Forum Post: But What can I do?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 4, 2011, 8:40 p.m. EST by JKBellucci
(6)
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A few helpful tips so you, who has no choice but to go to work everyday and provide for your loving family but want to be invovled.
1) 1) notify ALL Members of both the house and senate that they're jobs are officially on the line (BOTH PARTIES). simply contact them daily with your demands (i.e. pass the tax reform act taxing the rich (individually and cooperate), end the damn wars, fund technology education for the lower classes, stop the fucking childish bickering and get shit done!, etc.). Check your local laws, do you have the right to recall? if so, start campaigning to recall BOTH PARTIES. if not, guarantee to them that if these actions are not taken, you will campaign harder than they will to make sure they are not re-elected. No matter how long they've been in...THEY ARE ALL TO BLAME
2) STOP BUYING products from companies that are trading on the NYSE. Simply don't buy Gillette, Walmart, P & G, Johnston & Johnston, etc products until these companies start paying taxes. simply boycott the products, it's as easy as that. You'll also be doing amazing wonders for your local economy by shopping locally and buy local products. It is a well known fact that monies spent locally stay local.
What are some other ideas people. Thanks for your time.
Better yet, grow your own (food, I mean). We need to support ourselves AND local farms. I have a big garden, I have chickens, I support local farms and CSA's. A government that is strong enough to give you everything is strong enough to take away everything you have - Jefferson
Educate yourselves about what's really happening economically and then educate others. I've been trying for several months. I'm TOTALLY not the type to try to persuade others of my "beliefs". I utterly abhor doing it, But I really believe this is the most important "event" in my lifetime (and I'm not young - 54) and education is the most important thing.
Learn how to separate truth from fiction. You can begin to do this by learning the so-called "Scientific Method". Don't worry, you won't have to become a scientist or learn math or anything. It's called the "Scientific" Method but it's really the technique that we use to determine what is true and what isn't true.
Oh, and one more thing. Many of you may have to make big paradigm shifts in order to understand what's happening to our country. So be prepared for that. Be ready, and have the courage to face your belief systems understand that much of what you believe may be wrong.
One of the best posts I've read all night DRMartin.
I'm 47, and doing exactly that, challenging all my belief systems.
I'd encourage you as well - don't let your belief system challenges stop at the border. I mean, really. Why should it? Sure, I've grown up with all the illegal immigrant crap and worry just about good old US of A. We are an arrogant people. The idea of prosperity and opportunity begins and ends at home too often for us. As long as I'm doing well, I could give a rat's a$$ if my neighbor just lost his place. Bum should get a job. UAW only wants auto jobs in MI. Who cares if folks in the south can't find jobs. This nonsense has got to stop.
And btw, I find your lack of empathy for your fellow workers deeply disturbing and extraordinarily sad. This is exactly what the elites want from you. They want you, like dogs, to fight for the scraps under the table.
I hope you can find the courage to join us and challenge your belief systems.
I have challenged my belief systems and upended them in my lifetime than you can possibly imagine. It's why I believe what I believe today. Because I have examined the empirical evidence EXTENSIVELY and decided what is true, what is false and what is unkown. You have absolutely no clue whereof you speak.
And it has been terrifying at times but I had the courage to face my fears and challenge my beliefs. Why do you think I'm asking that of others? Do you seriously think I would ask it of others if I haven't been through it myself?
Email links to all contacts Facebook, twitter, all - frequently: Helps trend up Write an opinion piece for local news Keep concept simple and patriotic "For the People and By the People" Demand a just and representative Government Be polite with those that disagree (especially cops)
excellent ideas, has anyone thought to put up a form letter that people could cut and paste to their local papers and press? I did it once in NYC when I lived up there and it was very effective. I think it should be a simple message though that all common working class people will understand. we mustn't speak above the people we're trying to help
● Take your money out of the big banks.
● Spread the word on the internet, around where you live; make the movement relevant to everyone.
Here's an idea. Help someone. PIF.
www.pifexperience.org
If you really want this to stop you have to put regulations on how much top executive officers of publicly traded companies can make. For example, a CEO can only make 20% more than the lowest paid worker. In addition, company's often pay for personal expenses of executives that other workers do not get. These include property taxes, use of private planes, etc. Make this practice illegal as well.
20% more than the lowest worker is not enough incentive I think. I'd say cap CEO pay at 10x the average worker salary.
dictating what someone earns is called socialism, and pure socialism does not work either. They can make whatever they want as far as I'm concerned, but they should be paying the exact same taxes we pay with ONLY the same tax breaks we are entitled to. You cannot control a private or public company payroll with laws for different positions. The people who control these companies deserve more than the people who clean them. With that said, again, they should be taxed equally though.
Agreed. We don't want Communism. We just want the United States to return to a time when a person could work hard and earn a living wage and have a comfortable retirement. That is not too much to ask the greedy rich who are ruling our country.
And a living wage does NOT mean the ability to put a TV in every room in the house or buy an iPad. It's the ability to afford health insurance that doesn't make us go bankrupt if we or our kids get sick. The ability to buy a modest home. The ability to send our children to college. And the right to work under conditions that don't damage our health and even kill us before we have a chance to retire.
I'm 54 years old and my father is living comfortably with a pension, Social Security, Medicare, a company sponsored health plan and a paid-off house. But my pension is gone. I don't have enough in a 401k and I'm not earning any interest on it either. And I wonder if Medicare or SS will even be there when I retire. Yet President Reagan raised my SS taxes by 50% to pay for this time that we knew was coming.
I paid for it! I earned it! I've worked 60 hour weeks since I was 16. I deserve to retire! I don't want to end up like the little old 90-year-old Vietnamese guy that used to empty our trashcans at work. I was born and raised in the richest country in the world and if my contribution to society wasn't enough to retire comfortably then this country can be damned.
But I don't believe that's what this country is about. That's what the rich have convinced too many of us it's about, but it's not. It's about "spreading the wealth" (so to speak) to those who built this country and came before us. The rich are sucking us dry and it's time to stop them.
And yeah, it's time to make the rich pay their fair share. They started this "class warfare" so, yeah. Of course we're going to fight back! But non-violently. It is of utmost importance that we do it non-violently.
Anyway, sorry for ranting :)
I'm disappointed in you DR. You plead with everyone else to challenge their belief systems then you go on a soapbox about how you've paid for social security and have it coming to you.
There is no social security account in your name, DR. It only works as a pay as you go system. If noone comes along with enough work and pay after you're ready to start dipping your hand into the little piggy bank that lives only in your imagination, then your social security doesn't exist. All the money you paid in is being paid out to people. It's all a promise of the future.
This system of debt and promises has proven it doesn't work when the promises are really based on faith alone. Challenge your belief systems DR - they ain't working.
And since you mentioned it - how about challenging your belief systems that communism is evil. I'm not saying yea or nay, but you're the one saying to challenge belief systems. Start with your own.
meanmckean: You have no idea the paradigm shifts I've gone through in my lifetime. You would be astounded.
I find it rather amazing, the extent to which you've grossly mischaracterized what I said based on what I recognize as Corporatist stereotypes of somebody you mistakenly believe is a liberal. I also recognize the cookie cutter Corporatist talking points you're spewing. I hear them constantly.
I know SS isn't an investment system. But don't you think I've made my contribution to society by working my butt off since I was 16? And, to be technical, there most certainly IS an SS account in my name. I get a statement with my name, address and SS number on it every year.
The money is not gone. It has been invested in Treasury Bills. Much of my 401k is also invested in T-Bills. Is that money gone? I also have money in the bank. I can't walk into the bank and get the cash I put into it. Is that money gone?
There was a B&W movie I saw a long time ago that attempted to educate people about how banks work when the first bank came to town. They were all freaked out when they discovered that the cash they had brought to the bank was no longer there and they thought the bank had lost their money. They had to be educated about how money is invested as, apparently, you do.
Next, you should educate yourself about how insurance works. We pay in money and that money gets paid to those who need it now. It's different from an investment system. That's what Social Security is. It's a "Social Insurance" program. It's the way civilized societies have worked for thousands of years (well, at least centuries anyway). We pay money to raise children and when we're old, our children pay money to support us. But it sounds like you don't want to be a member of a civilized society. Yes, it is merely a "promise". A promise that we, in a civilized society have always made to the generations that follow us. A promise that we make to our children.
It sounds like you don't want to be a member of society though. It sounds like you want to be a rough and tough independent who depends only on yourself. I understand that urge because I used to be a Libertarian. For almost 20 years, actually. But I urge you to join us and become one of the 99%. I urge you to set aside your anger against your fellow workers and focus it on the people who are really trying to destroy your life. We are not your enemy. I am not your enemy. There is no need for you to verbally assault me.
As for communism being evil, I don't believe I said it was evil. I believe I said we don't want it. We don't. Because we know from empirical experience that it doesn't work.
DRMartin - please, I am not in anyway demeaning you or questioning your judgment. And, yes, I have also leaned towards libertarian principles during my lifetime. I am only pointing out no matter how the government rearranges the chairs on the titanic, if there is no money flowing in from the current working class to fund the current SS recipients, the system does not function. To help make the point: http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/social-security-ponzi-scheme-chris-whalen-salutes-perry-183433526.html. I am not trying to argue about the benefits of pooling resources of the many to achieve common goals. Having had my special needs daughter who spent 9 weeks in the NICU fighting for her life, running up probably 1/4 million dollars in medical bills, I am not too arrogant to think I can achieve all things on my own. I shudder to think what Obamacare would have offered her and am thankful I had private insurance. My opinion is the government would have pulled the plug as an unnecessary expense.
The only point I am trying to make is I like your notion of challenging your belief systems. I'm trying to reset everything. I know from where you're coming, at least as a person who has worked all my life and is looking forward to my pension and my SS. I look at the balance of the promises regularly. However, I've always known from my yourth that those balances were a function of a fiat money system - and could easily be wiped out by a currency devaluation at the drop of a hat, or from many other events out of my control.
Also, in support of some of the protesters - I have to admit that while there are probably some misguided members just out to raise some hell, there are people in the movement with a legitimate cause. If I'm to believe any media reports, there are many young people who got an education, run up student loans, and cannot find work. I know your arguments, I've made them myselves. I've been railing about worthless college educations for years. But, we must admit not all college education is entirely worthless, and there are some kids who got educations for things in the past which were tried, true, reliable, but have had those jobs now disappear. I'm white collar, work in a large corporation, and can't tell you the last time we hired an "onshore" citizen for technology work. I count each and everyday I get a paycheck as a blessing now. Yes, I feel somewhat priveleged. I am concerned about the what comes next - but I know without a doubt it is coming. It is just a matter of time.
Your point about banking is spot on. People seem to be embracing runs on banks. You must realilze what damage that would do - without changes to the system and anything to fall back on - well, it wouldn't be pretty.
Again, I'm trying to personally challenge everything I've been taught, because seems to me nothing is working at the moment. So, if you tell me I am wrong, I will instantly agree with you. Most people do not like to admit they could possibly be.
meanmckean: Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I understand better where you're coming from. I've been there in some ways. My beliefs have changed radically since I was a teenager - in more ways than I can mention in public.
The one thing I would challenge you to rethink is government's role in healthcare. Up until about 5 or 6 years ago, I was opposed to single payer healthcare. Especially government run because I grew up during the era of Vietnam and Nixon and Reagan and came to think of government as inherently evil. As Reagan said, "Government isn't the solution to the problem, it is the problem" and "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help" (somewhat paraphrased I suspect).
But in the last 10 years I've begun to rethink all of my beliefs in that respect and have completely overturned many of them since the Great Recession. I now understand that we ARE the government (at least if we choose to be). If we believe the government is the problem, then we will MAKE government the problem. If we believe it can be the solution, then we will MAKE it the solution.
Personally, I've worked in government for about half of my career and my experience is that most of the workers who make the kinds of decisions about people's lives that you're talking about concerning your daughter really are conscientious people. Government really isn't the evil monster we've been taught it is for the last 30 years or so.
There is no doubt that the balance of powers is always a battle between government and corporations, between the poor and the rich. What I am, at my core, is neither Liberal nor Conseravtive but anti-power. I used to be Libertarian because I believed the government had too much power. I am now anti-Corporatist because I believe the Corporations and the rich have too much power. If the balance of power swings the other way, than so will I.
But I'm curious about your statement concerning "Obamacare" since it's not a matter of "would have offered her". His plan didn't offer any health insurance of any kind. It just offered reforms and regulations on the existing system. There was the so-called "Public Option" that some legislators tried to introduce but Obama was never really in favor of that and quickly traded it away for concessions from the Insurance Industry.
And the Public Option would surely have been better for those who currently have no insurance and it would have provided some real competition for the private insurance companies (which currently have exemptions to the anti-trust rules that virtually all other corporations must follow).
Personally, I've now come to feel that the greed motive which drives Private for-profit health insurance is worse than what we could create in a Public Option if we pay attention to our government and influence them accordingly. Believe me, the idea of providing health insurance for everybody scared me for many years and it was only reluctantly that I finally, grudgingly came to the conclusion that we are worse off by not providing health insurance for everybody and that our current for-profit system is out of control.
P.S. It's not my beliefs about the balance of power that have changed, it's that, IMHO, the balance of power has actually changed. I believe the government used to be too powerful and I believe that the corporations and the rich have now become too powerful.
DRMartin - I have no argument with anything you've wrote. I admit to not being an expert on so called Obamacare or any of the public health care debate. I didn't really follow it except from an occassional soundbite. Just an illustration that I'm not agin socialized insurance.
What I thought about yesterday in challenging my current beliefs about "the system" is how sad, and a bit misguided, and self absorbed the whole debate is. It kind of speaks to this occupy movement and the underlying motives. Up front, let me say again, I'm not out to demean anyone or cast judgement. I'm challenging the whole system. This movement is about the haves vs. the have nots, contrary to what postings say. If those promoting it, involved in it, had sufficiently more of the "have" they would not be on the street. What do they want by and large? Oh, let's oversimplify for the sake of argument, a job, opportunity for advancement, a reason to feel good about themselves. Those things based on my experience go a long way to keeping people content. Let's call that Jefferson's pursuit of happiness.
So, fast forward, they get what they want somehow, the economy turns, all is once again right with the world, folks are working, commerce is churning away. Back to occupy a house with a white picket fence rather than wall street. As you were comrade. Back to status quo, typical political bickering and problem solving...
In that rosy picture, pre 2007, sure, we know there were problems. We seek to solve some, healthcare, whatever. What's wrong with that picture to me? This desire that as a nation, we want to guarantee our folks a right to healthcare. For Christ's sake, sorry for my color, we're talking about doctor's visits, and we can't even yet guarantee every citizen, let alone every other human being on this planet a right to the most basic necessity of life - food. How arrogant and egotistical and selfish that seems to make us as a nation to me. Haves vs. Have Nots.
So, I just pondered some. What would that mean, if we as a species decided to take up that cause? I think such a cause would potentially rock the foundations of every institution we pat ourselves for inheriting from the founding fathers. I mean those men had definite genius, but they didn't dare consider putting that in the constitution.
We should stop looking at "the poor" as just a convenient phrase and dismissing them as "something that will always be with us", something seems Dave Matthews touched on in his song "Help Myself":
"A treasure not my own I take it, took it, nobody will notice Well that suits me well Big house, big yard, help myself, help myself Every once in a while To help the helpless comes into style"
As for me, it kind of makes me feel a little sick about myself about things I've stood for. To make matters worse, I have no answers. I can't even really formulate all the questions. But, I am going to think about it, I hope often. Seems to me we as a species really don't want to solve that problem, because we like unfairness, we like to have more than someone else and the chance to be better than the next guy. We don't all really want to be equal for we love inequality as long as we ain't living in the worst of it.
If you cannot Occupy YET, make it a priority to use all expendable income to support the Occupants. If you must work for The Man, use the few dollars he gives you against him.
I agree and I've helped and I'll be helping more financially since my health is too poor and I do have to work.
All the money I've donated to politicians, charities and various amenitites is now being diverted to this cause because I really, truly believe this is the tipping point. This is "the event" I've sensed coming for many years and it could tip one way or the other. And trust me, we DO NOT want it to tip in the wrong direction!!
I wish I could, I know they're starting one locally, I'm planning on helping to feed them
Expendable income???what's that? Oh my credit card...damn the man is makin money off my flipping interest by donating. Just kidding really donate and help out if you can't get down there.
I should have said IF you have any expendable income :)
Yeah what she said