Forum Post: All the problems stated not one plausible solution...
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 18, 2011, 9:21 p.m. EST by kdubbs1987
(29)
from Shoreham, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I understand people being upset. It makes sense that people would want to complain but no real action, and I'm not saying a revolt, has been taken. What I am saying is that all this website and movement has turned into is a bunch of school girls who aren't afraid to bad talk a friend right to there face instead of talking behind their backs. As far as I know no real solution has been presented to fix our problems. All of the tools are there. We have the right to view most of our nations financial situation; we all know the problems; we as a group haven't been political enough. I think electing some sort of leader therefore is completely out of the question. Democracy is a great thing but, is definitely not something we've been brought into. As a people we elect a few to represent that of many and that inherently is flawed. Personal benefit comes into play and opinions of right and wrong are only one sided at that point. We need to present problems and, instead of gossiping about them, come up with REAL solutions. So I'd like this forum itself to be for people who'd like to present a problem and for others to reply with a solution. Or one person to do both and discussion to follow. It will be much better then hearing complaints and theories.
Kdubbs - I thought you would be interested in the electronic petition that has been created on We the People, a new feature on WhiteHouse.gov Warren Buffet himself outlined this petition to stop the corruption in Congress. If this petition gets 5,000 signatures by October 22, 2011, the White House will review it and respond! If a petition gets enough support, the Obama Administration will issue an official response. You can view and sign the petition here: http://wh.gov/gWX
Sorry about the double post, my browser locked up for a second.
For some reason Americans, and perhaps the world in general, have always had a bipolar stance on capitalism and socialism. I blame it on the cold war, where everyone was told that these where the only two viable options, and they needed to decide on one and fight to prevent the other from destroying the world. I think that old school mentality has long surpassed its useful livelihood. Socialism has failed, capitalism is failing, Much like how many feel we need a new third option in the political arena, I feel we need a new and viable third option in an economic model. Many people voice opposition to what they don’t like, This is great, I have grown up watching generations before me voice concerns and fight for what they thought was right (no matter how wrong it may or may not have been), and I have seen the new wave of political and social correctness that silenced a generation, while our rights were stripped away. To hear people finally voice out against the systems that have failed our generation is a breath of fresh air. But that is not nearly enough. Deconstructionist attitude does not build a better world it simply creates a vacuum where possibly worse conditions could arise. Deconstruction is only useful as a tool for reconstruction, and people need to consider what they want to construct. I personally feel that people need to abandon prior prejudices. And re-examine the practical application of past economic models. Capitalism and communism both have benefits as well as flaws; a merger of the two which takes the benefits of each to counteract the drawbacks of the other seems a much more sustainable and socially functional alternative than either of the original models. Socialism provides a basic level of existence for all yet limits productivity by limiting rewards, It has failed and is not an option for a future model. Further in most of its practical applications it has strongly lacked the necessary checks and balances needed to ensure the lack of corruption. Capitalism for all its greed and cut throat nature provided incentives which encouraged productivity so long as the system functioned with controls, yet provided little security. Beyond its lack of security for the lower classes it creates far too much incentive for corruption. It is currently failing and should not be used as a future model. I feel that a merger of the best points of both is the only truly sustainable model. Create a large government foundation of public service, building infrastructure, as well as production of food and resources. Allow the government to sell government produced commodities at limited profits. also allow private market to function simultaneously, when the private market falters, up the government production to provide jobs, when the private market recovers back off of government spending and rely on tax collection from the private market. This would create a system which allows for both the incentive created by a private market and the job security created by a socialized government work force. Furthermore regardless, if the private sector is failing the government will make money off of the commodities it produces from the influx of workforce flooded into the government sector, if the private sector flourishes the government profits from increased taxes. People would benefit from having the opportunity to secure high paying jobs in the private sector as well as the security of knowing they will always have a livable wage job if all else fails. The government would once again have leverage to control our country, by regulating markets through competitive wages, as well as competitive pricing. Obviously this would require additional checks and balances to be applied, to assure the government does not abuse this situation and result in a socialist state, I do believe however this could be accomplished in establishing a system of representatives for the free market sector which would have an equal vote with regard to economic concerns. I am not an expert on the subject of economics, I have a fair working knowledge, and I’m sure there are intricacies I am unaware of, yet, I believe the core of what I am saying has merit, If for nothing else other than instigating discussion and idea exchange.
Glass steagall look it up.
Here's what I know: our systemic problems cannot be solved so long as our system itself is corrupted by corporate money. Period.
Try to solve global warming while most politicians accept huge donations from oil companies. Not gonna happen.
Try to solve the banking crisis and rein in Wall Street while most politicians accept huge donations from financial institutions. Again, not gonna happen.
The system must be reformed before we can attack specific issues.
The Only Solution.....!!!
There is only ONE way to bring this deceit to its knees.
Absolute Financial Transfer Meltdown.
Stop ALL Financial transactions via Electronic means, and the whole thing COLLAPSES............( stop ALL Internet Banking ).....Simple ?????
Ultimate goal will be acheived, and will not be difficult to do.
What cost ? ... How to? ... Who will ? ( I,M NO HACKER so find one !!! ) ( Just make sure he cant be bought for a higher bid ?)
Be assured that there are many out there who will fund this operation, but who are not out to Starve us all to death ....GO FIND THEM !!...Yes You !
I'm not for chaos. I don't see this being safe or helpful! Sorry!
like
Probably need a new site to be oriented that way. Must be tech people reading this who can put up a site with proposals for solutions. Eventually, without a Platform or at least at statement of principles (with analysis and justification), along with an intent to build organization with chapters across the country emphasizing education, direct action, and communication....we risk losing momentum. Need for leaders with decision to build the Movement crucial.
LIKE!
kd: i have been posting that we need to build nationwide movement, have been talking about this for years and so this is an incredible opportunity. I have a lot of organizing experience and there are probably plenty like me out there. Time's a wasting. This site, like you say, is mainly a complaint board. I left another website, Smirking Chimp because that's all they do there, complain although there are many good writers there. This space in interesting and there are many good and well-intentioned people here but talk is cheap. Hard to know what is going on out there.
Good but in what direction? Movement is good and it has spread nation wide ( people recognize that there is a problem) But nobody is doing anything to fix it that's why I posted this instead of just another theory or complaint. We know the problems not the solution.
OKAY, The objective is to build a Progressive Movement. I personally am not interested in attempting to be all inclusive as I regard it as naive and totally non-realistic. I understand the desire to want to do so but it is Utopian and, as you can tell from even this website, many people are totally opposed. The objective would be to build a Progressive Movement, draw attention to the movement, to educate people as to the why and wherefore of our Movement which I conceive as anti-Plutocracy (those who really control the govt) and pro-democratic.The theory as it goes is that as a Movement gets more powerful through demos, protests, education, etc. it attracts increasing support and eventually begins to influence the power structure, the media, etc. who are afraid of rebellion. They then begin to support reform. This is prototypical process of a real Movement whether it be for the Workers, Civil Rights, Women's Suffrage, Vietnam Anti-war Movement.
The Goal is to work for four or five Reforms: 1) Tax; 2) Electoral; 3) Financail; 4) Legislative with a 5th one being Jobs financed by Taxes
There are many sub-reforms under each of these major ones. This of course would be up for discussion and this proposal woulld only be a starting point.
The immediate concern is to begin to build the Movement by establishing chapters across the country. We would develop a Platform with Preamble that each chapter would have to agree to as a tentative step. Later, it can be reviewed again.
Each chapter would attract members who would pay annual dues (nominal, sliding scale). This would help to raise money essential to functioning. Also, it would mean that members have made a commitment and only dues paying members could vote. Voting process would be modified consensus (not 100%). Membership cards would carry platform. Immediate concern would be to educate members as to nature of objectives and also present an analysis of Plutocracy with information and resources of each of the major problems. We want all members to be informed. Those more informed, or oriented to leadership can opt to be facilitators. Everyone is to be respected no matter their contributions.
Chapters could function independently as long as they represent the platform. Each could organize its own demos or protests but also join in regular national or regional protests.
They have space limitations here, so that's it in essence. A bit messy but I am writing this fast.
What are the problems in ows? People have made their move, ows have been present over a month. What are the things that seem to be a conflict within the circle?
Everything... you can state any problem. It doesn't mean its going to have any effect. What I'm saying is there must be a mutually beneficial solution but first we need to figure out what that is and more importantly how to get there. The problem is talk... way too much which is why it sounds as if we're complaining. The least we can do is present a solution not just an end result of what we would like.
I understand.
here's the best analogy i can come up with...its like you guys are trying to fix a gas powered car in a world where there is no more gas.. and its not a diesel engine which can be converted to bio-diesel (wvo) ... THIS SYSTEM HAS RUN ITS COURSE
Welllllllllll I don't totally agree. I think there's still a way to benefit from the system for the masses. Throwing it away would cause violence and anger. I smell civil war if it does go this way.
don't let fear guide you my friend.. first look at me, this is my REAL name.. no one wants violence.. take 18 minutes watch this and get back to me.. the world is an open ended story..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mkRFCtl2MI&feature=player_embedded
And the only reason I dont post my name is because I am under contract and am not allowed to. I don't go back on my word even if I don't agree.
I understand what youre saying completely and promise to watch this buttttt and keep in mind I'm in the military and have been training in martial arts as long as I can remember. Violence is never the answer. I would rather be punched in the face if it gets my point across. Whats the point in fighting something that doesn't fight back and who looks worse?
i don't totally follow what you are saying with the last sentence? i kind of do.. and its great you are in the military and are open minded, because, we could all make this world better as soon as we all can realize its up to us.. its not anyone particular fault we are in this predicament.. we are all products of our environment.. which was designed initially in the best interest of the people...yet greedy people found loopholes.. therefore it is up to critical thinkers to keep the process of evolution going... i look forward to hearing back from you once you've watched
The SOLUTION has been laid out in front of all of us.. Peter Joseph the founder of Zeitgeist addressed OWS LA on saturday, unfortunately this concept is going over 99% of the people's head (sorry couldn't help it) ...do the due diligence people.. the time is NOW, NOW...in the sense that we can begin making traction toward a phased approach, this will take TIME
The declaration is here: nycga.cc/2011/09/30/declaration-of-the-occupation-of-new-york-city/
It is just that: A LOOONG list of complaints. Where is the solution? By solution I mean a way to solve problem!
Well, my best solution is to make sure we contact our elected representatives to demand repeal of Gramm-Leach-Bliley. I've already written Senator Schumer about it. He had his hands in that mess since it was brought to the floor, like 12 yrs ago.
If you have a little time, learn about the details here, http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL325E5EF5DAB7D072
That's good!! I think its good to discuss things also and hear others opinions on more proactive solutions. You are doing what more people should!
At least I believe, that this one thing is a huge big deal, and a really necessary, key demand. Its not a sexy subject, so its hard to get people fired-up about it. But its so essential to getting at the root of the problem.
I think most of us agree that deregulating Glass-Steagall was at the the heart of the crash.
Here's a possible solution:
I would suggest one the way to fix Congress is to change the systems of incentives. People go into politics for a few reasons: 1) they love their country and think they have a better solution, (2) they love power (3) they love money (4) because they had their condo's foreclosed like Joe Walsh etc..
So: 1) Link congressional pay to country performance as in:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/link-congressional-pay-to-performance/
And 2) Change the way powerful committee memberships are assigned.
I'm not sure how memberships are assigned, but I think currently these are assigned by seniority.
Instead, the People need to take back control of these assignments and hold committee members accountable when the nation does poorly. You might say, can't we just vote these poor performers out of power? Unfortunately, no, because they are voted in by some small congressional district for which they just happen to the most popular and maybe even the best candidate. The answer to this problem is not term limits because that politician may indeed be the best person for that district.
However, just because they are the best person in some small district, does not mean they are the best person for All of America, and when they are chairman of some committee, they have disproportionate influence on all Americans, not just those from their district.
We need to change congressional rules for electing committee members and chairperson to prevent failures from holding important and powerful positions. Perhaps this can be done by banning congressmen and senators from being committee members if they were at the helm when the country performs poorly.
I don't have the answer on how to achieve this. Perhaps some among you would be willing to debate the merits and propose solutions along this line.
This seems more plausible and may be met with less resistance but this would involve casting out people from a job which they may have done for years. I think the masses should be able to over rule something put into law rather then it be set in stone because one person says. I believe by doing away with current people in office we would be taking away there pursuit to happiness which is something we are all after. I think to ban people from there life's work would be immoral in that sense. If you did something people at your job didn't like would you think it was ok if you were banned?
If someone is bad at their job, and run the country to the ground, why should they be made a member of committee so that they can do the same thing again? We need accountability in politics.
Yes we are all in pursuit of happiness. Serial killers have a pursuit to happiness, which is killing people. Some people just need to be stopped even if it means we are going to make them unhappy.
Banning a politician from a committee is not banning her from her life's work. They can still be in congress. They are still doing their job. They are just are not allowed to carry a portfolio, and have the extended power that the voting public did not give them. The voting public does not vote directly on which senator or congressman belongs to which committee. I believe this is a power we should have, either via some rule, or direct participation.
Haha well you're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying we should put serial killers in office. The comparison of the mentally insane and perfectly normal healthy minded individuals is invalid. Pursuit of happiness is something which is pursued by everyone; even serial killers. Can you say that they don't have anything else they might enjoy which you and me may think is more "sane". Not to say that killing isn't insane. I agree with accountability. It is there its just not enforced. We have the right to bare arms for that reason(haha). Am i say go out and start shooting at the white house. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. But there are more current checks in place. Some of which are completely ignored maybe we can bring them back into light... no?
the plausible solution is a RESOURCE BASED ECONOMY.... what is the matter with everyone.. look it up, the Zeitgeist Movement..
That sounds nice in theory and may be something to look forward to in the long term but to prevent any more needless violence, because people will fight this, we need to move forward with what we have not backward.
RBE is forward!! please do the due diligence... seriously please.. if you would like i can forward you some links.. but this is absolutely forward thinking... obviously needs a phased approach though
No offense to this at all in any way at all. Systems like this have already existed in the past. We are already based on resources it just hard sometimes to think of capital as being one of those resources.
my friend... my friend.. nothing like this has ever taken place, a resource based economy has not been feasible until our present age with technology.. capital is NOT a resource. it is an intsrument. food is a resource, water is a resource, etc
Ehhhhhhhh I understand but no matter what you can't get rid of it. We've learned it grown up on it and have had a lot of positive results from it. There have been negative results from it but you can not ignore the benefits of having a set currency and trade value. Having a resource based economy would almost be no different. But it would have to be strictly regulated by higher authorities once again. I just don't see it being a solution.
if i give you a link would you please take 8 minutes to watch it.. there are several films one is 2.5 hours long which explains in depth.. this CURRENT SYSTEM IS ABSOLUTELY FLAWED...yes we have gotten great benefits from it, one being the birth of the modern concept of RBE.. it was within our free society that this concept was hatched by critical thinkers... people who are far more intelligent that me.. and im not exactly dull... please do me this favor watch this 8 minute video and get back to me... ok? TRUST ME ITS WORTH YOUR TIME
http://youtu.be/1SQqjTxI3vc
I will!! haha I just have a few other things going on i need to be able to focus
Good idea...but I truly believe that if we radically reform campaign finance rules and throw corporate money OUT of our political process once and for all....the rest follows. Smile everybody... it is the corporate control of our government that is causing all of our trouble and making all of our protesters so angry.
the problem is the SYSTEM ITSELF... a system based on debt will always have a class hierarchy therefore imbalance, therefore needless suffering while others sip on mai tai's ...PEOPLE PLEASE LISTEN.. for example.. im here in hawaii my life is great.. but im trying to help all of you.. all of us.. and it starts with awareness... im standing by
absolutely false!!! please do the due diligence.. if you like i can forward you some links. there is no way to fix a flawed system which has run its course.. its a matter of evolution.. i would be happy to forward some links
The point of the movement is not to make specific demands. The point of the movement is to demonstrate to the powers that be that they must stop paying lip service and make an honest attempt at economic reform or we'll find someone who will.
Besides, it's not like we could ever actually come to an agreement on what our demands would be. There's so much political diversity here. I'm an anachro-syndicalist and the guy over there might be a Ron Paul Libertarian; do you think we'd ever be able to agree on anything? Except, of course, that something must be done. That's why we're here.
I think if there's any one real demand we, as a movement have, it is, to borrow from the Tea Party: Don't tread on me!
True enough....but having some concrete aims would be wonderfully helpful. Right now the movement is demanding to be heard, and everyone is finally listening. If we have a clear demand then Obama can go to his next press conference and say, "We must radically reform our campaign finance rules and throw corporate money OUT of our political process once and for all" If he does that Congress is put on the spot to agree with him, or risk defying the protesters and then....the rest follows.
Welllllll they haven't done it thus far why would they start now. This is the problem. All they hear is complaints. There is nothing political about complaining. They are politicians and more then anything people. Maybe they don't know how to fix it. Or more importantly how we as the people would like it to be fixed. I'm not saying demands at all. More solutions then anything. Something in which we can present to somebody which would show a little organization other then a gaggle of people seeking revenge from money hungry people. Not politicians. People. That sounds hippocratic to me. Seeking vengeance on the wrong doings of others(we may have not done wrong but they have to us). Two wrongs do not make a right... At least establish a list of goals and work from there
For some reason Americans, and perhaps the world in general, have always had a bipolar stance on capitalism and socialism. I blame it on the cold war, where everyone was told that these where the only two viable options, and they needed to decide on one and fight to prevent the other from destroying the world. I think that old school mentality has long surpassed its useful livelihood. Socialism has failed, capitalism is failing, Much like how many feel we need a new third option in the political arena, I feel we need a new and viable third option in an economic model. Many people voice opposition to what they don’t like, This is great, I have grown up watching generations before me voice concerns and fight for what they thought was right (no matter how wrong it may or may not have been), and I have seen the new wave of political and social correctness that silenced a generation, while our rights were stripped away. To hear people finally voice out against the systems that have failed our generation is a breath of fresh air. But that is not nearly enough. Deconstructionist attitude does not build a better world it simply creates a vacuum where possibly worse conditions could arise. Deconstruction is only useful as a tool for reconstruction, and people need to consider what they want to construct. I personally feel that people need to abandon prior prejudices. And re-examine the practical application of past economic models. Capitalism and communism both have benefits as well as flaws; a merger of the two which takes the benefits of each to counteract the drawbacks of the other seems a much more sustainable and socially functional alternative than either of the original models. Socialism provides a basic level of existence for all yet limits productivity by limiting rewards, It has failed and is not an option for a future model. Further in most of its practical applications it has strongly lacked the necessary checks and balances needed to ensure the lack of corruption. Capitalism for all its greed and cut throat nature provided incentives which encouraged productivity so long as the system functioned with controls, yet provided little security. Beyond its lack of security for the lower classes it creates far too much incentive for corruption. It is currently failing and should not be used as a future model. I feel that a merger of the best points of both is the only truly sustainable model. Create a large government foundation of public service, building infrastructure, as well as production of food and resources. Allow the government to sell government produced commodities at limited profits. also allow private market to function simultaneously, when the private market falters, up the government production to provide jobs, when the private market recovers back off of government spending and rely on tax collection from the private market. This would create a system which allows for both the incentive created by a private market and the job security created by a socialized government work force. Furthermore regardless, if the private sector is failing the government will make money off of the commodities it produces from the influx of workforce flooded into the government sector, if the private sector flourishes the government profits from increased taxes. People would benefit from having the opportunity to secure high paying jobs in the private sector as well as the security of knowing they will always have a livable wage job if all else fails. The government would once again have leverage to control our country, by regulating markets through competitive wages, as well as competitive pricing. Obviously this would require additional checks and balances to be applied, to assure the government does not abuse this situation and result in a socialist state, I do believe however this could be accomplished in establishing a system of representatives for the free market sector which would have an equal vote with regard to economic concerns. I am not an expert on the subject of economics, I have a fair working knowledge, and I’m sure there are intricacies I am unaware of, yet, I believe the core of what I am saying has merit, If for nothing else other than instigating discussion and idea exchange.
I like how you mention this bipolar mentality we have about Capitalism and Socialism. These "isms" are just ideas constucted from propaganda. In Socialism they have the idea of equality by controling the wages of the economy. Capitalism holds capital as the holy grail to progress and prosperity. What anyone fails to mention is that productivity is composed of wages, capital, and RENT. We should try to put the emphasis on rent, which is the surplus not created by any person. Rent come from land and as far as I know, nobody in history has ever created land. Please read on if you are not familiar with economic rent.
The theory of economic rent has been around for some time, but land taxation has seldom been implemented throughout history. It is well known that the factors of production are composed of land, labor and capital. Land, in the economic sense, can be explained as anything with a productive capacity that has not been created by men or women, but has value created by the community. Labor is any human energy spent , whether by the mind or through brute force, that contributes to a means of production. Capital is mainly what is spent from savings for future production. Under the current system, mainly labor and capital are taxed, while the landed elite make out like bandits with the rents that are created by the community! It is no surprise that civilizations have suffered from vast inequalities since the founding of the first governments.
What we need to fight for is a redistribution of these economic rents for the sake of the people, while at the same time reducing the tax rates on labor and capital. These rents from land are the source of all wealth and are presently held by a small number of wealthy people who will speculate and slow there productive capacity in order to increase profits.
This demand goes out to the people of OWS! If there is one thing we need to change in order to promote equality, environmental protection and job creation through increased productive capacity, this is the solution we need. Please read about economic rent and land taxation in order to fully grasp the concept.
This is something proven in theory and not based on anyone's personal opinion or ideology. While we are divided on many things, it's time to come together with some real demands to benefit the majority of unrepresented individuals of the world. Lets show the top 1% that we know where their unearned wealth is coming from and that we know exactly what is needed in order to bring them back to the real world!
i thought the solution was to tax the rich 90% and to give every person born 500k to do with it whatever they want to?
Sacrifice the happiness of 1% for 99%, isnt that how democracy works?
No. Thats just idiotic.
That is a ridiculous goal and if that's what you want I'm sorry for you. And no everyone makes sacrifices not just 1%.
That sounds a bit jaded, don't be mean :) Why don't we just radically reform campaign finance rules and throw corporate money OUT of our political process once and for all....and the rest follows....imho
Of course if you take away the benefits of corporations profiting from this fiasco they probably will pull out on there own
I'm not trying to be mean. It will cause chaos. Imagine something you worked for all of your life just being thrown away. It won't happen. Maybe the pull which the corporation may have on our government should be changed but that's far from just throwing it away and not re-allocating it elsewhere. Its not like it wouldn't be useful.
Fair enough
Problem: You wrote: "As a people we elect a few to represent that of many and that inherently is flawed."
Proposed Solution: Not if the individual is unbound from his/her geographic location and made free to delegate their representation to the Congress person who best advocates for and votes in line with their beliefs. E.g., If my congressional district elects a tea party member to congress, I can remove the mathematical weight of my vote from him/her (like a voucher) and delegate it to a different congress person, say Barny Frank, instead. Question, why not just have the right to make votes in the congress yourself as an individual without delegating to a representative? Answer: because not everyone would have the time or inclination to give their attention to every hearing on every vote and not everyone would have the vocabulary to understand the legislation. OWS could prototype and alpha test this technique now (a.k.a. dogfood it) for its internal decision-making purposes now. First step is to establish the concept of non-anonymity here - to participate you must be a verified person/member. Let the hole-poking begin.
sorry for the silly comparison:p
Haha I like your style... The only problem with electing officials is: If i have 101 people and 52 of them like chocolate and the rest vanilla. They're then told vote for somebody to pick the flavor for the group well knowing that this person likes chocolate. Well the elected official is hanging around and a few vanilla heads say hey why not give vanilla a shot. He tries it and LOVES it and from then on he only chooses vanilla for people to eat even though the people who elected him thought he would always go chocolate. Welllll you may see some sort of problem. Peoples minds change. Whether it be due to selfish reasons or just change of taste. Issues need to be presented not once but multiple times to either the masses or elected officials to insure no foul play and that the people are represented to the best of his/her ability. How often has a politician came up to you and asked how do you feel about abortion or any matter? Probably none I'm assuming(not trying to sound mean sorry if i do) You brought up a good point though but there are inherent problems.
when the rep switches to vanilla, the voter-constituent who still prefers chocolate (having also given vanilla a try), switches to a different rep known to like chocolate. Voters are given choice. The office-holder wanting to maximize the weight of his/her vote via for the widest popularity, so you have much richer selections. For example, you might delegate the weight of your vote to a rep who is [pro-life, aniti-gun, pro-gay, anti-war, pro-universal health care].
But under the current system we have a bunch of people who like rum raisin!! I hate rum raisin personally you might like it but lets just say hypothetically that only the people in congress like rum raisin. They may have not liked rum raisin when they got in but it benefits them to say everyone will eat rum raisin(self profit? change of opinion? Trying to satisfy peers? who knows...) The system doesn't work because no matter what its the say of one person. Sure I can re-elect in 4 years but what would stop him or her from changing her mind? NOTHING and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. People do have time. Is there no way to put up a system in which people can vote on a nationwide intranet? Could we not split up the vote to accommodate everyone? Do we not already have that capability? The answer is yes. Of course people could still turn the right down. But why would you?
No-doubt the technology is getting secure enough to support people voting on a nationwide intranet (and it is obvious that is how registration and local elections need to be done). But, the "sausage-making" itself is too time-consuming and intricate and people are too busy. That is probably why there is always such low voter turnout. People would rather not read all of the voter materials in the Sample Ballot. All I can say on the rum raisin point is recall.
hi mike ,
got any spare dope ?