Forum Post: Clearly stated goals or demands
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 22, 2011, 3:08 p.m. EST by zapschaft
(95)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Glad to see people finally getting motivated about doing something. Seems most of the ideas presented by this social change movement focus on the symptom not the actual problem. Huge monopolistic corporations, corrupt politicians, banks are all just a symptom of a larger problem. Most of you would say that problem is capitalism, which still doesn’t do enough to identify the problem. Capitalism as the problem is much too vague. What specifically about capitalism could be causing the problem? Can anyone answer that one?
What allows corporations to monopolize? Corrupts politicians? Do you think human beings are born greedy? Or are they maybe conditioned to be this way by our fantasy of an economic system? I would place my bet on the latter.
Seems nobody has a plan or even half a plan of what they are trying to accomplish. You say you hate capitalism and want to take back our country, but what will you replace capitalism with? The sooner someone comes up with a halfway coherent replacement of fiat currency capitalism, the sooner change will come. Here’s an idea:
How about publicly stating a goal such as this:
The abolition of commericial banks and usury and the formation of a congressional bank that makes incremental loans to people interest free by contract of law. The loans start out small and grow with each person’s ability to pay them back.
And to anyone who wants to counter this argument by saying" Who will be willing to lend out money at zero percent interest." Nobody should be payed interest on money that is printed out of thin air, and especially not payed interest on money they don't have to begin with! (Fractional reserve banking). Not to delude myself, but I completely destroy this argument logically in my book under the chapter ""Risk", the destroyer of facts". In fact, I think it is only appropriate that I post that chapter here to clear up any bullshit that might popup. Yes, the 99 percent are intimidated and just agree to false truth, or whatever illogical cockamamey idea a banker can come up with to justify charging interest on money they don't have. People need to collectively stop believing it. We did it before with the final rejection of the "devine right of kings", and we will likely do it again.
The problem really isn’t our government design. It is the means by which that gov has to operate, namely fiat currency. As long as money is backed by nothing, measuring nothing but our delusion of how much labor or product is worth, we will always wind up with recessions, depressions and angry starving people. If we back currency with time, however, you would not see these bubbles. Trouble is, people in America would have to voluntarily stop being delusional about price and use time as a measurement of value. I’m not sure they are ready to stop being delusional.
http://www.amazon.com/Transcendent-Economy-Exploring-existence-ebook/dp/B004TZ06YC
Many feel that we should draw up official demands but others hold to only the desire to continue protests against what we disagree with.
It is my belief that if OWS & supporters do not organize, joining their local GAs to have their voices and votes count, and come to a majority consensus of what we would like to see happen, then many if not a large percent of supporters will give up seeing no results of the movement. And those not yet on board will not take interest as well.
What good is it to complain, yet not offer a majority consensus of what we desire? What good is it to protest if we do not come together in true democracy, vote on that which we desire, and demand the changes that reflect true democracy and the right of the people to be heard? The right of the American majority's choices to be implemented into our society instead of allowing Government and Corporations to decide our fate?
Organization, and an agreed upon list of changes we desire to correct those things which we protest can only help to facilitate the changes we desire IMHO.
Its like a relationship of sorts, if you only sit and condemn a person for the things they do wrong, without telling them what it is you need to make things right, they may become bitter over the negativity and lack of positive direction and not desire change or be equipped with the knowledge of things needed to change and the relationship will have far less chance to survive and flourish.
Yes, they are extremely confused as to what exactly it is that is causing the problems. Private enterprise, free markets and our government design is not the problem. It is PRICE which is measure in fiat currency that caters to the delusions of human beings. Once you convert time in labor over to currency, chaos will always ensue. That's why I'm a huge advocate of time currency.
Agreed, and I particularly like the statement -- what will you replace capitalism with? -- so perhaps you would consider our group's proposal of an alternative online direct democracy of government and business at http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategically_weighted_policies_organizational_operating_structures_tactical_investment_procedures-448eo , hit the facebook “like” button if agreed, and then join our group's 20 members committed to that plan at http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
I've carefully devised a new idea for a social experiment, you might enjoy reading this book, totally applies to what you are trying to accomplish. I will email you a copy if you have time to read it.
http://books.google.com/books?id=LEacVLUyH4AC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Thanks, I put it on my reading list. Off hand, I like the sub-titles, particularly as it applies to create a Socioeconomic System mirroring "natural systems". I hope you'll join our group at http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/ so we can discuss it further, for there are always long-term alternatives to short-term problems, if we know where to find each other, agreed?
1.Take citizenship away from corporations.
Not a bad start, but I think some people are tired of paying fraudulent prices for everything like healthcare, mortgage, 120k for a condo the size of a closet, etc. 3000 dollars for 30 min in emergency room. Money is, or will be obsolete in the near future.