Forum Post: Can we all agree on "No corproate bailouts, no corporate welfare"?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 17, 2011, 11:26 a.m. EST by Febs
(824)
from Plymouth Meeting, PA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Its a strong message, the left and the right like it, it appeals to middle America and it would be a net positive for the nation.
Its as close to 99% agreement we will ever find.
Yes.
This is the only legitimate demand of OWS.
In 1979 Chrysler was bailed out. It was done quickly and it was done well. They were given 1.5 Billion in loans from the government on the condition that they raised 1.5 Billion more by themselves.
Chrysler restructured itself and introduced the mini-van as well as other new vehicles. They were able to pay off the loan in 4 years with $350 Million paid in excess.
They saved thousands of jobs and maintained a competitive market for automobiles. SHOULD the government have bailed them out?
No. It is a fallacy that jobs were saved. The cause of the situation was protectionist tariffs on foreign cars introduced by the government at the request of Chrysler and other American car companies anyway so it was literally its own dumb ideas coming back to bite them. They felt they didn't have to make quality cars or innovate because the tariffs protected them from competition. Japanese cars that were made price competitive while being much less costly to run (fuel and repairs) destroyed the lazy American car companies.
The jobs wouldn't have vanished though - the demand for cars was still there so the jobs would have been picked up by the other car company that would have bought the existing factories.
This is how the market works - the dead corporations feed the live ones in a cycle of reuse and renewal. It makes way for businesses that meet consumer demands (by buying up the old assets of the ones that didn't - and for cheap). Win-Win.
Interesting points. Tariffs are pretty ineffectual and do more harm then good, and most of the times are demanded by the corporations and their lobbyists.
Yup same thing with the GM bailout. People might have had problem for a few months but in short order everything would have worked out. The problem for GM wasn't tariffs however it was extraordinarily high union contracts. Of course to fix this problem 300 years of law was ignored by the administration in order to reward unions and screw bond holders. The economic interests of the unions - being major campaign donors to the new President had to have their share met first.
This is politics in America - dirty, rough, viscous, and at the expense of everyday people. Parties don't matter only where the $$$ go and how many votes it can buy.
Sad state of affairs - we are becoming what the USSR propagandized us as.
There you go again. This sounds like the tea party movement. Maybe OWS is the tea party in disguise. You mention you want to appeal to middle America. We are listening. Get your message clear and defined. You need a spokesperson. You need media people to go on camera with a middle America message. If you truly have a middle America message. Don't avoid FOX news. They could be your biggest supporter if you can get a clear, defined, middle America message.
Who is the spokesperson for OWS?
I understand there is a movement to diversify the crops in middle America
because an ecosystem of many parts is more efficient and resilient
than a single crop environment
It would take more human power to diversify the crops but labor is available,
We are trying to find a singular clear issue we can present. That is why so many are being floated to see what single message gets traction. Right now its a voice of many - confused and contrary. Much like the resentment in the colonies was which took years to distill into a single list of objections with an outcome.
Well understand that anything that 99% of American's will agree with is likely to find a place in almost every political pot Tea Party included. I personally find a lot in common with the Tea Party (unfocused and anger and economic concerns). The issue then becomes on agreeing on a course of action...and even back in the day Ben Franklin was a Tory before he became a revolutionary.
Wishing you luck Febs. I believe if your leadership can find a common message and a spokesperson to come forward for the group it stands a better chance of resonating with the 99%.
Thank you very much for your kind words of support.