Forum Post: A True Status Update of America
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 9, 2011, 8:29 p.m. EST by WakeUp
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This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The US has developed a dangerous condition of which this board has come to epitomize. It is the belief that fundamental human rights extend to owning a home, being provided health care, and being given a job (to name a few). These beliefs are simply untrue because, among other reasons, they are based on a false assumption - we have the ability to provide these things to all people. The role of government, as the institution designated to organize our society, is to set up an environment where these things can be attained. Make no mistake, it is possible to come from virtually any background and make it to any point in society. This is the American dream. It is as attainable as ever.
Does everyone start on equal footing? No and it shouldn't be that way either. At some point or another, a wealthy family had to gain that wealth on the back of a hard working descendant. Now is not the time to point out that not only the wealthy work hard, I know and understand that. However, I also know if I end up wealthy that I will give my children every opportunity to succeed. Can you honestly say you will do any different? The hypocrisy promoted by people who feel they have been slighted is unbelievable.
Also, there is a lot of talk about corporations buying the government and stomping on the rights of individuals. I understand that campaign donors getting things in exchange for donations/support happens but lets choose your favorite scapegoat - wall street and big banks.
What is the biggest complaint against wall street? It caused the financial crisis. How exactly (if any of you got that far)? They created debt instruments called collateralized debt obligations (CDO) and insurance on CDOs called credit default swaps (CDS). The CDOs were falsely rated among the safest assets when in reality they were among the weakest. Why were they among the weakest? It is because they were constructed using the home loans of thousands of Americans who were unqualified for homes they purchased. Did wall street create these instruments? Yes. Did companys such as countrywide offer ridiculous financing options to those who couldn't afford them? Yes. Did anyone hold a gun to the heads of thousands and thousands of Americans that spent beyond their means and couldn't pay for their mortgages etc? NO. It was these and similar loans that created the opportunity for wall street to do what it did. Are the big banks innocent? No but they aren't alone regarding who is at fault and I'm quite confident that more than a few of you wouldn't need to look farther than your own mirror to find someone who is. It is called personal accountability and everyone seems ready to pass the buck in this regard.
Also understand - no one forced you to put your life savings in the market. My father kept most of his assets "out of play" earning a low return for years despite the insistence of his financial advisor to invest.
If you want to make complaints against wall street, here are the logical ones. Re-enact glass steagal. Commercial banks should not be subjected to a relatively risky investment banking arm. Regulate the industry in terms of preventing a "too big to fail" institution. At that point, companies who made irresponsible gambles would fail and provide a cautionary tale for those going forward.
Please see reason and don't be blinded by a self-created "woe is me" mindset. No one should claim that they were never given the opportunity to succeed - it is simply untrue in America, which is the heart of this country's true greatness.
Full disclosure - I am in my 20's with student loans to pay but I am not bitter. I chose my education and the cost. No one forced me.
True, "the role of government is to setup an environment where these things can be attained" -- home, etc -- and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to support a Presidential Candidate Committee at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
"It is called personal accountability"
I was hoping for social accountability
unfortunately the term social accountability is often hijacked to avoid personal responsibility
people are being forced into roll of having to juggling money
when they might rather be conducting scientific exploration or constructing a better society
Your first paragraph is false in fact. It is not, in fact, impossible that everybody have shelter, health care, and a job. In fact, many countries with less wealth per capita afford these rights to their citizens. This is the wealthiest country in the world. The question is not whether we can do something, it is what our priorities will be. In the last thirty years, this country has been told lie after lie by the powerful that the economic landscape of this country is somehow the result of a "natural" order of things. In fact, it has been the product of very deliberate decision-making by those with economic power to concentrate their power at the expense of the society as a whole.
We have now decided to choose other priorities, and, this being a democracy, that is our prerogative. These new priorities place economic equity at the top and the raw exercise of individual power for one's gain notwithstanding considerations of societal benefit somewhere lower.
You can join us or not. But these decisions have been made.
In which countries does this work well enough that we should bring it here?
I also did not mean it is impossible by any means. I clearly state it is not the birthright of anyone nor is it the government's responsibility to provide it. It is the birthright of every citizen to be given the opportunity to EARN these things.
well said.
Try to explain your sorry position to someone that did work his entire life only to have his retirement savings (pension) stolen from his account by the villains of Wall Street. I now your dad did not pass by this experience.
how was your pension stolen?
http://www.freedomworks.org/crisis
You think it's so easy, make a few changes and everything will be OK! Take into consideration that we are entering the Great Depression part II...now reformulate your thoughts.
I'm not saying it will make things perfect, those are just a few rational suggestions
Rationalize with the understanding that we are entering the Great Depression part II.
What is it that we are fighting for? The end of Capitalism? American communism? What is with all of the isms?
Let me tell you what I am fighting for. I am fighting for a global economy that is based on all of the natural resources of the planet. I am fighting for a true democracy that is detached from profit-seeking institutions. I am fighting for the principals that America was truly founded upon; not the principals that Michelle Bachman, John Boehner, or Barack Obama understand. I lump all current politicians into one category: evil. Lacking morals. Lacking conscience.
I understand our problems to be so immense that if a true progressive took office he would not muffle them, nor elongate their existence. I do not believe that Barack Obama is fighting for the populous.
I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
Viva la Resistance!
Project Earth: A Resource Based Economy Explained http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDhSgCsD_x8
Agreed, totally.
I understand you copy and paste this on all posts but why not take a moment to make it relevant? I didn't mention an "ism". How are politicians evil exactly? I often disagree with Obama but don't believe he is evil. What put you up on your high horse that your morality and principals are invincible?
Politicians are a pawn in the system which robbed America of its wealth. Politicians are a pawn in the system which is currently destroying the environment that we all live in.
I am on a high horse because I don't want to live in the fucked up world that these politicians force me into. Prove me wrong in a debate on economics and I'll jump on to whatever system you favor.
Don't deviate from the discussion about how you are ethically superior to all politicians. Following your logic, if a person currently runs for office and is elected he is evil. Just wondering, did he have to always be evil or did he become evil once he is elected?
I do not believe that every single politician has ill-intentions. I believe that partisan politics is an evil game, and therefore anyone involved is inherently evil. Take Bernie Sanders for example, great fucking guy!
Which system should we choose to replace a party-based system?
I'm not sure about that. I don't claim to hold all of the answers, just the right questions to ask. At the end of the day I believe that any true politician should be an independent, though.
I don't think it is right to claim all party-elected officials and the party system is evil without a viable replacement. If you can't think of a better system, don't call for the elimination of the current one - find a way to improve it.
"to tear down a factory or revolt against a government because it is a system is to attack effects rather than causes; and as long as the attack is upon effects only, no change is possible. The true system, the real system, is our present construction of systematic thought itself, rationality itself, and if a factory is torn down but the rationality which produced it is left standing, then that rationality will simply produce another factory. If a revolution destroys a systematic government, but the systematic pattern of thought that produced that government are left intact, then those patterns will repeat themselves in the succeeding government. There's so much talk about the system. And so little understanding."
I can't call the system evil because I can't tell you a 100% detailed plan of how to replace the system? Should I turn a blind eye to the hell America is about to go through, just because I as an individual can't formulate the system to replace it? The OWS movement shows that there is something very-fucking wrong with our system, should we remain quiet merely because we have yet to write a formal plan?
No I was alluding to something deeper. Re-read the quote (and I suggest the entire book - Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance). Think about why the system we currently have is in existence and what is wrong with it. It is not evil. If you think the gov't is responsible for the recession you have a lot to learn. Has it played its part? Yes. On a whole is it highly inefficient, falsely incentivized (short terms, campaign donor setup), full of political posturing? Yes. We need to work on solving these problems. The extremist claims you make are counterproductive and take us further from what should be the end goal - shaping the gov't so it can quickly and efficiently execute the views of the majority of the population.
My point of "dissolve government" is not intended to dissolve the current structure, just get rid of any politician who has been bought. I don't give a fuck who voted them in, and how long they have left on their term. They need to get the fuck out of our government.
After we have a new body of lawmakers, and a financial system that is not reliant upon the most complex Ponzi scheme known to man, then we can talk about restructuring the government.
The worst ponzi scheme is actually social security but that is a different matter. Again, look at the incentives. What does it mean to be bought? If a politician believes a corporation should be treated a certain way and the corporation agrees, they will donate to that person. If he is then elected based on those beliefs and votes accordingly has he been bought or does it follow a logical pattern. He believes in a favorable treatment of X cause -> those involved with X cause donate to him -> he is elected by his constituents for his beliefs -> he votes for X cause.
I'm sorry I just hate broad claims about X,Y, and Z with no back bone. Take for example the commenter above - "Try to explain your sorry position to someone that did work his entire life only to have his retirement savings (pension) stolen from his account by the villains of Wall Street." Nice tagline, now explain yourself sir - no response of course.
No. The worst Ponzi scheme is the Federal Reserve Board. Perhaps the worst domestic Ponzi scheme was social security, but don't discredit the Fed. You think too small, I think too big. Either way, nobody's perfect.
Fed isn't a ponzi scheme unless your referring to borrowing money to pay back our debt without any real chance of paying it off down the line - which then, yes, our entire gov't is a ponzi scheme
Borrowing money to pay back debt is Capitalism. Creating money that is not backed by anything tangible is a Ponzi scheme. So yes, our entire government is based on the world's most complicated Ponzi scheme; that's why we are occupying Wall Street.