Forum Post: Answer ? Precisely how the 1% stopped Americans from achieving their dreams.
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 24, 2011, 2:50 p.m. EST by bill1102inf2
(357)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Picture the economy in America as one LONG road. While driving down it you USED to see housing (owned houses by people), industry (stuff being made/produced), farms owned by families, and commercial stores like Hardware, Restaurants, Clothing, Auto, etc (owned by families).
This WAS the American dream. You could own a shoe store, a hardware store, a lumber yard, a clothes store, pharmacy, gas station, conveniant store, bakery, and this would afford you a house and a US built car etc.
But the further you drove things changed, instead of houses owned by families, 1000 unit 'apartments' owned by massive corporations appeared, family owned stores were replaced by HomeDepot,Walmart,McDonalds,TGI Fridays,Best Buy, Kmart, etc, industrial production areas nonexistent (having shipped them all to China), farms owned by uber enourmous conglomerates, etc. Banks own all the houses and prefer them empty, US cars are built in Mexico, South America and Canada.
Now, its impossible to compete with these mega corporations, so you can kiss your American dream goodbye. People who would have been bakery owners, shop owners, restaurant owners, shoe store owners, etc. INSTEAD have to work for these mega-corps under direction of their 1% overlords for slave wages and (lack of) benefits.
We exported the American Dream, and Imported nothing but liability.
FULL MOVIE: http://documentarystorm.com/inside-job/ Inside Job, great movie to watch to learn that the rich never earned a penny of their money.
I think one distinction OWS needs to make is between the self made that happen to be close to and in the 1%, and the problem. Thee are many who make a good living who have helped society and have been compensated fairly, especially in the medical profession.
There are plenty of successful people who have acted ethically and have not destroyed society. The focus has to be Bankers, Lawyers, and more importantly politicians. Those that create nothing.
The problem is the .000001%
Distinction made. But clarifying helps. Watch Inside Job. That doc does a great job at pointing them out.
Unfortunately getting the large population of OWS sheeple to grasp that is unlikely. Since grade school many of them have been taught that any one with money is evil and they only made it from stealing from others
Ok, you have no idea what you are talking about. It is truly amazing how clueless OWS opposition is. Really, it's not even funny.
I feel like OWS is a lot more receptive to actual policy changes and reforms designed to deal with those people who are actually the problem (rather than just screwing people with big paychecks) than we get credit for. The problem with indiscriminate lynching is that it's very easy to get so lost in vengeance that nothing gets done to fix things. That does not mean that I don't want to see the people at the top of the heap who created this climate and who were responsible for outright fraud dealt with swiftly, severely, and publicly. For reasons of justice, catharsis, and deterrence I feel that a punishment phase for actual offenders is necessary. However, when we cross the line from justice to witch hunts then we're simply distracting ourselves from reconstruction at the expense of innocent people.
A lot of people are really angry, and the government as of now has been sleeping on the job as far as regulation of the financial industry is concerned, and the combination of those two things creates a mentality of "Fuck 'em all! Let 'em all roast; they earned it!" even when the circumstances surrounding what happened aren't that simple. There is a list of people who should be hauled up in front of a grand jury for the shady dealings and outright fraud that led in part to the collapse, and a significant portion of that list probably belongs in prison, but that list is smaller and more nuanced than many have the patience to consider after what happened. When you factor in the continued campaign of hate and misinformation from the right, you create a lot of angry people whom nobody has taken the time to educate and focus.
Corzine should be called to account, as should those people beneath him who knew about this and either endorsed it or did nothing despite their knowledge. The same goes for the CDO debacle, the robosigning debacle, and similar incidents in the financial industry. Treat it like the Nuremberg war crimes trials; put those who can reasonably be suspected of complicity or criminality on trial and then leave the rest be.
The important thing to remember is that capital is essentially power when you get down to it. Like power, it is neither good nor evil; it merely seeks to reproduce as much as possible. In the hands of responsible people who know what they're doing this tendency can be used to produce truly great things that would have been impossible to create otherwise. However, when the people handling the capital are out for personal gain, or for that matter believe that they should be following the money rather than directing it, you get what we got in 2008.
I think we grasp that principle quite well.
Are you implying that you are one of the Sheeple??
what I was attempting to support was the concept that even among the 1% there are divisions of ideology and belief, that not all of them are intent on the destruction of every single government function that serves the people - or is intended to serve the people if the fukers quit breakin shit.
OK just getting clarification
So, who's fault is it that things have changed? It's the fault of the people of the country.
There is "no loyalty" towards this country today. It is proven by the fact that the younger generation are not concerned if the products they buy are made in china.
It is proven by the fact that they think that everything should be given to them instead of having to work for it.
It is proven by the fact that there is little or no regard for what they own - they live in a "disposable society" where value means nothing.
It is proven by the present state of our economy.
true, but people do not like to blame things on themselves.
"We exported the American Dream, and Imported nothing but liability."
...nice
And I mean by running the business by actually doing the work on the floor. Not the guy behind the desk at corporate coming up with catch phrases, delegating responsibility, playing the corporate cut throat game and talking to share holders. That guy gets paid way too much for what he does and is the ultimate drain on the society.
Don't buy from these corporations and go local then if you think that way. If everyone thinks that way then no corporations exist.
This is why we are here this is why you are needed.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/inside-job-documentary/
Share, circulate, educate, inspire.
http://documentarystorm.com/inside-job/
Full movie, inside job.
This is a very very important point. I hope more hear it. This is what has happened and is happening. We best think about where we're going before it's too late. Maybe it is!
I was indeed fortunate. I grew up in the late thirties and forties. It was a time when the American Dream was still realizable.One could still build ones own home; wire it, plumb it, and do all the things by yourself. All you had to do was get a book that would tell you how to do it.
There weren't building inspectors, building permits, or other costs other than the material to do it. license fees were not part of the equation and property taxes were still manageable.
It's a whole different ball game out there now. Licensed contractors, licensed electricians and licensed plumbers are now required by law.
The same is true of the family owned stores and gas stations. The large businesses and corporations have convinced the government that those experts are necessary for the good of the people. And so taxes and laws are passed making it impossible for the small businessman to even start a business. The high cost of starting up any business by the average person is stopping a lot of creativity on the part of the population.
It isn't just the corporations. It is our representatives who just don't get it.
All is not completely lost. Here's a few ideas on how to become a millionaire:
Remember Mom when your hair went awry? Remember how she would lick her fingers and straighten your hair or rub off a smudge on your face?
Well, find a substance that will do that; bottle it and sell it. Calling it "Mom Spit".
Other than the military cut, most mens and womens shirts and blouses have few, if any, pockets. Everyone can use an extra pocket. Find a way to attatch removable pocket anywhere on the garment. Call the just "Pockets".
What with the high cost of bringing your luggage with you on a plane, send it to your destination by UPS about a week before you leave. When you return, send it home the same way. How are you going to make money by doing that? Individualized plastic containers with a strap to hold the top on.
There are no guarantees this will work, but what have you got to lose?
I don't think there are many on this forum who knows what it was like back in the 40's, 50's and 60's growing up and raising a family.
this IS the answer
I guess the trolls dont like this post
I think the trolls are all home with family. Taking the day off from work.
I sure was home with family myself, and if I had any sense I would still be there. For some reason, I am drawn to the ignorant = maybe that is why I have spent most of my life as a teacher.
You really HAVE to be committed to work with those that SHOULD have been committed.
Going over to my daughters' home now to sit around with my grandkids. We talk a lot about economics and about the American Dream - I just don't tell they what that dream should be about - and I sure don't tell them that they cannot have it if they are working towards it.
The dream doesn't MOVE, we have to move to it. They are in their teens and are getting ready to move to it themselves. and I will be right there behind them regardless of the road they choose to take. When they start thinking that the Dream should move towards them instead, I will still be behind them with my thick soled shoes on - you can picture the results NO??
They will not finish college and YELL for the DREAM to come to them. If they can't find the way to that DREAM after four or more years of education either the education has failed them or they got very lazy and dumbed down along the way.
The 1 % stopped us from having our dream- BECAUSE - just BECAUSE. But we will tax the shit out of them and get back the fucken money they stole from us. have a nice day- friend
because they believed they could and convinced the politicians that they should, both in the name of $$$ --- GREED and TOGETHER they were able to accomplish this. Without the desire and the corruption of the politicians this would not, could not have occured. think NAFTA, GM bailouts, Bank bailouts, etc.
Hey - elephant - good to see you again.
Nice job with the copy and paste, by the way. Making minimum wage on that skill??
copy and paste The 1 % stopped us from having our dream- BECAUSE - just BECAUSE. But we will tax the shit out of them and get back the fucken money they stole from us. have a nice day- friend
But do note, it's not all of the 1% who are guilty-- just some of them-- and they had ample assistance from lots of the 99% e.g. the NYPD.
If you really want to know what's going on, read Confessions of an Economic Hitman, as well as Shock Doctrine.
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First of all where do you get your facts from "Justhefacts"? The American Dream is in fact to have and run you own business for many Americans. If you think people are lazy ask the people who are running Home Depot and see if they would like to run a lumber yard of their own. They never will because they can't compete with purchasing power of Home Depot or Lowes or qualify for a bank loan to open a competing lumber yard. The people running these businesses can't save any money because they simply aren't paid a living wage. Their is a clear entry barrier, as their are in most industries, for the modern American and it usually has to do with starting capital. The American Dream is about owning a home, owning a car, raising a family, living a life that you do something you love, building a future for your kids and simply having the ability to follow your dreams. The future we have now is bleak to say the least. I am afraid to say the ivory towers that the 1% are living in will not hold off the swarms of demonstrators that want fairness in the world regardless of whether our local news stations talk about it or not. The critical mass will be met and that day looks like it is coming very soon, if it has not already been met.
I didn't use facts. I said "I think..." indicating an opinion and applied it to "most of the people I know". In no sense does that negate the idea that "many" Americans" might in fact "dream" about "having and running their own businesses".
Saying that "Americans today don't like physical labor and long hours" does NOT equate with them being "lazy" in my book, but it must in yours. Just curious...as a percentage of the US....how many people that actually DO physical labor and work long hours actually LIKE both the work involved and doing that work for long hours?
FACTS-According to the Census Bureau, home ownership in the US reached a peak in 2004 at 69.2% and has fallen to 65.9% as of the second quarter of 2011. (It's lowest level since 1998)
So 66% of Americans have reached that "dream", most likely own a car and are raising a family and doing what they can to build their children's futures and follow their dreams. No one EVER promised that ALL dreams would be fulfilled or even CAN be. And some people's dreams aren't tied directly to making MONEY doing what they love to do. Some people use the money they earn to fulfill their dreams.
http://www.businessnewsdaily.com/1758-job-seeker-outlook.html This survey was reported on Dec 7,2011 and says:
"82 percent of current job-seekers would accept a job with lower pay in a field they love over a job in a different field that pays more. Additionally, 63 percent of job-seekers defined success as doing something they love, while an additional 36 percent of respondents defined success as advancing their talents and abilities."
This demonstrates that most people place a higher value on being able to do what they WANT/LOVE than they do on how much money they earn. People value their personal satisfaction over their personal income. The question remains- have the "rich" actually gotten rich doing what they love? (In which case, you should be celebrating their achieving "the dream") Or have they gotten rich gotten because they value making money over doing what they love? (In which case isn't it better to spend your life being poorer-but doing what you love, than it is to spend your life getting rich doing something you don't?)
That was quite lovely.
here is how they did it, you got lazy, they didn't. you were lazy and could not achieve your dream. also, dreams are probably improbably anyway
I think that Americans just changed their dreams. Most people I know do not WANT the headache of owning/running a store or lumber yard etc. To them it would be MUCH more of a "nightmare" than a "dream". They want a 9-5 job where work stays at work and all it does is provide the income with which they pursue their REAL dreams-boating on the lake on weekends, traveling, buying specific clothes for themselves and their kids, having the newest I-phone or computer. Wearing certain jewelry and driving a certain car.
Today's Americans don't like physical labor and long hours. They don't get a kick out of sweating and they don't relish looking back at the end of a long day and thinking "Wow....I really accomplished a lot today". You could GIVE these people a hardware store or a lumber yard etc and they wouldn't have the first CLUE how to run it or make it successful. Nor would they have any interest in learning how to either.
Most Americans dream about living an "easy" life. Some magical place where you sit behind a desk and look important all day and then go golfing and tons of money just flows into your pockets. (Hell-many OWS will tell you that THAT is ALL CEOs do all day anyway) It makes them mad as hell to think that SOMEONE ELSE is getting away with what THEY, themselves, want to get away with-even if it's a complete myth!
Americans started trading "wealth"-real, solid, asset based wealth-for "stuff" a long time ago. 80-90% of them HAPPILY hand their "wealth" over to people in exchange for AirJordans, and Ipods, and jeans because they think it makes them LOOK "wealthy". And they either don't care that underneath the costume is a poor, in debt, pay-check to paycheck person who lives on the edge, someone living a lie-or they can't face that fact and must continue to support the illusion at all costs.
Real wealth, is nothing more than OWNING more than you OWE on. It's saving up real money, quickly or slowly, and either keeping that money OR exchanging it for something that will GROW in value over time. Rich people know and understand this. Poor people don't.
If 80-90% of Americans would just learn and LIVE BY that simple concept, then 100% of us would be rich too.
Weird. I drove into "town" today and I passed houses owned by people. I saw a couple of 50 unit townhouse buildings, but each one is owned by the individual who lives in it. I saw farms owned by families. I saw small town stores-a shoe repair shop, a karate studio, a small bakery, a pawn shop, a boutique, several independent restaurants, the community center, some banks, a local grocery store, the post office, a plumbing supply store, a small furniture store, a small spa. I also passed a "more" commercial area with a WalMart, a Home Depot, a Lowe's, gas stations and other chain stores, but there were also strip mall units with some kind of cupcake store, a store that sells models, and a small pet store in them.
Odd....because you're saying that none of the stores/businesses I passed should exist today because everyone has to work for the 1% overlords. And I honestly can only think of a handful of people in my neighborhood that actually work for or at a "massive chain company" for "slave wages". I've never worked for one of them (although I think it would be a kick to work at Hobby Lobby) and neither has my husband.
I guess where I live people are still achieving their dreams....
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Attention deficit disorder? Inability to focus on and/or respond to anything longer than two sentences with intelligence and maturity? Or just all out ignoramus who values his own opinion so much he bestows it upon the unworthy whenever he can?
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Why does "fancy talk" make you feel the need to respond?
You aren't well informed on the topic of hyperfocusing and ADHD/ADD either. http://helpguide.org/mental/adhd_add_adult_symptoms.htm
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Here's what you either keep missing, or leaving out because you're an idiot.
From YOUR own link-
Distractibility: ADD-This is the primary problem. They cannot sustain attention and concentration because:
a) low energy which causes loss of focus and follow through
b) environmental factors
c) their own racing or wandering thoughts
ADHD- Cannot maintain focus so have poor sustained effort; race from task to task; are easily bored; forget and lose things because they missed information due to being distracted; need external motivation
BOTH disorders have FOCUS issues!
Your website link does not support your statement that "ADD is the over focusing on a singular activity". What it does say is that ADD without hyperactivity AND with hyperfocus issues are a subtype of ADD. Not all ADD sufferers have hyperfocus issues and not all ADHD sufferers are free from them. (Which is why I said you aren't well informed or you wouldn't have phrased your statement the way you did)
We'll have to compare medical and family backgrounds some day to find out whether or not you understand this more than I do. Your assumptions make you fool enough for me.
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I'm confused.
YOU brought up the difference between ADHD and ADD. Then you provide a link AND a quote showing the difference between ADD and ADHD-from a website dedicated to the differences between ADHD and ADD. Which proved my point that ADD without hyperactivity AND with hyperfocus issues is a subtype of ADD-not a general condition of ALL ADD or ADHD sufferers, and you respond with ANOTHER website that proves me right...linked by the words "keep trying"?
Looks like I don't have to.
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OH. MY Crap. I think I just figured out the problem...
My ONLY disagreement, AND my entire point this whole time, has been that ADD has a SUBTYPE that has an "overfocus" characteristic-it is not a characteristic of ADD in general.
Now I assumed that if you really were an "expert" like you say you are, that you would KNOW that in MEDICAL terms the prefix "hyper" means over, more than normal, and the prefix "hypo" means under, not enough. Thus the word HYPERfocus-means overfocus, morethannormal focus, just like the word "hyperactive" means "over"active, "morethannormal" active. I couldn't for the life of me grasp why you kept fighting with me while providing evidence that supports what I'm saying. Then something in your last post hit me......
Someone who thinks that the word "hyper" is always short for "hyperactive" would not realize that when I use the proper medical term- hyperfocus- I am essentially saying "overfocus"..and they would assume that I'm classifying the characteristic of "overfocus" in the ADHD-the "hyperactive"-category instead of the ADD category.
If I'm right, you're not only dumber than you accused me of being, but you're so arrogant you can't help but reveal it.
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"Inability to focus on and/or respond to anything longer than two sentences with intelligence and maturity" can be a trait of someone WITH ADD OR ADHD. Only the subtype of the ADD category have the hyperfocus problem and I didn't mention hyperfocusing OR subtypes now did I?
Which means that YOU projected what you THOUGHT I meant into the conversation. You were wrong. And you entered a conversation I was not having with YOU with a blustering insult. That isn't spillover hon, that's just all out arrogance. I ate Jung for breakfast. You check him out,.
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From the beginning-
I made a post to someone else expressing my opinion. You jumped in (impulsively I might add) with a several glib insults and a judgement call.
My response to your out-of-the-blue attitude and comment was to suggest a multiple choice list of reasons why someone might do that:
"ADD? Inability to focus on and/or respond to anything longer than two sentences with intelligence and maturity? Or just all out ignoramus who values his own opinion so much he bestows it upon the unworthy whenever he can?"
Notice that since first sentence and the last sentence referred to DIFFERENT things, I figured one would logically conclude that the second sentence ALSO referred to something different than either 1 or 3. (my bad apparently) You see, it was an insulting multiple choice question with number 3 being my personal choice.
You ASSUMED that I was diagnosing you with ADD. I wasn't. And you ALSO assumed that sentence #2 was a continuation of/elaboration on sentence #1. It wasn't.
You replied: "Actually you just diagnosed ADHD. ADD is the over focusing on a singular activity."
Now, since I had not diagnosed you with anything, I ignored your first sentence as an irrational, sarcastic response. I responded to your statement about ADD being "the over focusing on a singular activity" as being incorrect not only because I know and deal with several people who are ADD who do NOT over focus, I'm also so well versed in the ADD/ADHD spectrums that I ALSO knew that the characteristic of over focusing only occurs in a certain SUBtype of ADD-a specific group of people-not ALL people who suffer from ADD. I also personally know someone who is ADHD in every single category BUT also hyperfocuses. (which means either she's an anomaly or they haven't conducted enough research to conclude that certain traits cross over. Either way-I AM "speaking from experience" when I say not ALL people with ADD or ADHD have the overfocus trait. Got it?)
Now, if you were either as well versed as I am, or had the same personal experience that I have, you would have AGREED with me right off the bat about my statements.
But you just sit here and continue to FOCUS and INSIST on whatever you like. I'm sure someone with a license has already diagnosed you. You might discuss upping your meds with them next visit. Just a suggestion.
WELL - I have a long ways to go to explain how I see things working but let me make a few points:
We really did not export the American Dream as far as you think. More than likely what you are talking about is giving the American Dream back to the government and then realizing that what they give back is nothing like you were expecting in the form of your dream.
Please realize that there are two sources of wealth in this country. a) there is government wealth (balanced by debt only) and there is b) sole proprietor, business and corporate wealth.
Any wealth extracted from the government will necessarily be limited, will create a corresponding debt for the government and will be at or slightly above the survival rate. All of this wealth will within a matter of weeks or months, flow to the wealthy. It will stay there except for any extracted to return to the government for recycling.
Any wealth extracted from the other sources (sole propriator, etc) will in effect come from the "wealthy" and will flow to the middle class or poor, where some of it will flow back to the source and some has the potential to be held as personal wealth.
If you work for minimum wage, you are in effect working for the government, not for anyone else, because they set that wage for you.
I cannot have a nice day when I realize that what the "elephant" is proposing would only increase the wealth of the most rich. You can try to tax the sh__ out of the 1% and may very well do so. However, that wealth will not go to you, it will go to the government which is already 16T$in debt. Perhaps it will be used to pay down that debt, to fund food stamps, welfare, unemployment etc. but within one month it will be right back in the hands of the very people you took it out of along will any profit added to it along the way. In other words you tax a corporation $1,000 dollars, give it to the government, they will give it to the poor who will purchase $1,000 worth of food, gas, etc which is actually worth say $750.00 and the money appears in the hands of WalMart as $1,000 at a cost of only $750.00 = profit on their part of another $250.00.
Please do not try to get YOUR f----money back unless you really know what you are going - you will only feed into the wealth of the rich. When you realize this point - you are not going to have a nice day-friend.
Your choice to be rich or poor. You make the choice.
I don't think anything has changed, it was NEVER easy to be rich.
The real fucking wake-up call is that now its not easy to simply go to college and get a job and kick-back 9-5 and play all your life.
I agree that running a BIZ is fucking hard work all your life, and that weekends is also work-time when your the BOSS or OWNER. That 97% don't have the wiring in their head for such tedium, most humans are MONKEYS that need to play all the time, the ability to focus your whole life on just money and work is a form of AUTISM.
It's just as easy now as its ever been to get rich, but WHY? I think its well know that its better to be rich than poor. If you like to travel, then money is required to travel and passports and visas can cost you a lot of money.
Most people are RENTER's, its the easy way out, too many people this last cycle 'bought' a house, but never took care of that house, just treated it as a rental from the bank, ...
The problem is well known and documented in the classic book "Richest Man in Babylon", that 97% of MEN/WOMEN are to fucking stupid to save, so they end up poor all their lives. That 3% KNOW what the game of life is all about, this is a constant for all nations worldwide.
It's your choice to be rich or poor. You make the choice.
Two problems. There is very little incentive difference between working and not working on the low end. Not a lot of motivation to get started if you don't have it to begin with. Just for fun, do the welfare or Federal Tax credits if you're doing the minimum. Or welfare vs minimum wage especially with any support.
Or on the high end, you have to work 60-80 hours a week, be specialized, and be competitive all the time. I've tried that and it's crazy. The 1% can have it.
Your a fucking idiot to think this way, ...
Get a good book there are 100's written from the 1950's like "think and grow rich", ... read the books,
Yes, you have to have a education, and a specialization, ...
We're talking about what it takes to be rich, but your a fucking loser and will always be a loser.
Read "richest man in babylon', .. many good books about not living in poverty.
This is preposterous, I have read, and understand all of those books, and make a good living myself. The problem is the literal 1000's of people I have had the opportunity to speak with who would BE RICH IF it WAS the 1950's. What got one rich in the 50's will not work today. There will never be such thing as inventing the new Walmart. For instance, Walmart is nothing less than a viral infection of the economy of the US, the only good thing that could happen is for all Walmarts to be burned to the ground and banned from operating in the USA.
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