Forum Post: Civility Please
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 7, 2011, 10:59 a.m. EST by meep
(233)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
For everyone that loves the movement, please remember civility. War always leads to death, and to war over ideas only leads to the death of ideas. You cannot lead a man to wisdom if you stand where you are and shout, you must go to him, see where he is, and then walk with him on the hard road to see what you saw from where you were. If you cannot see his point of view, then there is no way to help him.
If you insult, belittle, attack, or declare the ignorance of others without teaching them, then you do not understand and do not speak for this movement.
We are all people, we all deserve respect, we all deserve your wisdom. Civility Please.
Take an economics class and learn something about the financial system and then you will be taken seriously. But anyone who is part of this movement who is taking coffee breaks at starbucks, checking their Facebook, and blogging from their iPad cannot be given respect.
Here is a lesson for you. Everything you have you can thank corporate america/wall street for, like it or not. Soon as those two things go away so does the mass production of the goods that this country has become used to.
I fail to see how this is a response to my post, but regardless, there are many things I have that are not the product of wall street or corporate America. My life, my liberty, and my companionship are at the top of that list, and among the most valuable possessions I own.
On the economic side of things, see my previous post http://occupywallst.org/forum/theory-community-not-communism/
Thank you for this. Angry, ad hominem attacks are increasingly the norm. Some of the posts should be eliminated outright--especially from the angry trolls who post "N-word" ugliness...
I'll be civil when they give me back my civil rights - repeal the Patriot Act! Save the 4th amendment!
so you tack on the patriot act I thought this was about the banks. great focus. that really gets results
You'll be civil when you want your civil rights back, because the harder you fight them the harder they will clench their fist. The deeper we draw the line in the sand the more solidly we divide ourselves, and the more animosity and intractability we create.
And if we don't fight at all, they win by default. No thanks.
First most of you are a bunch of idiots. The people I have seen at these protest look unemployable. It’s time to wake up put on your big boy/girl pants and start taking responsibility for yourself. Stop blaming others for your failures and get a job. Really get a job! If it means you have to stock shelves, flip burgers or wash cars, get a job. No one is entitled to anything but freedom. Get off your lazy asses and get a job. You don’t deserve to be given anything for free.
First most of you are a bunch of idiots. The people I have seen at these protest look unemployable. It’s time to wake up put on your big boy/girl pants and start taking responsibility for yourself. Stop blaming others for your failures and get a job. Really get a job! If it means you have to stock shelves, flip burgers or wash cars, get a job. No one is entitled to anything but freedom. Get off your lazy asses and get a job. You don’t deserve to be given anything for free.
First most of you are a bunch of idiots. The people I have seen at these protest look unemployable. It’s time to wake up put on your big boy/girl pants and start taking responsibility for yourself. Stop blaming others for your failures and get a job. Really get a job! If it means you have to stock shelves, flip burgers or wash cars, get a job. No one is entitled to anything but freedom. Get off your lazy asses and get a job. You don’t deserve to be given anything for free.
It's not about handouts, it's about corporate influence. By the way, the unemployment rate is highest among the least educated, so all those burger flipping jobs that you seem to think are out there are probably already filled. We are not children to be scolded, and we are not lesser than you, or has love truly left you?
I can understand where you're coming from. Just don't take kindness as a form of weakness.
I guess the frustration of the people may come across aggressive. I do hope no violence errupts from this because I feel the news media is waiting around for it to happen.
I confirm civility as the appropriate position, however, I do not confirm that this movement is to be equated with "war." It should be equated with a "civil dialogue" focused toward particular objectives. The downside is: the objectives in this movement are not unified. It's difficult to hold a discussion when the topic continues to change. This movement desperately needs organization and leadership from "all" sectors in order to stay out of the realmn of war. The term "war," positions one group against another. The beauty of a demcracy is that all voices are to be heard and that we all "one nation . . . indivisible." Any attempt to create division is not a part of the American creed.
I was not attempting to equate the movement with war, but some claim support of the movement treat it as if it were a war and do not behave with civility.
The movement may need organization, but I'm not sure it needs a clear leadership. I believe that we can retain our plurality. I have no problem with factions and sub-movements forming, so long as we all remember the one unifying principle. That we must work together to limit the power corporations have over our politics.
I appreciate the clarification. Factions, sub-movements and a lack of leadership are, historically, what has caused the failure of many movements. The absence of any specific and unified objective by these efforts will , most likely, result in a deterioration of the safe structures that have held this nation together.
What of a flat tax for all? I've not heard any response on this. Why should certain classes of individuals pay less or more in taxes than any other? Flat taxation on individuals and corporations eliminates the real issues of the financial game in this nation. Flat tax coupled with fixed campaign budgets takes the financial terms out of the election process.
These are examples of specific objectives.
I'll continue to watch for something substantive out of this movement.
Some fractured points:
A leaderless movement can generate more energy and support. People can unite under a leaderless movement even if they have very different ideas about what should practically be done. What this means is that a leaderless movement is the best way to generate energy, discussion, debate, and attention. As soon as there are clear leaders the movement will fracture precisely because not everyone can agree completely on what should be done. At some point we will need political change, but I think what we need more is cultural change, awareness, and perhaps most importantly discussion. We need to makes sure that the politicians and the media know that we have had enough, that they need to start doing their jobs or there will be a whole lot of anger directed at them.
The problem with a flat tax is that it ends up taking bread away from one man but only gold away from another. Is it really fair to take the same percentage of bread out of a hungry man's mouth, or shelter from over his head, as you take gold from another man's fault, or hours from his Hawaii vacation? That doesn't seem fair to me. It's not even about redistribution of wealth. I won't support anyone who wants to take away everyone's property. But I will support the idea that someone who makes $20,000 a year should keep what little they have, even if it means that I have to pay a little more. I'm okay with that. I don't want to see my tax money misspent, but that's why we do need Republicans, to be the hawk-eye of government, not to try to systematically dismantle government by cutting all spending and lowering taxes no matter what.
Agreed
I see postings banned with texts like 'hippy filth' and 'get a job' and other negative sh*t - I think the moderators are doing a great job.
I think it might make their job more enjoyable if they say "pew pew pew" as they delete posts. It's like the hardest level of asteroids ever around here!!!
First most of you are a bunch of idiots. The people I have seen at these protest look unemployable. It’s time to wake up put on your big boy/girl pants and start taking responsibility for yourself. Stop blaming others for your failures and get a job. Really get a job! If it means you have to stock shelves, flip burgers or wash cars, get a job. No one is entitled to anything but freedom. Get off your lazy asses and get a job. You don’t deserve to be given anything for free.
Yes Lizard - soon we will all be flipping burgers because all of the high-quality manufacturing jobs that used to support our waning middle class are now paying slave wages in third world countries, and sending us back useless, cheap trinkets from China.
Our bought Congress allowed this to happen.
If the corporations would give 10% pay increases to all employees, the economy would be stimulated, without costing the government a dime, HOW BOUT IT?
Without sound money and getting the corporations out of our legislative process while making them accountable, we are lost.
Besides, if you tell companies they must give employees a 10% raise, where does the money come from? It comes from laying off other people to make up for the difference. This is one of many reasons why salary and price controls do not work (e.g., the former U.S.S.R.)
The economy may be stimulated for awhile, but hyperinflation created by tripling the money supply through the Fed is going to plough under what is left of the middle class.
We have to take control over our own currency and back it with something (i.e., gold or silver). If we do not, we will go the way of the Weimar Republic.
The most important thing to do first is to End the Fed. Without sound money, we have neither security nor freedom.
Additionally, the election process should be restricted to fixed campaign budgets. Congressional votes should be limited to single items. And, taxation should be flat, affecting all individuals equally.
Yes, there is an effort out there being spearheaded by Dylan Ratigan (of all people) to get the money out of campaigning in the form of a Constitutional amendment, and change the way we elect people to office.
This process must be changed, because as it is, we have a bought Congress.
Term limits are not a bad idea, but alone - they won't work. Because the process of getting elected is so expensive now that almost every candidate must make promises to special interest contributors that have to be fulfilled once they win.
However, I very much like the idea of citizen legislators - in other words, teachers, plumbers, insurance salesmen, doctors, - regular people going to Washington for a limited time to represent their communities, and then passing the torch to someone else. Career politicians are no good for anyone.
If the corporations would give 10% pay increases to all employees, the economy would be stimulated, without costing the government a dime, HOW BOUT IT?