Forum Post: BREAKING: Immortal Technique and KRS1
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 11, 2011, 12:34 p.m. EST by marsdefIAnCe
(365)
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...are both launching a nationwide tour to support Ron Paul.
Shhh ... don't tell the CIA-backed moveon.org
where can I find the article on Immortal Tech? I saw about KRS.. I have to confirm this
Alex Jones announced it today on his show.
about Immortal Tech? I think its only a rumor at this point.. rok the r3volution website dont have him listed
what really?? tahts the shit!
OH HELLS YEAH! Are they going to do it in German?
Is this the Rock The Revolution Tour?
yeah, its part of what need to be dismantled, but its not the main source of the problem. ron paul thinks doing away with the fed will allow the free market to operate how it should, but a "free" market is a capitalist myth. we need a non-capitalist economy- thats the main source of the problem.
bullshit
No one thinks the free market means you should be able to kill, steal, put benzene or fluoride in the water, etc.
You're falling into a trap. No one believes free market means do anything you want. Stop parroting that nonsense.
im not that naive... i know it doesnt necessarily mean any of that. what im refering to is that myth that there can exist a capitalist economy where everyone is "informed" on what the "best" "rational" "choice" is. capitalism requires something called profit, and so people's personal interest gets wrapped up in decisions that have very large impacts on people who use the products that are being produced. its becomes more profitable for people to actually be uninformed and uneducated. capitalism may have a phase where people receive good education and wages, but its in its logic to eventually maximize profit, raising self-interest above social good. you cannot improve the bottom line while improving the world.
My life and the bottom of line of all Apple shareholders has simultaneously been enhanced by the iPhone. Do I need to go on?
I love my little local grocers with unique flavors of jam and derive great pleasure from their profit making ventures.
Electricity is fabulous and it bothers me not that Edison was enriched by its invention.
Do I need to go on...?
thanks for the examples to work with... perhaps our pleasant, highly technologized western lives have been enhanced by the existence of the iphone. what you're leaving out of the picture are the hands that made the iphone. one of the apple factories in china had something like an average of 5 suicides a month because of working conditions and hours. the logic of capitalism makes it profitable to reduce the cost of labor as much as possible because that is where the capitalist loses the most money- on labor. so while your life is made easier by your iphone, there are thousands working is sweat-shop conditions to make that possible. familys being torn apart, psyches being abused by a ruthless factory system. thats not to say though that iphones cant exist outside capitalism. they can obviously be produced, the problem is under what conditions they're produced.
the example of your nice little grocer is utopian. of course we all like homey little food stores where we can try small time brands (again, not necessarily reliant on capitalism to exist) but those companies will grow and some will not grow. at some point one grows bigger than the other, one dies or is bought out, choices are reduced, production of the nice jams is industrialized to a mass scale, the homeyness you romanticize is lost. all in the necessary chase for profit. in this chase, more people suffer than not because not everyone can "win"- and thats not even going into the workers who suffer job loss because their companies jam wasn't as liked or as widely sold as the other's. capitalism asks you to look at the profitability of an action over its effect on the people who make the product.
the electricity example. again, not necessarily capitalist. you make it seem like all of these are only possible because of capitalism, which is false. capitalism just happened to be the economy we were under when those things were created. electricity was not reliant on capitalism for its creation, nor its distribution. you're committing a logical fallacy. its called affirming the consequent.
its easy to say "this" or "that" improved my life, but thats an implicitly one-sided (and incomplete) way of looking at a thing. there are a lot of "good" and "bad" consequences for any single action. "capitalism always hides a social relation"
I agree with LOVEPEACE's response.
And to be fair, you have never lived in a capitalist society. The central banks of the world are privately owned. We live in a form of oligarchical socialism, where the ultra-rich get welfare from the rest of us in the form of taxes paid to their central banks.
Brother, don't get caught up on the label "free-market". People get scared because they believe you are suggesting socialism or communism. What people want is FREEDOM. In a true free market companies like Apple will not be rewarded for enslaving people because they won't be able to be propped up and backed by violent domination. The real free-market does not reward people for violent domination of others. So we need to demand peace and nothing more. the Natural economy will follow because Peace is Prosperity.
What part of "the voluntary exchange of goods and services between two individuals for their mutual benefit" is the main source of the problem?
read my long post below
Why cant people distrutie production amngst themselves? Who's to say whats fair? Thats what we have now. govt does that for big corps. And if you think that someone in charge wont be corrupted, youre wrong, everyone has a price. So you start by not giving up that power in the first place, and becoming responsible for yourself in an equal playing field of the free market
No no no no. It isn't about x-ing out the old system and booting up an new one. It is about modifying what we have and making it work better. That is the smart move.
Also non-capitalist a stupid term. Do you mean no economy? Like a Bahamian grocery store - one chicken and five cans of Delmonty corn. Perhaps you mean like in Utopia as described by Thomas Moore. Interesting fact: the word Utopia is Greek and the literal translation is No Where Place.
On the other hand maybe you mean some sort of Marxist world where all the people are equal and no one is happy. Yeah that worked out well.
How about just repairing the system we have? Shit, we already been sleeping with it for so long. Is that far gone we cannot fix it. I do not think so. We just gotta through it into the dishwasher on rinse cycle to knock off some the gunk that has been accumulating the past 40 years or so.
we wont have to "x" this system out. its "x"ing itself out. the challenge is to come up with an economic system that distributes production so that peoples needs are met in an equitable way. you can't have an organized society without an economy- economy is the system of distributing production. and get over your hangups on words like marxism. it shows you have a territory of ideas you're not willing to venture into.
I am going to stick my head out and predict that you are 19-22 years old, probably in school and studying one of the liberal arts. I am I close? Don't lie. I can tell if you are lying.
Fuck I bet your name is Brad or something like that.
KRS-ONE is my favorite musical artist of all-time. This is great news. KRS gets it.
thats f**ked. i thought they were radicals. ron paul is a capitalist puritain.
Yes which means he is doing what is needed for the people.
Understand respect for other people and you understand Ron Paul.
They are. Challenging the privately owned Federal Reserve is about as radical as it gets.
I love how one person can come along and proclaim Dr Paul as "insane". The next person comes along as say's he's not a "radical".
The problem is that most people are incapable of putting together one logical thought after another.
This is super disappointing.
Boohoohoo... go bend over for Lord Rothschild then?
Wow, that was a highly informed response. Thanks for such an enlightening experience.