You are successfully focusing public attention on the root cause of our political ills. Moreover, you are doing so with dignity and grace -- qualities which will not only influence more people, but make it far harder for the Establishment and their political agents to employ their normal repressive methods. You occupy the moral high ground; do not give it up no matter the provocation.
But, as surely you must know, this act is only the first in a long drama. The system you protest is robust and designed to withstand challenge. The banks and corporations from whom you wish to wrest power are well organized and have, over many long years, fully institutionalized their political and social controls. Our adversaries have waged class war for well over a century, have much invested, and everything to lose -- a long and difficult struggle lies ahead.
With this in mind, now is the time to consider and shape a second act, even as the first continues to unfold. To be successful, this act must not only engender widespread protest but also dramatically enumerate that discontent. Or else, as is happening already, your efforts will simply be dismissed as theatric, but essentially meaningless, commentary by an insignificant fringe of malcontents.
And therein lies the essential contradiction -- the only undeniable measure of and outlet for public discontent is the ballot box. Yet elite control of both political parties makes this a futile exercise. Past well-organized and powerful protest movements were defused and broken by an electoral process dominated by party candidates. Third parties have, historically, been marginalized and had little practical effect. Moreover, time is short -- the next election is barely a year away.
But what might happen if you inject some unpredictability into this well ordered system? If you explicitly reject both party's candidates? What will their media report on election night if millions of us join your protest by writing in "None of the Above" on our ballots?
What might happen indeed...
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: One of the main pillars of Conservative propaganda is that both parties are the same. Nothing they say is further from the truth. It is an insidious lie intended to demoralize progressives, and discourage them from voting. Do not fall for this canard, because if both parties are the same, there is no hope for change, and therefore no reason to vote. The truth is that there is a difference between the parties. A stark difference! One party works for the rich, the other party works for all Americans. One party takes money from the needy to feed the greedy, and the other party takes money from the greedy to feed the needy. One party has plans and policies to create jobs, and the other party has a long list of lame excuses for not doing anything. Liberals want to change things. Conservatives want things to stay the same. There is a difference. One party wants to tax the rich, and the other party wants to tax the poor. One party wants to destroy Unions, and the other party wants to support them. One party supports the Occupation of Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to rebuild America, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to provide health care for all, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to regulate Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One Party wants to end the wars; the other party wants them to go on forever. There is a difference. One party is Myopic, and the other party is Far Sighted. One party wants to help the Middle Class, and the other party is at war with the Middle Class. One party wants to fire Teachers, and the other party wants to hire them. One party wants to create more jobs in America, and the other party wants to create more jobs in Asia. There is a difference. One party wants to protect pensions, and the other party wants to loot them. One party has a heart, and the other party has Ann Coulter. One party protects the right bear Arms, and the other party protects the right of freedom of assembly. One party believes that the only role for the Government is to provide for the common defense, and the other party believes that the Government should also promote the general Welfare. There is a difference, and anybody that tells you there is no difference between the parties is simply not conversant with reality. In addition, anyone that blames the Democrats for the current state of affairs has no understanding of who controls the Government. One Party has the Presidency, and the other party has the Majority in the House, controls the Senate, has a majority on the Supreme Court, and is responsible for current economic policy. So, if you’re angry, and you want to start a real fight, I submit that we should start a real fight with the Conservatives! America has a Two Party System. One party is clearly on your side, the other party thinks you’re and Anti-American mob. At some point in time you’re going to have to pick one. Choose wisely, your future is at stake
But both parties are the same. Obama's biggest contributor is Goldman Sachs. And the repugs as you know, are worse.
by blaming both sides and not voting you are doing exactly what republicans want
And elite interests want... find real candidates and spend time doing retail politics for them. Arguing about presidents who are forced to be moderate because of a majoritarian electoral system is a non-starter.
Give me someone worth voting for and I will vote. Obama's biggest donor is Goldman Sachs. And don't get me started on the repugs. By the way, I did vote for O in 08--Based on what has been proven to be, empty promises. And zero change.
this is pure BS Obama's biggest single group was the University of California. What Goldman Sacs is it the most powerful of the financial robber Barons. They were able to control Obama by pulling the trigger on the economy (read Matt Tabbi's rolling stone piece on that) essentially blackmailing the country into using them because they are the only ones who know how to keep the spiderweb of this fake economy intact and functioning. Goldman Sac is always at the table no matter who is in office. Its built into the system of corruption. So to blame "Obama" for that or for not being some magic negro messiah who should snap his fingers and fix that system of corruption is naive and stupid
voting is an easy cop-out... so is your argument against presidential candidates... do the hard work... run for Congress or work your butt off for one that is not an establishment candidate
Which party is for Americans?
NEITHER existing party is good for America - we need a third party, the Moderate Party, where the focus is on equality of opportunity, fair dealing, strengthening the middle class (instead of destroying it from both sides) and education education education.
It was a rhetorical question. I like the idea of a Occupy convention July 4, 2012 and an Occupy party although it could be called something else. Give me some reason to go to the polls in 2012.
iill let you decide good luck
All I want is a fiscally conservative government (no expensive and immoral wars, no rise in taxes) that stays out of my personal life (i.e., I can marry whomever I want, have control over my body, etc.). Don't try to tell me either party accomplishes all that.
I will say this: I've had it up to here with "hope" and "change." I never thought anybody could make Bush look good, but I'll be damned if I vote for Obama.
You are overreacting
If our demands are met by Obama's re-election what does it matter? That's what we wanted remember? We want our demands implemented. If he can do it then let him get his re-election if he's willing to get our demands in.
Are you kidding? You want more of Obama's promises?
Yes and soon the the country will want him 4 more years. Mark my words.
Uh, why? He hasn't fulfilled any of his promises.
actually he has like health care reform and financial reform. Pulling out troops of Iraq (to be finished dec 31, 2011). I don't blame you though we are all conditioned to believe politicians don't fulfill promises.
Oh god... you've got to be kidding. We have military bases in 92% of countries around the world. We are still in Iraq, and even when we leave, there will STILL be troops there. What about Afghanistan? What about his promise to keep lobbyists out of Washington? You know, the thing that we are all fighting against in this movement? Remember?
Because I still believe in him. He will be coming along. The alternative is so FAR worse in the GOP. I can see me voting for a third candidate. Later, maybe Wednesday I am going to find the profiles of 3rd party candidates and see if any or worthy of OWS support. But, if there isn't it has to be Obama.
Hey he'll come around he has too. Iraq will not have a US soul left after Dec 31, 2011 (the Iraq gov wouldn't give immunity to US trainers). 92% !! wow that's high and I don't believe you. You've got to produce the source for that number.
I know what we are fighting for: get the money out of politics. Lets see what his move is. He's better than any GOP candidate.
Gerryb you lost your credibility when you cited Ron Paul.
Don't believe the US has a military presence in 150+ countries? Let me google that for you http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+many+countries+does+the+US+have+bases+in&l=1 Ron Paul talks about this all the time and closing these bases down and bringing the troops home
My point is that he can't be trusted... because he's bought :(
Why are you so willing to give him yet another chance?
And this is all part of the strategy. While I doubt OWS would have full blown support for him they will say "oh well, he's the better of the 2 evils. Lets support him" - thus he becomes the center of the movement, promises he will help you, and wins 4 more years. And the useful idiots who vote for him again will get fooled twice.
Double facepalm. Lay off the Obama Koolaid. He was in the tank for Wall Street from Day One.
WOW...facepalm
You seriously believe that can happen? He suddenly reinvents himself and decides to work for the common man?
the point is what if he does? then what? You write as though you assume he won't. But you don't know.
Sure. Anything is possible.
True, thee is no reason to believe Obama will change in any way, just look at his actions. He has received more campaign contributions from wall street than any other politician. He executes American citizens without due process. The guy won the Nobel peace prize and has gotten us into two more wars. He is not going to change.
only you believe he executed someone without due process go ask anyone in America if we should have killed a terrorist without due process.
more campaign contributions? yes last election but this election he has less than romney.
And I am proud to support the Libyan Rebels they deserved our help. I don't know where you got that one "more" wars since he inherited Iraq and Afghanistan.
Go cry yourself a river.
Terrorists are not American citizens. Alwaki was an American citizen and he should have been tried, not just killed. Obama can name anyone a threat to national security and have them killed.
Obama's complete disregard for the constitution is unforgivable. He completely circumvented Congress to drop bombs on people that were no threat to us. Why was it so urgent to help these "rebels" but not a finger has been lifted to help the people of Syria? You are aware that there were former insurgents among the "rebels", even Al Quaeda members, do we really want to be on the side of these people?
He got us involved in Libya and now he is sending troops to Africa. I thought he promised to bring the troops home? Or maybe he just meant his home of Africa?
"Or maybe he just meant his home of Africa?" How is that not racist? My fucking God only on the right do they think that's not racist. Because he's black his home is in africa? He's an American plain and simple.
See your true racist colors are showing.
160 troops to catch the worst criminal since Hitler? Easy. Haha he had every right to use force for 60 days...and clearly congress agreed.
A terrorist who gave up his right to a fair trial when he tried killing American citizens. There's nothing much more than that to it. Your hatred for Obama is showing.
And just curious, how am i a racist?
So if you attempt to kill someone you automatically lose citizenship and can be killed with no consequences? Yeah, that's a country i want to live in! /sarc
was the use of bombs necessary ?
Was he going to turn himself in? You do know if we were going to arrest him we would have to invade Yemen because the government was incompetent. Then there would be a fire fight with our troops where they could get hurt and then he would probably die in the fighting anyways. Think before speaking.
If we can get withing arms reach to kill Bin Laden, we can do the same in Yemen. I am not saying Alwaki did not deserve to die but in this country, citizens are INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty.
there were no other means to deal with the situation than air strikes that accidentally killed innocent people ?
are you kidding? Obama's dependence on campaign financing from the 1% precludes his re-election meeting the demands of this movement. His involvement is indeed a hijacking. The success of this protest thus far has been largely because it decries both political parties and their representation of just a few powerful private interests. Obama's involvement would shift OWS into the partisan political game. OWS is metapartisan.
what if he takes public finance...just a what if. Don't assume he won't just what would your reaction be if he took public finance?
It wouldn't really make much of a difference because it wouldn't change the fact that his fellow party members in congress are still heavily influenced by a few powerful interest groups.
Don't assume that Herman Cain won't be the GOP candidate. That's a guy I can get behind. BTW, nobody is going to meet your "demands". Why should they? Who are you to "demand" things be done YOUR way?
Herman Cain EVEN worse. He wants more taxes and no abortion? GTFO with that guy. He's a former CEO do you think he's going to stand up to wallstreet? Hell no.
Nonsense?! Slavery was not abolished through elections. Unions were not built through elections. Civil rights were not won through elections. Rather hundreds of thousands of people put their very lives on the line in mass direct actions. I hope OWS is the beginning of that. Down with all capitalist parties, the Republicans and Democrats in particular.
Obama is a piece of shit.....so if Move On will read this....."Obama is a Piece of Shit"
Not surprised in the SLIGHTEST. This movement started as nothing but chaos, with no plan going forward. Just look at the tea party for heaven's sake and see where it's gotten them. We really need a good does of quality organization, otherwise we will be hijacked by God-knows-who!
Name one electable candidate for 2012 that will do better against the banks.
Sorry but "we" (as in me) are not against Obama.
You are lucky moveon is joining you want to say we are the 99% well 50% of the county are democrats why shouldn't progressives join in ? The other 50% are republicans, they're sitting at home calling you hippies and laughing at you. Strength in numbers...move on is progressive and they have been talking about all of these issues for the longest time. Republicans aren't likely to join up especially if they're teabaggers and brainwashed by fox news . Why would you not welcome their support????
Nobody can "hijack" an occupation. That is the beauty of its being constantly in public.
And you're an obvious paid troll trying to scare away conservatives who are curious as to what is going on over here. You haven't even posted in this thread after pretending to be a concerned OWSer.
Boycott imported goods!!! Buy Made in the USA
Obama and Moveon are part of the problem. Obama was the one who picked Geithner to run treasury, even though he was part of the group siding with the banks at the fed and wasn't paying his taxes. He also picked the GE (which paid 0 taxes) CEO to be in charge of his jobs program. In any case, it is not any particular individual who is being targeted, but the system which only allows individuals supported by deep pockets to get elected into office. We're better off with a billionaire who can't be bought being president than anyone who's raising millions of corporate dollars. Let's find own candidate to run for president instead of settling for the current crop, dems or reps, who we know will do more of the same.
focus on levers of power - campaign financing, lobbies, media. how our democracy has been privatized, stolen. we need free elections, citizens congress, indy media for all. change in the nature of state power. not possible to achieve economic justice or anything benign if we cant democratize our democracy. cash out. everyanybody in.
Just tonight on Chris Matthews he was discussing how the Democrats could take this over. I don't see it happening because we're too aware and opposed to it. Everyone saw happened to the tea parties and that was a great lesson.
Also, I was at Bank of America on saturday and the cops showed out for the bank. Apparently, they showed out for Citi as well. We must continue until this kind of behavior stops. The people fund the police and should be served by them. The corporations were preventing legitimate transactions and using a police state tactic to enforce them. We must continue. We must continue until women are no longer punched by police officers and people are no longer pepper sprayed indiscriminantly. We must continue until the police do not confiscate our property because we chose to excercise our first amendment rights.......
Did you all really think this was about politics....politicians....this is about justice and equality.
goverment and congres + the federal reserve + bankers owns this country because we let them do it...this by publiceye.org: Myth #4: The Federal Reserve is a privately owned bank out to make a profit at the taxpayers' expense.
please read bitcoin the answer
Just continue. Politicians are irrelevant until we make Wall Street irrelevant in politics. Let us take help where we can get it but understand this: Obama does not speak for us ubtil he repudiates all support from Wall Street and makes his campaign truly about the people. The only way to victory is to continue to fight. It may take awhile but we must continue to fight or we will lose.
This is not about Obama. Vote for him in swing states, but vote your consious everywhere else. Make your voice heard.
They are an Obama front group, don't forget. We can work with them, but remember that our message must be progressive, mainstream enlightenment progressive. John Dewey is smiling.
Look if this is about the 99% then I welcome Obama supporters even though I don't support him anymore due to his actions. You can't leave anyone out and all should have there say and be able to post their views. We are all in this together.
An Open Letter to Occupy Wall Street Protesters
Congratulations! You are successfully focusing public attention on the root cause of our political ills. Moreover, you are doing so with dignity and grace -- qualities which will not only influence more people, but make it far harder for the Establishment and their political agents to employ their normal repressive methods. You occupy the moral high ground; do not give it up no matter the provocation.
But, as surely you must know, this act is only the first in a long drama. The system you protest is robust and designed to withstand challenge. The banks and corporations from whom you wish to wrest power are well organized and have, over many long years, fully institutionalized their political and social controls. Our adversaries have waged class war for well over a century, have much invested, and everything to lose -- a long and difficult struggle lies ahead.
With this in mind, now is the time to consider and shape a second act, even as the first continues to unfold. To be successful, this act must not only engender widespread protest but also dramatically enumerate that discontent. Or else, as is happening already, your efforts will simply be dismissed as theatric, but essentially meaningless, commentary by an insignificant fringe of malcontents.
And therein lies the essential contradiction -- the only undeniable measure of and outlet for public discontent is the ballot box. Yet elite control of both political parties makes this a futile exercise. Past well-organized and powerful protest movements were defused and broken by an electoral process dominated by party candidates. Third parties have, historically, been marginalized and had little practical effect. Moreover, time is short -- the next election is barely a year away.
But what might happen if you inject some unpredictability into this well ordered system? If you explicitly reject both party's candidates? What will their media report on election night if millions of us join your protest by writing in "None of the Above" on our ballots?
What might happen indeed...
Do not give this forum post anymore time. Concentrate on OWS objectives. Do not take time away from objectives to argue amongst each other. "United, we'll never be divided"
yup, i just got a query asking if i support OWS.
Newsflash!!!!!!! Everybody campaigning will have this on their agenda!! Its a hot topic.stay out of the two party if you feel inclined to vote for these issues keep it out of the big politics. Lets get a little guy in office!!
Worker,
Can you provide some examples of where this is happening? Where did you see this:
"Moveon is pretty much taking over this and making it into Obama's re-election campaign"
occurring.
Worker - I agree ... this can't be about politics!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-cannot-become-the-lefts-version-of-the-tea-part/
A Movement Too Big to Fail Oct 17, 2011
"There is no danger that the protesters who have occupied squares, parks and plazas across the nation in defiance of the corporate state will be co-opted by the Democratic Party or groups like MoveOn. The faux liberal reformers, whose abject failure to stand up for the rights of the poor and the working class, have signed on to this movement because they fear becoming irrelevant. ... "
A Movement Too Big to Fail Oct 17, 2011 By Chris Hedges http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/a_movement_too_big_to_fail_20111017/
i agee
close Guantanamo bring the troops home
create public health care
move on
Disavow moveon and Obama....or you can forget it.
There were massive OWS protests in the capitals of other countries; e.g., London, Rome, Berlin, Tokyo, etc. but not right here in the U.S. What's wrong with that picture? Conspicuous by its absence is the OWS call to march on Washington in massive numbers? That is why groups like MoveOn associate the OWS as young Democratic Party activists because OWS does not want to offend the current administration in Washington.
Agreed. The next occupy should be at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. OWS has accomplished something big - everywhere people are talking in the country about money corrupting the system. Now lets move to the center of power and make our voices heard.
We'll just start another protest.
"Hope" was a lie all along.
"Change" was also a lie. His education is also a lie, or he would've forced Congress to obey Article V - we can't trust Obama for a second.
No, Obama did change things, just not for the better.
Is there an alternative that is better?
the fact that the political parties choose the running mates and not the people directly, no, there is no alternative other than absolute solidarity which is a pipe dream. Until we can all elect an average joe, we're screwed.
I mean having marches there, obviously
Obama or Romney or Cain wont make a difference. If obama is reelected we can go to the whitehouse and make it damn clear we dont support his kowtowing to big business
Do you really think that will make a difference? He has already shown that he is willing to ignore the constitution. Where was the due process for alwaki? Hey, don't get me wrong, Alwaki was a piece of garbage but he deserved his day in court. Do you think it is beyond reason to think that Obama would trump up some charge against protesters?
This movement has to completely disavow any affiliation with Obama, Moveon.org or any radical fringe group. They have to do so not in a meek voice but in ONE voice.
That's why getting everyone on board with a particular message is crucial. We're still a forming group but we need to start coming together better, and I think the desire for equal morality, ethics, and logic is what we need to aim at. We need to remove the hypocrisy.
It is not just republicans, it is both parties. The time for good ole boy politics is at its end. People are tired of their voices being ignored. Does anyone know what the "leadership" of the movement consists of? Who are the primary organizers and motivators?
Do you really think he would care? Look at the money he gets from wall street and corporations.
Move On: Fuck Off!!!
MO-FO - nice!
ahahaha! +1
how are they doing this?
Obama's PR guy told the AP reporters that Obama would use our ideals as the basis of his next lie campaign. Hope will turn into 99%
shit!
The group that organized this..Adbusters is from Canada. They are openly anti-capitalists. They started OWS.
http://www.adbusters.org/about/adbusters
http://activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/o/36-adbusters
However I see that the movement has attracted more then the anti-capitalists crowd. I'm not sure they counted on that. Now the people are taking notice of the movement. I am not surprised to see other political types try and step in. When they unleash the “real” agenda, I think most PEOPLE involved in this movement will recognize that. I have witnessed the awakening of many people, who came here for information.
Anti-Capitalist crowd isn't necessarily a "bad" crowd...
I never said it was. However if they become a "disruptive" crowd. That would not be good.
I agree, like a lot of the "anarchists" (the ones who say they are and go out and throw stuff/ blow stuff up everywhere)
Yes, perhaps I should have been more clear.
Vote down the truth? Yea the spin machine at work.