Forum Post: Can someone PLEASE explain the practical goals of Occupy?
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 29, 2011, 7:39 p.m. EST by idontgetit
(5)
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I'm one of the 99%, struggling to get by in a rough economy. I get the inherent unfairness of 1% of the population living like kings in gilded luxury while the rest live hand to mouth in squalor by comparison. What I don't get is exactly what these public Occupations are supposed to do about it? Annoy the 1% into giving a large % of their net worth away?
I live in the Bay Area and the San Fransisco and Oakland's Occupy movements are costing the state millions. With today's tax laws, it isn't the ultra rich 1% who is going to end up paying for it - its the 99%.
Also I think the people Occupying calling themselves the 99% is presumptuous. I'd say 98% of that 99% are at work every day (or at home looking for work) and not camping out in the streets to make a point. It seems a terrible waste of time, manpower, energy and money (spent policing and cleaning up after). The 99% would be better served if the "Occupiers" assembled to do something positive for the less fortunate and then use the good will and publicity to lobby and publicly guilt the 1% to see the philanthropic light. If all this energy was put into something PRODUCTIVE - THAT would change the world for the better. Instead of marching on banks - march on dilapidated playgrounds and tenements and improve them instead of loitering in hopes of inconveniencing some suits. Feed the truly homeless instead of wasting money feeding your members as they camp out. I just think there are so many other ways of drawing attention to the problem - ones that would draw more support and less ill will from other members of the 99% you purport to represent.
Not looking to start a flame war - but I am genuinely curious about how this is supposed to help anything - are you actually hoping to steer the US away from capitalism? I don't see that happening.
@ "idontgetit" : From your post and paradoxically perhaps, you actually do Get IT far more than most with your understanding and use of The Word, 'Capitalism' !!.ie "how this is supposed to help anything - are you actually hoping to steer the US away from capitalism?"
evolution + Rapid evolution = Revolution ? ~{:-)
In case you haveN'T seen IT : http://documentarystorm.com/inside-job/ !!
Please also avail yourself of : http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/category/economics/ and start to See and Feel as opposed to being "told" or spoon fed ;-)
Gd Wshs 4 a gr8 2O|2 & bynd ...~~~*
per ardua ad astra ~{~
*All these films have one thing in common and it's about how Global Corporate wealth is not only ruining America, but the World too. I suggest you watch all these films and do further historic research on the birth of Wall Street and how the idea of Currency was first introduced to the world.
One thing I will say about the protest is, that it shouldn't just come out and present it's goals openly, because it gives the 1% a chance to discredit anything they would try to explain to anyone. The fact is this, the protest is by "choice" and you can choose to join and contribute any ideas for the future that you think are working solutions period. But, as I said just now, watch these movies if you wish and do research.
The more you know about the truth of our history all over the world, the more prepared you'll be for the future.
PEACE.
This list is great! I watched Inside Job, Sicko, Capitalism: A Love Story, Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps, and Food Inc. I had no idea there were more, and I am grateful you listed them and will try to grab a hold of these.
I would like to in turn recommend the Zeitgeist series with an emphasis on Zeitgeist: Addendum which explains the Federal Reserve in more detail. You can also see how corporate corruption ruined the education system by watching Waiting for "Superman".
idontgetit,
When you get a chance, rent the documentary "Inside Job" if you have not seen it already. It explains how the 2008 financial collapse happened and who made billions at the expense of the American public.
The establishment folks would like people to believe that OWS is against capitalism. This is simply not true. While I'm sure there are some among the protestors promoting this I think they are a small minority. What we need is REAL capitalism - the kind that used to support a vibrant and growing middle class. What the 1% is calling capitalism today is really "crony-capitalism." The 1% is privatizing the profits and socializing the losses. How are they doing this? They have more influence over our elected officials than the rest of the American people combined and it is only getting worse. This is the 99% vs 1% struggle. Here's my 2 cents on what the real problem is and what I believe should be the the main goal of the protests:
There are a lot of improvements that need to be made. The list of reforms Americans want to see is long and varied depending on who you talk to. That said, I believe there is one reform that would provide the American people the best chances of seeing other meaningful reforms actually happen - that is REAL, loop-hope free CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM! I have seen others on this site calling this the "fulcrum" or pivotal issue. Right now the current legalized bribery, pay-to-play system of campaign donations and paid lobbyists has disenfranchised the American voter. Until this is fixed, any other reform the politicians may try to placate us with (be it a change to healthcare, clamping down predatory school loans, new financial regulations, etc.) will be about as effective as a farmer putting a new roof on his CHICKEN COOP, but still letting the FOX guard it.
We need to go back to the original political currency. Instead of the current system of who can collect the most money from corporations and special interests it should be who has the BEST IDEAS to EFFECTIVELY RUN THE COUNTRY (we don't need "Wealth Redistribution," what we need is "Political Influence Redistribution")!
For the sake of our children and future generations of Americans, we need to take back our democracy from the rich and powerful who are using their vast sums of money to "speak" as if they represent millions of Americans. This "Corporate Personhood" that has crept into our laws is allowing them to manipulating our policies in their favor at the expense of the average American (the recent "Citizens United" Supreme Court ruling is a miscarriage of justice and must be reversed. The $50 or $100 a normal American may give to a political campaign becomes meaningless when corporations or other special interests are handing our millions to buy political access to the decision making process.
For decades now the corporations and special interests have had our "representatives" bought and paid for (both on the right and the left). Concentrating our efforts on getting the money out of our politics is the best way we can create an environment in which further reforms can be realized. Until we end the current system of legalized bribery (campaign donations) and paid lobbying our politicians will continue to be the LAP DOGS of the corporations and special interests. What we need first and foremost is real, loop-hole free CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM!!!! If the corruption is not dealt with first, the chance of any other meaningful reforms becoming a reality is almost zero - the special interests will just use their money to buy votes and put forward bills that create loop-holes or otherwise twist the law in their favor. If we want our children to live in a country where there vote matters, we need to get the money out of our politics, otherwise they will increasingly become the 21st century version of the "landless peasant." Spread the word - End the LEGALIZED BRIBERY!!! CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM needs to be THE main goal of the protests!!!
I'm on board with all that - I just don't see how a throng of protesters living on the sidewalks will remotely enable ANY of that. I think you are alienating part of the 99% with these actions. If only they would assemble there and than march somewhere to do some good instead of sitting on your asses in tents while watching videos on their smartphones.
I agree with you. Personally I have had some heartburn over some of the protest actions that I have seen and I'm hoping to see some more positive action in the future. Keep your ear to the ground - I would hope that if a real push for what I mentioned above gains traction that you would throw your support behind it.
Bankers have and continue to cost the US taxpayer hundreds of billions of dollars.
From OWS's right column of the front page (News on menu) you can locate this mission statement:
*Occupy Wall Street is leaderless resistance movement with people of many colors, genders and political persuasions. The one thing we all have in common is that We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%. We are using the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic to achieve our ends and encourage the use of nonviolence to maximize the safety of all participants.
This #ows movement empowers real people to create real change from the bottom up. We want to see a general assembly in every backyard, on every street corner because we don't need Wall Street and we don't need politicians to build a better society.*
Note the language of we don't need politicians to build a better society which seems to concur with their call for Direct Democracy that I have heard in videos. Oddly, there are many people within the forums who contest this very fundamental tenet of the movement. Go figure. Perhaps we have the making of a Reds vs. Whites factional fighting, like the Russian Revolution of the early 20th century.
What I have learned from this forum is that we have a long way to go. Seems many won't acknowledge there is prejudice and sexism in this world. USA is not nearly as advanced as I thought, we are very backward on the whole.
the practical goal in my rough draft opinion is to tone down the overregulation of our government, try to leave more income in the hands of the people who earned it, and less for the fraudelent wasteful spending of our government. To allow families the opportunity mentioned in the constitution, freedom to pursue life, liberty and hapiness. One of those happiness should include having a thousand dollars to spend on a vacation in stead of giving to a worthless gov spending such as the dmv, who recently told me i couldnt drive to work because i had a check engine light, so i took two days off work, paid to fix the light, inspection, registration insurance, as well as replace a front windshield with a small crack, and as luck would have it, i havent built up a savings since July of this year, so we didnt have any money to celebrate christmas for my family of four.
Also, to enlighten the brainwashed minds of society who think that by taxing the rich and putting more money in government will actually help us, when in fact, we will never see a dime of an increase of taxes on the rich in our familes.
Again the constitution was very adamant in its tone of its authors to LIMIT OUR GOVERNMENT, with such exact statements< "taxes are to be VOLUNTARY".
Why are you struggling? I grew up with affordable health care, housing, education and a middle class income that could support a family. I even had a bank account that encouraged personal savings without having to risk it on Wall Street. If you don't know why you are struggling then don't even bother worrying about a few million dollars. Your middle class lifestyle was just taken from you over the past 25 years and you didn't even bother to notice.
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Occupy Wall Street did not cost your state millions of dollars. They were simply people exercising thier right to free speech and their right to protest. Most of them did it on what they assumed was public land. The reason your state spent millions of dollars would be from someone's reaction to the Occupy protests. Do not blame the protestors who were exercising their legal rights for your states expensive and extreme overreaction to a legal protest. Ask yourself why your state did this. Who is your state protecting? If your state is removing these legal protests just to protect a certain crowd then why are you being forced to pay for it? Don't get mad at the legal protestors. Get mad at your state. Tell your state to tally the costs of barring a legal protest and the costs of removing members of the public from public land and tell them to send that bill to the people they are protecting. Tell them not to bill the public at large.
any prolonged protest that large would require ANY responsible police force to spend extra man hours to monitor it. If something bad happens then its their fault (they being police, mayor anyone remotely within the range of blame). There is NO way these protests can be staged without costing the public at large tax dollars. Police and politicians cannot just ignore it. Its their job to defuse public disturbances and keep the city running.
As for who they are protecting... they are protecting the voting taxpayers and local businesses of their state.
the comment "98% of that 99% are at work every day (or at home looking for work)" is based on current US population of 312,768,760. Does the occupy movement have more than 3,127,687 people actively camping out? I cant find numbers for that - but am happy to revise my percentages if anyone else does. http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html
You're sending me mixed signals here. Are you insinuating that Occupy does not compose the actual 99% or ?
I'm saying that i guessed at the figure of the US Occupy campers only being about 1% (99%-98%) of the US population based on the population numbers. 3,127,687 is currently 1% of the US population. I can't find figures for the number to reside at an Occupy camp - but i thought 3 mil+ was generous.
Okay, then yes that is true. The US Occupy campers are not actually composed of the 99% of the US's population. The 99% is more of a 'slogan' in which OWS is attempting to represent the 99% lesser income brackets vs the wealthiest 1% income bracket. Most Americans pay their taxes, those who can 'legally' avoid their taxes are the 1%. I am not a politician which is why I frequently show videos to people so I don't misinterpret the statistics. I recommend Joeboy32's comment listing 15 movies that can accurately say what is and why we should fight against the current corporate greed. If you're willing to spend about 9 minutes watching a video than I recommend this bit on Reaganomics. I personally had no idea what was going on until I began my journey starting with this Rachel Maddow video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjlvRoPvWI4
If you did watch the video, this is the 99% that OWS talks about. It's surprising that even normal OWS supporters claim the 99% holds no significance and is just a catchphrase to grab attention.
OWS is still new and has to vote for these goals to be passed. Be on the look out for January 17th, 2012 I suppose. If you want to be taken seriously, I suggest not using comments typical trolls use. For instance "98% of that 99% are at work every day", really?
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OWS has a few demands that are pretty easy to understand:
Get money out of politics. Reinstate Glass-Steagall. Create a fair tax structure.
ok that's the beginnings of an answer... I'll read about the Glass-Steagall act, but how is camping out en masse in public spaces supposed to bring those things about?
look at history for an explanation:
"The events above noted gave unmistakable evidence of the unity of American sentiment against British oppression; but something more must be done to bring about united action. There must be some central authority to which all the colonies could turn for guidance. This political union came about in the formation of a Continental Congress. This Congress was the result of a spontaneous and almost simultaneous movement throughout the country. From New York came the first call."
The occupations are the unmistakable evidence. 99%=We The People exercising rights. Here's the other right that comes immediately after peaceably assemble, 'petition the government for a redress of grievances' so here's the List Of Grievances and the plan to deliver them, and the Resolve should The List be ignored:
http://www.the99declaration.org/
This might help too if you are genuinely in fact looking for it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffolk_Resolves
It is protest which brings attention to these issues.
Please read about Glass-Steagall. It is very very important that it is reinstated. Many blame it for the Global Financial Crisis.
Watch this short video of Senator Byron Dorgan in 1999 predicting what the repeal of Glass-Steagall would do:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2nZbo8SKbg
None.