Forum Post: Are you guys anti capitalist?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 15, 2011, 7:49 p.m. EST by tydus
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Just a question. I couldn't imagine living in a country that wasn't capitalist :P
Seems it's only capitalism for us (99%). Wall St & the Banks get to socialize their losses and awful business decisions...over & over & over.
I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the Bank. ... You are a den of vipers and thieves. —Andrew Jackson in 1834 on closing the Second Bank of the United States.
Good one. Very true!
Exactly:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_for_the_rich_and_capitalism_for_the_poor
Here's a link to get that flyer: http://tinyurl.com/OWSflyer to help promote the video and the channel explaining this: The Truth about the Wall Street Bailout: How "Free Market Capitalism" Really Works. Nader and Chomsky Explain the Game, a Nanny State to Take Care of the Rich" Anyone who wants to help can download it, cut it in thirds, and distribute it.
I'm pro-properly regulated capitalism personally.
exactly. "The Truth about the Wall Street Bailout: How "Free Market Capitalism" Really Works. Nader and Chomsky Explain the Game, a Nanny State to Take Care of the Rich" http://www.youtube.com/watch?playnext=1&index=0&feature=PlayList&v=iVDPxVy7h38&list=PL74D77C3F57F6314F Anyone that want to help promote this link: http://Tinyurl.com/BailoutTruth can download the flyer, cut it in thirds, and distribute it: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0BwZ6iKVNLM89ZTFlODI0ZTAtODM3NS00NmRkLThhM2UtOWIwMGY1ZjliZmMz&hl=en
I'm not anticapitalist. I've been saying the whole time: occupy capitalism, take it back for the people, take it off wall st, bring it back to main st
I like that :]
I'm against sustaining the US economy by founding the defense industry and weapons factories
I think it is more anti greed, corruption and collusion with the government than anything else.
When corporations are being catered to at the expense of the citizens, it is viewed as unpatriotic and in some ways treason.
Capitalism is just a tool.
Our problem is how the tool is now being used against America's best interest for the gains of multinational corporations
Capitalism has come to mean different things to different people. How would you define capitalism? Do you consider Sweden and Denmark to be capitalist?
It was capitalism in the 1950's when top individual tax rates were 90% and the relationship of CEO salaries was 7 times their average worker. Not sure what you call it when top rates are now 34% and CEO compensation is 500 t0 700 times their average worker. I believe we have migrated from Capitalism to pure GREED.
Not anti capitalist. Just against corporatism. You know, when big companies buy YOUR politicians and have laws and regulations passed in their favor? Doesn't matter what political party you side with. YOU cant afford a lobbyist therefore you as a individual have no voice to speak to a politician.
No, Im capitalist. I love free market, competetion. The most eficient .
But for that i need to have a state , that gives some tools, like free education, the best education, so that I can compite worldwide. Also I will need that we Im in hospital, out of competition the state should provide me free healt care. capitalism is good(is even natural, the best get alive)), if it has some mechanism to be human.
Who is going to pay for the FREE education and HEAlTHCARE. If you are capitalist do you plan on paying your fair share into the collective pot so you can have FREE education and HEALTHCARE.
is very easy TAX .
Sample... here in Argentina the best enginer are from state College. The best jobs are given to people that graduates from free college. Of the high degree I get, I find a good job, then I will pay more TAX, because I can Spend more. If not I will undereducated, and will have a very bad job , and will not pay many TAX on all my life. Free education is a real good investement that politics should do.
We have techincal , agricultural, free schools, all that tech people knows then very good to take the most of agricultural, constrution, had good joobs also.
I'm anti-unregulated-capitalism, personally. I think we had it pretty good between 1945-1980, all things considered. Capitalism thrived. It wasn't the profoundly "free market" purists are asking for here, but that's what they've been asking for and getting more and more of since Reagan, and it's why we're in this mess (despite all the crazy explanations you'll hear to the contrary).
Reinstate Glass-Steagal would be a great place to start; also a return to truly progressive taxation policies, because wealth inequality is at an all-time high, and higher than any other advanced country.
Nope. Just tired of having our politicians bought.
Tydus,
No we are not anti-capitalist. Its kind of a capitalist savior movement. We're trying to save capitalism from the capitalists.
uh that doesn't make any sense please explain
Whats not to get liveWell.
If its too complicated forget the first two sentences and just focus on the last one.
save capitalism from the capitalist? thats an oxymoron
I am 100% for capitailism I have owned a number of corporations and never stress never cheated anyone, paid off a politian, never stold a penny, always did my bookkeeping acording to the law, never sought out a favor for my political support, never discriminated against anyone, never cheated medicare, hoarded life saving drugs, wrote phony mortgage paperwork, took public oil or lumber and never paid for it, never was to big to fail ... get the picture .
I am against everyone who does these things I never considered for a second as normal operatioin procedure,
makes sense
I'm Chinese - and in China, it's pure capitalism in there. No medicare, no social security, no health care - not even unions. No real regulation to ensure quality goods, either.
I think that a mixed economy is the best option.
I have heard a lot of accusations but no facts. Corruption , Bribery etc. I mean what planet do we live on, of course that is going on, it has always . The world can be a tough place greed does not know labels or boundaries. Politicians and businessmen both can be corrupt but lets not continue to be prejudice and use a broadstroke.. I have made a good life for myself in thia country, I have no college education. I am of the belief that is more corrupt than wallstreet and stealing more of Americans money than other institutions. How many of you have been educated for LARGE sums of money, taken completely useless courses just to graduate and find out your degree isn't worth the paper it is printed.
I have heard a lot of accusations but no facts. Corruption , Bribery etc. I mean what planet do we live on, of course that is going on, it has always . The world can be a tough place greed does not know labels or boundaries. Politicians and businessmen both can be corrupt but lets not continue to be prejudice and use a broadstroke.. I have made a good life for myself in thia country, I have no college education. I am of the belief that is more corrupt than wallstreet and stealing more of Americans money than other institutions. How many of you have been educated for LARGE sums of money, taken completely useless courses just to graduate and find out your degree isn't worth the paper it is printed.
Yea..many comments below are specific -- failed regulation, socialized losses while a few banks/people win, etc. This is EXACTLY what is needed.
Avoid the more general capitalism v. socialism as this is a red herring.
The OWS is anti-crony capitalism. Crony capitalism is a term describing a capitalist economy in which success in business depends on close relationships between business people and government officials. It may be exhibited by favoritism in the distribution of legal permits, government grants, special tax breaks, bailouts, and so forth.
Don't be jealous of others who are successful. You are promised Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness in this country. Everything else has to be earned. Stop expecting a high standard of living without taking the risks that business owners and shareholders take.
Let's make sure they read that correctly! Pursuit of happiness. Not provided!
Personally, I am a Socialist.
Thank you for being honest. We can agree to disagree.
it seems many people are, but the proper position would be anti crony capitalism.
We are a Focused Direct Democracy, and therefore Hyper-Capitalists, the next step. Many more people will come to your side when you are proactive (for “new” Business & Government solutions), instead of reactive (against “old” Business & Government solutions), which is why what we most immediately need is a comprehensive “new” strategy that implements all our various socioeconomic demands at the same time, regardless of party, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves; that is, using a Focused Direct Democracy organized according to our current Occupations & Generations. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategically Weighted Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
because we need 100,000 “support clicks” at AmericansElect.org to support a Presidential Candidate -- such as any given political opportunist you'd like to draft -- in support of the above bank-focused platform.
Most importantly, remember, as cited in the first link, that as Bank Owner-Voters in your 1 of 48 "new" Business Investment Groups (or "new" Congressional Committees) you become the "new" Congress replacing the "old" Congress according to your current Occupation & Generation, called a Focused Direct Democracy.
Therefore, any Candidate (or Leader) therein, regardless of party, is a straw man, a puppet; it's the STRATEGY – the sequence of steps – that the people organize themselves under, in Military Internet Formation of their Individual Purchasing & Group Investment Power, that's important. In this, sequence is key.
Why? Because there are Natural Social Laws – in mathematical sequence – that are just like Natural Physical Laws, such as the Law of Gravity. You must follow those Natural Social Laws or the result will be Injustice, War, etc.
The FIRST step in Natural Social Law is to CONTROL the Banks as Bank Owner-Voters. If you do not, you will inevitably be UNJUSTLY EXPLOITED by the Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government who have a Legitimate Profit Motive, just like you, to do so.
Consequently, you have no choice but to become Candidates (or Leaders) yourselves as Bank Owner-Voters according to your current Occupation & Generation.
So please JOIN the 2nd link so we can make our support clicks at AmericansElect.org when called for, at exactly the right time, by an e-mail from that group, in support of the above the bank-focused platform. If so, then you will see and feel how your goals can be accomplished within the above strategy as a “new” Candidate (or Leader) of your current Occupation & Generation.
It seems like somewhere between a third and a half of people actually at Zucotti park are anti-capitalist. It's a good start, and will grow as people challenge the system and come up against what the capitalist system really means.
The important points: These reforms cannot be won AND KEPT under capitalism. The failures of the system are direct outgrowths of a capitalist economy, not anomalies or some bad apples. A socialist economy is more efficient, just, and fair.
One thing you guys need to realize. This is very important. Is that the bankers are not to blame for the credit crisis. I know it is hard to understand. This will explain it: http://philo-invest.blogspot.com/2011/10/credit-crisis-bankers-are-not-main-ones.html. It is the politicians who are primarily to blame.
yes nice, but ho pay the politics ?? the trouble is that politics, are more near to corporation than to people.
If "anti capitalist" means stopping an unregulated group of corporate whores from sending all the good paying jobs to China and thereby destroy the American Dream and the Middle Class, then YES I'm anti capitalist.
Sending jobs outside is part of capitalism. We must figure out that we cant say we are "capilism" and also try to shut down customs. You need indeed better tools to be more eficient. or be sure that abroad there are not working like slaves.
Anti logic too?
More like anti-bribery and anti theft. The big corporations are guilty of both
www.getmoneyout.com/
Again, accusation without fact. What exactly have "they" stolen? Who has been bribed? You and thousands of others here keep making the same accusation. I have yet to see any make a case that would hold up in a court of Law, no matter which Nation you wished to prosecute these all powerful, unnamed "They"
Deception is theft. ABC new's Stephanopoulos told viewers that "of the top Democratic candidates, only Obama was against he Iraq war form the start" Meanwhile you can see a picture of Kucinich among the Democrats being displayed as he says it. That's just one example. Wall street firms misrepresented the risk of the derivatives they were selling.
"Not only did Wall Street sell these risky investments as low-risk bond-like instruments, major insurance companies sold insurance on mortgage-backed securities that purported to reduce risk further. Soon Wall Street offered derivative insurance on synthetic packages of virtual mortgage-backed securities that the buyer did not even own." "Feds Sue 17 Wall Street Firms Over Bad Mortgages: The suits claim Bank of America (BAC), Citigroup (C), Barclays (BCS), Goldman Sachs (GS), HSBC (HBC) and Nomura (NMR), among many others, misrepresented the quality of the mortgage securities they created and sold during the housing bubble."
Read more: http://moneywatch.bnet.com/investing/blog/investment-insights/us-set-to-sue-wall-street-over-mortgages/2544/#ixzz1awpjlTJ8 Read more: Mortgage Backed Securities Basics | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_7199129_mortgage-backed-securities-basics.html#ixzz1awp95vON
Your beef then is against these Banks. Not Wall Street. You are castigating the whole for the actions of the few. And I'm sure not one soul here purchased those Securities. You are protesting in the defense of wall street buyers who got screwed by wall street sellers? But, a Federal Law suit is not proof of any guilt. Once these complaints have been heard and adjudicated with a guilty verdict, I will join you in the claim of Crook, until then, innocent. And the plaintive cry emanating from the great OWS is nothing more than "Wolf"
DId you miss the fact that Greenspan admitted his world view was wrong? That you can't trust these guys not to put the economy at risk? What is our beef?!? Krugman explains: " First things first: The protesters’ indictment of Wall Street as a destructive force, economically and politically, is completely right. ... In the first act, bankers took advantage of deregulation to run wild (and pay themselves princely sums), inflating huge bubbles through reckless lending. In the second act, the bubbles burst — but bankers were bailed out by taxpayers, with remarkably few strings attached, even as ordinary workers continued to suffer the consequences of the bankers’ sins. And, in the third act, bankers showed their gratitude by turning on the people who had saved them, throwing their support — and the wealth they still possessed thanks to the bailouts — behind politicians who promised to keep their taxes low and dismantle the mild regulations erected in the aftermath of the crisis.
Given this history, how can you not applaud the protesters for finally taking a stand?" http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/07/opinion/krugman-confronting-the-malefactors.html?_r=2&src=ISMR_HP_LO_MST_FB