Forum Post: Civil Disobedience may cross the line on 12/12, it might look more like 'terrorism'.
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 21, 2011, 2:30 a.m. EST by newearthorder
(295)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
. I'm all for the movement and the protests, but I am asking the people to reconsider the planned action on the west coast to shut down the ports on 12/12/2011.
Once again, I am completely behind you guys. If I could win the lottery and send everyone a hot pizza or a veggie burrito I would do it.
But, I really think the blocking the ports is a bad idea. I am betting homeland security is gearing up right now. It will most definitely begin, but it will also end, and I am afraid badly. It could be very bad public relations.
And, it could be a great opportunity for some media to make us look bad. Limbaugh is already saying the guy that shot at the WH with the AK47 was at the Occupy DC encampment. I'm just saying, why don't we try something positive first.
Here's an idea. On Thursday, Thanksgiving day, if you can,...go buy a turkey, and make a turkey dinner and serve it in the park,..or where-ever you are,..serve some to the cops, or the homeless people who hang around. Be completely altruistic, the way you wish corporations would be. Set a great example. Volunteer at homeless shelters, do whatever you can to help those less fortunate.
We can do outrageous things and make our points, but we really need to think about our next steps. We need spokespersons and a clear message. Getting the money out of politics is the main one, but, how has it harmed us, and how should we change it and why.
You guys are the best, and I know you want the best for the whole planet, but lets try to be positive and get a positive message out.
This movement has been heading toward a violent conclusion. One relatively unrecognized factor is due to the participation of so many disgruntled, unemployed and frustrated younger men. There was actually a military study that recently cited an imbalance of young men to women as a contributing factor in violent uprisings, and in parallel to other countries, thanks to China's female infanticide rate they may soon be facing the prospect of massive internal revolutionary turmoil.
All movements are headed towards the possibility of violence. We are going up against the NYPD anti-terrorism force. They are using OWS as batting practice to try out all their new toys. If the envelope isn't being pushed, the movement will be ignored.
I am tired of violence and i'm tired of charity. We have the technology and the resources to end both.
I'm a farmer. I know a good machine from a crappy one (read Egypt). But a good machine in the hands of a lousy operator leads to damaged equipment and loss of crop leading to hunger and debts. We're coming out with better machines all the time but keeping the machine i have running productively means i can aquire a state-of-the-art machine sooner. So let's fix the machine we have (the ballot box is your tool box) while we discuss the new machine.
You're freaking right it will be seen as terrorism.
I spent 5 weeks in my local occupy camp. We closed it down when we saw the violence growing. Someone is going to get hurt this time (and not just with pepper spray, which washes off..jeez people...man up, for crying out loud..).
At our local camp, we could see the coming violence from a long way off. Maybe because we were farther away, not involved in NY, but the mob at the first Oakland, was only the beginning of the violence that is inevitable. Occupy can not back down because it feels it is 'right' for it to be breaking the laws and stepping on the Constitutional rights of the majority by forcibly taking towns/ports/subways/parks/roads/bridges.. The police can not allow a mob to take over, and the rest of the majority public will not let the police fail to protect them and their cities. The rest of the majority, the real majority, want law and order, not mayhem and will demand a restoration to order. And it is those people, the real 99% who will condem OWS and bring it down. OWS's war is not with the police, because police are just what happens naturally when you break laws. And right now, OWS's war is not even with the bankers who don't bother to look up from their phones and who don't even bat an eyelash at Occupy. Right now, OWS' war is with the people and they are watching.
The next step: Occupy Christmas! http://churchofatheism.webs.com
Good point, really.
Except, serving dinner, while it will fill hungry bellies, isn't going to effect the type of drastic change in government that we need NOW. I have somewhat mixed feelings on this question, really. On one hand, what you propose seems a lot more pleasant. They say you catch more flies with honey than vinegar (even if, in reality, it's not true. Vinegar works). But we've been all flowers and free hugs for so long that we haven't been taken seriously. It seems more drastic measures are in order. Still, we must ask, "Do we need to disrupt commerce on a level that jeopardizes working class people's livelihood, or that may result in violence?" I don't have the answer.
Serving dinner? Why not just stay home and watch the parade on TV?
Yes we do need to disrupt commerce on a level that jeopardizes working class people's livlihood if that is what it takes to bring about a more just system. It is time for the working class drones to wake up and smell the pepper spray!
Serving dinner would be as unexpected as blocking the ports, and it would be positive and help build a consensus. OWS will never make change by ourselves. We need all the people to listen and act in their own way to help us change the system. They will not do it if they think were just a bunch of thugs, which is what we will look like if we continue on the current path.
Meals are served at almost every OWS event. Literally hundreds of meals have been served. Serving meals along with protest is fantastic; however serving meals in lieu of protest is ineffective.
Look like thugs? For excercising our constitutional rights to gather and protest? For fighting for our civil liberties? The people we are up against ARE the thugs-- they are quite literally white collar criminals. These people are not going to roll over unless we insist on the free excercise of our rights.
[Removed]
[Removed]
A shutdown is by definition going to involve force, as even when a union membership votes to strike there are usually some who want to cross the picket line, and their fellow workers are on the line to discourage just such actions. That's how we got the eight hour day, paid vacations, etc.
http://www.criterion.com/films/777-harlan-county-usa
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=7273