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Forum Post: Capitalism was born out of Tyranny

Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 21, 2011, 8:42 p.m. EST by FriendlyObserverA (610)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

From the Kings of tyranny came Capitalism

68 Comments

68 Comments


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[-] 2 points by Farleymowat (415) 12 years ago

Capitalism was born out of freedom.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverA (610) 12 years ago

Capitalism has an evil history.

When Slavery was abolished after the civil war , the slave owners were so upset they killed their slaves and threw their bodies in the streets. this is an example of the ice cold blood running in the veins of the capitalist. They are hotheaded and evil spirited.

[-] 0 points by Farleymowat (415) 12 years ago

Now you're a slave to the government. Every time they raise your taxes, you are enslaved a liitle deeper.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

Tyranny is not letting me start my own business, which is what has happened to most of them.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverA (610) 12 years ago

I am sure this is not displayed in proper context. it is a bill designed for a specific reason , and that reason is being withheld to create an improper conspiracy.my thoughts

[-] 1 points by orz (83) 12 years ago

Consider a scenario. There are four men in a cage. One has immediate access to a gun. No food is provided. When there's one left, 3 more will come. It takes some strong words to take that gun away.

Our world is, hopefully, different.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverA (610) 12 years ago

what does this scenario compare to in your mind ?

[-] 1 points by orz (83) 12 years ago

It is an economy, of sorts. Killing or sacrifice is necessary for it to sustain, so its not our world. But it's arguable. And a capitalist configuration, on this model, looks just like a tyrannical one. One guy tells another to fight to the death.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 12 years ago

In your scenario it is what must happen not someone telling another to kill. It could be justified as a necessary evil.

[-] 1 points by orz (83) 12 years ago

The gun-holder has more options than the victim. The victim can accept or resent death. Some would call this freedom.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 12 years ago

Its more freedom than if there was four or no guns. Some would call this fair.

[-] 1 points by orz (83) 12 years ago

Say each victim is replaced, instead. Perhaps the ammo is in/finite.

It would be interesting to see each sacrifice in turn, or a hierarchy.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 12 years ago

In this situation you have an infinite amount of control for one person. It doesn't seem like a lot has changed from the other scenario except for the fact that the bullets run out. If that is the case in the first scenario the person with the gun will protect his commodity with his life while in the second he will take it for granted that he can do whatever he wants. In essence, maintaining the bullets becomes of less importance than maintaining his control which become the most important commodity.

[-] 1 points by orz (83) 12 years ago

Sleeping with one eye open would last only so long.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 12 years ago

I didn't say that an individuals control would last indefinitely with a weapon. I merely said that when one had a weapon one would do his damnedest to ensure he maintained his control as long as it may last.

[-] 1 points by orz (83) 12 years ago

Sure. It's a scenario, so we can't extrapolate too well anyway. But if we could, the gun-bearer's POV would be politically relevant: one possibility being tyranny, another capitalism, &c.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 12 years ago

On a scale so small it doesn't seem like an accurate description to apply such a large idea that is normally only seen on the scale of governments.

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[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 12 years ago

Actually there were kings long before there was capitalism.

The history of capitalism can be traced back to early forms of merchant capitalism practiced during the Middle Ages in the Netherlands.

The Kingdom of Pelagonia existed in the 7th century BC.

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[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 12 years ago

I would argue that trade is not the same thing as capitalism. Trade is a practice that may or may not involve money. Capitalism is a system of investment in ownership. Storing goods for future use is not capitalism either so those caches.do not indicate there was something like stocks or bonds involved.

In the US every company must issue stock when it incorporates. For my first business I declared 1,000 shares. You may or may not be the sole holder of those share (you may have one or more partners). If a business needs more capital but have no collateral the banks will not lend me money, especially with Dodd Frank passing since they are not allowed to take risks. IF you need money you can sell shares of stock to private individuals willing to take the risk of losing everything. If you need a lot of money you can put the shares out to the public to purchase in an IPO. The first known stock exchange was in Antwerp Belgium in 1531.

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[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 12 years ago

I would still not consider the use of currency an indication that capitalism really existed. There were items like flint and salt that were important and traded at a higher value true but that does not imply capitalism. I believe that for a long time salt was the predominant currency and the word salary even comes from the word salt.

When people talk capitalism today and associated problems it is more about the stock exchanges, day traders, options, derivatives, and buying and selling short term for profit. You are not really investing in the company, you are investing in the stock. It is really something that has only existed for a short period of time.

You are correct that capitalism has a broader meaning than our modern concept of capitalism but so does monarchy rule. Was a Pharaoh technically a king in 2000 BC?

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[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 12 years ago

And God is the King of Kings.

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[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 12 years ago

That was tongue in cheek. As and atheist myself I have no problem engaging in religious debate from a historical perspective. It is kind of hard not to when you brought it up. That was not any more a religious comment Pharaoh was god incarnate implying that meant he was not a king.

The fact that the Pharaoh was considered divine does not mean he was not a monarch. He was the the a hereditary sovereign and sole and absolute ruler of the state.

According to the "divine right of kings", the kings of Europe were subject to no earthly authority, deriving their right to rule directly from the will of God.

Others early monarchs include Cecrops I was king of Athens in 1556 BC, We don't know how the first cities were ruled.

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[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 12 years ago

I would argue that a lot has changed in the past few hundred years. A few hundred years ago knowledge, books, education, health care, and capital were not available to the masses but to the noble and even then only to males. Women could not even inherit property.

It was not until the renaissance that things changed. Here in America, our founding fathers especially Benjamin Franklin changed a lot of that. He created the first public lending library, public hospital, science centers, public bank, volunteer fire departments.

In the recent past, your lineage had more to do with how far you could go. Today a person born to a poor family can become a billionaire.

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[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 12 years ago

Do you agree that the world has changed more int he past 200 years than it has in the past 4,000? I believe it has.

You seem to be educated and interested in knowledge and facts. I bet you would love this site, It was created by a Swedish professor and has some great data and tools to look at it.

http://www.gapminder.org/

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[-] -1 points by FriendlyObserverA (610) 12 years ago

you have a point

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 11 years ago

Ice T speaking some truth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GwIbyp4xBU

[-] 0 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 12 years ago

Tyrants reside in all forms of government. Overthrow the tyrants, not the system! Free and fair trade should be it's essence.

[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverA (610) 12 years ago

Capitalism is pure tyranny.

it is the government that provides human rights.. and frees us from tyranny

[-] 1 points by RobinHood2012 (39) 12 years ago

Lemme guess, your jobless and are looking for handouts? Or, you work for the government.

[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverA (610) 12 years ago

I am just a hardworking man carrying the whole world on my back .. including all the capitalist retailer free riders.

[-] 1 points by RobinHood2012 (39) 12 years ago

Your message has no message. Fail.

[-] 1 points by friendlyopposition (574) 12 years ago

Are you saying that the government provides human rights, or should provide human rights? I'm confused...

[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverA (610) 12 years ago

yes to both really .. the business owners have no responsibility to the people .. they simply are out for profit .. and would polute the world if they could get away with it .. it is the government that keeps them in check .. with labor laws ,and environmental laws .. and this is developing in progress

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[-] 0 points by Farleymowat (415) 12 years ago

I'd rather live in this tyrannical society than somewhere, like China or Russia, or England or France or Italy, or Iran or....

[-] 0 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 12 years ago

I would rather live in a more fair and more just society, but it will only be obtained by our just and fair defense against tyranny which is by non compliance.

[-] 1 points by AFarewellToKings (1486) 12 years ago

Non compliance and more.

The Suffolk Resolves was the answer to the tyranny the founding fathers endured. It led directly to the Declaration Of Independence two years later. Our version of the SR's is the 99% Declaration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffolk_Resolves

http://www.the99declaration.org/

[-] 0 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 12 years ago

Thanks for the links.

[-] 0 points by Farleymowat (415) 12 years ago

Vote the assholes out. Again and again and again.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 12 years ago

There seems to be an endless supply of them.

[-] 0 points by Farleymowat (415) 12 years ago

True. But the only way to shake these politicians is to fire them. Repeatedly.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverA (610) 12 years ago

thinking about yourself again ..?

[-] 0 points by Farleymowat (415) 12 years ago

No. Just stating a fact. I like our tyrannical regime much better than the ones I mentioned. You couldnt possibly understand that.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverA (610) 12 years ago

you may like it even more when we remove the tyranny.

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[-] 0 points by Farleymowat (415) 12 years ago

Start by getting the politicians that are the real perpetrators of tyranny. You know, the ones who don't even read a bill, and demand a vote on it anyway. They're the biggest ass holes that ever lived, and we just put them right in every time.

[-] -1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 12 years ago

If you expect government to give you human rights and freedom from tyranny, why don't you have them? Only the people can provide human rights by the strength of their demand for them. Their demand was so great in 1776 that they were willing to go to war to take their rights back which were stolen by King George of England.
Governments only take human rights. Our rights do not come from a piece of paper given to us by a government. The constitution means nothing unless people are willing to stand up and defend it. It is the peoples lack of knowledge and action that allows for a government to be run by tyrants!

[-] -1 points by FriendlyObserverA (610) 12 years ago

You obviously haven't lived here long enough to understand .

[-] 0 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 12 years ago

Only 55 years. What do you understand then?

[-] -1 points by FriendlyObserverA (610) 12 years ago

governments are all different.

[-] 0 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 12 years ago

name one that does not include tyranny?

[-] -1 points by FriendlyObserverA (610) 12 years ago

elected officials are not tyrants. but business owners can certainly be ..and that is what capitalism is made up of tyrant business owners , where the employers have absolute rule ..

[-] 0 points by Farleymowat (415) 12 years ago

Elected officials are COMPLETE TYRANTS. That is the problem of the ages dude.

[-] -1 points by FriendlyObserverA (610) 12 years ago

not true

[-] 1 points by Farleymowat (415) 12 years ago

Well Friendly Dude, I completely disagree. Government is the problem.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverA (610) 12 years ago

can you be specific?

I see government our only resource in keeping tyrant capitalists from over running the world.. Surely you do not believe capitalists are more powerful than government .. the power of the people ..

This is our greatest means of defence .. freedom of speech freedom of press .. and democracy .. these ideas were non existent only a few centurys ago. the power we have with democracy and free speech gives the human race an unlimited unrestrained future .. where as tyranny was oppression total oppression .. which is what capitalism is in a smaller form ..

[-] 0 points by Farleymowat (415) 12 years ago

Government holds the golden key. They have all the power. Nancy Pelosi could have said NO to insider trading, like Joe Lieberman has. Politicians could say NO to the bribes. They choose to take the bribe. Our government is illegitimate. They have put the wood to the publics backside. Very few are not guilty.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverA (610) 12 years ago

In your opinion .. if the government was completely legit and non corupted .. what would you have them do ? with the economy .., with capitalism , with this economic crisis ?

[-] 0 points by Farleymowat (415) 12 years ago

Get out of the way. Bailouts? Fuck that. Let the assholes sink. If your business can't make it without a bailout, then go down the toilet.

[-] -1 points by Farleymowat (415) 12 years ago

Well said.

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