Forum Post: Burn Credit Cards and Mortgage Day. Bring them to their knees!
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 17, 2011, 9:13 a.m. EST by GypsyKing
(8708)
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It's that simple folks, really. Problem solved.
Oh ya. So they can't find you if you don't have the card or mortgage papers. Because then the chip inside them is destroyed?
What are they going to do with 50 or 100 million people who refuse to pay - what could they possibly do but come to terms?
You will never get 50 million people to do this. I doubt you could even get 50,000.
Protest properly or don't do it at all. You are part of the reason OWS has a bad name.
Well, if you're David, and you're up against Golliuth (sp) you had better at least find a stone, and not just ask him kindly not to slowly choke you to death. Anyway, that was my suggestion for what it's worth. I gave it my best shot and I don't see that I really have much more to offer under my circumstances at the moment. I hope this nation finds a way to heal from it's ills - with liberty and justice for ALL.
Well there are things like lawsuits and court orders and the like to contend with. If you refuse to pay, but have the ability to, EVENTUALLY a court can order your property transferred to your creditor. Your bank accounts can be frozen and emptied and wages garnished.
Look you enter into a contract with these people. Either hold up your end or face the consequences. No one told you to get a card or buy a house. I pay my bills pay yours
it's simple, they take your home and your possessions and then make even more because you payed them and then they got it anyway. You are retarded, you must be part of this movement
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Um....I like my house. I'd like to stay living in it.........so as in intelligent human being..............NO
If you were the only one to do it, you would have a problem. If, say, 30% of Americans comitted to do it, the government and the corporations would say - okay we'll do anything you ask, just please don't destroy the goose that lays the golden egg for the 1%!
You're pretty funny. As someone with a 1% mindset I would happily eat the losses on those houses and pointedly NOT give anything to you idiots, simply to make sure that a precedent for this kind of behavior is not set.
Besides, dumbass, the odds of a bank actually owning your mortgage are pretty slim in this day and age. That's why even though it would cost less to modify the mortgage than to foreclose, they don't. Investors don't want to encourage this sort of behavior and are therefore not interesting in modifying loans.
I don't know, for someone with a "1% mind set" you got damned defensive, damned quickly, if you ask me.
It pisses me off when people seem to think they can inconvenience me with their dumb ass behavior. Why should I have to pay anything, be inconvenienced for a second, because you lazy good for nothing won't pay your bills?
Oh, you don't like to be "inconvienced" but you call other people lazy. Just who has the entitlement problem here, miss 1%? I bet you never worked a day in your life - but you will probably lie about that to because it's convienient.
I have the scars that say otherwise. Have you ever bled for your work? I think not. Most people DON'T know what its like to take a chance, risk their savings, work their ass off, and realize a huge gain for it. Why not? Because people are cowards and fools. This "movement" has done nothing but prove just how many cowards and fools we have in this country.
You inherited your money, just like 99% of the 1%.
HAA HAA OMG!!! That's hilarious. Yeah a truck driver and a homemaker (who are still alive, btw) managed to make enough to bequeath one of two daughters enough money to get her into the 1%.
That's the funniest thing I've heard in a long long time. Although why you think I make enough to be in the 1% is beyond me. I'm not even close to there. I'm comfortable at 50K a year. Between a job and rentals, I'll be fine.
That is not what you're previous words implied. You said you had the mindset of the 1%, and so I addressed you accordingly.
I do have the mindset of the 1%, I didn't say I had the bank account.
But if you want to be successful in this world, you emulate those who already have success.
You wouldn't know what real success in this world was if it bit you on the nose. You have a one track mind - money, money, money,money! And I would bet anything that you even go through the motions of being a Christian in that ludicrous way so many people do, who are really worse than those moneylenders Jesus chased out of the temple. But really, this is all too predictable and tedious, and off the subject to spend any further time on.
I wouldn't know real success huh? What is success then? It's certainly not sleeping in a filth ridden park in the middle of NYC I'll tell you that.
I am a builder and therefore I create the world I want to live in. It is the mindset that is required for success.
I'm sorry for your inability to infer the true meaning of life. I hope you are still young enough to do some serious soul searching. You will never be happy or satisfied traveling the road you're on. You, of course, would never believe I care about that, but I do. Good Luck wherever life takes you.
The true meaning of life is to build. To create. To not allow anyone else to determine how you live your life. I do what I will. And that is the true meaning of life.
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A company would buy up all your debt and garnish all your wages; just what would happen if a single person did it.
No, not if people did it in sufficiant numbers. They simply would be overwealmed by the logistical problems of enforcement, not to mention simply be intimidated by the level of resistance. They would have to come to terms because all they really care about is cash flow, and it would be less damaging for them to do so. Just the rumor of the serious intent of such an action would bring them to the bargaining table.
Intimidated? Really? I would hope they would come out swinging in full force so no precedent of success for this type of behavior was set. That's what I would do. Heck, I'd burn houses I foreclosed on to the ground and make the owners watch just to prove a point.
AND believe you me, if you pull that nonsense, us investors will simply come up with a company and plan to handle all this for the banks. We'll get rich, you'll be homeless, and the world will be as it should.
Thank you for revealing your true colors. It is that psycopathic outlook that is the reason you people have to go. I would recommend a long period of counciling. I bet even your own children, if you weren't to self-focused to want any, dislike you.
Nope, too busy for kids. Not fair for the kids. But I do detest those that willfully flaunt contracts. Contracts are the most sacred of all social constructs in the world. Violating one makes you the most vile.
Like the social contract you violated called The Constitution of the United States of America, you mean a contract like that?
The constitution has absolutely not been violated in the least. Please tell me where it has.
And don't give me that right to life, liberty, yadda yadda yadda BS. Nobody's putting you in jail. No one's torturing or killing you. You have the greatest country in the world with more freedoms than man has ever known in all it's history. You are more than able to pursue all the happiness you want to. You people just don't want failure to be an option. If you fuck up, you want society to save you; to keep you from starving. Well fuck you. You get into a mortgage over your head, YOU pay the consequences. You get a degree in some stupid liberal arts field, YOU pay for it by living in a box.
Bunch of liberal useless pansies you all are. I bet YOU never worked a job where you had to get your soft little hands dirty.
You can't even convince 5 people on the OWS site to join in your junior-high level plan but you still think you can get 50-100 million to follow you?
Yes, I do.
Start by posting a YouTube vid of you burning your credit cards.
The fact that there was comment at 9:11 this morning on the OWS home page stating "Opening bell delayed!" demonstrates that you morons are protesting something you neither understand nor have taken the time to learn about. There is nothing more pathetic than a misinformed, lazy "revolutionary." Go occupy your mother's basement.
The problem is you can't see the forest for the trees.
STAY VIGILANT, STAY HEALTHY AND STRONG, STAY UNIFIED. Listen to the concerns of the 99%. Gain their support and their numbers. Use all sources of media to communicate and unify.From every large city, to every small town, in every state in this country, it is time to stop being cattle in a field. Keep yourselves healthy,a wounded warrior diverts energy from the cause.When your numbers are large, in unity, boycott the corporations one at a time .Demand reductions in management salaries and cost of services and goods to consumers. Do not settle for reduction in labor to reduce cost, demand management salary reductions. Unified nation wide boycotts by the population are powerful. Police yourselves, keep your dignity and pride , show and use your intellect to create a harmonious unity that resonates across this country and moves its population like the most moving rendition of the "Star Spangled Banner" ever heard. THIS IS YOUR COUNTRY.
Or just organize a nationwide repudiation of debt that was in violation of the longstanding prohibition of loansharking, and wait for the creeps to come to you on bended knee and give you whatever you demand, it's up to you?
Does anyone else find it bizarre how the government directly deposits social security into a bank and then borrows money from a bank to fund social security shortfalls? You really think you can bring an organization with that kind of power to it's knees by simply walking away from your current debt? (A debt that, I might add, you entered into voluntarily)
Take your money and SS check from the national bank and put it in the community bank. If millions of a national banks clients do this they will listen. Have faith and stay unified.
I am not in debt, and even if I was I couldn't do any such thing, but the simple truth is that money doesn't mean anything other than the ability to enforce the cooperation of other people to do your bidding. If people, in mass, determine that the system does not reflect reciprical benefit, then they can change the economic order by doing nothing more than not cooperating. And I will tell you that those with the money have a lot more of it to lose, and therefore a lot more incentive to compromise than those who already know how to endure the visissitudes of want.
The problem with this idea is that it will destroy your credit. I know for a fact that when putting in for a job most places will do a background check. In todays world bad credit will sink your chances for getting a job. They are doing checks even in little jobs or places like Home Depot. Everyplace does them. If you have terrible credit you will not get the job period. Anymore its just as bad as being arrested or failing a drug test. I'm not trying to scare you, I know these things from my last job in the Fed Gov. You will fail the background check. Everyone today wants folks with a clean credit score because to them if you do not, you are not realible and could steal from the company or just not be honest. I've seen it happen many times. If you cannot handle your credit, how could you handle a job? That is what they are thinking.
No, it will change the entire dynamic because your creditors will then mostly be behind bars once they are brought to justice for their criminal actions and are forced to pay reparations to those they have robbed blind with illegal and unethical lending practices. It's called the rule of law, and we better damn well reinstate it, or we are in real trouble! The power, believe it or not, really is with the people if they only unify and act in a concerted effort, and this is it, It will alter the system. If we are afraid to do this then we never should have started this in the first place. And if we don't carry it through believe me, these sociopaths will exact reprisals on us all. You think things are bad now, just wait until they feel they once again have a secure upper hand. Better learn to live in a garbage dump like they do in Brazil!
You know, no one is robbing me. I have good credit so my interest rates are low. I don't buy what I can't afford. I have no problem with banks. At all. Now it I have terrible credit that is another story. Then money is going to cost more because I would be a greater risk. If you buy a ton of stuff like an Iphone that you do not need, and go into debt, they you will have terrible credit real fast. I know some young folks that put a $40,000 swimming pool on a credit car!!!! Now they may lose their hose two years later. Just dumb.
Well, in the world right now it will ruin your credit. You will not get a good job. Even a secuurity guard that makes only $8.00 per hour gets a background check. And I think it is a good thing so we dont get crazy gate guards on the take. Even in the future after you win there will be credit checks, banks, jobs and high security jobs. Even after you win you will need realible people. Even after you will still have the military. Even after you win you will still hjave war. Even after you win you will still have police to keep the peace. Even after you win we will have Homeland Security. Even after you win we will have the FBI and the CIA and the NSA. You will not want folks who have been to prison for laundring money handling OWS money. You will still have rules.
Are we men, or are we mice? " The fault lies not in our stars but in ourselves that we are bondsmen." Can't you see the difference between working hard for your own society, for your own future, for your own children, and from suffering the humiliation of knowing that all your effort will ever produce will be for the society, future and children of those who hold you in contempt. Have American men really been reduced so low in just 50 years? Who was it that said "I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees?" Was it a communist? Christ! Nevermind!
I'm sorry that you are not happy. I am happy. I have a family that loves me. I have little debt. I pay my bills. I go to the mountains. I go on road trips. My bank does not bother me. I also have a credit union for my car loan. I drive older cars. I am old but I am still working at a part time job. I find that if I do the best job possible then my boss will keep me. I don't call in sick. I never get fired. And my grown kids have learned from me. They are going to school and they are on the right track with money. Life is good. It is what you make of it. I come from a family of workers. We have had jobs and work hard for our family for generations. If I lost my job tomorrow I could find another right away doing something because I have the best track record possible. In my job that I have now, we have this one young kid who has been with us for 3 months and has called in 8 times sick. Can't wait till the dirtbag gets fired! I hope he and his Mom have to live in a cardboard box!
I am very happy with my life, but that doesn't enable me to simply look the other way at rampant injustice, greed and cruelty to others, and if it did I would neither deserve my happiness, or long preserve it. I am glad you are happy, people should be happy, or at least have some measure of happiness, all people.
If you really think about it there has always been bad guys trying to take from the poor. A country can have revolution one after another and the same stuff happens. Look at Mexico for example....after a terrible revolution about 1917 there abouts, after zillions were killed, it just went right back to a country on the take. You will always have banks with bad guys. Always. As long as there is money you with have folks trying to take it. Always. Even if OWS wins, you will have bad guys trying to skim off the top. Always. Human nature. Just the way it is. America has a ton of problems that is for sure. But I've been to many other places and this place is still the best by far. You can still open a hot dog stand, sell the best dogs in the city, people will find out word of mouth and soon you can open 5 more hot dog stands. And you can still become a millionaire if you work hard and do things right. Only in America!
I respect the civil tone of your discourse, and also the fact that you believe that that is still true in this country. I believe the deck is now stacked in favor of the house. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. But it has been refreshing to have an exchange that is not simply a matter of hate-filled, irrational invective:)
Likewise, I wish you well.
Everybody please see the way this plan stirred the hornets nest. They really, really feel threatened by this one. Do it, and the battles over. We can all get back to living in a decent democracy again, and put the wealthy who are criminals where they belong. Wealth is fine - criminal, sociopathic wealth has to be curbed!
It actually works... I stopped paying a mortgage several years ago. The only thing is, now the town sends the tax bill straight to me :-)
Let them send the bills to a hundred million of us and see what good it does them if we just throw those bills in the trash! What, are they going to build a prison the size of Montana? And who would not side with us anyway, or try to enforce that, the military? I don;t think so! These people like to shoot down veterans and mace old ladies!
Look man, I feel bad for folks that had responsible mortgages, lost their jobs, of had some calamity and are in foreclosure. The folks that bought into the sucker loans... sorry, somebody tried to sell me one of those. The only way you buy into one of those is if the salesman uses your own greed to sucker you in.
They have stolen your government man! They have sent innocent kids to die in wars so they could profit from them. This is about way more then unscrupulous loans, it's about perserving the tradition of American liberty!
I'm assuming you mean you stopped paying as in you paid it off in that case.
Oh of coarse I paid it off! I wouldn't put my responsibilities onto someone else's shoulders.
Yay!!! I can't wait until this one is paid off. I have the other two I own free and clear. I just need this last one done.
I have a mortgage and have always paid my taxes directly to the to the town.
Move to Greece. They have it AWESOME over there. You can do like a half-day's work and get paid for a full day! You don't have to pay taxes (well you should, but they don't enforce it, sweet) You can retire super early! And you don't have to be smart or hard-working or anything, you won't even get fired! Kind of like in France. It's so cool just to have large groups of people at 'work' just sitting around, shooting the breeze, no pressure to put forth effort from "the man". Totally awesome!
Does anyone watch the news? Greece... deficit... riots... president forced out... money mismanaged in that no one paid for anything, including the government who defaulted on everything... No. Or are the 'AWESOME' assumptions of countries based on vacation visits... paid for in part with a credit card.
France has the highest standard of living in the world too, pretty awesome alright!
Are you kidding? The highest standard of living! Please post some proof.
I was in France back in the late 80s and coined the term 2nd world, because they weren't a 3rd world country, but they sure as hell were not 1st world either. Unless things have really improved over there I find it hard to believe!
If you can't see the inherent value to the human standard of living, of a city like Paris, and define" standard of living" entirely as the cash you have in your bank account, than I can't explain it to you. I'm sorry.
People piss in the streets in Paris. At least they did in the late 80s... maybe they've discovered public restrooms since then.
You do realize that tax in France is 50%, right? Which is why they have the highest standard of living - taxes pay for everything. I highly doubt a proposal to increase tax to 50% in return for a high standard of life would go over well with anyone that's part of this 'movement'.
The point is political leverage. What can we use to gain the leverage necessary to get these people to conceed to ANYTHING we want them to do. Right now we have nothing. Adopt that plan and it is very unlikely we would even have to resort to actually doing it. We simply say "reform the corruption, or else." The difference is that our demand would then have teeth in it, rather than just supplicating, which these criminal types just have contempt for.
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They're French. NOBODY wants to be the French.
Everybody wants to be the French! For one thing, some of them still understand the difference between liberty and slavery.
Also, France is in pretty bad economic shape because of all their ridiculous social spending. Have you seen the gap between German and French bonds as of yesterday? The market realized how much trouble their in, do you?
Yeah, they're almost in half as bad shape as we are. The difference is, even if they go broke they'll still have a country worth living in, because they aren;t so stupid as to assume money is the only thing of value in this world. By the way, I've heard enough of you. Spew your selfish diatribe at somebody who thinks what you have to say matters, if you can find one.
But I do matter. It is those like me who run and own this world. It is me you're supposedly standing up to, remember? My kind does not need handouts, hand holding, or anything else from our nanny government. We do not need, nor wish to have, the guarantee of food or shelter. We can build what we need and we will thrive regardless of the conditions you throw us in. We are neither the 1% nor the 99%. We just want everyone to stay the fuck out of our way.
You are the most vulnerable people of all, because you need someone else to do EVERYTHING for you. You couldn't tie your own shoes without someone who has actually had to deal with the world to help you, and we're tired of mollycoddling you. Your desire for a handout from us has worn out it's welcome:)
Oh please. I do everything for myself. I'm the most adamant DIY I know. How many girls you know roof their own houses? Do their own siding?
Please. My household is the most self sufficient I know. Unless we're talking heart surgery, we don't hire anyone to do anything.
No, they have no liberty. Being handed everything by your government is not liberty. Never was, never will be.
No, they're lazy too. I guess everybody is lazy but those who actually did have everything handed to them, by which I mean the 1%.
Very few of the 1% got there by just being born you know. The vast majority of the 1% came from middle class families, started businesses, and are now part of the 1%. And for as many jobs as they provide, they should be exempt from paying taxes ever. There aren't as many Waltons in this world as you think.
Look, I have no problem with people working hard and living well off the results. but both you and I know that that is not the issue here, and you're pretending not to understand is just disingenuous, and renders further argument on your part a matter of little credibility. Why do you people think you need to eat the whole world? Is the void in your soul really that cavernous, like the haunted, sandflats of some vast ocean. Look around you, there is much in this world that is actually worth perserving. You don't have to destroy everybody and everything to feel special and safe. Try loving something just once, even if it's just a thistle or a seashell, and youll see it's just as beautiful as a Ming Dynasty vase. For God;s sake, you are destroying life on this planet with your greed! Open your heart!
I am hardly destroying the world. In fact my whole business is on taking trash houses, fixing them up, and making them livable again. In neighborhoods that desperately need that kind of investment too I might add. I get rent money every month in return for my investment. That's how it works. I can't speak for companies that ruin the environment or anything like that. But I do know that the ONLY way you will get them to stop is to pass laws restricting the behavior and to have regulatory agencies that are adequately funded. Which means raising taxes on everyone.
Your whole interpretation of the meaning of life, your whole fear-based, misguided soulless outlook is destroying the world, if what you said about having the outlook of the 1% is true. It is a spiritual death, a soul death.
I have no fear. First rule of success right there, no fear. I'm not soulless, but I will not tolerate those who's word has proven valueless. I do not rent to those who I have good reason to believe they could pay their mortgage but walked away anyways. I don't rent to those who don't pay their credit cards on time. I don't rent to those who can't show up for an initial showing on time.
I think there are larger issues at stake here than whether or not you can rent your apartments, and in any case, like so many people who "have the mindset of the 1%,"all you appear to care about in this whole world is you.
Well I'm not going to rent to someone who I think may not pay the rent and therefore put my household in jeopardy. I'm sorry, but I cannot allow that.
But it goes from that micro condition and it extends to the macro. Not paying your credit cards and not paying your mortgage might be legal, but it also means you are not a person of your word.
Okay, that last point is valid and so I will respond. If you owe money to a landlord, or to a smalltown banker whose integrety you respect, by all means pay it. But if you were defrauded by a gigantic faceless corporation that doesn't care whether you live or die, as long as they can get the blood out of you - well you see where I'm going with this. We have reached the end of our tollarence with this kind of legally santioned thievery, and we can put a stop to it.
There hasn't been widespread fraud in banks though. People signed mortgages they shouldn't have. People used credit cards they shouldn't have. All under their own free will with the terms clearly spelled out for them. Fraud indicates the bank hid something. Nothing is hidden from the people who got mortgages and credit cards. And what would happen if you didn't pay was also clearly spelled out. So what's the problem?
Bring who to whose knees? if you don't want to borrow money then don't...I like having a bank provide a service I need
Great, stay a slave.
You wouldn't know the definition of "slave" if a dictionary bit you on the ass!
Whose slave? I made the choice and I accepted the terms and both the bank and I have lived up to our commitments. My family ends up benefitting, the bank and the bank's employees and other client's did as well. I chose a socially responsible bank who in turns helps fund my community with my deposits. Unfortunately banking in its most basic form is suprisingly misunderstood by those who wish to make change. Until you understand the problem, I suggest you refrain from making a recommendation.
Yeah, just let concentrated money corrupt our government and destroy our planet so that you can have a shallow sense of self-riteousness. That's a good plan.
not shallow, responsible. I wonder, do you keep all of your possessions in a suitcase and then barter for your wares? Are you using a PC or mobile device to respond to me that you bought with cigarettes? Are you communicating over a network that was also provided for with a swap for new shoes? I suspect instead you used a credit card and pay for your internet service using another account. Even if you used cash, the role of the bank is introduced. If I am self - righteous, then my friend you are a hypocrite. Frankly a fraction of this focus and energy directed responsibly at the folks who can make infromed change is all that is needed. Piling up on Wall St and stuffing the streets chanting will rectify little.
I am glad you guys are out here. I am. But I think this protest is destined to fizzle because you guys don't stand for anything, you only stand against things, and even that stance is nebulous and not unified. You should take the protest beyond the tent city and spark a movement of people's money. You should start a movement to get people to shift their deposits, mortgages, and credit cards from the Top 10 banks to small banks and local credit unions. You should strike deals with these smaller banks so that in exchange for all of this new business, the small banks would waive fees (ATM fees charged by non-network locations in particular) and offer OWS introductory rates for their new-found customers. Although the bottom 80% of Americans only represent 7% of all financial wealth in this country, the bottom 90% represent 42% of deposits and 73% of all debt. I guarantee you the banks would sit up and take notice -- and be ready to deal -- if Occupy Wall Street started a movement that actually moved the needle on these deposits and debt relationships. Also, this would give something for the overwhelming majority of people to take part in that are simply not willing to occupy a downtown tent city in winter. You could then leverage the protests into something beyond the voices of a few to become the actions of the many. It would fundamentally change our country.
Yes, you understand my point. They would like us to think they don't need us, but if we don't cooperate there will be no sheep for them to sheer, and since their real passion is in feeling a completely undeserved thrill of superiority, they will become infuriated and bargain rather than lose that kind of cheap thrill. (I'm not talking about small businesspeople, or self-made contractors here, either, and they damned well know it! A lot of people posting here pretend we don't know what we want, or who the criminals really are, but they know all right! Those who oretend not to are liars.)
Since it's very difficult for most people to suddenly burn their credit cards and risk eviction/homelessness by quitting their mortgage the majority might seriously consider doing it SLOWLY. Recall the recent announcement that 7% on Italy's debt was considered 'unsustainable' likewise, the interest on your credit cards and/or mortgage should never exceed that either and one way to 'correct' the problem is definitely to go 'off the grid' in terms of traditional financial instruments. There are individuals and groups which offer 'private money' and these range from your own immediate family and friends, the private home seller willing to 'carry financing' at lower qualifying rates to what are known as portfolio lenders which can have qualifying guidelines (at their discretion) that meet or beat standard lending guidelines with a bit more flexibility depending on the amount of risk they are willing to incurr.
For the last 10+ years I personally have weaned myself from all credit cards, husband has been off of credit cards for the last 8 years and we rent: our current debt to income ratio for housing is around 35% and general living expenses including auto insurance approaches and fluctuates to 65% which we are constantly trying our best to keep closer to 50% through discount shopping/coupon usage.
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-Community Outreach that replaces government provided social programs. In experiencing the inefficiencies of public assistance programs I can easily see the possibilities of small to large PRIVATELY owned businesses coordinating a nationwide effort to train, feed, clothe and medically assist the nation's displaced/unemployed/unemployable populations. Yes, there are private foundations which do these things but due to their individuality those who are among the nation's displaced/unemployed/disabled/unemployable not infrequently are unaware of them and more likely rely on the inefficient public programs that require considerable paperwork, red tape and excessive time/waiting lines.
Everyone commenting here, and most people in America still, I think, are opperating under the assumption that the system can't be changed, and therfore, that if they did such a thing as I avocate they would be "punished." That assumption means that you yourself don't really think you could ever be free - in which case this effort is already lost, and that we are just playing games here; and I got NO TIME for games and game players! OWWWW - you're afraid you might have to risk something to change the world - Bo hoo hoo! You might have to suffer a little social stigma in the process - Bo hoo hoo! Now you know why we Americans aren't taken seriously by anybody anymore! We've become too soft and spoiled for social conflict! They turned us into a buch of gutless, equivocating, 300 pound couch-potatoes who wouldn't endure a hangnail for the sake of our convictions, even if we still had any. I had ancestors who fought and died in three bloody, horrible, wars to perpreserve this countries liberty. I've suffered social stigma all my life for the determination to hold onto that dream, so if that's the way people feel about it I am REALLY SORRY I ever wasted one miniute here on all this baby talk!
LAST WORDS FROM ME HERE . . . I GAVE YOU A SOLUTION THAT WOULD WORK, QUICKLY, AND WITHOUT BRUTALITY- ONE THAT ONLY TAKES GUTS - SO DO SOMETHING COURAGEOUS, THAT WORKS . . . or admit that you, my middle American friends, who read this when no on is looking, but wouldn't stick your neck out to comment here, or even to stand-up for your own children, send these kids back home, or back to being homeless, or to whatever pointless futures they must face because you can't be bothered to lift one finger for ANYONE but yourselves! The whole lot of you are lazy, sickening, cowards! Hey, how does it feel to have someone tell you the truth. You let little girls fight your wars for you, and take the rap for a government craven enough to sink to torture. There simply isn't any bottom to the moral degeneracy of a nation that was just 50 years ago the light of the world. Join these courageous kids, or crawl back in your sewer and rot!
Please re-read my post and consider Aesop's Fable of The Tortoise and The Hare. It's true that many are not equipped for efforts of sudden change and this is why our economy has taken from 1938 to the present to get to it's current state. The elites know this and through SLOW change of society through the media,politics and the educational systems the American public has been led to where it is socially,culturally,politically and economically.
Thankfully theOWS movement has awakened citizens of every persuasion to seek out solutions and effect change.
Don't begrudge those who are limited in their ability to make changes however small-collectively and as long as the commitment is for a long term effort to assist in change I'd rather have millions of supporters making as much effort as they are comfortable with doing over a 25plus year period than a few thousand making a dramatic but short lived effort thus effecting little to no change.
P.S. I too have Veterans in my family-Father served in Vietnam and Uncle in Korea. Thank you for your service.
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Unfortunately, smelly broke hippies burning credit cards is no different than burning your socks