Forum Post: Bridge to the Ground
Posted 11 years ago on Feb. 25, 2013, 11:02 p.m. EST by ProblemSolver
(79)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Anyone want to discuss this ?
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Watching this unravel has been delightful.
[Deleted]
I've seen enough and I have a very long memory.
[Deleted]
Watching you hijack OWS? Oh, this will be beautiful.
[Deleted]
Exactly what I said. This is going to be beautiful.
[Deleted]
Good. You're going to need to rely on that.
Heres your Bridge.
http://www.nycga.net/events/occupydata-hackathon/
form the same group in your town ifyou can't attend.
Learn how through this link
Get involved.
Not just another debt relief plan
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I am sorry if I sound like I'm on the attack, but these are my opinions:
I have attended hundreds of OWS meetings since October 2011
Perhaps unlike many others, I'm not in OWS to discuss theory & philosophy
I am here to get something done for the 99%
I have seen working groups with 50 attending members disappear
I have seen thousands of hours of hard work killed by consensus
I have seen many plans stymied by "leaderlessness"
I have seen thousands of hours of working groups working on
...impossible methods to reach impossible goals.
I have seen hundreds of people GIVE UP when their goals are not reached
pardon my flaunting my ignorance, but I don't know what "bridge to the ground" is. I would think there are others who are puzzled by
this, and puzzled by other terms that we use. I plead guilty to this - sometimes I use CP for corporate personhood. I have seen "Art 5" for "Constitution's Article V Constitutional Convention".
If "bridge to the ground" means bringing back the thousands of ex-members or millions of others, we need to PRAGMATICALLY concentrate on what most Americans want - not what we want.
consider:
If you had a REALISTIC plan to lower all food costs by 20%, how many people would come to that meeting?
If you had a plan to make greed illegal how many people would come to that meeting?
Are we here to discuss our pet economic policy, or our political policy,
or our electoral policy, our pet theory?
OR
are we here to improve America for the 99% ?
Get back to the roots of "The Shit is Fucked Up" and leave all the partisan nonsense behind. Thats what brings the people out.
I realize you want to get something done, but that depends on working with the government, which most Americans have no desire to do.
Leaders outside the current political spectrum will appear when they are needed. As of now, the populace isnt engaged. "When the student is ready to learn, the teacher appears"...
The two things you listed would be taken care of if the bankingcartel/fed were addressed. "Banks got bailed out, we got sold out" is something that everyone can relate to, regardless of political ideology. It was powerful. And it was true. People marching and chanting it all over the country. Its still true.
It appeals to those who vaguely understand whats going on. And it appeals to those who have a deep understanding of whats going on.
And its why they shut everything down. Dems shut it down, Reps shut it down. It was getting to the core of all the economic issues- the money.
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Cool. How are you going to deal with union busting activites?
[Deleted]
Identify some for us, please. Some people can't be fired so easily, so we need to know who they are.
[Deleted]
That's not a solution and it's certainly not an answer.
In fact, it's a problem. A problem, unsolved.
[Deleted]
What does that have to do with union busting? That goes on all over the nation.
[Deleted]
So you're not actually going to solve any problems, you're just going to play a vague blame game.
Please explain how unions created the situations in cities like Detroit.
[Deleted]
Kind of like a guy with a handle about problem solving, that can't solve a problem?
Arrogance isn't really an answer to the question. It's a cop out and it's one that applies to the corporations that caused issue after issue.
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What matters is what people need to discuss, not what they want to discuss. This is not an entertainment venue. Our words here are work! We all need to discuss the Bridge to the Ground. It's vital to Occupy's survival. It's the most important idea we can discuss on this forum.
Tell us what it is about.
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This is by far, the best post you have written here, Thras. Lets hope you haven't done so much damage, that people will work on it with you.
Sincerely, thank you.
If it's a good idea, the perceived damage I have done will not matter. The idea can survive without my involvement. If people want, they can come together and turn this idea into reality. Whether I participate or not will make little difference.
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Insulting me behind my back?
How cowardly of you.
So now you're know to be totally dishonest and a coward.
Glib and verbose are your major talents.
Will you be offering honestly any time soon?
[Removed]
I disagree, the issues are the ideas that trump all others for Occupy. This is a social movement, not a political movement. And, Americans will not become active in any movement if they don't understand the issues and if they think they live in the greatest country on earth while they're digging out of a garbage can to survive.
The inner workings and power struggles within OWS, that you want to highlight all the time, are meaningless to the average American. What we need to do is get Americans to, one, understand their plight, and two, understand that their plight is not their fault. Of course this is about the bankers and politicians!
Your second sentence challenges your first. Issues are the domain of politics. Global participation is the domain of a social movement. Every single issue Occupy has brought to the table is indeed important, but there are already many groups that deal with those. Anti-capitalization was not born with Occupy. Not at all. What was born with Occupy is the idea that we can all participate together to find solutions to these issues. The idea that we can make a better world by ourselves, for ourselves; that we don't necessarily need politicians to do it for us.
Power and meaning are born when the ideas of people can be translated to actions. The idea of the Bridge to the Ground is to push this as far as possible. To give power to Americans by giving them a platform of discussion which translates to real actions. We have that on the ground with affinity groups, but we don't have it on the Internet. This limits our growth.
This website is the main forum for Occupy. Perhaps you have noticed that the number of users and hits has been dwindling in the last year. A quick look on Alexa will confirm this. The reason is simple, what is being discussed here as no affect in real life. These are discussions that have no power and meaning because they cannot affect change.
A simple idea for a community created website is to have a list of tasks to accomplish. This idea works great in the world of programming. Open source software list the things that have to be done, and strangers that come to github or other sites where that code is hosted can participate by doing those things.
We need a list on the web of tasks that need be done to help the various affinity groups, and Occupy in general. Perhaps an article needs to be written. Perhaps a poster needs to be done. Perhaps an event needs advertising. Etc... This can be done with the Bridge to the Ground. This can be done by connecting members of affinity groups to Internet users throughout the world.
It's by giving the power of action to the average Americans, the world citizen actually (Occupy is not just in US), that we will get them interested. As I stated before, not everyone can make it to a face-to-face general assembly. Some cities just don't have them. These people need a window that lets them do stuff for Occupy. Real stuff, not just empty discussions. A well crafted community website would permit this.
This is a community website. Anyone can post here who follows the rules.
Sure, but that's not my point. We need a site where what we post can have an impact on what Occupy does in terms of actions. Else, it's just spit in the wind. Nobody takes this site seriously because what is said here cannot be translated into action. This site is not a window into Occupy, it's a dead end. That's why people here just play games and insult each other. They never debate in serious fashion.
And, you don't have to worry. This site can remain for those who only want to spit in the wind. The new Bridge to the Ground site which will be community made and run, and which will be the hub for the Occupy inter-connection can be a new site. They can both co-exist.
You are a broken record.
You don't have any arguments, so you resort to ad hominem? How lame is that.
This can be your bridge.
http://www.aol.com/video/emails-suggest-jpmorgan-chase-hid-mortgage-flaws/517666713/
Attend the event,
Organize an event in your town to coincide.
Learn how to through the above link.
Email this event/or yours.
Use this forum to advertize the event.
And there you have a bridge. No need for a new forum, or recreate the wheel. Just bring the street activism to the forum and it can be the bridge you claim you want.
You're welcome.
I am trying to understand your message ..
You feel if everyone interested in making change in our system of governemnt , politics, economics,.. etc .. were to have a place they can go and express their ideas ..and contribute what they have .. and ..somehow this gets funnelled directly to those people out there waving flags and carrying banners ..that somehow this increased support will make a difference .. somehow ..
You believe it is the people on the 'ground' that will inevitably be the ones to convince Congress there is a flaw in our system ..
Or, perhaps the people on the ground just need a little added support and encouragement .. and with a direct line .. a 'bridge' they will recieve tremendous support.
Well, such a website wouldn't be too difficult to create.
This forum/ website has been a melting pot for ideas and discussion .. and a lot of great contributors have come and went.. I agree much may be lost .. buried deep in the database.. perhaps someday to be studyied closely .. by a historian in the 25th century .. but for now .. who's really listening.. !
Thrasmaque, you have worked very hard.. I have watched some of your contributions.. you are vigorous .. energetic .. and you almost take over the forum when you are here.. perhaps a bit disruptive and cruel in some of your remarks.
You should consider your approach .. your 'bridge to the people approach' find a positive use for your natural talents.
A website can be built , but I would recommend , instead of a bridge to the ground, we need a bridge to Congress .. where the people all around the world can come together on one website and funnell their force straight at our Representatives ..
We need a website with the ability to draw up the concerns of the people , the grievences .. and directly petiton the government with these grievences .. as granted by the United States Constitution.
A website capable of creating petitions, and applying signatures for validity..
A website moderated directly by its participants. With Petitions developed by its participants.
A website that would give the true voice of the people .. a chance to be heard ..
We don't want moderators .. Moderators equates to censorship.
The mainstream media Censors the peoples voice ..
We must eliminate censorship.
Anyone agreeing with a particular Petition can add their name ..
Our greatest strength will be the amount of names on those petitions .. nothing else.
Thrashy , I appoint you to build such a website ..
You have thirty days .. get busy
While a "bridge to congress" has a nice connotation, I feel that a "bridge to each other" (the voters) would be a better goal. It is the informed voter that scares governments, gets attention and action. It has always been the voter who really has the power, yet we fail to use it responsibly over and over again.
The Bridge to Congress would be where voters can meet/ unite together.. this is the twenty first century , we don't have to stand out in the rain in order to discuss political issues .. or decide a best course of action. We can do it right here on the internet.. with a well laid out website, and 24 hour access, voters can come together from across the nation..
Yes Congress knows the power the people would have if we united . The Elite knows this as well. They have been doing everything they can to prevent a people / voters convention . Everything they can to prevent any form of estblished organization taking root.Because that is all it would take..
Congress has no plans of ever creating equality or fairness. They are well aware of the trillions being stashed by the Elite .. and have done nothing to prevent any of it .. and never will.
We have to give up hope in our Government. They do not have good intentions for the people.We must accept this , and act accordingly. We must create a new government.
Well within our Constitutional rights. An Article V convention was designed to specifically prevent the absolute power of any standing Government. It was to prevent Absolute Power. Especially in times such as these , where the Government has become ineffectual to the welfare of the people.
I disagree that we need to form a new government. We just need to fix what we have, vote responsibly and remove those who interests lay elsewhere. Just vote them out and there is nothing they can do about it.
All existing power is with the voter unless we fail in our duty to retain it.
It's a nice song to sing .. the voter has all the power.. I guess that is why .. the Elite have all the money.. those damn voters .. why did they give all the money to the Elite .. they should have spread it out a little more evenly .. what were they thinking .. ah well .. I guess the voter knows best .. after all they voted for the government we have .. and we all know how wonderful they are .. filling the pockets of the Elite like that .. and maybe a little of their own pockets .. hey way to go voters .. you truly do have power ..
Your answer supports my comment. The informed, independent voter is not the problem, rather the robot voter is. And they are exactly the ones to blame. Explain to me why congress has an approval rating less than a cockroach yet most get re-elected repeatedly. "Everyone is bad except mine" mentality! Can not vote for a black person, cannot vote for a white person, can not vote for a republican, democrat, etc. ah, but we can and we should vote with our own minds, and not just do as we are told. Elected officials are scared to death of this thought. And unless we take responsibility of our actions, then we are to blame what we have. What makes us so afraid of change? What is it that we can not get our selves to do; vote for the best candidate, rather than the party or suggested candidate? What is preventing good people from running for office? We need to answer and solve these issues in order to change the system from within.
I do agree with you , the voter does have all the power.. unfortunately it seems to make no real difference who we elect.. They all cater to the Elite in the end , because it is the Elite whom create the jobs .. So the government is forever giving the Elite tax breaks to help create jobs .. and keep investors happy.. With this system it doesn't really matter who gets in .. We really do need a new system. Sure some of the previous mechanisms may have merit.. voting is the only safe way to make a large group decision .. but as you say .. it should be well informed voting. If the outcome were to affect everyone equally , you can bet the voters would be well informed ..
What really should be voted on is an idea , and not a person. We should be voting on a plan.. which course of action to take .. The government officials should merely have the responsibility of carrying out the peoples vote.. and informing the public which is the best course of action prior to voting.. But we really don't have that..
Thanks for the comment
Thank you. I do agree that we should vote the idea pr solution or plan. we can only hope that we can get agreement on the " plan" .
Well, with Democracy to move forward with an 'idea or plan' we really only need a majority ..and if we have a World Wide plan built on fairness and equality.. the votes will come pouring in ..
Once the public is made aware of a 'good plan', implementation becomes inevitable.
Is the hour-coin system a good plan, I believe it is. It throws out the tax collecting budget system ..and replaces that with an unlimited mechanism of printing as much money as we need for education and employment. Creating opportunity abound. And that's only the beginning..
I look forward to further discussion of your hour coin proposal, but that's for another post and another day.
It keeps coming back to the hour-coin !
I agree with all your bullet points near the end, except for the idea that I should build this website. First, it should be planned by the community. It must be a project in which everyone is welcome to participate. Once a plan is set for the website, a plan we have worked on together, then it should be setup in github and every programmer will be welcomed to contribute code.
We don't need to convince the Congress there is a flaw in the system. They already know this. We need to convince ourselves that we don't need Congress. What we need is the participation of thousands of people.
Not so much that increased support will make a difference. It's more like the increase of meaning this website would acquire by being connected to the active reality of Occupy would elevate the discussions to new heights. Then we would start getting somewhere.
No one is listening because the ideas here cannot be put into practice. If we were connected to the real life activities of Occupy, then the ideas here would get better and people would listen.
No, you are appointed to build the first draft.. and than .. you may have a suggestion box on the site ..for ideas .. on the sites attributes ..and performance .. which can than be considered and discussed openly .. but remeber.. the site must accomplish its main objective.
Get busy , build the site .. and if you have a few questions don't hesitate to post them here on the forum. GO !
I don't like this method because the first draft will greatly influence the types of suggestions i will receive. The idea must first be discussed at length by the community without having been contrived by myself in any way. Once many ideas have been tabled, a small committee of professionals like social experts, programmers, website UI experts, philosophers of democracy, etc... can review these ideas and prepare a first draft for the community to vote on.
This is a huge project. It needs to be planned very carefully. It's not something that's done in one month's time. The planning phase alone could take many many months.
By "this community" you refer to those of us who remain on this site?
Or in the broader #ows community?
The broader #ows community, and anyone new who wants to join.
I am sure the people on the ground don't like the method neither; sleeping on the cold ground , standing out in the wet cold rain , enduring countless hours of .. no end in site. But they are out there and what keeps them out there ? because they know they are right .. they know the system is flawed and needs attention .. and they can not let that feeling go.
And they need us as much as we need them.
They need us to do our part . Our part in connecting directly to Congress , taking action where it counts the most. They are willing to stand out there in the rain .. I don't envy their plight.. If we sit back and watch them whither away .. watch them wear dowmn .. with excuses of ' I don't like the method, .. I'm not doing it , .. ' than those people on the ground are truly on the ground .. and the 'Bridge to the Ground ' is insincere. For youe honor is being tested right now with a call to action , with a call to do your part .. and not make excuses .. ' it will take months of planning .. we will need UI , dadadada ..
If you are just here to talk .. than you may as well join all the rest of the talkers ..and enjoy this site as it is. Because there is plenty of talk here .. plenty of attacks .. plenty of insults .. infighting going on.. Maybe this is the reason the people on the ground don't bother coming to this site .. come to think of it .. they were always welcome .. and this site could easily have been a meeting place for the infinity groups .. So just what are you talking about .. 'Bridge to the Ground ' is that some sort of diversion tactic .. a sales slogan .. 'Bridge toGround' pffft.
The people down on the ground .. in the trenches .. all have the same thing on their minds .. they need some one up above .. to take this thing to Congress .. to get results.
They need you to build a 'Bridge to Congress' where true pressure can be applied .
Are you up for it .. YES or NO.
They need us to do our part . Our part in connecting directly to Congress , taking action where it counts the most
Do tell
bensdad has 1.6 million signatures.. and Congress responds to his emails.
Signatures GirlFriend, thats what we need .. 50 million signatures ..
Nah. Not buying it. How about something a little more honest?
Such as ?
I am going out for breakfast.. care to join me !
Sure. Where do you want to meet?
The usual.
So, you want to meet at a gas station where I run out and grab a cup of coffee?
I don't eat breakfast............I slam coffee.
But, any time you are ready....................
You have better things to do than stressing about your debts You have better things to do than worry about money Don’t wait for debt relief to come to you Take a minute to get debt help Take a minute to get debt advice Take a minute to get debt relief
What they don’t want you to know about debt relief
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