Forum Post: A National General Assembly or Congress or Convention
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 11, 2011, 10:45 p.m. EST by ms3000
(253)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
We should use the local general assemblies to organize a national election to elect delegates to a national assembly or convention or congress. Whatever you call it, our power comes from democratic action only. They have the money, we have the people. Please come to the NYC GA to vote on an action plan to elect national representatives:
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/home/the-steps-to-non-violent-revolution
I think this is an excellent idea. What is the Occupy movement going to do when it is freezing outside? I am concerned it will lose momentum despite everyone's best intentions. I agree the general assemblies should elect delegates to a national general assembly and there put forward a platform and move forward as a political movement not just a protest movement. The two should be combined and start pressuring elected officials just like the Tea Party did. Once the movement gets direction on a national basis, the financial contributions will flow faster and we can start funding candidates and causes that are in line with the people's wishes as expressed in the general assemblies.
Please join our OWS working group at: https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
The Constitution is fine and we must restore lawful government--throw the impostors into FEMA camps for re-education. It is the abuse and ignoring of the Constitution that has us where we are.
Yeah, I don't know how many times I've heard this. We're going to FORCE them---people who could sell and buy you 100 times over and have the firepower behind them to boot. The Constitution gives you the means to correct the situation via an Article V Convention but you and your paranoid co-horts at the John Birch Society as well as Phyllis Schafly represent the status quo and wish to continue feeding from the scraps thrown to you by the powers that be.
you are a crazy person. FEMA re-education camps?
.."ms3000 1 points 11 hours ago we don't have a constitution designed for direct democracy so what you propose would require a constitutional convention.."........ Yes, i realize that 'ms300;... And the majority of voters are leaning towards getting that done. One of the BEST Documentaries on this very Subject which exposed the Facts of the Voting Systems corruption is: HBO's 'The Hacking of Democracy'.. when you see how easily our votes are manipulated by the Diablo Corp. Voting machines, you will want to begin a Bill in Congress to Change us to the Popular Vote w/ a receipt. Believe it. ( have a good Day)
if we can get that done, I would be behind it
Tell ya What MS, you let me know what you want to write, and after i get this latest Petition signed and sent.. i will help you , and my Web site Will Back you on a petition to get us a Popular Voting System.. (Marlow/ Editor, iamn1111@yahoo.com) Investors4Justice.net.
Doing Away with the Electoral College....and utilizing the Technology we have today.... by Going To the POPULAR VOTE... with Receipts for our Vote... will bring the Country Closer to Honorable Leadership...
.................. Period!
we don't have a constitution designed for direct democracy so what you propose would require a constitutional convention
You HAVE to remember that the Constitution of the United States dictates how the system of government operates. A while back a Continental Congress was held by many on the right. They believed that they had a LEGITIMATE body. They did not. it was in essence a private Convention. Your local, state, and federal governments are t he LEGALLY recognized bodies of power in the country. You can reign the latter two in with Constitutional Conventions(provisions in both state Constitutions as well as the Federal Constitution--Article V). See links below for more info: http://www.conconcon.org http://www.callaconvention.org http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NationalConstitutionalConvention06
My best advice is to consider running for local and state office first. Then when you get some experience, run for Congress.
The Gov't is no longer legit because its no longer owned by flesh and blood people . The Constitution very specifically gives us ( real people) the right to over throw in such a situation. I think it can be reasonably asserted that Congress and the WH are wholly owned subsidiaries of Global Corps. who are not beholden to the voters. Therefore we have in essence a Corporatist / fascist tyranny not a Republic anymore.
No, the Constitution tells you SPECIFICALLY how you go about correcting the shortcomings of government in a LEGAL manner. The Constitution doesn't provide for revolution. If you want that you should draft another Declaration of Independence and then wait for those knocks on your front door. ; )
It might come to the later friend. I personally do not think we have the political space anymore in this country to make the necessary changes we need. Fixing around the corners of this isn't going to work. I'm afraid, Citizens United finished that ability off for good.
corporations ... are not people local, state, and federal governments ... are not people
No, well who then comprises these entities? Robots?
They are comprised of people and as such represent the interests of groups of people with similar aims.
http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/an-appeal-to-support-the99percentdeclaration/
you know... another thing that we could start doing to help get people involved ... with more focus... Is to actually move to start drafting BILLS... think about it.. how are we going to boost the unemployment problem ?
I mentioned on another forum... what would you do if they turned over the reigns to you tomorrow ?... I think I would.. first look out into the crowd... look at the posters and solve those problems first... then I would worry about utopian stuff...
You're giving people 3 days to make arrangements and get to NYC?!?
This is a mistake. You're shutting out people by acting so fast.
hehe you can't argue truth... he's right
What we should end up doing is taking some of us who are downtrodden unemployed workers in the occupy movement not guided by greed but for their middle class friend and families to run for congress. Someone who is honest about crimes and mistakes in the past and honest about how they will act. We need change and need to vote for true people of change and as long as we keep letting the same candidates go in over and over and letting party candidates as the only two people in office we will lose this fight again and again. STOP VOTING PARTY LINES AND START VOTING FOR THE PEOPLE!!!!!
I'm with ya... ;)
Good stuff, but the Glass Steagall Act was from 1933, not 1932.
I think this is a very bad idea until we get other reforms in place. Right now, Corporations can donate unlimited funds to political campaigns and have freedom of speech. Do you honestly think they would allow us to rewrite the Constitution without trying to metagame it?
I think if we pressed for this now, it would be a massive media circus with us ending up with an even more unfair deal than we have currently.
We need to plan more carefully before putting further rights at risk.
I think it's the way to go with this. Think big or go home.
You're more than welcome to think that is the way to go. However, do NOT try and push people out of the movement. We are still growing and need EVERYONE. If you're gonna push out people who don't adhere to your personal ideology, then you've already lost and won't accomplish anything of worth.
Did you read the demands? Do you disagree?
Sorry, I confused your post with a different one I had seen earlier. I was just suggesting in a different thread that each city that has a protest should select one or two representatives to send to a constitutional congress meeting.
However, I wish they weren't doing it so soon. Right now, protests are still being organized. I would like to play a much bigger role, but this would mean that I'm out of time.
It is early on in the protests but the economy is collapsing as we speak. I don't know if the USA will make it to July 4th 2012.
We've got more time than that. Leading economists aren't expecting the dollar to collapse for at least a couple of years yet... probably in 3-5.
Which economists?
download the podcast from NPR that had the speaker from the Peters G Peterson Foundation where he talked about America's Deficits. I think this is the story here http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124460237
I think that a lot of it is wishful thinking. The bailouts are over. No more bubbles to support the massive debts throughout the world.
Yeah, my father was telling me that he thinks things are going to improve and that I should be starting to look at buying up some property... and I'm like, "Um.. dad, I think I'm just going to wait awhile on that."
It would be nice to know what to invest in. I missed my window for heavy metals.
I don't know what to invest in, outside of modes of production. If you have a skill or could learn a skill to produce something, it would be a way to "invest".
Outside of that, an investment would be helping to push this movement in the right direction. Honestly, I don't think we have any chance if we don't have huge reform in the near future.
I have given this some thought. I am not sure that this will be necessary. While this sounds attractive, it rapidly converts a big involved group into a small group that nobody knows very well who are representing them. You are exactly correct when you say our power comes from democratic action. That means our numbers. Their power comes from their money. Until their money is decoupled from the government we can't afford to give up our power
Vetting candidates and getting them known to the 99% well enough to trust better than the current guys is not a trivial exercise, and being able to trust them as much as you trust yourself, is frankly impossible. Until the robber puts down the gun, you have no chance.
If I am right about this, the99% won't trust you or even me, (and I trust me far more than I trust you), to give their proxy to commit them to some deal.on a package of major changes to our government that will last for a long time (but shorter than we would like).
When action takes place in which money (the gun in my analogy) is removed from the politicians (the robber's hand) then the whole game is changed and until then your organization is toothless. Then it is a collection of amateurs trying to parallel the government of the United States.
I think at the point that we get real election reform, with the money out of politics, We have a new system and we should work through and that because I think most of us still believe in a representative democratic constitutional form of government and that the current constitution is closer to what we really want than we could write, starting with a clean sheet of paper (that wouldn't precipitate a bloody civil war in this very polarized country).
I don't want to be a casualty in the Second Civil War. There is a lot of inflamed rhetoric flying around, stimulated by some very serious problems. Power is very intoxicating and Lord Acton's disease (Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely..) will undoubtedly infect many in our 99% ( I see it in too many of the posts already. We must resist that. It is the source of many of the problems we are complaining about. Out of the frying pan and into the fire? No thanks. .
There are a lot of weaknesses and threats in forming organizations. The TEA party identified many of the same issues. Money and organizers came in and hijacked it. Please be careful.
I think you are right although I think we can keep things loosely organized and still create some additional cohesion without any risk. I think a national general assembly is a good idea and can still be loosely organized. For example there could be a video link national general assembly meeting and link in all the american general assemblies and come up with a platform. If the national groups collectively want to install delegates that could be done and those groups could meet and report back to their assemblies for ratification. I am just brain storming.
I think that can be constructive because the instant feedback aids consensus building.
The new media makes a flatter organization work better.A spokesperson, doesn't assume as much authority as a representative. Flatter is better to keep ownership in the process.
You make some excellent points but the undirected mob is only good for violence, We need to stay on track and move towards non-violent goals. Just look at history. The mob in France wandered and wandered until one person rose to the top. We need to avoid a Napoleon and build democratic structures, Its is true that committees can be dangerous too (again look at France and Russia) but this movement will peter out if we do not follow a plan of action.
http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/an-appeal-to-support-the99percentdeclaration/
I believe the appropriate term for what I am suggesting is "asymmetric politics'' which is a non hierarchical organization developed as extension of the military's asymmetric warfare concept.
Clearly there are potential mob leaders among us. I believe I detect the presence of more enlightened ones as well. We have been, in fact, being led by that type of leader. It hasn't taken us to the desired result. I think we have given up or over delegated our power to them and we are having trouble getting it back.
I don;t think mobs or despots are the only choices or the only tactics. Sulfur will form amorphously or crystalline. Pure sulfur at room temperature, two different structural organizations.
An informed society with instant communication is capable of making instantaneous decisions and choices without a middleman or woman. This has never been possible before. A new paradigm. Napoleon need not apply.
Vigilance is still required.
brightonsage, I see all your points and concerns.. I believe.. and I think all I agree with...
but, I also do not see why the organization of the proposed document could be a threat?... maybe a threat to the 1%... just the fact that the document is getting prepared... and prepared in a professional and democratic way.. adds legitimacy and something for the movement to grasp onto... maybe jumping to elections so quickly might be pre-mature... but the movement does need some direction and boost... maybe make clear that this is being done... just in case we can not get Congress to act on Getting The Money Out of Politics.... It may really send the message that this is real...
just another quick thought ...what if we elaborate and focus on bringing in all the other Occupy cities to voice thier issues with and help form and fine tune the document.. and put off the actual organizing of electing Delegates a bit... May is long way away... and quick jumps for power can destroy this... let the potential delegates earn their election as opposed to campaigning for it... (wow I can't believe I just said that.. hehe) patience has served us so far... but the movement does need a message that this is not just some pep rally....
I am sorry to to use a western animal analogy but here goes. Geese fly is a V shape. There appears to be a leader at the point. The leader doesn't get any benefit of the drafting like all of the others do. So, if you watch for some time the leader changes just like in a bike racing peloton. That is one way of organizing.
Bob White quail spend a lot of time in a group called a covey, running along on the ground. They dart very quickly in straight line for a short distance through the rest of the covey, stand awhile outside the edge and then dart off in a different direction, mostly inside the perimeter with the last bit just outside. Watching an individual bird, you would conclude that the covey, as a whole, isn;t moving. You would be wrong. looking it it from a little distance you would see a blob or cloud shape very obviously moving in a direction, slowly but inexorably.toward an objective.
This movement is clearly more like the quail at this point. We are all expressing our frustration, listening to others, incorporating some rejecting others. Reordering our priorities in light of new interpretations of the evidence, but we are all moving jostling back and forth. But if we step back from time to time i think we will see consensus building about the real issues, the relative importance of each and difficulty of implementing the solutions and finally arrive a prioritization of actions and schedules that would optimally get the results we need. maybe we will get to a point where the whole flock (the100%) can all fly in a V shape with good leaders taking turns at the point. Hope so, because geese fly a lot faster than quail coveys run. But sometimes you have to run before you can fly.
http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/an-appeal-to-support-the99percentdeclaration/
who's Bob White?..... hehe just kidding...
brighton, yes that all makes sense... but at some point people need to recognize that they are flying... personally I think this whole thing is the most phenomenal thing that could ever happen... and I am very patient to sit back and watch it grow.... but I do believe that we are losing supporters through frustration... I have compiled many notes from here and other sites,,, I will try to put in my 2 cents about this in a bit...
or should I say... but at some point people need to recognize that they will fly...