Forum Post: Capitalism is it, folks. Be patriots, not looters.
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 7, 2011, 9:22 p.m. EST by burleson1970
(72)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I hate to burst anyone's bubble especially since I used to be a leftist (ISO) but you people are believing in a social philosophy, socialism, that has failed. While capitalism isn't perfect it has stood the test of time, and if you work hard enough you can make it. Stop trying to take money out of my pocket to fund your $3 trillion in projects. Even America doesn't have that sort of cash lying around, even if you looted every rich person in the country. Read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand and then try to tell me that what you are doing is the right thing. http://www.nationalfederalism.com
Capitalism IS it, but Corrupt capitalism has got to go.
Burleson,
Maybe you don't fully understand the message here. Check out the 'About' tab on this website and read the few paragraphs that are there. This movement is about taking this Nation out of the hands of corporations and financial interests, and putting it squarely in the hands of the American people. I'll go ahead and quote it here for you:
"On 13 Jul 2011, the group Adbusters released this call: Occupy Wall Street!
In Solidarity, and as a response to this call, a planning group was formed [occupywallst.org], and an info sharing site established. The participation of every person, and every organization, that has an interest in returning the US back into the hands of it's individual citizens is required.
Our nation, our species and our world are in crisis. The US has an important role to play in the solution, but we can no longer afford to let corporate greed and corrupt politics set the policies if our nation.
We, the people of the United States of America, considering the crisis at hand, now reassert our sovereign control of our land.
Solidarity Forever!"
What part of that says socialism, left or even anti-capitalism. I would propose that it is in-fact Pro-Democracy. Please read the literature before you drink the cool aid propagandized by anyone other than this site.
Boots
Of course I understand the message; hell I used to stand out in Lafayette Square with a bullhorn demanding the eviction of the president. Like I said, I understand folks here. Just thought it might be interesting to inject some alternative views to the debate. What fun is it if everyone thinks more or less the same???? OK I know you're all going to be disappointed but I'm signing off of here for tonight; got a Guardian Angels patrol to get to 225 miles away. Good luck everyone with your endeavours. Who knows, maybe you'll all prove me wrong. It's been known to happen.
http://www.nationalfederalism.com
Good luck with the patrol and God Bless the Angels.
Boots
(Signs off of here to head for the bus station)
Nonsense? Guess you haven't seen the video, the one that explains how we'll go broke if we follow up on all these Obamaprograms,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY8LKII_MNA
far right propaganda does not interest me, and it shouldn't be making the grade to be posted here. lies with math. you think hes making a big thing about giving it all up. You think that sounds really like the most you could soak. instead its just a con scam because its about taking a small amount of money at each specific turn. if you take all of it the thing you took it from dies, and never produces more. While amusing, the math is wrong, and the core premises is in fact a means to the end of lying with math.
That's like saying 1+1=2. The man's math is correct; my father who is a PhD mathematician checked the figures. I think his points ought to be taken seriously. We need a new America, without all this debt and deficits and other Beltway lunacy. It'll take a huge movement of nationalists really to make it happen. http://www.nationalfederalism.com
sorry, no, hes spending the money too fast, and the whole point of taking everything is that then the math allows that tax resource to stop paying in to the system.
Geez every time I try to log off someone throws me a curve ball. LOL. Well here's what I think. You just made my point: that there is an "everything" that is for the taking, and it is happening by corrupt and inept politicians like that man I made the mistake of voting for in 2008. (That's right folks I was an Obama man. Eventually drove me to the far right out of sheer frustration). GOOD NIGHT everyone I'm really leaving now. http://www.nationalfederalism.com
sorry, no, we are not beliving in socialism, and even if we did, it has never existed so it can;t have failed. not interested in it. Or your false dillemma, you have nothing useful to say on this topic since you are spouting programmed nonsense. Nobodies trying to take money out of your pocket- the elites are the ones stealing from everyone else. Ayn rand is an evil person and atals shrugged is a loonatic useless document as worthless as marxist drivel.
Disagree. She was brilliant... the whole idea of captains of industry going on strike while the socialistic economy slides toward collapse. After awhile there's no one left who knows how to run anything. http://www.nationalpatriotism.com
brilliant? its not a socialistic economy, its a caste warfare economy. You guys flip everything around inside out and get it all dead wrong. because you are pwns and stooges for evil stupid nonsense- far right BS.
I love it how the far left accuses the far right of BS, and vice versa. Makes political discourse in America more interesting. Ironically we really all want the same thing -- a country where we have jobs and can raise our kids in peace.
i'm not the far left. I'm outside the box. republicanism and conservativism are wide eyed fascist stupid evil ignorant crazy insane 1000 percent. Liberals by contrast are just wrong half the time and ignorant only about 90 percent of the subjects. Its long past time to quit mollycoddling the dupes. There are two kinds of republicans and two kinds of (party) dems. Evil oligarchs, and their dupes. Stop being a dupe. stop promoting anti obama inflammatory BS which is nonsensical, and which is just standard far right nonsense ammo. grow up, and quit being a pwn for corporate oligarchy and quit bringing that whole mind fook game to occupy wall street.
And that is why I'm an independent nationalist and not a Republocrat.
http://www.nationalfederalism.com forgot my signature...
Yeah.....as a literary work, it isnt bad but the reality is that there are plenty of people who would know how to run things. The fallacy that there are just a "smart few" that do is part of the problem.
Well part of her story line if you recall is it all began when the government brainwashed people out of thinking for themselves. Whenever something bad happened no one knew what to do. That's the problem with socialistic dictatorships--they don't want people thinking for themselves. The mind as they say is a terrible thing to waste. http://www.nationalfederalism.com
You mean kind of like how our education system keeps falling down the toilet?
Its a great book. Alot like Orwell, in my view. I wouldnt live my life by it but it's a good book and not propaganda in my opinion. Just like The Stand is a really good book which is really about what if we went back to basics....how would people react? If they had none of the modern things what would they do? Again, a great book, but I wouldnt use it as a guiding philosophy.
Sorry to give you the bad news, but nothing perpetuates indefinitely. Just ask the leaders of some Arab countries.
You are talking about working hard. No doubt, that is, if 20+ Million can find a job. I'm sure they'll find your suggestion insulting.
Don't missunderstand me. I am not against capitalism, and I am not a leftist, socialist, communism, or anything remotely alike. I'm just an observer, like millions of americans, of a few abusing the system to a point where the rest is impacted by them.
It's time to let them know who is the boss.
I find it insulting. And I have a job.
Yeah and why aren't all those people marching on Wall Street out looking for jobs instead. Looters. http://www.nationalfederalism.com
I don't think those news reports on TV, magazines, newspapers and the Internet about people having 2+ years looking for a job are invented. Do you?
9.1% unemployment talks by itself
The real looters are the persons benefiting from favorable contracts to support the wars. Do you agree with how the government provide billions of dollars to fix the economy without keeping any accounting for how/who received them? I don't see you willing to do something similar with your money. Do you?
And the list goes on and on and on. They even institutionalize figures like the lobbists. How would you qualify them?
...they are the minority
change is coming, we won't be able to stop it, so let's embrace it.
which is why my site argues to end the whole mess and start over again. We're not going to have much choice otherwise bankers will reposess our country like a bad mortgage. Not the sort of future I want to leave to my kids (if I ever get around to having any, at age 40......) http://www.nationalfederalism.com
What do you mean by "you people." This is an inclusionary movement with only one commonality, we are the people who have been fucked over by those in power. And suggesting that socialism is the only philosophy being thrown around here is obviously assumed. How about reading around a little bit before you jump to conclusion. Note: I agree about capitalism, but we have to change our preferred form of enterprise, and our value system.
Well when I use the term "we the people" I am speaking of a united country with common goals. It's impossible to modify any economic system without the majority on board. First we get rid of Congress and change the Presidency; get rid of lobbyists special interests and other Factions, as Hamilton put it. http://www.nationalfederalism.com
Common goals. Your goals....but not the goals you disagree with, like social welfare, universal healthcare etc.
Stop using all of these dull terms. The language you use is designed to create paradigms of control and confusion. Socialism, capitalism, blah blah blah. It's very simple: a world based on truth instead of lies, light instead of dark.
i.e., right and wrong, not right or left.
You raise great point but if the agenda of ows is too end crony capitalism aka corporatism. I am with them wholeheartedly. On the other hand if it is an anti free market movement I would have to oppose them. Government collusion with corporations has caused nothing more than the poor to stay poor the middle class to bleed money to the rich via bailouts and the rich to get richer.
That's why we must turn back to Hamilton and the Federalists for wisdom on how to run a government that combats what they called factions, and what we today call special interests and lobbyists. We need a new America, built on the original slogan of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness--not some sloppy socialist system like Obama wants. http://www.nationalfederalism.com
I agree. The agenda should be markets totally free of any government interference thus making lobbyists irrelevant and allowing what all these huge corporations fear the most, competition. For instance I work for Verizon, the CWA went on strike because Verizon wanted to cut our total compensation by about 20k per worker. Now I don't believe the company would have ever attempted to do something like this while still earning profits if the market were not regulated so that it is near impossible for 45,000 workers to leave and form a competitor. If not for all the government roadblocks to forming a telecommunications company 45k workers could have easily pooled resources and started a competing company with all of the skill having left Verizon. I don't think things like this happen in an unregulated market.
One of the ideas I posted on http://www.nationalfederalism.com is to create a small business loan program that works similar to student loans; e.g., fill out the equivalent of a FAFSA and start your business. We Americans are creative and resourceful; we can do it!
That is because America wastes it's money on Wars and bribing other countries. End the trillions of dollars that go towards that, and we can afford just about anything with the taxes we already have.
You are misinformed about what this movement is about anyway.
I was once part of the movement. I am inside its head. No one on the right knows more than I do what it means to be a leftist. Common sense however and doing some math reveal we simply cannot afford to meet the demands of this movement, as well-meaning as some of them are. http://www.nationalfederalism.com
The point is this isn't a LEFT thing. It only seems that way because the "RIGHT" is too stubborn to rub elbows and show their side. This is a HUMAN thing. The goal is to end corruption. But at the same time, the individuals there have other interests they feel could help. If you and your GOP friends went down there too with the goal of ending corruption, then you too could hold up signs of your individual interests.
Imagine:
Two signs floating above a great mass of people one reads "Hands off our guns" the other "Lower the cost of Education"
Do you understand yet. It is becoming hard to present this in any simpler a format.
A correction. The GOP are not my friends. I make them look like Paul Wellstone liberals. Nationalism will rise and be victorious. POST on my blog at http://www.nationalfederalism.com
I do agree however that it's not a left thing, or a right thing. It's a moral thing, between right and wrong. I was brought up that stealing is wrong, and that is what the government does -- steals my money and gives it to people who didn't earn it. http://www.nationalfederalism.com
You are right. So join the movement and express that